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So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

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    So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out (OP)


    Salaam

    Fathers day has passed. Thought this was sharp comment piece on the state of fatherhood in the UK.

    So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    By the end of his or her childhood, a British boy or girl is much more likely to have a TV set in the bedroom than a father at home.

    Our 45-year national war against traditional family life has been so successful that almost 50% of 15-year-olds no longer live with both their parents. At the same time we have indulged our neglected and abandoned young with electronics, so that 79% of children aged between 5 and 16 have bedroom TVs.

    And as we soppily mark ‘Father’s Day’ with cards, socks, sentimentality and meals out, we should remember that in almost all cases the absent parent is the father.

    There is no doubt about the facts here. Let me list some of them. The cost of our wild, unprecedented national experiment in fatherlessness is now £49 billion each year, more than the defence budget. This figure, currently costing each taxpayer £1,541 per year, is rising all the time, and has gone up by almost a quarter since 2009.

    The money partly goes on handouts and housing which an old-fashioned family with a working father would not have needed. Partly it goes on trying to cope with the crime, disorder, truancy, educational failure, physical and mental illness and general misery which are so much more common among the fatherless than in those from stable homes.

    And there is more to come. One in three marriages ends in divorce, while many who would once have married never even bother. Roughly 300,000 families of all kinds separate every year. There are now three million children growing up in fatherless homes. Another 58 fatherless families are launched every day. And be in no doubt that it is the fathers who are, overwhelmingly, absent in these new-style modern households. Only 8% of single-parent homes are headed by a lone father.

    Four in ten children being brought up by their mothers – nearly 1.2 million - have no contact with their fathers at all.

    Another 67,000 (In England alone) dwell in the organised despair and neglect which are cruelly misnamed ‘care’.

    In the last 40 years the proportion of adults who are married has sunk from 70% to fewer than half. The number of single adults has hugely increased (up 50%). A quarter of a million people each year spend Christmas alone. One in six adults now cohabits, compared to one in 50 in the 1960s. Cohabiting households, which have doubled in number since 1996, are the fastest-growing type of family arrangement in the United Kingdom.

    By 2015, there will be two million lone parents (up 120,000 since 2010); more than 24% of children will be in lone-parent households.

    It matters. Young people from fractured homes are statistically twice as likely to have behaviour problems as those from stable households. They are more likely to be depressed, to abuse drugs or alcohol, to do badly at school, and end up living in relative poverty.

    Girls with absent fathers (according to studies in the USA and New Zealand) have teenage pregnancy rates seven or eight times as high as those whose fathers have stayed in meaningful touch with them.

    By contrast, the link between marriage and good health is so strong that one study showed the health gain achieved by marrying was as great as that received from giving up smoking.

    In all these dismal statistics of marriage decline and failure, the United Kingdom is one of the worst afflicted among advanced nations. And in many of the poorest and most desolate parts of the country, the problem is concentrated into certain areas where fathers in the home are an endangered species.

    From Gosport in Hampshire, to Cardiff, Liverpool, Easington in County Durham, Inner London, Bristol, Birmingham and Sheffield, there are whole city wards where at least 60% of the households are headed by a lone parent.

    And it is in such circumstances that a procession of serial boyfriends, a type of domestic arrangement closely associated with physical and sexual abuse of children, is most likely to exist.

    This great fleet of hard truths is known in general to those who govern the country, and in hard detail to millions who suffer from their consequences.

    How, as a country and a people can we manage to be so indifferent to them, when we claim to set fatherhood and fathers at the centre of our culture? The fundamental prayer of the Christian church begins with the words ‘Our Father’. Americans speak of their ‘founding fathers’. The father has since human society began been protector, provider, source of authority, bound by honour and fidelity to defend his hearth.

    If he is gone, who takes his place ? Of all people, D.H. Lawrence, author of Lady Chatterley’s Lover, wrote of a man and his wife as ‘a king and queen with one or two subjects and a few square yards of territory of their own…true freedom because it is a true fulfilment for man, woman and children.’

