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  1. #1
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    Problems in society hindering Marriage (OP)


    Hahaha! Honestly, I don’t like this labeling at all, but if you must know I fit under the regular/average sunni muslim.

    I don’t follow any specific scholars or madhabs because I feel like they are all made up by human beings that are very well fallible. Add to that the element of misunderstanding and miscommunication and you get rulings and things that are very morphed and extreme ideologies. But thats not the worst part.

    The thing that annoys me the most is when modern scholars keep warning us about the haram things, yet neglect to give halal substitutes for that which is haram. Every time when a new technology or idea or concept that immerge, scholars are quick to deem it haram without proper investigation or substitutes for it. It just makes the world harder and harder to live in.

    The simplest example I can offer is to look at the problem of marriage and premarital relations. How many times have we seen new things that immerge which promotes and simplify premarital relations (i.e. porn, one night stands, dating apps, pickup artists)? And how many times have we got things from scholars and Islamic leaders that help the youth get married and encouraging it? When was the last time you’ve seen as scholar asking parents to lower their standards of potential spouses for their daughters? When have you seen the umma provide apps or methods for the young muslim girls to background check their potential spouses? When have you seen Islamic leaders help the muslim men with their mahr for marriage? And if there are, why aren’t these things being promoted just as much as the haram things and warnings about them are?

    Oh boy, I just went off on a rant there and didn’t realise … lol. Anyways … point im trying to make is that, I don’t follow any specific madhabs or scholars because I feel like most of them are disconnected from reality and dont provide reasonable or compatible solutions to our modern-day issues of the world. And how could they when they have disconnected themselves so much from the rest of the world and only surround themselves with pious people that don’t see 10 feet beyond their sphere of influence to where the true fitna lies (which is actually where most people live and reside)?
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  2. #41
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    Re: Is everyone on Islamicboard a salafi?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    I need to clarify things that we men do that destroy us:

    A) Respect all women.
    ---Wrong!--- Why do all women deserve respect? No one deserves respect. Respect is earned and not giving immediately. In your sentence you are saying just because she is female she deserves respect. Just because she is female she deserve to have her door open for her. Just because she is female she deserve to have someone stop the car on the road and help her fix her car when it is broken down. Just because she is female and pregnant she deserve someone to stand up and give her a seat.

    I say no, no, no, no to all of that. As women have shown how strong and capable they are and no doubt they are capable and strong and even in many cases stronger than men, they don't deserve respect immediately just because they are female. They don't deserve to have the door open for them. They don't deserve to have someone help fix her car (if she have not prepared herself in case a car is down that is her fault not yours). If she is pregnant and is able to use the public transportation she stands up with the rest of the men and women who are forced to stand up in bosses and if it means her pregnant stomach hit people around her that is her issue not yours. Your aware that pregnant women go to the gym, play sports run and do physical activity. In fact it is best for her to stand up and do physical labor like the rest of us when she is pregnant it helps produce strong offspring, don't you think?

    B) Men who feel they are bored or have stagnant life thinking marriage will fix that and help remove any loneliness and feel important
    ---Wrong!--- You are aware what other problems you are facing now will not somehow magically fix itself after marriage. All your habits and issues and problems you have faced in your life alone will follow you in marriage but it would only magnify 100x time and add other problems you didn't have before marriage and in addition have to deal with HER problems as well and drama. If you love drama, if you think drama is what gives you that spark in life, then go for it. By the way don't think you will be moving away from her mother and father when you are married, you are marrying the family and so many men mistake the idea that ones they are married they own their wife. No you don't. I told my mom if I was going to get married I will take the daughter and put her aside. I am not interested in what she does at all, I am not interested in her habits or hobbies or her character or anything she is just a picture an illusion that men keep falling into. I am interested in her mother. If I am marrying any woman I am marrying her mother with a new body of the mother. 98% of the time the daughter is the duplicate of the mother from dress, attitude, character and how she deals with men in her lives. If the mother is matriarch, the daughter is always a matriarch. If the father have so little input in the house and raising the children, YOU WILL have little input in the house and raising the children. If the mother is evil in character, the DAUGHTER is evil in character. Not always but majority of the time the daughter is clone of the mother.

