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    Problems in society hindering Marriage (OP)


    Hahaha! Honestly, I don’t like this labeling at all, but if you must know I fit under the regular/average sunni muslim.

    I don’t follow any specific scholars or madhabs because I feel like they are all made up by human beings that are very well fallible. Add to that the element of misunderstanding and miscommunication and you get rulings and things that are very morphed and extreme ideologies. But thats not the worst part.

    The thing that annoys me the most is when modern scholars keep warning us about the haram things, yet neglect to give halal substitutes for that which is haram. Every time when a new technology or idea or concept that immerge, scholars are quick to deem it haram without proper investigation or substitutes for it. It just makes the world harder and harder to live in.

    The simplest example I can offer is to look at the problem of marriage and premarital relations. How many times have we seen new things that immerge which promotes and simplify premarital relations (i.e. porn, one night stands, dating apps, pickup artists)? And how many times have we got things from scholars and Islamic leaders that help the youth get married and encouraging it? When was the last time you’ve seen as scholar asking parents to lower their standards of potential spouses for their daughters? When have you seen the umma provide apps or methods for the young muslim girls to background check their potential spouses? When have you seen Islamic leaders help the muslim men with their mahr for marriage? And if there are, why aren’t these things being promoted just as much as the haram things and warnings about them are?

    Oh boy, I just went off on a rant there and didn’t realise … lol. Anyways … point im trying to make is that, I don’t follow any specific madhabs or scholars because I feel like most of them are disconnected from reality and dont provide reasonable or compatible solutions to our modern-day issues of the world. And how could they when they have disconnected themselves so much from the rest of the world and only surround themselves with pious people that don’t see 10 feet beyond their sphere of influence to where the true fitna lies (which is actually where most people live and reside)?
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    Re: Is everyone on Islamicboard a salafi?

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    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    I don't like to generalize because every family is different. However, do you think that sometimes the issue is not that people are useless but that they don't see you as being compatible with the people they know? For example, say there is someone who has some bad qualities about him or is still quite immature but wants to get married, and when he asks the people around him he gets no help from them and assumes that they are putting no effort in assisting him. What would be the solution to such a situation?? Should the family blatantly tell him he's immature and no girl will have him? This is just one example, but there could be many reasons about why the family is not helpful. In the end though I can't say that families do not want their sons to get married, it's just a matter of under what conditions are they willing to genuinely support them? This is something to reflect on.
    Assalamulaikum,

    thanks for yours thoughts sister,

    I question myself always, whether I am mature or not. Not just in regard to marriage, generally. And I live in a society where people become mature very late actually. I would say, I'm mature. However, I could be more mature, I need to improve there is no doubt. And I am working on that. People can not really judge on that, because the brothers I meet are only at my workplace, otherwise I don't socialize with people much. When I told a brothers, I want to get married and it's very hard, they actually just say, ask that one brother who's already married, may be his wife knows someone, but that's all. Then I go to another brother, who barely knows me, because we have just shallow conversations at work. He agrees with me that it's hard and he had even difficulties to find his spouse. But nothing more happens. I don't think they think I am immature because, they cannot know me that good. The other brother he knows me better, but I think he's more aimless than me. He himself married really really late.

    When it comes to my parents, they want me get married. When I was younger I asked my mother, but she was like, "what do you know about marriage, do you know how hard that this", she didn't support me. Now she's pressurizing me, when do you want to get married. Even it's not my fault. My parents start looking for a wife so late, it's no wonder that nothing happens. It even might last for years to find someone suitable. My Parents don't think I am immature, they just don't know anyone. My mom found some over an Islamic course that took part in our neighbourhood - this girls got recommended my the other sisters. But without meeting the family or getting in touch, nothing happened. The one said, she wants to finish uni, the other one, she is not ready or something like that. I get "rejected" without them knowing me; so it cannot me personal. I haven't seen one of the girls or spoke to them.

    Than my family says, we can find someone in our country we're originally from. But I don't want that. Because we would rely to an Imam, that we barely know. Even I don't want to marry a sister from my originally country, because I don't know the language that good. And it's difficult because of a different culture. This is so sad, even my family in my originally country doesn't know anybody. There ARE girls but they don't practice the religion, don't cover. I don't expect anyone perfect, this is not possible, but my mom comes even with girls that don't pray, don't cover properly and are even possibly not really beautiful, and says: May be she will start practising through you. Aha, and what when not? I am not taking such a risk and headache sorry. Some who claims to be very religious and don't pray or cover properly, sorry, but that doesn't fit. We're not perfect, but I want to grow in my marriage and get some support and motivation from my spouse and give that back. However, this not possible with someone who doesn't practice at all. And let's be honest, may be I'm wrong but it is not more fun to pray with someone you really like share the same bed? May be I am wrong, too naive, too inexperienced.

    To the discussion: I think the scholars can not arrange all marriages. It's our elder brothers and sisters who are responsible. Sometimes I think they just have forgotten how unmarried people do feel. Normally, they have to come to you and try to direct you. You know like: "Brother, you came to this and that age, don't you consider marriage, I know someone, who might be suitable...", but mashaAllah they speak about Islam and how the leader just mess up everything. Dude, don't look at the leaders, just look at your own family what is a mess. You can not lead your own family and backbite about leaders who try to lead a nation. THAT'S OUR PROBLEM!!! Dealing with stuff that is irrelevant to us. Just deal with your surrounding, organize your family help brothers in your surrounding. That is what Allah says, when he speaks, that he will not change the situation of the Ummah, when we not change ourself. Try to be part of building a healthy society and you will see, that the macro level will even chance, bithiniAllah.

    I actually had a chance to get marriage, a brother - mashaAllah - told me he knows a sister who want to get married and if you have interested. But I denied, because, set me the goal the be knowledgeable before I get married. That happend six years ago. Nonetheless, I don't regret it, because this is also Qadr of Allah.

    Let's say, I have seen a sister at work (first gaze) and I have seen she is dressing well. So I got interested, without knowing anything about her or looked at her in detail. And I even don't know whether she's religious or not -> clothing says nothing. Is there an Islamic way of getting in touch with her? Would that be inappropriate? For example finding out something about her? But here is the problem, I don't want to speak to women directly, that inappropriate, but I cannot send I brother to her....
    Last edited by new2010; 02-18-2018 at 07:04 PM.
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Lets look at how a normal conversation between ateen and the arab community goes ...
    1- teen requests to get married because they arestarting to feel like adults underneath their belt. They are told to get a holdof themselves because they are being immature and just hormonal. They shouldwait until they become a bit older when their brains are more developed.
    2- The teen becomes a young adult then requeststo get married again. They are asked if they have a good academic status first.The young adult then goes off to develop their academia.
    3- By then the young adult has entered their mid20s and looks for a spouse again. They are asked, do you have a decent incometo support a family? The young adult then goes off to work their bums off todevelop their career so that they get paid a decent amount to support a family.
    4- By that time this person has probably reachedthe age of 30 or 35 years old without a husband or wife.
    5- By then when that person proposes to someone,(if he is a man) he is told "your too old for my daughter" or (if sheis a women) she is told "your too old to bare children of my son".
    Seems I'm only at stage 2.