    But he warned of a great danger if marriage, which makes fatherhood what it is, fell. ‘Break it, and you will have to go back to the overwhelming dominance of the State, which existed before the Christian era’.

    And now we see his prophecy fulfilled. The state spends billions, and intervenes incessantly, to try to replace the lost force of fatherhood, and it fails.

    I owe most of the facts above to the Centre for Social Justice, which on Friday published its full report into what it calls ‘Fractured Families’.

    The CSJ is very close to the Tory party, to the government and to Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary. So it is startling to find that the report is coldly savage in its dismissal of the Cameron government’s efforts to fix this problem.

    ‘Conservatives say they would have been more radical on family policy had it not been for their Liberal Democrat colleagues, but even those commitments made in the Programme for Government have been ignored so far.

    ‘So for all of the promises the Conservatives made in Opposition, for all of the gimmick giveaways politicians have unveiled for middle-class families, and for all of the safe ‘families come in all shapes and sizes’ rhetoric ministers have used for decades, hardly anything has been done to resist the tsunami of family breakdown battering the United Kingdom’.

    The authors continue: ‘Saying that family form is irrelevant is inaccurate and ultimately counter-productive…’ This is true. Someone ought to speak up for marriage. But is it entirely true to say that ‘Backing commitment and setting a goal of reducing instability does not equate to criticising or stigmatising lone parents.’? Doesn’t approval of the one inevitably stigmatise the other? And if you aren’t prepared to do that, will you get anywhere?

    They also assert that ‘marriage is not a right-wing obsession’, though, speaking as a right-winger I rather think it is. It certainly isn’t a left-wing priority. They argue : ‘People throughout society want to marry, but the cultural and financial barriersfaced by those in the poorest communities thwart their aspirations’.

    It is certainly true that some benefits actively discourage couples from being or staying married.

    But it is the ‘cultural’ barriers I want to talk about here. Anyone who dares to discuss this subject is quickly accused of ‘hating’ or wishing to persecute ‘single mothers’. Any article on the subject is supposed (maybe it is an EU regulation?) to contain a disclaimer saying that many single mothers do a great job.

    Well, I neither hate single mothers nor wish to persecute them, and I am perfectly prepared to believe that many of them do a great job. But it isn’t the point. The main problem with single mothers is that they are acting rationally, in a society which actively encourages them with money and approval. Who can blame them?

    There is a lot of piety about this. Suggest that anyone deliberately gets pregnant (or rather, in this age of morning-after pills and abortion on demand, deliberately stays pregnant) to get a house and a handout, and you are angrily dismissed as some kind of snobbish hate-figure.

    Well, mightn’t it be true? As far as I know, nobody has ever researched the motives of the young women who accept this sparse arrangement. I wish they would. But is it unreasonable to suggest that if you reward certain types of behaviour with money and housing, and with social approval, then that behaviour will increase?

    It’s not just me. Adele Adkins once recalled ‘The ambition at my state school was to get pregnant and sponge off the Government’, adding: ‘That ain’t cool.’ Perhaps successful singing stars can get away with saying what others only think.

    I don’t myself see that it is a particularly harsh view to hold. A baby is a wonderful thing, and many young women long to be mothers, and good luck to them. Many modern males are a pretty unattractive proposition, so why marry one, if the state will give you a home and an income on your own?

    Meanwhile men have learned enough about the divorce courts to know that marriage is a big risk. If it goes wrong, they are the ones who have to move out, and yet they will still have to pay.

    Why not take advantage of the fact that the state - which once demanded the father’s name when any baby was registered, so he could be made to pay for his child - now happily allows us to leave this space blank?

    My guess is that doing anything really radical about this scares all politicians too much. For the War on Fatherhood is protected by a great taboo.

    In every family, every workplace, every school, every pub, every weekend football or cricket team, every political party, every church congregation, there are now large numbers of people who signed up for the Great Cultural and Moral Revolution which was launched in the 1960s and swept through the land like a mighty rushing wind in the 1970s.