    You think by you marrying you will have this sunshine ramboo sky with flying unicorn and you get it all wrong.

    To clarify about Japanese men. You have misconception that the Japanese men are feminine you are wrong. Japanese men could not have being more masculine and they are terrifyingly scary, strong and masculine and they can kick you butt in ways you will only find them in action movies. They don't want to be patriarch anymore because patriarch in Japan means you are a mule while the women live a happy life a man is forced to work to death and not get even a thanks or benefit of being a working mule. So many Japanese men find women to be a hassle, a burden too much work, too much issues they prefer living a single life where they enjoy shopping, looking good, relaxing, living with their parents over age 30 and more where they are serviced, have food done for them, have a clean house and not deal with responsibilities. So many Japanese women are becoming aggressive, warrior, seeking careers and climbing up the ladder and they are content living alone and happy and not really interested in men. I don't see anything wrong with men not being a working mule, an ungrateful job that we have proven can be replaced by governments and other services so why should a man worry like before. Women have also shown they can go out there and be strong, well educated, get high end degree and make more money than men. I see no reason why should a man should burden himself with marriage as there are no more pressure for that and there shouldn't be a pressure for that. If you cannot find fulfillment alone and be happy alone even if it means not getting married for the rest of your life then you have bigger problems than that and marriage will not solve it, it will only add more issues and burdens than you can handle. In the end you will get divorced and then deal with divorce stress, such as alimony, she filing false allegation at you of rape or domestic violence and if you have children you will lose all custody of those children and you will be 8th class citizen when it comes to your right as a parent. SHE WILL use the children as weapon and turn them against you even in the most subtle way possible so no traces can reach her and you will be forced to pay child support for until the child reaches age 25 last I checked. I could be wrong in that one. My advice not to run and rush into marriage and solve your issues before then. You feel you have bored life go to therapy and talk out all your issues, if you have issues living alone fix those issues and pretend that one day women will go to the government and demand forced gender separation and a time will come where there is a wall that separate men and women...pretend it is like that. What will you do if that happen? Go flailing your arm in the arm and shrieking like a freak and kill yourself and kill other men around you or smack your head on the wall or weep like a little girl? You need to be able to live alone and be strong alone and not need one. Put all your trust on Allah (Subhanu Wa talaa) and need him only. THAT'S where you strength comes from, you get that and you will live truly a happy life.

    By the way, if you think nowadays your wife will be your backbone through thick and thin you are in deep illusion that need to wake up to reality. Remember, anytime you rely on your wife she will put it in the basket of favors that she will be using it against you. You have trouble only go to Allah (Subhaanu Wa talaa) not to your wife. You have closed chest, read Qura'an and do supplication. Do Dua. Get closer to Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) only Allah listen to you, not humans. Only Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) will protect you and help you in your issues and not humans, not even your children. Women and children want from you and expect you to protect them and take care of them, they will resent it if you expect something from them. If you are getting married thinking she will take care of you and protect you then you get a rude awakening and another reason not to seek marriage until you understand what your expectations are and everything is cleared out to you.
    Im sorry but what is the point of this? If you think all women are dupes of their mum( which is very wrong btw) then don't get married. Don't come and sit here ranting about women because clearly some of the guys in this thread actually want to get married.

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  4. #42
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    That's a bit extreme what you said at the end, that he would think that way. I personally don't see anything wrong with it if it's done in a respectful way and I don't think there's anything against it as long as no fitnah is involved as outlined in the link I sent. You can make du'a but you still have to put the effort in making contact/proposing whether through yourself or through someone else like your mother, sister, etc.
    Assalamualaikum,

    sorry for bringing up this thread again. However, I have a question regarding this sister at my workplace.