    I fully agree with you. Add on top of all this the fact that the parents want a certain ethnicity in countries where that specific ethnicity sums up to only 0.5% or less of the population and you've got yourself a recipe for disaster.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    Let's say, I have seen a sister at work (first gaze) and I have seen she is dressing well. So I got interested, without knowing anything about her or looked at her in detail. And I even don't know whether she's religious or not -> clothing says nothing. Is there an Islamic way of getting in touch with her? Would that be inappropriate? For example finding out something about her? But here is the problem, I don't want to speak to women directly, that inappropriate, but I cannot send I brother to her....
    There is nothing wrong with going up to her and asking for her father's number. Look at khadija, she wanted to ask Muhammed pbuh, but was too shy. So she asked a female friend to ask for her. If khadija can do it, I'm sure you can too.

    You might hesitate to ask for her father's number, because it sounds a bit weird. But it will only sound weird to any non practicing sister/brother, so see it as a test if she has the intention to get married and not fool around.

    Just my two cents.
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  5. #23
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Okay, so here is what i understood from yourpost in general (and you can correct me if im wrong). You emphasize on the factthat marriage is not obligatory hence we should not promote it as much as wepromote the warnings of doing haram. You seem to suggest that just becausemarriage helps in making a halal outlet for the sexual desires of people, itshould not be portrayed as the only solutions as there are other problems thataccompany marriage such as the burden or responsibility and providing for thefamily and all of these extra chores. Your basically saying that marriage has alot more problems to it than the benefit of sexual pleasure and what not, thusit shouldnt be regarded as the solution.
    In a perfect world, I genuinely would want everyone who wants to get married to be able to do so and for Allah to increase their blessings.
    The reality of it though is that marriage is NOT destined for everyone. In which case, marriage is NOT their solution. So what happens then? Tell me.

    For those who are destined to get married, in it there are trials just like any other blessing we get in this world. If the only purpose you see in marriage is for it to satisfy your sexual desires, then your marriage will fail or struggle because you have neglected to strengthen/generate the other important aspects of marriage.

    So with that being said, in the downtime that you're not able to find a suitable wife, you should be working towards being a great future husband, a devout worshipper, a respectful son, a patient and grateful slave, etc.

    This may sound crazy, but the way I think about it is that from the day you decided that you wanted to get married, you should have started saving for a mahr. You should have been working to support your future wife because the mahr is just the tip of the iceberg of what you will need to support your future family. You should be making sincere du'a that Allah grants you contentment with his decree no matter what it is, or to make you deserving of marriage, etc. You should be respectful to your parents in the highest degree. If they do something wrong due to culture, then kindly guide them towards the correct way. You should refrain from committing acts of haram because every time you commit something haram you steal from your marriage and your akhira, both of which you will lose if you don't protect your chastity. You can do all of this even if you have not yet been granted a wife. At least if you don't get married, the mahr can be used to perform hajj and the good deeds you do will build you a house and grant you a beautiful wife in jannah. You should be quite independent of anyone else because you really don't need anyone's permission to get married (apart from the girl's father). If you can get it together, who's to really say anything or be unsupportive?

    So there's no doubt in my mind, that if a man is truly like this that Allah will forsaken him.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Lets look at how a normal conversation between ateen and the arab community goes ...
    1- teen requests to get married because they arestarting to feel like adults underneath their belt. They are told to get a holdof themselves because they are being immature and just hormonal. They shouldwait until they become a bit older when their brains are more developed.
    2- The teen becomes a young adult then requeststo get married again. They are asked if they have a good academic status first.The young adult then goes off to develop their academia.
    3- By then the young adult has entered their mid20s and looks for a spouse again. They are asked, do you have a decent incometo support a family? The young adult then goes off to work their bums off todevelop their career so that they get paid a decent amount to support a family.
    4- By that time this person has probably reachedthe age of 30 or 35 years old without a husband or wife.
    5- By then when that person proposes to someone,(if he is a man) he is told "your too old for my daughter" or (if sheis a women) she is told "your too old to bare children of my son".

    What I see these days is that from the teenage years to the young adult years, the son distances himself from his family unit. He wants to experiment, may have an attitude/be disrespectful, carries a lot of anger, etc. And then after his parents have lost their trust in him, he wants to ask for help when he hasn't really established a good image with them. Another issue is that girls are generally more mature than guys are at that age and therefore prefer someone older. I personally don't have an issue with couples getting married and studying together. It would probably be ideal. I don't think anyone would really have an issue with it if the guy is independent or has a viable plan.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    ALL this because we dont trust these young adultsthat they will be able to support themselves and their spouses in the future.ALL of this because we still have this stupid concept that marriage is only forthose who wants to start a family and shouldnt be for 2 who simply love eachother and just want to be together. All this because we cant stand the thoughtof having a couple that are incapable of living together at least for the timethey are trying to progress their academia. (just a side note to that, see if youcan ask your parents how old they were when they got married, chances are theyprobably got married around the age of 22 or younger. Meanwhile today we arebeing forced to wait even longer than that all the while haram things aregetting easier and easier to obtain)
    Do you have someone in mind of who you want to marry?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    I apologize if I may seem a bit aggressive in this post but its only because I have experienced the problems that come out of this way of thinking and I have suffered immensely from these limitations (this topic truly strike a nerve for me and hits me hard to my core). My main concern in this post is to let you know that marriage is a much needed solution to fix the very problem of all sexual desires that affect the youth ( I am aware of that marriage can actually amplify these desires, but that problem goes under a different heading. Marriage is meant to address the basic need of sex and other needs, not a cure to psychological problems). So it shouldn’t be thought of as a tool that’s only meant to start a family and not meant for lovers who want to just be together. Because it is meant for people like that as well. And as for my initial post, that was meant to address the problems of misunderstanding and misinterpretation OF, and BY the scholars. The way I see it … it is because of the umma’s short comings that I had to go through what I suffered, and it is because of the scholars and their successor’s short comings that brought the umma to this state. The funny thing is that in the end, I am the one that gets blamed for all I went through. I am the one that gets called “Disease hearted, soul corrupted, deviant, non Islamic, muslim faker, transgressor”! And its my fault that I didn’t do enough research that could have saved me all this even though I was only 12. And for those who will say “but its your parents fault, not the entire umma.” Guess what? My parents are also part of this umma and they were taught about islam the same way that most of the umma do if not better!
    I can understand that you have a lot of pent up anger about your past, but you didn't know and it may be that Allah will forgive you for your ignorance at that age. Sometimes when we are able to repent from such grave sins it makes us stronger believers and worshippers. It opens our eyes and allows us not to fall into anything worse. You are older now, so you should see the importance of knowledge and how it can prevent sins. You can use what you've learned and help others. Your reaction to protect yourself is by gravitating to the idea of marriage, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's something to be respected and revered, but my whole point is that in the meantime you should be mending the things that are breaking you and become a stronger person. I'm speaking to you as I'd speak to my younger brother. I wouldn't want you to be the bare minimum of what a husband is, but to exceed your potential because you have the time and resources to do so despite whether you find a wife or not. If you died tomorrow, what have you built with your time? What would be your excuse? That you didn't get married? You have to believe that when it's your time to get married, you will be married whether you want it or not, whether your parents or community support it or not. If it is meant for you it will happen by Allah's decree and no one can take that away. But the situations you are able to control now you should do the best with them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Walaikum Assalam,