    The fiery heart of this was the Divorce Law Reform Act of 1969. This change was very popular. It is interesting to note that, just before it began its way through Parliament, Engelbert Humperdinck’s hymn for would-be divorcees, ‘Release Me’, pushed the Beatles off the top of the music charts for weeks on end.

    The new law pretty much embodied the song’s plea ‘Please release me, let me go/For I don't love you any more/To waste our lives would be a sin/Release me and let me love again.’

    Portrayed at the time as a kindness to those trapped in loveless marriages, the new law made it much easier to end a troubled union than to fight to save it.

    And once this had become general, marriage changed with amazing speed from a lifelong commitment into a lifestyle choice. And from a lifestyle choice it changed into a risky and often inconvenient contract. Divorce wasn’t shameful or embarrassing any more. The country was littered with male divorcees complaining about the division of the property and the child support payments.

    Men began to calculate that marriage wasn’t worth it. And the Pill and easy abortion (other parts of the 1960s revolution) put an end to shotgun weddings.

    Who, in such a society, could condemn the pregnant teenager without hypocrisy? Hardly anyone, especially rackety politicians and flexible churchmen. The middle classes had abandoned lifelong marriage with a sigh of relief. The aristocracy had never cared for it much. Even the Royal Family was riddled with divorce.

    The housing-estate poor were simply following the same moral code as those who posed as their betters, and weren’t actually better at all. And the adults of the era have all had a lot of fun as a result. But everyone, throughout this great period of release and revolt, forgot one small thing. What was to become of the children?

    Now we are finding out. And a generation which has never known fathers, or family life, or fidelity or constancy, is now busy begetting children of its own. What will become of them? How will boys who have never seen a father learn to be fathers?

    I’d have a moral panic at this stage, if I thought it would do any good. But perhaps it will be the victims of this selfish generation, our children and grandchildren, who – having suffered its effects - will re-establish stable family life in our country.

    **A Hostile contributor complains about 'a distinct lack of citations' in thjis article. Apart from the fact that newspaper articles are not normally footnoted, the piece clearly states:

    "I owe most of the facts above to the Centre for Social Justice, which on Friday published its full report into what it calls ‘Fractured Families’."

    This document is fully footnoted and can be found here :

    http://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/UserStorage/pdf/Pdf%20reports/CSJ_Fractured

    http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

  2. #61
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

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    1623807SaladinQuoteIfyouwanttodestroyany 1 - So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    Salaam

    format_quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    Oh! I am seeking to improve myself Don't you worry. Not wallowing in self pity period In fact, I am able to move on with the new changes and unlike other people will not kill myself or cannot handle the new social change I can form a family myself without been married or getting marriage and I don't need to play the husband role to feel happy. Sure I would like to get married but I also play smart! I will see if there is a wife out there for me and if there isn't then it is not the end of the world. I will have a child on my own already (as I am searching for a wife) that I will raise with or without getting married and what better reward in the afterlife than taking care of an orphan child. Who knows..maybe he does not want me to get married after we formed a brotherly bond and so I wouldn't.

    For me, the biggest priority revolve around the child I will adopt who I will raise well (Insha'Allah) and make him into a good merit adult and that to me is enough reward as it is, whether I am in an institutional marriage or not or whether in the future society can have children without men or not it is irrelevant to me. My focus is what I will bring into the table myself and how I do it in manners that pleases Allah alone and that is the ultimate success.
    You got it right at the first part but then you went the wrong direction, what your suggesting is not the Islamic way of doing things.

    Come on bro your sounding like a male version of a feminist.
    Last edited by سيف الله; 10-14-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    Greetings and peace be with you junon;

    format_quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Salaam

    How to destroy a faith, a nation, a people? You begin by destroying the family.
    Sadly that is very true. In the UK women became almost an outcast if they had a child out of wedlock until around the 1950's. Then the contraceptive pill came along, this increased the temptation to have sex out of marriage; because there was less chance of getting found out through an unwanted pregnancy.