    I just don't get enough courage to look at her, because it's not allowed for us to look at other gender. Lately we crossed our ways at work but I immediately lowered my gaze. So the issue is, I even don't know whether she is interested our not. When you would look or say salamalaikum, you would get some impression out of the reaction. But this is not possible. I am just to shy to look.

    Even I don't know nothing about her. Even I don't know how she exactly looks. But for some a reason, I have a feeling. Even I lower my gaze, it gets stronger. That's the problem, I don't know NOTHING, just a stranger to whom I never spoke before. Maybe my feeling is wrong.

    I mean let's say I find out her wali's number, he will think I am insane, I guess. Stranger calls stranger, to ask for hand of daughter. Of course I wouldn't propose marriage to her before I spoke to her in front of mahram, but this is so strange, it feels so uncommon, because I am not experienced in such things. I just fear the consequences of my behavior.

    What when I get rejected? People and she will think I am an idiot. I know, I shouldn't care about other people as long as I don't make Allah angry, but I'm still human.

    Opinons are welcomed.

  5. #43
    *charisma*'s Avatar
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Walaikum Asalaam,

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    So the issue is, I even don't know whether she is interested our not. When you would look or say salamalaikum, you would get some impression out of the reaction. But this is not possible. I am just to shy to look.
    This is not true. Her reaction would not indicate any interest in you, even if it is a positive one. You really will not be able to tell nor should you assume anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    I mean let's say I find out her wali's number, he will think I am insane, I guess. Stranger calls stranger, to ask for hand of daughter. Of course I wouldn't propose marriage to her before I spoke to her in front of mahram, but this is so strange, it feels so uncommon, because I am not experienced in such things. I just fear the consequences of my behavior.
    WHy would her father think you're insane?? How else do people get married there? If anything, a man who is able to do that on his own receives a lot of respect because it's not an easy thing to do but it's a very honorable thing to do. Most men can't even do it that way.

    I don't know what your culture is like, but you can have your father call her father, or your mother call her mother. It would even be better if there was a mutual person who knew your family and her family. The rest will happen on its own. Don't care too much about what anyone thinks. Honestly, no one really criticizes as you think they do. Marriage is a part of life. No one is experienced in it and it's always awkward. It's just a chance you have to take. Just because a girl rejects you doesn't mean anything about what she thinks of you. I've rejected many proposals and I never thought anything negatively about them, and most girls are like that as well. You can also always pray istikhara. But stop beating yourself about these little things. You gotta get over it and just try!
    Problems in society hindering Marriage

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

  6. #44
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    Walaikum Asalaam,



    This is not true. Her reaction would not indicate any interest in you, even if it is a positive one. You really will not be able to tell nor should you assume anything.
    Ok, you're right with that.


    WHy would her father think you're insane?? How else do people get married there? If anything, a man who is able to do that on his own receives a lot of respect because it's not an easy thing to do but it's a very honorable thing to do. Most men can't even do it that way.

    I don't know what your culture is like, but you can have your father call her father, or your mother call her mother. It would even be better if there was a mutual person who knew your family and her family. The rest will happen on its own. Don't care too much about what anyone thinks. Honestly, no one really criticizes as you think they do. Marriage is a part of life. No one is experienced in it and it's always awkward. It's just a chance you have to take. Just because a girl rejects you doesn't mean anything about what she thinks of you. I've rejected many proposals and I never thought anything negatively about them, and most girls are like that as well. You can also always pray istikhara. But stop beating yourself about these little things. You gotta get over it and just try!
    I think most people get married by they get introduced to someone. There is no one I know knows her family, as I told, she is just a sister at my workplace to whom I never talked to or saw before.

    We've a lot of brothers at work, may be I can ask whether they have an idea, how to get in touch with her. May be another sister at work can approach her and find out if she is married or is interested in getting married. I think that can work out. We've sisters at work that could be figuratively speaking my mother and I know even their son. Do you think it would be inappropriate to ask her whether she can find out anything about her?