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    Than my family says, we can find someone in our country we're originally from. But I don't want that. Because we would rely to an Imam, that we barely know. Even I don't want to marry a sister from my originally country, because I don't know the language that good. And it's difficult because of a different culture. This is so sad, even my family in my originally country doesn't know anybody. There ARE girls but they don't practice the religion, don't cover. I don't expect anyone perfect, this is not possible, but my mom comes even with girls that don't pray, don't cover properly and are even possibly not really beautiful, and says: May be she will start practising through you. Aha, and what when not? I am not taking such a risk and headache sorry. Some who claims to be very religious and don't pray or cover properly, sorry, but that doesn't fit. We're not perfect, but I want to grow in my marriage and get some support and motivation from my spouse and give that back. However, this not possible with someone who doesn't practice at all. And let's be honest, may be I'm wrong but it is not more fun to pray with someone you really like share the same bed? May be I am wrong, too naive, too inexperienced.
    Don't you think you make it more difficult for yourself when you have prejudices about the girls before you even meet them? You can at least give it a chance. Even if it doesn't work out, you'd know that you put the effort. Without the effort, how do you expect to meet someone that is meant for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    Let's say, I have seen a sister at work (first gaze) and I have seen she is dressing well. So I got interested, without knowing anything about her or looked at her in detail. And I even don't know whether she's religious or not -> clothing says nothing. Is there an Islamic way of getting in touch with her? Would that be inappropriate? For example finding out something about her? But here is the problem, I don't want to speak to women directly, that inappropriate, but I cannot send I brother to her....
    I think every girl is different in the way she will react to someone who wants to approach them for marriage, but if your intentions are pure, and your gaze is lowered, and you're not in a private space, you could talk to her directly. Keep it "business-like" and respectful. You could ask her for her father's number. Alternatively, you can also have your mother (or sister if you have one) approach her and speak with her. If one of your friends has a sister/wife, maybe ask if she could message her about you and see if she'd be interested. If there is agreement then you can sit down with the presence of her wali and get to know the type of person she is. I think that's the safest option and least direct. May Allah make things easy for you ameen.
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    Problems in society hindering Marriage

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

  6. #24
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Greetings and peace be with you ChosenTCO;
    I, for one, heard about pornographic things at the age of 9 or 10 (before I even knew how babies were made) and was exposed to it at around 12 through my peers at school.
    Oscar Wilde famously said, I can resist everything...........except temptation, and he was a grown man when he said this. Children at the age of 9 -10 are exposed to drugs and alcohol too, sadly when children are exposed to temptation, the problems seem more profound, and their problems carry on through life. It is said that a big percentage of mental health problems start from childhood.

    Because out of all the things ive mentioned, it is that(depression and self conflict/hatred) which hurt me the most
    .
    Allah has given us all a conscience, because some things are just wrong, and they are wrong because they can destroy us. Allah wants us all to be compassionate, kind patient and loving, so fight all battles and struggles with kindness and compassion.

    Lord grant me the peace and serenity to live with the things I cannot change.
    Give me the courage to change the things I can.
    And the wisdom to know the difference.

    The first line of the prayer.
    You can't change the past, what has been done cannot be undone, you can't change other people. So try and live in peace with all these struggles.

    The second line
    You can shape your present and your future. Deep down you know what is right, you sound like a good person, your conflict and depression is there to help you. The person you can change the most is ME, but it takes courage to change ourselves.

    The last line of the prayer is probably the most important, the wisdom to know the difference. If you want to change the things that you cannot change, this will lead to depression and self destruction.

    Pray for help and guidance to do the will of Allah, then all things will fall into place.

    Blessings
    Eric

    - - - Updated - - -

    Greetings and peace be with you *charisma*;

    Very wise words as always.

    Blessings
    Eric
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    Problems in society hindering Marriage

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    In a perfect world, I genuinely would want everyone who wants to get married to be able to do so and for Allah to increase their blessings.
    The reality of it though is that marriage is NOT destined for everyone. In which case, marriage is NOT their solution. So what happens then? Tell me.

    For those who are destined to get married, in it there are trials just like any other blessing we get in this world. If the only purpose you see in marriage is for it to satisfy your sexual desires, then your marriage will fail or struggle because you have neglected to strengthen/generate the other important aspects of marriage.

    So with that being said, in the downtime that you're not able to find a suitable wife, you should be working towards being a great future husband, a devout worshipper, a respectful son, a patient and grateful slave, etc.

    This may sound crazy, but the way I think about it is that from the day you decided that you wanted to get married, you should have started saving for a mahr. You should have been working to support your future wife because the mahr is just the tip of the iceberg of what you will need to support your future family. You should be making sincere du'a that Allah grants you contentment with his decree no matter what it is, or to make you deserving of marriage, etc. You should be respectful to your parents in the highest degree. If they do something wrong due to culture, then kindly guide them towards the correct way. You should refrain from committing acts of haram because every time you commit something haram you steal from your marriage and your akhira, both of which you will lose if you don't protect your chastity. You can do all of this even if you have not yet been granted a wife. At least if you don't get married, the mahr can be used to perform hajj and the good deeds you do will build you a house and grant you a beautiful wife in jannah. You should be quite independent of anyone else because you really don't need anyone's permission to get married (apart from the girl's father). If you can get it together, who's to really say anything or be unsupportive?

    So there's no doubt in my mind, that if a man is truly like this that Allah will forsaken him.




    What I see these days is that from the teenage years to the young adult years, the son distances himself from his family unit. He wants to experiment, may have an attitude/be disrespectful, carries a lot of anger, etc. And then after his parents have lost their trust in him, he wants to ask for help when he hasn't really established a good image with them. Another issue is that girls are generally more mature than guys are at that age and therefore prefer someone older. I personally don't have an issue with couples getting married and studying together. It would probably be ideal. I don't think anyone would really have an issue with it if the guy is independent or has a viable plan.




    Do you have someone in mind of who you want to marry?


    I can understand that you have a lot of pent up anger about your past, but you didn't know and it may be that Allah will forgive you for your ignorance at that age. Sometimes when we are able to repent from such grave sins it makes us stronger believers and worshippers. It opens our eyes and allows us not to fall into anything worse. You are older now, so you should see the importance of knowledge and how it can prevent sins. You can use what you've learned and help others. Your reaction to protect yourself is by gravitating to the idea of marriage, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's something to be respected and revered, but my whole point is that in the meantime you should be mending the things that are breaking you and become a stronger person. I'm speaking to you as I'd speak to my younger brother. I wouldn't want you to be the bare minimum of what a husband is, but to exceed your potential because you have the time and resources to do so despite whether you find a wife or not. If you died tomorrow, what have you built with your time? What would be your excuse? That you didn't get married? You have to believe that when it's your time to get married, you will be married whether you want it or not, whether your parents or community support it or not. If it is meant for you it will happen by Allah's decree and no one can take that away. But the situations you are able to control now you should do the best with them.