    Once one generation has tasted this freedom, it becomes more acceptable in the following generations. First faith is destroyed because all faiths recognise the importance of marriage, once people walk away from their faith, then marriage and society are destroyed.

    In the spirit of praying for faith and Marriage.

    Eric
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    1623807SaladinQuoteIfyouwanttodestroyany 1 - So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out
    A very wise quote. And one that makes me worry about what my children will have to face when they grow older. Why some people seem to be set on their goals to push their values on other is beyond me. Specially when the damages to families are so clearly visible.
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Salaam



    You got it right at the first part but then you went the wrong direction, what your suggesting is not the Islamic way of doing things.

    Come on bro your sounding like a male version of a feminist.
    But I love children I really do. I love playing the role of a guardian and I am not getting younger. If I wait way longer I will not even have the energy for that. There is no guarantee I will even find a good wife or last long in marriage or not have a woman who will become feminist in the future. If I adopt now one I can at least focus on having that and take my time to finding one but at least I would have a child in my life. How is that a feminist? Like a woman I have a biological clock ticking against me..but this is not what is between my legs nope...the biological clock is called energy and desire and I am feeling it is sipping away if I do not do action soon.
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    I think what Junon meant by "male version of a feminist." (malenist???) is that you sometimes sound a bit extreme. Just like feminists sounds like they are power hungry woman who say that all males are rapists just because they are males.

    You often say things that make it sound as if you believe all women are manipulative and evil and that we hate men. I am not saying some women cannot be like that. But most of us are far from that.
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by Mandy View Post
    I think what Junon meant by "male version of a feminist." (malenist???) is that you sometimes sound a bit extreme. Just like feminists sounds like they are power hungry woman who say that all males are rapists just because they are males.

    You often say things that make it sound as if you believe all women are manipulative and evil and that we hate men. I am not saying some women cannot be like that. But most of us are far from that.
    Sister, I am generalizing and that is what that is and it applies to only women who are with those traits. Any woman who don't fall in that category should not be offended or care because it is does not apply to them. But if you have noticed...I have not seen a rally or complain in the entire Earth when society bashes men or boys or generalize men or boys but the second something reverses happen then the above ^ comes in effect. Well...as long as there are generalization for one gender and attack in one gender...I have the right to generalize in the opposite direction and not necessarily attack but defend against such attack. I am not going to be shamed into expressing my feelings toward those evil women who you mentioned are causing a problem. If you have noticed..I am not targeting a Muslima who obeys Allah and his prophets and submit to Allah and read qura'an and perform the sunnah and who is good to her husband. If you have noticed I am targeting only the people who have earned the X on their forehead.

    Sister why are you not upset when there are rallys with men wearing a shirt that says, "Men Are Trash"?

    I am surprised with that. You see.....there are no support system for boys and men. There is none. It will take a man to talk about men's right and issues and I am been forced into that corner. So I will speak out. Whether I am labeled under a title, I will speak out and as long as there are hate and attack toward men and boys and we are been grouped under the evil men just because we are men...I will speak out.
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    Sister, I am generalizing and that is what that is and it applies to only women who are with those traits. Any woman who don't fall in that category should not be offended or care because it is does not apply to them. But if you have noticed...I have not seen a rally or complain in the entire Earth when society bashes men or boys or generalize men or boys but the second something reverses happen then the above ^ comes in effect. Well...as long as there are generalization for one gender and attack in one gender...I have the right to generalize in the opposite direction and not necessarily attack but defend against such attack. I am not going to be shamed into expressing my feelings toward those evil women who you mentioned are causing a problem. If you have noticed..I am not targeting a Muslima who obeys Allah and his prophets and submit to Allah and read qura'an and perform the sunnah and who is good to her husband. If you have noticed I am targeting only the people who have earned the X on their forehead.

    Sister why are you not upset when there are rallys with men wearing a shirt that says, "Men Are Trash"?

