Secular, Church, Muslim or Home School?

Aw you didn't use my witty thread title suggestion. But that's probably a good thing as it was made up on the spot.

Anyway, my own education went something like this:

* Primary school - secular for the most of it though we ''sung'' hymns in the morning. By ''sung'' I mean mime.
* Secondary school - secular.
* College - secular
* Uni - secular

From primary to secondary I also attended masjid for Islamic studies and Qur'an recitation classes. So I got the best of both worlds really. Most of my friends in school were non-muslim (they out numbered us muzzies, 15 to 1 in some of my classes...in primary school anyway) and all of my friends at masjid were muslims so I was able to interact with both ''worlds'' on the same day.

But part of that was down to the fact there wasn't an Islamic school at the time (when I was in primary and secondary). Of course things have changed since then, today there is an Islamic primary school 5 minutes away from my house and an Islamic secondary school about 40 minutes away.

My view on which school is the right one: it's up to you really, but if you want to judge them, base that decision on their percentage pass rates.

I don't think te percentage pass rate is enough to base a school being the best one on. What if the kids all turn out will 11 A*'s but they have deranged views (of course that depends on your personal view lol) and don't know much else than study study study and get good grades.

Yuck i'd rather a school that releases well balanced kids with a good educaton yes but also a healthy mind

Islamic (Muslim) School.

Why? Because I say so

But really, because I went to one and its the best thing my parents could have done for me, alhamdulillah

WassalamuAlaykum

This poll has poor choices. I refuse to vote until you add an Old Skool option.

Seriously, I can't really vote because I have never been home schooled, church schooled or Islamic schooled. Not enough experience.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ayesha Rana

I don't think te percentage pass rate is enough to base a school being the best one on. What if the kids all turn out will 11 A*'s but they have deranged views (of course that depends on your personal view lol) and don't know much else than study study study and get good grades.

Yuck i'd rather a school that releases well balanced kids with a good educaton yes but also a healthy mind

LOL. That'd be a very strange school then. My point was:if you are going to base the decision, base it on pass % rates rather than if it's muslim, secular etc. Of course, whatever you choose is upto you. No real right or wrong decision.

Hmmm.. It's a tie between "secular school" and "muslim school". It depends on the muslim and secular school in question, I can't generalize.

Muslim School ^^

format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab

LOL. That'd be a very strange school then. My point was:if you are going to base the decision, base it on pass % rates rather than if it's muslim, secular etc. Of course, whatever you choose is upto you. No real right or wrong decision.

lol i see where you are coming from now but yes then it's just personal opinion. I still wouldn't just look at grades though the teaching environment is probably more important to me. I guess it's just personal priorities.

I agree to an extent with Crayon maybe because i've moved school about lets see, 8 times. It really depends on the particular school in question. I think home schooling is an excellent idea, but it requires a lot of hard work and responsibility on behalf of the parents. I admire people who's kids are home schooled because they have to make that extra effort to give their kids a good social life.

In the UK i think the best bet would be iether home-schooling or a good Islamic school. If there is one with good standards. They are normally very expensive.

Wassalam

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

Home schooling. There's quite a few reasons why I'd opt for this, but the main would be that it is the method that has (or is likely to have) the least amount of fitnah for a child to grow up with.

Very good lol couldn't agree more.

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

Home schooling. There's quite a few reasons why I'd opt for this, but the main would be that it is the method that has (or is likely to have) the least amount of fitnah for a child to grow up with.

I disagree there, akhi!

I think that, when a child is taught in a school with other people, they have the chance to learn tolerance, respect, and no doubt socialising skills. Fitnah is everywhere, even if the child does not go to a school, fitnah will be found elsewhere. I'll take what you said with "least amount of fitnah", that is an advantage of it, but too many disadvantages to counteract that in my opinion.

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

but I don't understand why you assume that tolerance and respect wouldn't be learnt? If anything, I'd say you learn less tolerance and respect being in school.

If you are in school, you are surrounded by people of different faiths, backgrounds, attitudes, abilitys, and over time you are able to tolerate it more and more, to the point where you'll just think [for example, for people with different faiths] "OK, he can do what he wants."
Whereas if someone was home-schooled, ofcourse if they go out, they will meet people with differences, and tolerance is able to grow that way, but in school, you learn, talk, discuss, spend years of life in the midst of those people, and the attitude of tolerance is able to flourish more vastly, I think.

School children are hardly the epitomy of good manners.

You can't stereotype all schoolchildren like that, bro'. You will find that some schoolchildren develop a tolerance, a respect, and others are at a point where they have learnt nothing. The point I'm trying to make is, though, that children are more likely, and have a bigger chance, to develop tolerance and respect for fellow human beings.

There is no way that other school kids will have good habits, not with the negative influences that are present in this day and age. If your kid is around people with bad habits, then those bad habits will rub off on him too.

Not neccessarily. Bad people can be avoided, tolerated, but at the same time, not given a great deal of thought about, to the point where they affect your actions.

brothers and sisters,

O You who believe, guard yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones.
Surah at Tahrim, ayat 6

One of the fundemental duties of a muslim is raising the next generation to be upon the deen of islam and nothing else, so choosing how to educate children is extremely important.

I want to say i am not saying others have intentionally done wrong, either those who are parents themselves or the parents of those reading this post in their choice of school, but too often people are ignorant on the allowable in this matter and go by default of sending their children to the local state school.

So how do we guard our families from the fires of hell?

What measures can we take to prevent them falling into bad habits and bad friendships, the friendships that will see them raised amongst their kuffar friends on the day of judgement as it is authentically reported that Rasoolullah (saws) said that we need to beware our friends as we will be raised with them.