    I feel like you are very close to being on the same page as me, but you keep circling around the same methodology that wont reap us much benefit in the long run. All of the solutions and reasoning you gave about the problems mentioned are very sound and logical, but it still doesnt attack the problem at its core. For example: you mentioned how teenagers become less trusted because they detach themselves from their families, have disrespectful attitudes and carry anger and agression. You mentioned how men should start saving for their mahr and start working to have a stable income for them to be desirable to women. You mentioned that people who cant find marriage should learn to refrain from haram things. All are logical points that fixes these on going problems in our society but it never attacks the roots of the problem

    What im suggesting is that instead of letting the teenager become so disrespectful and always angry and then blame them for their actions, we should try and help them find those things that makes them like that and fix it (that way the teenager will have more trust towards us and rely on us even more than before). Instead of not trusting the young adult to get a decent job and then wait for his pay to be even better, we should trust that he will do his part in trying to find a decent earning in the future and make tawakul on Allah that he will provide for the young couple from where they do not know or expect. Just like our parents and grandparents who used to get married as well (we all have to go through hardship and its part of what makes the bond between the couple grow. They support each other!). Else if we keep this mentality, we should also remember that even if the man gets a decent job and pay, the day he gets married he might also get terminated from his job by the decree of Allah, so we should not have that mentality and make tawakul instead. This way of thinking completely eliminates the problem of forcing the young adults to wait even longer before marriage and exposes them to fitna. And as for refraining from haram, its much easier if we just made the halal easier to obtain than exposing ourselves to the haram for prolonged periods of time and suffering the risk of maybe failing to refrain from it one day. Why dont we just eliminate the need of refraining and risking ourself by just eliminating the haram desire all together? By marrying these people so that they don’t have the urge to release these desires else where other than what is right in front them?

    I hope you are starting to see my logic behind the solutions I give and the benefits that it can reap us. Teaching our kids to refrain from the haram will not get rid of the urges, but granting an easy halal outlet for these desires will always keep the urges at bay … and that’s how you fix the root of the problem, by controlling the cause(urge) and not the symptoms(falling into haram).

    And as for those who seem to be destined not to get married ... imagine how much their numbers will decrease once we make marriage more easy to achieve?

    In the end, i still want to stress that i do acknowledge that your solutions are very logical, but only if its meant to be suppress the problems, not fix it.
    1 | Likes azc liked this post

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    xboxisdead's Avatar
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    I feel like you are very close to...
    I have a question to ask you. Just a simple question. Say in the future more and more and more laws strip men his rights in marriage and say you combine it with Japanese way of marriage. How does Japanese way of marriage work? A man work his heart out and when he is married the wife takes 100% salary and he cannot hide from her, it is solid close sealed that she have access to all his wealth and he only get salary of $10.00 a month where he spends on himself and the rest of the money she spends it on herself, in her investment and the children and the husband is nothing more than a mule working. Would you still get married? Let us put it even further than that, in Japan the man is nothing more than a head figure only but the real leadership is the wife and the female in the household. It is a matriarchal setting and the husband is just a figurehead you put on the table as his head wobbles but the wife is the one the drive the bus. Would you still get married? Assume for argument sake you would not get married, would you die? You would go frail? Would you commit suicide? Would you go into killing spree? Would you suffocate because you are not married?

    If you do then please ignore the rest of this message and continue in your posts but if the answer is no then why are you so immanent to marriage exactly? Marriage is an endless ungrateful responsibilities and you are at fault of everything that goes wrong and don't think you will get a thanks for your effort and when you die you long will be forgotten. Why are you sell hill-bend in marriage is beyond me. A man in this day an age is a fool to getting married. I really don't understand these men's obsession of marriage is beyond me Remember the more you need something the more you are putting yourself into weakness and the more the other person have the upper hand on you.
    Last edited by xboxisdead; 02-20-2018 at 01:17 AM.

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    I have a question to ask you. Just a simple question. Say in the future more and more and more laws strip men his rights in marriage and say you combine it with Japanese way of marriage. How does Japanese way of marriage work? A man work his heart out and when he is married the wife takes 100% salary and he cannot hide from her, it is solid close sealed that she have access to all his wealth and he only get salary of $10.00 a month where he spends on himself and the rest of the money she spends it on herself, in her investment and the children and the husband is nothing more than a mule working. Would you still get married? Let us put it even further than that, in Japan the man is nothing more than a head figure only but the real leadership is the wife and the female in the household. It is a matriarchal setting and the husband is just a figurehead you put on the table as his head wobbles but the wife is the one the drive the bus. Would you still get married? Assume for argument sake you would not get married, would you die? You would go frail? Would you commit suicide? Would you go into killing spree? Would you suffocate because you are not married?


    If you do then please ignore the rest of this message and continue in your posts but if the answer is no then why are you so immanent to marriage exactly? Marriage is an endless ungrateful responsibilities and you are at fault of everything that goes wrong and don't think you will get a thanks for your effort and when you die you long will be forgotten. Why are you sell hill-bend in marriage is beyond me. A man in this day an age is a fool to getting married. I really don't understand these men's obsession of marriage is beyond me Remember the more you need something the more you are putting yourself into weakness and the more the other person have the upper hand on you.
    Brother, you posts about marriage have been harsh. Is this because of some bad experience that you had in a previous marriage?

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by 00001001 View Post
    There is nothing wrong with going up to her and asking for her father's number. Look at khadija, she wanted to ask Muhammed pbuh, but was too shy. So she asked a female friend to ask for her. If khadija can do it, I'm sure you can too.

    You might hesitate to ask for her father's number, because it sounds a bit weird. But it will only sound weird to any non practicing sister/brother, so see it as a test if she has the intention to get married and not fool around.

    Just my two cents.
    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    I think every girl is different in the way she will react to someone who wants to approach them for marriage, but if your intentions are pure, and your gaze is lowered, and you're not in a private space, you could talk to her directly. Keep it "business-like" and respectful. You could ask her for her father's number. Alternatively, you can also have your mother (or sister if you have one) approach her and speak with her. If one of your friends has a sister/wife, maybe ask if she could message her about you and see if she'd be interested. If there is agreement then you can sit down with the presence of her wali and get to know the type of person she is. I think that's the safest option and least direct. May Allah make things easy for you ameen.
    I think this is not an good idea. Most people will get it the wrong way. Unfortunately I had done such a similar thing a couple of years ago. I got criticized by an Imaam for that. That was the first and last time I approached a woman personally. Even I lowered my gaze and didn't speak to her, obviously it was wrong.

    So, there is no way for me except, sticking to asking Allah for guidance in that matter. But it has one good aspect: I can work on myself in the meanwhile. I just hope that Allah will not test me for any longer in that matter, because I really feel emotionally need to get married. Just want to have someone to share life and have this feeling of protection and head and security bi'idhnillah.

    btw: Akhi, your're talking from Khadija, people nowadays, are not like that.

    Nevertheless, thanks for your suggestions.

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd View Post
    Brother, you posts about marriage have been harsh. Is this because of some bad experience that you had in a previous marriage?



    In additional to my personal experience with my two brothers. I don't want a woman tying my neck with shackles and I have to obey and submit to her...no thanks! I am an idiot to even want this in my life. In this day an age it is suicide for men marrying and yet there are people like new2010 who is dying to get married


    The last thing I want is to be THAT:



    Let us face it...men are replaceable resource that ones the woman have had enough of you you are disposed to be replaced. There is no respect or value in this world being a husband or father. You want to do it only because you are either lonely or want a family and that is your choice and you may convince yourself that is the duty of a man to self sacrifice as you get the benefit of a family and raise your kids, let me tell you that doesn't give me any satisfaction. Knowing I am not a human being when I am married just so I can raise a family, no thanks! Knowing I am single and I am a person and human and my house is my castle instead of having the worst place in the house as a man-cave when I am married, no thanks. Remember, when a divorce happen that child who lived under your roof 24/7 now will only talk to you ones a year or you see that child ones every month or every two to three month and the child will hate you or just need you for money and you will lose more than 50% of your wealth to that woman who was ones your wife and she can take all your wealth, why? Give me one reason what benefit a man to getting married. Sex? No thanks. Children? I can adopt..pfft. Wife? Every time I think of a wife I think of her carrying a frying pan, giving me her anger face and ready to smack my head with it and all fault is mine. No thanks.
    Last edited by xboxisdead; 02-20-2018 at 07:28 PM.