    I think I will just try, more than a "no" I can not receive. People commit zina and have no shame in telling that, I try to do something with barakah and build a family inshaAllah.

    btw: Just being interested in her doesn't mean anything, I mean I don't know anything about her. So when I know her a little better and I think she is not the right person, I could still say no. But I think I fear this part most, rejecting people is harder than being rejected I guess.

    barakAllahu feek

    wasalama

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    We've a lot of brothers at work, may be I can ask whether they have an idea, how to get in touch with her. May be another sister at work can approach her and find out if she is married or is interested in getting married. I think that can work out. We've sisters at work that could be figuratively speaking my mother and I know even their son. Do you think it would be inappropriate to ask her whether she can find out anything about her?
    You could do that. You could also ask the son to ask his mom for you which would probably be better. I don't think it's inappropriate. It would be your best chance to know more about the girl without having to talk to her directly or put yourself in an awkward situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    btw: Just being interested in her doesn't mean anything, I mean I don't know anything about her. So when I know her a little better and I think she is not the right person, I could still say no. But I think I fear this part most, rejecting people is harder than being rejected I guess.
    Think of it this way, if she rejects you, at least you will now know that it wasn't meant to be and you can move on to try and find someone else. It will also be a learning experience for you. Not everyone we are interested in is destined for us. Always better to get rejected in the very beginning before anything is established, and you should never take it personally. I've rejected many proposals and more than often it had nothing to do with the guy himself. You can still be a great person, handsome, intelligent, etc. and still get rejected simply because it was just not meant to be and nothing to do with who you are as a person. You'd feel worse if she accepted you due to pressure and not because she was really interested in you, so embrace the truth and consider it as such rather than a rejection.
    Problems in society hindering Marriage

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    You could do that. You could also ask the son to ask his mom for you which would probably be better. I don't think it's inappropriate. It would be your best chance to know more about the girl without having to talk to her directly or put yourself in an awkward situation.
    Unfortunately, I don't see this brother anymore and have no opportunity to contact him. Otherwise, of course that would be the way I would go.

    Please speak some dua for me. Allah is all hearing.

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by new2010 View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't see this brother anymore and have no opportunity to contact him. Otherwise, of course that would be the way I would go.

    Please speak some dua for me. Allah is all hearing.
    Inshallah bro, may allah ease your affairs and grant you a wonderful wife ameen.
    Problems in society hindering Marriage

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

  11. #48
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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    This is a poor OP post.

    It is not the fault of the Ulama here at all. So not a wise decision to blame the ulama for our own short-comings.

    I do need to ask how often have you personally met the ulama and interacted with them? When I say that, it means to meet face to face and sitting down having a meal at times.

    Because through my own life, I have been around with Ulama that even compromised of graduate of Al Azhar (old schooler) and literally his friday sermons deal with contemporary issues. They have certainly made my life a lot easier even though I am not married at this level.

    The true fault is on the hands of the people that follow the society's norm and cultures. I know in and out of the society, when I say that I personally have been seen and came across the cases of dark side (not some but many). Often those who went down the wrong road end up blaming others, a point comes they even blame Allah rabul 'izza (ilyazbullah min zalik) some even hate themselves and end up committing suicide. Yes i know these cases as well.

    We live in a tough world now, where sins are easy. We have night-clubs in our own hands which is the smart-phones. When we can not even protect our own hearts from ill thoughts, then please do not expect some scholar to come over and insulate your heart from the poison that it hoards.

    Yes it is difficult to obtain from sins, but it is NOT impossible. There are people who I know live in high end societies where sins are easy to be get into, but they are well disconnected from the society's norm.

    The people of cave, who are mentioned in Surah Kahf, were not some poor class people. But they belonged to well respected families, but the norms of the society pushed them to leave and take refuge in a cave. I did not find anywhere in tafseer where these people of cave blamed the scholars for making life difficult. The state was such that if someone did not go by the society's norm (to be brief it was similar but bit worse than nowadays) they would treat the person badly.