So what is the best way to educate our children?

to answer this question we must realise that education is a process, a method of putting x in at one end, and through the process getting y out at the end.

so what is the aim of this process? what is x and what is y?

x are young children, y are adults conforming to a certain set of ideas and thoughts with certain knowledge at the end.

This was the reason the modern education system was invented by Frederick 'the Great' of prussia who wanted his society to be strictly regimented like his uber disciplined armed forces, so he set his best thinkers to the task and they came up with modern secular schooling!

ranks and rows just like regiments, discipline, certain drills (called lessons in schools) to produce a strictly regimented society.

This was radical thinking at the time but has come to be accepted by all as the model to be used in the west, and hence by the rest of the world which apes the west, following them into the lizard hole, as rasoolullah (saws) warned us.

You have to understand if you put your children into such a system they are not only taught english and maths and geography but are also taught certain secular ideals, and perhaps as importantly a way of thinking, it not only teaches you 'what' to think but 'how' to think.

This is true of every education system, not just the western one but we should be aware of this fact before making a decision on where to send our most precious posessions in this life.

I don't doubt that some good muslims come out of this system, their imaan intact but we all know many more who don't, horror stories not just of kids committing zina but also kufr akbar in their thoughts and actions.

In islam our system is geared up to look after the whole of society, that is why although most people could have friends of the opposite gender and not fall into zina, still it is forbidden for the ones that will.

Which brings us to another point, is it allowable according to the teachings of shariah to mix with the opposite gender for the purposes of dunya based education? Seriously, we all know free mixing is forbidden but it is really a good idea to send younger brothers and sisters with their bodies surging with hormones into an environment where zina is the norm?

So knowing the purpose of the education process, what is the outcome being aimed at by the kuffar and muslims in the various education systems on offer today?

In the secular education system it is clearly about raising another set of citizens, worker bees for the next generation. teaching you to think like them, remember an education process not only teaches you what to think it teaches you how to think.

Western civilisation needs people to be a certain way to continue and propegate its values, just like the islamic one. which way do you think most muslim kids will turn out if they go through such a system?

So it is about instilling certain ideas into peoples heads, over seen by teachers who for the most part have also been through this process and share many of the same ideas.

Church schools though often not mixed in gender have clear and stated aim of raising children to be believers in the teachings of that chuch, but other than this differ little from state secular and also instill many of the same ideas.

Muslim schools, especially those who accept state funding have to sign up to instill many of these same ideas just like church schools, though once again parents prefer them for the lack of mixing and the attempt to instill some religious teachings in the small portion of the day devoted to it.

They are also it seems limited in their thinking to using the same methods used and invented centuries ago by frederick in prussia and with obviously many of the same results therefore.

How much do these teaching techniques have to do with classical teachings, more free-form teaching given by Rasoolullah (saws) and the sahabah (ra)?

Once again this method of teaching gives not only an idea on what to think but also how to think, and it is starkly different from that of the western model of education (and also most of the madrassa's who also teach by rote learning)

So what are our aims, what is the y we are trying to get from the x in our childrens education?

is it acheiving certain exam grades, to work in certain careers deemed desireable?

if that is your aim for your children, maybe you should look at exam results for the school and make your choice based upon that and the attitudes of your children.

but if your aim is nothing less than the highest levels of jannah then perhaps you need to look a little deeper and as a muslim community when we set up our schools we should look a little deeper and stop immitating the kuffar in this most important matter of education.

I have chosen home education for my own children precisely because it fulfils the islamic needs of a child and family far better than anything else on offer, the 'islamic' schools i don't rate too well, though they are better than secular or church schools.

It seems so obviously wrong to me to send my children, my beloved little ones who i hope one day to enter jannah to spend their formative years, the time they are most vulnerable and suspectable to unislamic as well as islamic ideas to spend most of the waking day to be taught by people in a system which doesnt share my aims or objectives, hoping that an hour or two of Quran lessons in an evening will undo the swearing, fornication, pornography, music and other filth they will pick up during the day.

Finally the argument that home schooled children are less socially developed is really a non starter, home schooled children i have met are the most socially developed, not stunted in their development due to spending time only with one age group and being more than willing to debate and discuss with all age groups.

AssalamuAlaykum

Just want to say that I know of some who were home-schooled. They were cut of from their peers, felt isolated and didnt have as good a chance as others to socialise and develop the required social skills to get by in life.

I think home-schooling would be an experience though.

WassalamuAlaykum

format_quote Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud

AssalamuAlaykum

Just want to say that I know of some who were home-schooled. They were cut of from their peers, felt isolated and didnt have as good a chance as others to socialise and develop the required social skills to get by in life.

I think home-schooling would be an experience though.

WassalamuAlaykum

amatul wadud,

perhaps you and i are having different experiences of those who are home schooled, most home schooled kids i have met are the most well adjusted, most sociable kids i have come across precisely because they were not put into the state school system.

they learn to develop at their own pace socially, not forced to sink or swim like most kids, and learn to socialise with all different ages from small kids to adults because they are not placed in a false age group system from a young age like everyone else.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud_uk

amatul wadud,

perhaps you and i are having different experiences of those who are home schooled, most home schooled kids i have met are the most well adjusted, most sociable kids i have come across precisely because they were not put into the state school system.

they learn to develop at their own pace socially, not forced to sink or swim like most kids, and learn to socialise with all different ages from small kids to adults because they are not placed in a false age group system from a young age like everyone else.

Allahu A'lam.

This thread might be helpful to you then insha'Allah. Home schooling does actually seem quite appealing after reading through it.

http://ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192377

WassalamuAlaykum

Are we just discussing secular subjects here? Or would we prefer to home school our children for all secular and Islamic subjects?

I'd love to homeschool my children, but I'd also like to hear from parents who are already doing it. How do they manage with all the other things they have to do? Work, chores etc?