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Assalamu alaikum
    @xboxisdead

    I don't even know where to begin what a sad way to look at life through your eyes bro. Subhanallah...

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    I think this is not an good idea. Most people will get it the wrong way. Unfortunately I had done such a similar thing a couple of years ago. I got criticized by an Imaam for that. That was the first and last time I approached a woman personally. Even I lowered my gaze and didn't speak to her, obviously it was wrong.

    So, there is no way for me except, sticking to asking Allah for guidance in that matter. But it has one good aspect: I can work on myself in the meanwhile. I just hope that Allah will not test me for any longer in that matter, because I really feel emotionally need to get married. Just want to have someone to share life and have this feeling of protection and head and security bi'idhnillah.

    btw: Akhi, your're talking from Khadija, people nowadays, are not like that.

    Nevertheless, thanks for your suggestions.
    Why do you feel you've done something wrong when you haven't? https://islamqa.info/en/13791


    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    What im suggesting is that instead of letting the teenager become so disrespectful and always angry and then blame them for their actions, we should try and help them find those things that makes them like that and fix it (that way the teenager will have more trust towards us and rely on us even more than before).
    Unfortunately, sometimes we don't have control in that. Speaking from experience, if a bro wants to do something and his mind is already made up, it's difficult to tell him otherwise or for him to see the other perspective no matter how much you advise. At that age, they feel like they are already men and to prove it they want to do things their way. They don't feel completely understood or they feel that they know what's right for them more so than those who are advising them. I think also when people sin, they start to become secretive and it gets worse because they don't have someone who knows about it (because of their secrecy and distant nature) to scold them and stop them before it gets worse. Sometimes they even gravitate towards individuals who are bad influencers because they feel they can relate to them. Helping may have worked with you, but it doesn't work with everyone.

    I don't disagree with what you say but the reason I say what I say is because this is what is relevant NOW. Before when our parents got married is a very different time under completely different circumstances, and in 10-20 years it will probably be very different than it is now. You'll never be able to control the culture around you. You can only control yourself and how much you allow it to affect you. It's futile to get angry about everything when it's beyond your control and you’ll never be able to change it. It’s written that society will be getting worse anyway, so while it is disheartening to think about, we have to be in check with our iman at all times. Nothing else in this world will suffice us except that. The best that you can do for the future is make sure your own children, your younger relatives, your friends, etc. don’t have to experience what you’ve experienced. But what is wrong with the world is something we all know and it’s harder to fix it than it is to point it out. We can only do our part.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Instead of not trusting the young adult to get a decent job and then wait for his pay to be even better, we should trust that he will do his part in trying to find a decent earning in the future and make tawakul on Allah that he will provide for the young couple from where they do not know or expect. Just like our parents and grandparents who used to get married as well (we all have to go through hardship and its part of what makes the bond between the couple grow. They support each other!). Else if we keep this mentality, we should also remember that even if the man gets a decent job and pay, the day he gets married he might also get terminated from his job by the decree of Allah, so we should not have that mentality and make tawakul instead.
    I agree. Making tawakkul is a state of iman, so may allah increase us in tawakkul ameen.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    This way of thinking completely eliminates the problem of forcing the young adults to wait even longer before marriage and exposes them to fitna. And as for refraining from haram, its much easier if we just made the halal easier to obtain than exposing ourselves to the haram for prolonged periods of time and suffering the risk of maybe failing to refrain from it one day. Why dont we just eliminate the need of refraining and risking ourself by just eliminating the haram desire all together? By marrying these people so that they don’t have the urge to release these desires else where other than what is right in front them?

    I hope you are starting to see my logic behind the solutions I give and the benefits that it can reap us. Teaching our kids to refrain from the haram will not get rid of the urges, but granting an easy halal outlet for these desires will always keep the urges at bay … and that’s how you fix the root of the problem, by controlling the cause(urge) and not the symptoms(falling into haram).

    And as for those who seem to be destined not to get married ... imagine how much their numbers will decrease once we make marriage more easy to achieve?

    In the end, i still want to stress that i do acknowledge that your solutions are very logical, but only if its meant to be suppress the problems, not fix it.
    I do want to point out something. I agree with what you're saying especially if there are two people who want to be together and want to save themselves from the fitnah, but there is the other aspect from the opposite gender that you're not considering. I think one of the reasons it is difficult for young brothers to get married is because sisters at that age (who are generally younger than bros) are indeed too young to be thinking about accepting marriage. Say a bro is 18 years old and he wants to get married, what is the age of the girl he wants to marry? It would probably be a girl 18 or younger. We generally don't experience the same issues that bros experience with regards to urges, so quite easily up to the age of 22, most do not want to get married because they don't feel the need to or they have other aspirations at the time. I personally know that even when they get proposals at a younger age (say 16-18 years old) many of them will vocalize that they don't want to get married until they graduate for example, or unless there is a suitable proposal that they just can't say no to (the guy is mature, attractive, pious, financially stable). At 18 many guys are very immature and we know that. It's not always the parents/society, but what girls want as well. So this does force the younger bros to wait or work harder. This isn't always the case though, but most of the time it is. But yes if there are two individuals who want to get married, it should be easy for them too. I do admit that sisters have a lot of power to vocalize what they want though regardless of society's expectations.

    Would be much easier if the sisters just proposed, wouldn't it
    Last edited by *charisma*; 02-20-2018 at 08:31 PM.
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    Problems in society hindering Marriage

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Wa alaikum assalam,

    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    Why do you feel you've done something wrong when you haven't? https://islamqa.info/en/13791
    I don't know, because I got criticized by the Imaam. He asked me, if I would like it when someone would do such a thing to my own sister. If he would do it, as I have done it, I think I wouldn't have a problem with that. Honestly: I even don't know exactly how she looks. So there was no fitna at all involved, I hadn't even spoken to her except saying twice the salam. A thing of maybe 5 sec. My heart is calm in that regard. But he asked me that thing with my sister, and that made me sad, because I'm sure when he said that he considered the Hadith when a boy came to rasulAllah a.s and ask for permission to commit zinaa...

    May be my Du'a is not powerful enough. I always ask Allah - even in Sujud - Ya Allah please give me a wife that is good for me and my religion. Should I add something to that? And I say the Dua rabbana atina fitdunya...

    I generally don't care what people think about me, because it's important what Allah thinks about me. Nonetheless, I don't like critique from Imaams or knowledgeable brothers, because of, even if there is chance of going against the word of Allah I feel bad. Even if they are wrong with their critique. And I think they will think I am one of those who play with the religion.