    I am surprised with that. You see.....there are no support system for boys and men. There is none. It will take a man to talk about men's right and issues and I am been forced into that corner. So I will speak out. Whether I am labeled under a title, I will speak out and as long as there are hate and attack toward men and boys and we are been grouped under the evil men just because we are men...I will speak out.
    You do realize you are basically the Male version of what you despise. All this ranting about women attacking men when you are just the flipside of the coin the Male version of feminism meninism or whatever its called

    This isn't healthy bro let it go
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    So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    “Allah gave you a gift of 86,000 seconds today, have you used one to say ‘Alhamdulilah"
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    Sister why are you not upset when there are rallys with men wearing a shirt that says, "Men Are Trash"?
    I would be very upset about such a rally. Just as I am very upset about rallies of women who protest because I am supposedly an oppressed woman since I wear hijab and try to be the best muslima I can. (yes I know there are such misguided people). But fortunately, even if those people are very vocal and visible, there are not many of them.

    What I mean is that the actions you are describing are from a fringe group, but you make them sound like the norm. And your comments are just as extremist as the ones you denounce.


    I do not want to offend you, but I am a mother and I have 3 sons. I work very hard to educate them and make sure they learn all about islam and grow up to be good strong muslim men. I love my sons and would do anything for them. So hearing you say that all women just want to destroy boys and keep them from being happy and grow in the men they should be, it simply hurts me very much.
    Last edited by Mandy; 10-17-2018 at 12:29 PM.
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    Salaam

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you junon;



    Sadly that is very true. In the UK women became almost an outcast if they had a child out of wedlock until around the 1950's. Then the contraceptive pill came along, this increased the temptation to have sex out of marriage; because there was less chance of getting found out through an unwanted pregnancy.

    Once one generation has tasted this freedom, it becomes more acceptable in the following generations. First faith is destroyed because all faiths recognise the importance of marriage, once people walk away from their faith, then marriage and society are destroyed.

    In the spirit of praying for faith and Marriage.

    Eric
    Yes, its one of the worst self inflicted wounds Ive ever seen a society do to itself.

    Fake families are dyscivilizational

    The family is the building block of civilization, particularly the Western form of civilization. That is why the increasing percentage of illegitimate births across the West is such a devastating indicator of civilizational decline.

    An increasing number of births happen outside of marriage, signaling cultural and economic shifts that are here to stay, according to a new report from the United Nations.

    Forty percent of all births in the U.S. now occur outside of wedlock, up from 10 percent in 1970, according to an annual report released on Wednesday by the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), the largest international provider of sexual and reproductive health services. That number is even higher in the European Union, where 60 percent of births occur outside of marriage.

    The EU likely sees more births out of wedlock because many member countries have welfare systems that support gender-balanced child care, said Michael Hermann, UNFPA's senior adviser on economics and demography, in an interview. Public health care systems, paid paternal leave, early education programs and tax incentives give unwed parents support beyond what a partner can provide.

    The data show such births in the U.S. and EU are predominantly to unmarried couples living together rather than to single mothers, the report says. The data suggest that societal and religious norms about marriage, childbearing and women in the workforce have changed, said Kelly Jones, the director for the Center on the Economics of Reproductive Health at the Institute for Women’s Policy Research.

    Jones also noted that the rise in births outside of marriage is closely correlated to delays in childbearing. “Women are claiming their ground professionally,” she said. “Delaying motherhood is a rational decision when you consider the impact it can have on your career, and that’s contributing to this trend.”

    The average age an American woman has her first child is now 27, up from 22 in 1970. As the marriage rate has fallen in the U.S.—and those who do tie the knot do so later in life—the number of adults in cohabiting relationships has steadily risen. This shift is most evident among those under age 35, who represent half of all cohabiting couples.

    The traditional progression of Western life “has been reversed,” said John Santelli, a professor in population, family health and pediatrics at Columbia’s Mailman School of Public Health. “Cohabiting partners are having children before getting married. That’s a long-term trend across developing nations.”
    This is a direct consequence of the de-Christianization of the West over the last 120 years. As I have repeatedly pointed out, you cannot remove ANY of the three pillars of Western civilization from your society and expect it to survive intact. It will not.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by Mandy View Post
    I would be very upset about such a rally. Just as I am very upset about rallies of women who protest because I am supposedly an oppressed woman since I wear hijab and try to be the best muslima I can. (yes I know there are such misguided people). But fortunately, even if those people are very vocal and visible, there are not many of them.