    Isn't this the state nowadays?
    What is funny, when someone tells you the restrict use-age of mobile phones. We, ourselves, say 'How can we? its a necessity.' - Then end up using the wrong way, and then blame someone else for the reason of sin.

    When a Scholar advices you to block images on the internet by having image blocker, we say 'How can we? its a necessity.'
    When a Scholar even advices you to quit the job which we also know can end us up in sins, we say 'How can we? its a necessity.'
    ...etc etc

    I guess we do need to blame our own nafs, maybe it will knock something in our heads. When we point a finger, there are three fingers pointing back.
    Maybe if that Scholar which is being blamed here on this thread is the Nafs, then I re-tract my post and agree with you.

    We really do need to man up and accept the responsibilities. There is not a need to feel ashamed if we need to go against the today's norm such as leaving out technology or materialistic equipments.

    p.s I have also seen scholars who do not bother what others are up-to, because they know then they advice in modern terms we brush them aside. Its more of disrespecting them.

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by BurningHeart View Post
    This is a poor OP post.

    It is not the fault of the Ulama here at all. So not a wise decision to blame the ulama for our own short-comings.

    I do need to ask how often have you personally met the ulama and interacted with them? When I say that, it means to meet face to face and sitting down having a meal at times.

    Because through my own life, I have been around with Ulama that even compromised of graduate of Al Azhar (old schooler) and literally his friday sermons deal with contemporary issues. They have certainly made my life a lot easier even though I am not married at this level.

    The true fault is on the hands of the people that follow the society's norm and cultures. I know in and out of the society, when I say that I personally have been seen and came across the cases of dark side (not some but many). Often those who went down the wrong road end up blaming others, a point comes they even blame Allah rabul 'izza (ilyazbullah min zalik) some even hate themselves and end up committing suicide. Yes i know these cases as well.

    We live in a tough world now, where sins are easy. We have night-clubs in our own hands which is the smart-phones. When we can not even protect our own hearts from ill thoughts, then please do not expect some scholar to come over and insulate your heart from the poison that it hoards.

    Yes it is difficult to obtain from sins, but it is NOT impossible. There are people who I know live in high end societies where sins are easy to be get into, but they are well disconnected from the society's norm.

    The people of cave, who are mentioned in Surah Kahf, were not some poor class people. But they belonged to well respected families, but the norms of the society pushed them to leave and take refuge in a cave. I did not find anywhere in tafseer where these people of cave blamed the scholars for making life difficult. The state was such that if someone did not go by the society's norm (to be brief it was similar but bit worse than nowadays) they would treat the person badly.

    Isn't this the state nowadays?
    What is funny, when someone tells you the restrict use-age of mobile phones. We, ourselves, say 'How can we? its a necessity.' - Then end up using the wrong way, and then blame someone else for the reason of sin.

    When a Scholar advices you to block images on the internet by having image blocker, we say 'How can we? its a necessity.'
    When a Scholar even advices you to quit the job which we also know can end us up in sins, we say 'How can we? its a necessity.'
    ...etc etc

    I guess we do need to blame our own nafs, maybe it will knock something in our heads. When we point a finger, there are three fingers pointing back.
    Maybe if that Scholar which is being blamed here on this thread is the Nafs, then I re-tract my post and agree with you.

    We really do need to man up and accept the responsibilities. There is not a need to feel ashamed if we need to go against the today's norm such as leaving out technology or materialistic equipments.

    p.s I have also seen scholars who do not bother what others are up-to, because they know then they advice in modern terms we brush them aside. Its more of disrespecting them.
    Let me start off by saying i could be very well wrong here, but unless you show me where im mistake in my analogy, i will most likely not change my opinion about what i have said.

    Firstly, you said its our own short-comings, not the ulama. Lets apply this to reality (specifically the example about marriage and revolving around the norms of arab muslim culture).