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    *charisma*'s Avatar
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    I don't know, because I got criticized by the Imaam. He asked me, if I would like it when someone would do such a thing to my own sister. If he would do it, as I have done it, I think I wouldn't have a problem with that. Honestly: I even don't know exactly how she looks. So there was no fitna at all involved, I hadn't even spoken to her except saying twice the salam. A thing of maybe 5 sec. My heart is calm in that regard. But he asked me that thing with my sister, and that made me sad, because I'm sure when he said that he considered the Hadith when a boy came to rasulAllah a.s and ask for permission to commit zinaa...
    That's a bit extreme what you said at the end, that he would think that way. I personally don't see anything wrong with it if it's done in a respectful way and I don't think there's anything against it as long as no fitnah is involved as outlined in the link I sent. You can make du'a but you still have to put the effort in making contact/proposing whether through yourself or through someone else like your mother, sister, etc.
    Problems in society hindering Marriage

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by 00001001 View Post
    I actually launched a website called HalalMatchmaking, it was a website where people could simply filter based on things like country, age, amount of Islamic knowledge, if he/she smokes, if the man has a beard etc. etc. (see image for full list for males). Long story short, I had to shut it down since it hardly got any members. Maybe the market is saturated, wrong platform (maybe an app was beter) or simply no demand? Anyway, there are people who genuinely try to help the Ummah, altough it doesn't always end as intented.

    Now working on an health app that makes people lose weight and/or gain muscle. Maybe I'll try an app version of the matchmaking website in the future, not sure though.

    Attachment 6363
    Muscle tone as well? Woah thats super specific

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd View Post
    All I got from the OP is he really wants to follow his whims and desires and imitate the kuffar but wants to blame scholars for it.
    Not necessarily- he just wants it easier to get married, fair enough. Theres nothing wrong with using apps granted you're using them in a halal way.

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    Re: Is everyone on Islamicboard a salafi?

    Quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    That is how women attack men is through his children. Worst thing a man can ever do is love his children, because it put him in a point of weakness where his woman will use the children to control him and if a divorce happens use the children as means to hurt him the most. Children are powerful weapon that belongs to women to hurt men. You cannot deny that.

    Tell me if it is a lie of stories after stories after stories when a divorce happen that the mother use the very children at the beginning of marriage at the end to make the children hate their fathers, cut ties with their fathers and society in general doesn't even come to the aid. So please, don't make it look like it is all bells and whistles. Children is a further stress to men that will harm him when divorce happens.

    Also don't think children is all that great either:



    By the way, more shaming tactics towards men will be..."So what? Women go through birth and she sacrifice for her children, be a man and take it. It doesn't come close to what a mother goes through." Isn't that what you guys do to further devalue men's role and strip him from any right and devalue him and make him another further doormat to be used and abused. Men will have to MAN UP now doesn't he?
    Whaaa? Really? Did you just say women try to devaluate men because they dont give birth? Dude giving birth is not easy and i think you're over exagerating here. If you're so against kids dont have but dont rant at us about it. As for the women giving birth thing... You seem to be simplifying it a lot. Of coursw men and women deserve respect, but giving birth is one of the most hardest and difficult things someone can do,so i think we all get a little respect here

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    salaam

    I honestly think that whole marriage thing is out of controls and the society and culture you live dictates how one gets marriad - the scholars can advice and tell people what is within the bounds of shariah but ultimately its up to the wider community to solve this problem

    Hyper sexual world with porn, hook up culture and then you have slow arranged marriages trying to compete with that. - its a very big problem. Sadly I have no solutions lol.
    Yes. Exactly. Its like we're trying to solve all issues with marriage
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1 View Post
    Muscle tone as well? Woah thats super specific
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me. The women's menu even had an extra "muscular" option, aside from "normal" and "fit" since men aren't into that (at least I hope so).

    Edit: Btw, aside from things like age, gender and location. Other options were optional, muscle tone one among them.
    Last edited by 00001001; 02-23-2018 at 02:08 AM.
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    Re: Is everyone on Islamicboard a salafi?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1 View Post
    Whaaa? Really? Did you just say women try to devaluate men because they dont give birth? Dude giving birth is not easy and i think you're over exagerating here. If you're so against kids dont have but dont rant at us about it. As for the women giving birth thing... You seem to be simplifying it a lot. Of coursw men and women deserve respect, but giving birth is one of the most hardest and difficult things someone can do,so i think we all get a little respect here
    I never said giving birth is easy but Allah (Subhanahu Wa talaa) does not give women the ability to give birth just so she can use it as weapon against the men in their lives and cause cutting ties between father and children and nor did Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) gave women authority of the children over the father just so that she can use the children to manipulate the father by using his children or to force a man to be dad against his will and to take from him as much as money as possible and to use the children as men of getting rich or means of transferring all wealth from men to women. That is exactly what is happening here. Then when women somehow do better than men what is the first thing she says, "We don't need men!" or my favorite part "Men are unnecessary!" Man I love that line the most. Oh also the mantra that man are idiots and women are superior over men intellect and fathers are helpless without his wife and men can't raise children at all and the house will crumple without a woman all these devaluing the role of men and putting him down is what we have right now in Western society. My favorite and best reason why women should have full custody of children all the time because men don't know how to raise children or can't love the children better than a mother can. You are aware the majority of child rape and child abuse by the way comes from the mother. So much for that stereo type that women do better than men in raising children. All of these resulted in a society of single mothers, courts and laws that favor women against men and new and new generation of men simply opting out of marriage. Honestly if I am that worthless and useless because I don't have female part and my value in marriage is garbage and I have to obey and submit to some woman...no thanks! You are right....I don't want to get married!


    Finally someone get it!!!!


    Fathers are not second class parents!! That is my favorite line ever!!
    Last edited by xboxisdead; 02-23-2018 at 06:31 AM.

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    Re: Is everyone on Islamicboard a salafi?

    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    I don't disagree with what you say but the reason I say what I say is because this is what is relevant NOW. Before when our parents got married is a very different time under completely different circumstances, and in 10-20 years it will probably be very different than it is now. You'll never be able to control the culture around you. You can only control yourself and how much you allow it to affect you. It's futile to get angry about everything when it's beyond your control and you’ll never be able to change it. It’s written that society will be getting worse anyway, so while it is disheartening to think about, we have to be in check with our iman at all times. Nothing else in this world will suffice us except that. The best that you can do for the future is make sure your own children, your younger relatives, your friends, etc. don’t have to experience what you’ve experienced. But what is wrong with the world is something we all know and it’s harder to fix it than it is to point it out. We can only do our part.
    You are right sister. This will most probably get more difficult with time. Its just that I can see were the real problem lies and its solutions while most people insist on dismissing them. And that frustrates me a lot. Its like having a cure to a horrible disease but nobody is willing to spread it because it involves changing their lifestyle and norms … So sad. I once heard about a story of a sister who was a haafizah [ memorizer the entire Quran] who came to a sheikh seeking guidance on how to get an abortion because she fell into temptation … All because her parents didn’t accept any of the proposals she got cause they weren’t “suitable” or fitting to their standards. Look at how our parents and ummas is destroying the youth! :’( I know for a fact that iman is not enough to protect us from sin … but it seems like it’s the only options and weapon these youth have got against temptations these days … Allah al mosta’aan/المستعان (Allah is the one we seek help from). Sorry i got all worked up about this topic