    What I mean is that the actions you are describing are from a fringe group, but you make them sound like the norm. And your comments are just as extremist as the ones you denounce.


    I do not want to offend you, but I am a mother and I have 3 sons. I work very hard to educate them and make sure they learn all about islam and grow up to be good strong muslim men. I love my sons and would do anything for them. So hearing you say that all women just want to destroy boys and keep them from being happy and grow in the men they should be, it simply hurts me very much.
    Apology sister if I offended you. I respect Muslima sisters as if they are my own sisters and if she is a mother as if she is my own mother. I do not want to even annoy a practicing Muslima and if she wears for the sake of Allah's pleasure only then my respect to her reach such high level that no feminist on Earth who demand that men respect women will ever achieve as a sister who strive to please Allah alone and not demand anything from the creation of Allah and she put her trust only in Allah. So please forgive me if I had offended you and by all means never did I mean all women and never did I implied all women! If it came that way, please I ask for your forgiveness sister. I was simply targeting my frustration on only women who have the X on their foreheads and who have earned jahanam by their own hands and who is causing fasaat around us.

    But you have to give me a crumple of bread here with my frustration that there is no net for men when he falls but endless nets for when women fall. Wouldn't you be frustrated too?
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    xboxisdead's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Salaam



    Yes, its one of the worst self inflicted wounds Ive ever seen a society do to itself.

    Fake families are dyscivilizational

    The family is the building block of civilization, particularly the Western form of civilization. That is why the increasing percentage of illegitimate births across the West is such a devastating indicator of civilizational decline.



    This is a direct consequence of the de-Christianization of the West over the last 120 years. As I have repeatedly pointed out, you cannot remove ANY of the three pillars of Western civilization from your society and expect it to survive intact. It will not.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/
    Is this also going to effect Muslim countries too?
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  17. #73
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    Greetings and peace be with you xboxisdead;

    So please forgive me if I had offended you and by all means never did I mean all women and never did I implied all women! If it came that way, please I ask for your forgiveness sister.
    I see a glimmer of hope for you xbox, deep down you know what is right.


    format_quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    But you have to give me a crumple of bread here with my frustration that there is no net for men when he falls but endless nets for when women fall. Wouldn't you be frustrated too?
    Don't keep playing the victim, we have all been victims in this life. Let go of whatever happened in the past, then just draw a line under it, you can become that stronger and kinder man that you want to be.

    In the spirit of praying for a peace that surpasses all understanding,

    Eric
    | Likes ardianto liked this post
    So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.
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  18. #74
    xboxisdead's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you xboxisdead;



    I see a glimmer of hope for you xbox, deep down you know what is right.




    Don't keep playing the victim, we have all been victims in this life. Let go of whatever happened in the past, then just draw a line under it, you can become that stronger and kinder man that you want to be.

    In the spirit of praying for a peace that surpasses all understanding,

    Eric
    Oh i have always been like that..even when I was a little boy of age 10 and up. When I see a Muslimah with hijab I will not look at them directly, I will look away, avoid contacting them or talking to them or annoying or anything because they are non-mahram to me and because I obey Allah and his prophets (since I was that young and younger I never wore ones a short outside the home because I do not want to show my knees. I take wearing hijab for men seriously, because it is ordered by Allah, had I was been commanded to cover my entire body and hair and only show my face..I would have done that since I was 8 and never broke that cycle until I am dead. I would submit and obey and not complain)

    However...non-Muslim women to me are men. In fact, i think I heard from a shiekh somewhere that a Muslim woman is not allowed to touch a non-Muslim woman and a Muslim woman is not allowed to remove her hijab in front of a non-Muslim woman and a Muslim woman should not be in the same place alone with a non-Muslim woman. This should tell someone something...no!?
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out