    • Initially, a boy or girl grows up not learning anything about sexuality or sexual relations from a trusted source untill they hit puberty. By then, these teens have no prior tarbiya that properly addresses this topic an no discipline about it. They receive very little information about what and how they are suppose to handle those feelings just as they are transitioning into the rebelliousness phase. Then they do actually rebel against what they have been told thinking its not a big deal due to the shallow amount of info they got about it and eventually fall into sin. Boom! they automatically become blame worthy when the recipe in of itself obviously invites disaster. How is that a fair judgement?
    • And the ones that dont fall into sin. They are told that marriage is the only halal way to have a female partner or friend. But at the same time, they cant get it because it requires you to be able to support a family and be financially stable. So we look into that and we find that all the world including the arab and muslim regions have adopted the west's style of working and getting a job. First you have to get a high-school degree then college then masters ... We try to look into that and we find that to achieve all this will take at least 25 years to accomplish. Not only that, but the institutions where such titles are obtained are all filled with free mixing situations and what not. And in the end, the teen is still blamed for falling into sin when he is put into a situation which virtually make it impossible for him not to. Again, how is this a fair judgement? I know that some of you will say " well they should have done such and such to speed up the process and what not" but id ask ... Were do you expect these young kids who are full of energy to have the patients and mentality to think like that? We cant even trust them with their own lives, let alone expect them to have the mindset to think 10 or 20 years ahead?


    People consistently think that just by putting image blockers or such and such will help them not fall into sin. I personally believe that all these things are useless. Because the foundation of why these actions need to stop (in the hearts of many) are lost in the first place, and in other cases people are far too engulfed into these sinful action that its too hard for them to get out even after they gain the proper foundations that would otherwise help them not fall into sin. We think that just by providing little things like that, it would resolve everything when half of the other stuff is 1000 times worse and more effective. [for example: You imply that phones are one of the major gateways to fitna. I agree with you, but you also imply that we should not have them but people justify having them claiming its out of necessity. I hate to say it but they are right in that it is a necessity. You are the one who is belittling its importance. Major leaders of the arab world have allowed many of the system of the west to seep through into out culture such as the current educational and job systems yet they expect us not to use any of the nessesities that would require us to engage in these systems that grants us a living.] What im trying to say is ... Why expect us "the people" to not fall into sin when the leaders themselves allow western systems which promote the tools almost like the gates of sin into their lands? Why do we people get blamed for using it when its the only method to earn a living? Why do people get blamed for the failures of the leaders who do not provide a halal means to earn a living? ... And you know whats the funny part? i dont even blame the leaders cause their case is similar to most people. They get their knowledge from those who have it ... our scholars, who dont pass their knowledge in a correct way that wouldnt allow their knowledge to be misinterpreted. Nor do they focus on provide the masses with an effective and more halal alternative. Instead, they allow the muslim world to incorporate systems of the west that promotes things which also opens up the gates to sin, yet command us not to fall into these sins when its one button away from us while the halal is $10000 worth of mahr + walima + new apartment away ...

    You said there is no need to feel ashamed to turn our backs on the nerms of today, but id ask you this. Do you really think its about shame?
    Because i personally believe its much more than that. Its about how effective these norms are compared to the impractical requests of these scholar. At least when they pass a prohibition ruling on something, they should at lease suggest a halal alternative that is as practical as the one which has been prohibited. But no, we just like to make things 100 times more difficult for people then claim its their fault for not following the scholars. It just doesnt work like that.

    I just want to note that im not referring to those 500+ year old scholars like Imam Shafi or Imam Malik (RA). Im simply referring to the modern scholars who we barely hear anything about let alone know about their alternatives to the things they deem haram and forbid (that is if they came up with such alternatives in the first place). but im willing to wager that they haven't because if they have come up with something that is very effective and halal at the same time you would have seen it catch on where most of the muslim people would use it. Similar to anything that is effective and easy to use, just like portable communication devices, the internet, cars, school systems and much more. Im not saying these things are perfect cause they arent. But at least they solve major problems that would otherwise hinder our development as a nation.