    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    I do want to point out something. I agree with what you're saying especially if there are two people who want to be together and want to save themselves from the fitnah, but there is the other aspect from the opposite gender that you're not considering. I think one of the reasons it is difficult for young brothers to get married is because sisters at that age (who are generally younger than bros) are indeed too young to be thinking about accepting marriage. Say a bro is 18 years old and he wants to get married, what is the age of the girl he wants to marry? It would probably be a girl 18 or younger. We generally don't experience the same issues that bros experience with regards to urges, so quite easily up to the age of 22, most do not want to get married because they don't feel the need to or they have other aspirations at the time. I personally know that even when they get proposals at a younger age (say 16-18 years old) many of them will vocalize that they don't want to get married until they graduate for example, or unless there is a suitable proposal that they just can't say no to (the guy is mature, attractive, pious, financially stable). At 18 many guys are very immature and we know that. It's not always the parents/society, but what girls want as well. So this does force the younger bros to wait or work harder. This isn't always the case though, but most of the time it is. But yes if there are two individuals who want to get married, it should be easy for them too. I do admit that sisters have a lot of power to vocalize what they want though regardless of society's expectations.
    Actually, I am very conscious of this problem and I have faced it before xD. The only girl I ever showed interest towards and asked her about marriage, she informed me that she is not considering marriage for herself at this age … AKA I got rejected. My female family relative also had that mentality and caring about her career and what not. But later on when she actually did start working, she realized that its not really a nice thing to chase after your living compared to having a husband to do it for you (cause males are usually the expendable ones I guess :s). Regardless, I personally believe that this is a dangerous trend that has plagued our society (im not suggesting that women shouldn’t have the right to work or raise their academic status, but you will see why its dangerous soon). This mentality originally came from the third wave feminism who are not only trying to promote for equal rights but are also trying to advocate for women to become independent from men and abandon the family concept. This is all bred from that fact that in their countries women used to be oppressed. They weren’t allowed to voice their opinion with men, they weren’t allowed to work, vote, talk in churches and much more (this is nothing like our deen ofc). Problem is that they are not only trying to bring back the balance, they are actually trying to reverse it on men. Whats even worse is that this idea is starting to appeal to many of the young girls of our umma, and they don’t know how harmful this concept is

    The nature of men and women are very different. For men, our natural desire is to be providers or guardians over our families and wives, while for women its usually to nurture and care for her family and husband. {{ Quran 2:187 }} [ … They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them … ] So when the woman comes and become as good as men at providing for their families, the man will naturally feel emasculated as he is unable to provide something special for his family. That is why men usually find it undesirable to marry women with high status. (just like women don’t like to marry men with low status)

    So in the end, when the woman raises her social, financial and everything status, she will still be looking for the guy that provides even more than what she already has. And when that is more than what the average male has, how many men left do you think will have the status she is looking for? And vise versa for men. Reducing the circle of possible potential spouses is one of the things that is making it more difficult to marry. Hence why this trend or way of thinking is a very dangerous one.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tcghxvhS4U
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hbgBbIoUzc
    Again, I want to stress on that fact the there is nothing wrong with a woman being successful, but if she plans on becoming independent then she should consider keeping her standards and expectations of men the same and not to raise them as she raises her status. A perfect example of this is Khadija (RA) the wife of the prophet (PBUH) where she was a business woman and agreed to marry the Prophet who barely had anything to show for at that time.


    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    Would be much easier if the sisters just proposed, wouldn't it
    YES! Yes sister that would be much better! XD


    Quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    I have a question to ask you. Just a simple question. Say in the future more and more and more laws strip men his rights in marriage and say you combine it with Japanese way of marriage. How does Japanese way of marriage work? A man work his heart out and when he is married the wife takes 100% salary and he cannot hide from her, it is solid close sealed that she have access to all his wealth and he only get salary of $10.00 a month where he spends on himself and the rest of the money she spends it on herself, in her investment and the children and the husband is nothing more than a mule working. Would you still get married? Let us put it even further than that, in Japan the man is nothing more than a head figure only but the real leadership is the wife and the female in the household. It is a matriarchal setting and the husband is just a figurehead you put on the table as his head wobbles but the wife is the one the drive the bus. Would you still get married? Assume for argument sake you would not get married, would you die? You would go frail? Would you commit suicide? Would you go into killing spree? Would you suffocate because you are not married?

    If you do then please ignore the rest of this message and continue in your posts but if the answer is no then why are you so immanent to marriage exactly? Marriage is an endless ungrateful responsibilities and you are at fault of everything that goes wrong and don't think you will get a thanks for your effort and when you die you long will be forgotten. Why are you sell hill-bend in marriage is beyond me. A man in this day an age is a fool to getting married. I really don't understand these men's obsession of marriage is beyond me. Remember the more you need something the more you are putting yourself into weakness and the more the other person have the upper hand on you.
    With all respect brother, your way of thinking is the very outcome of the problems im trying to fight against. I know exactly what your talking about! I have seen how these modern countries strip men from everything they can show care for and trying to make it 100% female dominant.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXQf2f2Yxo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpYj0E-yb4

    But you cannot roll over and abandon the concept in general as this may turn you into a herbivore feminine man just like the ones in japan. Nor can u become a neomasculine/mgtow man who are is completely self-centered and have zero respect for women. Try to bare patience with these problems and fight it for your future generation. Even if you fail, at least you would say that you’ve tried. I mean .. think about it, what a stale boring life you would live without someone to share your happy moments with? your sad ones, successful ones, hardships, times of illness, all these and you would still choose to be alone? if you think you are strong enough to lead such a life then by all means go for it. I personally started to think about marriage when i was going through rough times and wanted someone to be there for me someone other than my male friends or family members ... someone that could be much closer than that. ... But keep making someone want something for too long, it will only remind them of the bad times they needed/wanted it most but didnt get it and all the pain that came at that time, then they start hating it even if they get it. im very close to this stage unfortunately.

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    Re: Is everyone on Islamicboard a salafi?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    You are right sister. This will most probably get more difficult with time. Its just that I can see were the real problem lies and its solutions while most people insist on dismissing them. And that frustrates me a lot. Its like having a cure to a horrible disease but nobody is willing to spread it because it involves changing their lifestyle and norms … So sad. I once heard about a story of a sister who was a haafizah [ memorizer the entire Quran] who came to a sheikh seeking guidance on how to get an abortion because she fell into temptation … All because her parents didn’t accept any of the proposals she got cause they weren’t “suitable” or fitting to their standards. Look at how our parents and ummas is destroying the youth! :’( I know for a fact that iman is not enough to protect us from sin … but it seems like it’s the only options and weapon these youth have got against temptations these days … Allah al mosta’aan/المستعان (Allah is the one we seek help from). Sorry i got all worked up about this topic




    Actually, I am very conscious of this problem and I have faced it before xD. The only girl I ever showed interest towards and asked her about marriage, she informed me that she is not considering marriage for herself at this age … AKA I got rejected. My female family relative also had that mentality and caring about her career and what not. But later on when she actually did start working, she realized that its not really a nice thing to chase after your living compared to having a husband to do it for you (cause males are usually the expendable ones I guess :s). Regardless, I personally believe that this is a dangerous trend that has plagued our society (im not suggesting that women shouldn’t have the right to work or raise their academic status, but you will see why its dangerous soon). This mentality originally came from the third wave feminism who are not only trying to promote for equal rights but are also trying to advocate for women to become independent from men and abandon the family concept. This is all bred from that fact that in their countries women used to be oppressed. They weren’t allowed to voice their opinion with men, they weren’t allowed to work, vote, talk in churches and much more (this is nothing like our deen ofc). Problem is that they are not only trying to bring back the balance, they are actually trying to reverse it on men. Whats even worse is that this idea is starting to appeal to many of the young girls of our umma, and they don’t know how harmful this concept is

    The nature of men and women are very different. For men, our natural desire is to be providers or guardians over our families and wives, while for women its usually to nurture and care for her family and husband. {{ Quran 2:187 }} [ … They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them … ] So when the woman comes and become as good as men at providing for their families, the man will naturally feel emasculated as he is unable to provide something special for his family. That is why men usually find it undesirable to marry women with high status. (just like women don’t like to marry men with low status)

    So in the end, when the woman raises her social, financial and everything status, she will still be looking for the guy that provides even more than what she already has. And when that is more than what the average male has, how many men left do you think will have the status she is looking for? And vise versa for men. Reducing the circle of possible potential spouses is one of the things that is making it more difficult to marry. Hence why this trend or way of thinking is a very dangerous one.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tcghxvhS4U
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hbgBbIoUzc
    Again, I want to stress on that fact the there is nothing wrong with a woman being successful, but if she plans on becoming independent then she should consider keeping her standards and expectations of men the same and not to raise them as she raises her status. A perfect example of this is Khadija (RA) the wife of the prophet (PBUH) where she was a business woman and agreed to marry the Prophet who barely had anything to show for at that time.