    Sense of fatherhood is an instinct which is reflection of love in the heart. You cannot train a boy to have sense of fatherhood if you do not try to raise sense of love in his heart. But if you can raise up the sense of love in his heart, even without you teach him about fatherhood he will learn by himself how to be a good father.
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  21. #76
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto View Post


    Sense of fatherhood is an instinct which is reflection of love in the heart. You cannot train a boy to have sense of fatherhood if you do not try to raise sense of love in his heart. But if you can raise up the sense of love in his heart, even without you teach him about fatherhood he will learn by himself how to be a good father.
    If you have train a boy to love something or whip him into submission into loving something then you better stop, please. If fatherhood get instinct because the love of been fathers is ruined and stripped from boys heart then perhaps instead of taking courses and lessons and degrees to TRAIN BOYS TO fall in love with it again, that you may look to see the reason behind such instinction and fix the problem so that perhaps ones day somewhere such love may sprout again.

    For example, a boy is excited that one day he will be a father..he love it and you tell him...well your role is insignificant and holds no value...well that is one hammer and nail on his heart you poked a hole into it. Then as he grows older the media promotes only motherhood and glorify it and there is no mention about fathers except is inferior to her in comparison...well that is another nail on his heart we poked on. Then as he grows older he have his mother that does all the parenting and father is nowhere to be seen, he is busy with his friends and busy working and making...so he grows up formulating that the role of fathers are really about just financial means and that is it. Then he thinks, well that can be replaced by anyone else so I have no significant important as such role then you poke another nail on his heart (remember each poking is irreversible). Then he receives messages that it is his obligation and duties and you have to be a man and and...so it is work now..not love and fun but work and hardships and and...so you poke another hole in his heart to further expand that hole (like the destruction of the ozone layer). Such love diminishes as he grows older. He sees in family court fathers are less than animals in rights and that the mother can take and cause mental torture between father and child and that the mother have all the ability to cut ties between father and child and she uses the child as a weapon..he grows to understand that such scenario could happen to himself and he finds that in court and society he have to man up and fight and fight and if he does not fight he is a loser and he is not a good dad and and...so that puts even further hole in the heart for loving such role. He formulates a conclusion that fatherhood stink and stupid and in some cases he hates it. He focus on things he have control over and believe his rights are over and that is not fatherhood.....so if we really care about fatherhood as we say we do...it is now we change our thinking if we ...meh...don't give a damn....


    ..I mean why are we even having this discussion from the first place @_O?
    Last edited by AabiruSabeel; 10-18-2018 at 10:49 PM. Reason: Removed comments about another community
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  22. #77
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    ...meh...don't give a damn....
    I didn't mean to give you a ....... I just wanted to share what I know from my experience as father for 20 years, and I hope other parents can learn how to make their boys have sense of fatherhood in the future.

    I feel corcerned about what I have seen. There are men who left their their children, left the women who gave birth those inocent children. Men like this do exist, and few of them were my friends. I have seen how those women and children life are. Some of them face hard life in poverty because there is no financial support from the father who live with another woman and neglect them. The rest look luckier because the women have income. But I wonder what those children feel when they see other children look happy with their fathers.

    That's happened because those men have no sense of fatherhood. That's why I tried to remind about the importance of sense of fatherhood.

    | Likes Eric H liked this post
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  23. #78
    xboxisdead's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto View Post
    I didn't mean to give you a ....... I just wanted to share what I know from my experience as father for 20 years, and I hope other parents can learn how to make their boys have sense of fatherhood in the future.

    I feel corcerned about what I have seen. There are men who left their their children, left the women who gave birth those inocent children. Men like this do exist, and few of them were my friends. I have seen how those women and children life are. Some of them face hard life in poverty because there is no financial support from the father who live with another woman and neglect them. The rest look luckier because the women have income. But I wonder what those children feel when they see other children look happy with their fathers.

    That's happened because those men have no sense of fatherhood. That's why I tried to remind about the importance of sense of fatherhood.