    All in all, i think that its wrong to blame the entire umma for something that is completely out of their hand. They are brought into a world were the haram is almost a necessity to do, else they would fall and crumble to the point where they would become homeless or even worse, completely give up on their faith from all the hardship it causes them ... half of which arent even real ruling in islam but bad scholars would prohibit things just to avoid saying i dont know and not to fall into sin of permitting something that may be doubtful.

    Of course not all scholars are like that, nor are all modern scholars. And it would be wrong of me to claim that if i did (i hope that i didnt). Its just that, in my mind, the umma today is a perfect reflection of what the leaders and scholars produced, and what our ancestors have left behind. So again, no i do not believe it is the sole responsibility of the umma ... We shouldnt be afraid to question and look into the mistakes of our respected elders and improve over their achievements or rather, lack of, in this case. We need to change the path that we are being led through because its doesnt seem like it has any light in the end. And we aint gonna change if all the scholars and leaders do is blame us for trying to earn a living without providing a practical and halal alternative means for us.

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    @ChosenTCO

    Your echo of concern is worth a praise here.

    There are few things that need to be clarified tho, firstly isn't the first madrassa or house of tarbiya of a child is home? in other words their parents? The question is, do we blame the scholars in this regard for parents not sending their children for short time to learn about ethics, manners, deen and so forth? A scholar really can not force a parent to send their child their way or forcefully change the way of the parents who do not concern about deen. But they can inform as their job, and I guess they have been doing this for ages.

    Regarding the leadership and scholarship, it has remained a history until now that they both have conflicted at times but not always. Where at times of leaders have employed so called wrongful scholars to justify their actions while the true scholars have remained a minority and less voiced. Some examples are like of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal (rah), Imam Malik (rah), Imam Sufyan Thawree (rah) and so forth.

    I can understand your point on how Arab have gone off to do something similar, true scholars have continued to remained persecuted when they challenged the leaders of the time. Prime example would be of Egypt and Al Azhar coming under the government rule. While in the Central Asian region, after the downfall of Ottoman Khilafa, countries like Uzbekistan faced a backlash where true Scholars were persecuted and wrong ones came down to major posts. In the sub continent region, we can take the example of students of Shah Wali ullah Muhadith Dehlawi (rah) and the times of resistance of Scholars with the British rule. Similarly after Ottoman Khilafa went down, and Mustafa Kamal Ataturk came it was not long that he forcefully changed the mode of Adhan. Can not forget Omar Mukhtar (rah) and the Libyan resistance.

    But then, if we do look critically in this aspect. Who trusted these leaders while these true scholars were being persecuted? It was us people who did. And now we can understand why there is a sense of regret within us for having done this, it is the consequences we are facing for turning our face away from true scholars.

    I, personally, have grown up in Arab country with Arab friends around my life. Having seen through these things, there is a need to accept that the next Arab generation are careless about Islamic scholarship. Literally it is out of their head to even think if someone would want to learn the traditional islamic sciences (but not all). Usually the Arab mothers (of our previous generation and are alive) are religious, but they some are not doing their part in informing their children and doing the tarbiya. Last ramadan I spent in with my Arab friend, I was shocked that he informed me that many of those I knew were close to me in my school days are turning towards atheism. I did try personally to begin a halaqa to get the importance of deen going with friends, it was going well but it stopped, maybe when I will be spending the next ramadan I may insha-Allah try again.

    Certainly these technology advancements are important for the nation to grow. But that has to be used when it is time, and when it is not the time then we have to keep it away. When I speak of technology, I usually target things that are connected to Internet such as smart phones and laptops. I am not saying it is haraam to use them but they are strong tools to put the nafs into the wrong place.

    When we are using them wrongly, even if Scholars today inform it is haraam to watch wrong things and so forth. The scholar has done his part of informing, the next part is our job to stick away from it. I understand the situation is tough that we feel compelled to get into it, but that shows our own weakness towards the nafs and our lack of intelligence to act smartly to understand where one can manage to be save in managing to fall down the trap.