    YES! Yes sister that would be much better! XD




    With all respect brother, your way of thinking is the very outcome of the problems im trying to fight against. I know exactly what your talking about! I have seen how these modern countries strip men from everything they can show care for and trying to make it 100% female dominant.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXQf2f2Yxo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpYj0E-yb4

    But you cannot roll over and abandon the concept in general as this may turn you into a herbivore feminine man just like the ones in japan. Nor can u become a neomasculine/mgtow man who are is completely self-centered and have zero respect for women. Try to bare patience with these problems and fight it for your future generation. Even if you fail, at least you would say that you’ve tried. I mean .. think about it, what a stale boring life you would live without someone to share your happy moments with? your sad ones, successful ones, hardships, times of illness, all these and you would still choose to be alone? if you think you are strong enough to lead such a life then by all means go for it. I personally started to think about marriage when i was going through rough times and wanted someone to be there for me someone other than my male friends or family members ... someone that could be much closer than that. ... But keep making someone want something for too long, it will only remind them of the bad times they needed/wanted it most but didnt get it and all the pain that came at that time, then they start hating it even if they get it. im very close to this stage unfortunately.
    I need to clarify things that we men do that destroy us:

    A) Respect all women.
    ---Wrong!--- Why do all women deserve respect? No one deserves respect. Respect is earned and not giving immediately. In your sentence you are saying just because she is female she deserves respect. Just because she is female she deserve to have her door open for her. Just because she is female she deserve to have someone stop the car on the road and help her fix her car when it is broken down. Just because she is female and pregnant she deserve someone to stand up and give her a seat.

    I say no, no, no, no to all of that. As women have shown how strong and capable they are and no doubt they are capable and strong and even in many cases stronger than men, they don't deserve respect immediately just because they are female. They don't deserve to have the door open for them. They don't deserve to have someone help fix her car (if she have not prepared herself in case a car is down that is her fault not yours). If she is pregnant and is able to use the public transportation she stands up with the rest of the men and women who are forced to stand up in bosses and if it means her pregnant stomach hit people around her that is her issue not yours. Your aware that pregnant women go to the gym, play sports run and do physical activity. In fact it is best for her to stand up and do physical labor like the rest of us when she is pregnant it helps produce strong offspring, don't you think?

    B) Men who feel they are bored or have stagnant life thinking marriage will fix that and help remove any loneliness and feel important
    ---Wrong!--- You are aware what other problems you are facing now will not somehow magically fix itself after marriage. All your habits and issues and problems you have faced in your life alone will follow you in marriage but it would only magnify 100x time and add other problems you didn't have before marriage and in addition have to deal with HER problems as well and drama. If you love drama, if you think drama is what gives you that spark in life, then go for it. By the way don't think you will be moving away from her mother and father when you are married, you are marrying the family and so many men mistake the idea that ones they are married they own their wife. No you don't. I told my mom if I was going to get married I will take the daughter and put her aside. I am not interested in what she does at all, I am not interested in her habits or hobbies or her character or anything she is just a picture an illusion that men keep falling into. I am interested in her mother. If I am marrying any woman I am marrying her mother with a new body of the mother. 98% of the time the daughter is the duplicate of the mother from dress, attitude, character and how she deals with men in her lives. If the mother is matriarch, the daughter is always a matriarch. If the father have so little input in the house and raising the children, YOU WILL have little input in the house and raising the children. If the mother is evil in character, the DAUGHTER is evil in character. Not always but majority of the time the daughter is clone of the mother.

    You think by you marrying you will have this sunshine ramboo sky with flying unicorn and you get it all wrong.

    To clarify about Japanese men. You have misconception that the Japanese men are feminine you are wrong. Japanese men could not have being more masculine and they are terrifyingly scary, strong and masculine and they can kick you butt in ways you will only find them in action movies. They don't want to be patriarch anymore because patriarch in Japan means you are a mule while the women live a happy life a man is forced to work to death and not get even a thanks or benefit of being a working mule. So many Japanese men find women to be a hassle, a burden too much work, too much issues they prefer living a single life where they enjoy shopping, looking good, relaxing, living with their parents over age 30 and more where they are serviced, have food done for them, have a clean house and not deal with responsibilities. So many Japanese women are becoming aggressive, warrior, seeking careers and climbing up the ladder and they are content living alone and happy and not really interested in men. I don't see anything wrong with men not being a working mule, an ungrateful job that we have proven can be replaced by governments and other services so why should a man worry like before. Women have also shown they can go out there and be strong, well educated, get high end degree and make more money than men. I see no reason why should a man should burden himself with marriage as there are no more pressure for that and there shouldn't be a pressure for that. If you cannot find fulfillment alone and be happy alone even if it means not getting married for the rest of your life then you have bigger problems than that and marriage will not solve it, it will only add more issues and burdens than you can handle. In the end you will get divorced and then deal with divorce stress, such as alimony, she filing false allegation at you of rape or domestic violence and if you have children you will lose all custody of those children and you will be 8th class citizen when it comes to your right as a parent. SHE WILL use the children as weapon and turn them against you even in the most subtle way possible so no traces can reach her and you will be forced to pay child support for until the child reaches age 25 last I checked. I could be wrong in that one. My advice not to run and rush into marriage and solve your issues before then. You feel you have bored life go to therapy and talk out all your issues, if you have issues living alone fix those issues and pretend that one day women will go to the government and demand forced gender separation and a time will come where there is a wall that separate men and women...pretend it is like that. What will you do if that happen? Go flailing your arm in the arm and shrieking like a freak and kill yourself and kill other men around you or smack your head on the wall or weep like a little girl? You need to be able to live alone and be strong alone and not need one. Put all your trust on Allah (Subhanu Wa talaa) and need him only. THAT'S where you strength comes from, you get that and you will live truly a happy life.

    By the way, if you think nowadays your wife will be your backbone through thick and thin you are in deep illusion that need to wake up to reality. Remember, anytime you rely on your wife she will put it in the basket of favors that she will be using it against you. You have trouble only go to Allah (Subhaanu Wa talaa) not to your wife. You have closed chest, read Qura'an and do supplication. Do Dua. Get closer to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) only Allah listen to you, not humans. Only Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) will protect you and help you in your issues and not humans, not even your children. Women and children want from you and expect you to protect them and take care of them, they will resent it if you expect something from them. If you are getting married thinking she will take care of you and protect you then you get a rude awakening and another reason not to seek marriage until you understand what your expectations are and everything is cleared out to you.
    Last edited by xboxisdead; 02-23-2018 at 03:23 PM.

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