    You have long way for that when we have worked long way and hard and imprinted in the gene of boys that fatherhood is a trashcan role to be thrown away. Don't forget...there are wars on fatherhood and the war is about to be a winner. Don't forget when a boy have any parenting feeling he says I am a mommy, he never says I am a daddy because he find mommy is more stronger than daddy and find mommy is natural..daddy is abnormal. If you are going to do what you say we should do then know it is a lifetime job that you have to instill to boys the importance of fatherhood and you will get benefits in this full time job, and you will need to work until retirement and clienteles are still coming to you like flocks of chickens. So you need new generations of employees to work on such company. You will never have shortage of boys with that issue. Look at me for example, I have volunteered in a musallah (masjid) to teach boys Quraan and memorization and by the way...the media that says boys are stupid and they are immature are the biggest liars I have ever seen. I have never seen such UNBELIEVABLY sharp..SMART...MATURE...arrticulate boys as I have seen in that masjid. Wooof. I felt like I was talking with little men...not boys. They had a mentor....a male mentor and that matured them and turned them into men...FAST. Well...this young men who is no more than 7 years old if not less...talked to me and said to me, "My father hates, he wants nothing to do with me. He was to my mother and he hit me and my mother and so my mother had to run away and he is with another woman now and he loves her children and her and not me." I tried to tell him..that he loves you and cares for you but he was not convinced and he argued, "Noooo..hates me.." and so on. So...a 7 year old if not less than that...said those words.....what do you think he will grow up to be? How do you think he will take his role to be? What you think his opinion toward men will be like? No one cares...let us be honest that is a boy who is crying for help..but he is a boy so no one cares. So why should he care? That will be his thoughts anyways and because that will be his thoughts as a child why should he care...he will formulate that is an ingredients when grows older and will reflect on his behavior as he reach adulthood and he WILL REPEAT the cycle of his father.....in one way or another..he will be another person who will leave his children and go somewhere...JUST...LIKE...HIS....DAD.

    Well - claps you on the back - enjoy your new found job
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  24. #79
    azc's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    Oh i have always been like that..even when I was a little boy of age 10 and up. When I see a Muslimah with hijab I will not look at them directly, I will look away, avoid contacting them or talking to them or annoying or anything because they are non-mahram to me and because I obey Allah and his prophets (since I was that young and younger I never wore ones a short outside the home because I do not want to show my knees. I take wearing hijab for men seriously, because it is ordered by Allah, had I was been commanded to cover my entire body and hair and only show my face..I would have done that since I was 8 and never broke that cycle until I am dead. I would submit and obey and not complain) However...non-Muslim women to me are men. In fact, i think I heard from a shiekh somewhere that a Muslim woman is not allowed to touch a non-Muslim woman and a Muslim woman is not allowed to remove her hijab in front of a non-Muslim woman and a Muslim woman should not be in the same place alone with a non-Muslim woman. This should tell someone something...no!?
    What kind of hijab you would wear, bro
    So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    Allah (swt) knows best
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    Re: So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    format_quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    What kind of hijab you would wear, bro
    Bare in mind my father died when I was a baby and I had no real male influence at all. I was raised by mother and grandmother so what I understood is that a man should not show his knees. With that I went and never wore shorts ever in my life and wore pants and robes at home all my life since I was a boy. See my pictures as a boy and you will find as I grew a certain age from that age and up all pants, pants, pants, pants, pants..long pants..pants....up to this age I am in right now..pants. Pant, pant, pant (sings). Yup...pants. I also cute my hair, I never grow it long (not that it is wrong) and all my shirts are either long sleeve shirts or short sleeve shirts but not one of them showing my chest or stomach. I love covering myself. I did not realize it..but when I was a little boy...like at 7 or such...I ACTUALLY cry with fountain of tears if I do not have an underwear on. I MUST wear that. I LOVE COVERING MY BODY. LOVE IT. Some men don't wear underwears and I am like are you crazy...but me..nope...even was a kid I love covering my body...LOVED IT!!!! I find.....setra covering my body.....
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