    Lets take an example, a scholar advised that whenever you are using your laptop or desktop then do it infront of everyone. And bi iznillah I am doing this, and things are on the safe end al hamdulillah. The question is, people just do not want to fight their nafs in acting upon these advice, it seems tough to do and why is that? because it hurts the nafs. Even I was advised to keep my mobile phones open, and to be used by anyone. And frankly speaking I have leave my mobile right in the hands of my mother if I am home so that can she look it up whenever she wants and see what is the history on there to keep a track.

    Initially it is tough, hurts the nafs but you got to put the willpower to get the grasp of it. People can put their sweat and blood to fulfil their wrong desires, why can we not at least put some sweat or at least the struggle to push ourselves to finding means to be on the safe side?

    Sorry I will stop here do not want to go really long. Not my last post, but I will try to just make this my last discussion on this forum.

    Just few questions if yo do not mind.

    Are you implying scholars advocate the idea of earning before marriage? I believe the scholars have already long said marriage is easy, but it is made hard by us people by including things that are not even necessary aren't they?

    can you give me an example where Scholars do not allow certain things but do not provide an halal alternative?

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    Re: Problems in society hindering Marriage

    لِقَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى: {فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ}.
    Narrated Anas bin Malik:

    A group of three men came to the houses of the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) asking how the Prophet (ﷺ) worshipped (Allah), and when they were informed about that, they considered their worship insufficient and said, "Where are we from the Prophet (ﷺ) as his past and future sins have been forgiven." Then one of them said, "I will offer the prayer throughout the night forever." The other said, "I will fast throughout the year and will not break my fast." The third said, "I will keep away from the women and will not marry forever." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came to them and said, "Are you the same people who said so-and-so? By Allah, I am more submissive to Allah and more afraid of Him than you; yet I fast and break my fast, I do sleep and I also marry women. So he who does not follow my tradition in religion, is not from me (not one of my followers).

    حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ أَبِي مَرْيَمَ، أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، أَخْبَرَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ أَبِي حُمَيْدٍ الطَّوِيلُ، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ أَنَسَ بْنَ مَالِكٍ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ يَقُولُ جَاءَ ثَلاَثَةُ رَهْطٍ إِلَى بُيُوتِ أَزْوَاجِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَسْأَلُونَ عَنْ عِبَادَةِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَلَمَّا أُخْبِرُوا كَأَنَّهُمْ تَقَالُّوهَا فَقَالُوا وَأَيْنَ نَحْنُ مِنَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَدْ غُفِرَ لَهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِهِ وَمَا تَأَخَّرَ‏.‏ قَالَ أَحَدُهُمْ أَمَّا أَنَا فَإِنِّي أُصَلِّي اللَّيْلَ أَبَدًا‏.‏ وَقَالَ آخَرُ أَنَا أَصُومُ الدَّهْرَ وَلاَ أُفْطِرُ‏.‏ وَقَالَ آخَرُ أَنَا أَعْتَزِلُ النِّسَاءَ فَلاَ أَتَزَوَّجُ أَبَدًا‏.‏ فَجَاءَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ ‏ "‏ أَنْتُمُ الَّذِينَ قُلْتُمْ كَذَا وَكَذَا أَمَا وَاللَّهِ إِنِّي لأَخْشَاكُمْ لِلَّهِ وَأَتْقَاكُمْ لَهُ، لَكِنِّي أَصُومُ وَأُفْطِرُ، وَأُصَلِّي وَأَرْقُدُ وَأَتَزَوَّجُ النِّسَاءَ، فَمَنْ رَغِبَ عَنْ سُنَّتِي فَلَيْسَ مِنِّي ‏"‏‏.‏
    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 5063
    In-book reference : : Vol. 7, Book 62, Hadith 1
    Problems in society hindering Marriage


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