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Is this marriage racism/racism?

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    SintoDinto's Avatar
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    Is this marriage racism/racism?

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    I was with my mother and a group of guests (a friend of my mother's, her husband, and a little girl who was their daughter.......the husband being there made and me being there made it a mixed gathering I know but what can you do.....they were all either much older or much younger than each other. ) I brought up the issue of marriage, since I only had two a half years until i would start courting (perhaps two years if i got accepted into honors college), and i said i wanted to marry an ahiska turk/meskhetian turk. they looked away in disgust, and said, "they're very koylu (village people) its not the girl, their families would never understand you. (im an autistic, sensitive, traumatized, mentally sensitive, intellectual and very religious (allahu alem) and according to people i know "well intentioned and honest and intelligent" allahu alem and humble (allahu alem)) and "they engage in the worst forms of immorality" "the vast majority of them are bad"
    "we tried so hard to change them" "they have no difference from the russians" etc. etc. and they said, "marry a good ____ or _____ (my own nationality or the native nationality i live in) and eventually i managed to convince them, (barely assured myself, cause later i realized how silly i was being) i would cautiously consider marrying someone from our jamaat who was of them, but prefer a different ethnic group. but now i look back and say "are they racists, or what?" "or are there actually differences among communities that make them incompatible even within the ummah of Islam"? what has your experience been with sectarianism?
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    Were you referring to a specific girl of that nationality that you know? If not, why were you so set on marrying someone only from that specific culture? Maybe that is what surprised your parents and family friends?


    As for your questions, muslims are muslims. Yes there are cultural differences, but being from a specific sub culture does not make them any less Muslim than you and your parents. That being said, I can understand why culture might make a poor match in some cases. (For instance, if you absolutely hate rice and marry a muslim from a culture that cooks everything with rice, well, you that might not make for happy dinner times!). But that obviously has no relation to being a "special type of muslim".
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Mandy View Post
    Were you referring to a specific girl of that nationality that you know? If not, why were you so set on marrying someone only from that specific culture? Maybe that is what surprised your parents and family friends?


    As for your questions, muslims are muslims. Yes there are cultural differences, but being from a specific sub culture does not make them any less Muslim than you and your parents. That being said, I can understand why culture might make a poor match in some cases. (For instance, if you absolutely hate rice and marry a muslim from a culture that cooks everything with rice, well, you that might not make for happy dinner times!). But that obviously has no relation to being a "special type of muslim".
    I had at least one girl in mind who my mother knew about who was from that nationality, yes. And a second one who I knew indirectly, but hardly knew anything about. I mentioned her to my mother, too. But I didn't bring them up in conversation. I mentioned the ethnicity in general. I don't why sister, perhaps it's because they have their own cultural center/masjid now (and the ones who support erdogan spy on the ones who support gulen so nobody comes to ours anymore, i hear they learned the internal spying back when they were opprressed by the communists, so now I feel like I am completely cut off from most of the girls so it adds a little mystery and keeps me chaste and pious because in the past i would have trouble controlling myself at the other cultural center which was originally for turks but now friday prayer is home to pakistanis, arabs, africans, etc. so ow i have a bad reputation) also not to mention the ethnic group has always been a little mysterious and i enjoyed their "village like nature" it made (some of the) men friendly and funny (but often rowdy or aggressively or toxically masculine) and the women feminine and hospitable. but yes, that is true race or ethnicity shouldn't matter. it's sad to hear that racism is so common among muslims (based on what i heard from others, not myself), and yes, i couldn't tolerate cultures that cooked bad food....ugh. but that shouldn't be a problem. i went over to two ahiska households and the food was delicious. (although im pretty sure i only hate heavily at one)

    EDIT: i also have a strong protective drive and a desire to help others, so the fact that they were oppressed by soviets and by the russians in the 90s and early 2000s and central asian governments just like the uighurs (also turkic) are by the communist chinese and they carry on some of that oppression (just like the uighurs, the women were forced to marry atheist communists so now they speak russian, in addition to because of indoctrination), and because many of them lack an education i feel pity for them
    EDIT: I also regularly see them at a shop to fix my mom' broken used cars that constantly break down
    EDIT: Plus not to mention if I had married someone of my own nationality, I would marry someone my own age, right after college but the ahiska turkish girls marry right after high school, so the age gap would keep a balance, although one of the girls isn't much younger than me but at least i would be able to marry her while she's in college
    Last edited by SintoDinto; 01-21-2019 at 03:39 AM.
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    Assalamualaikum.

    Racism is based on racial pride which people from one race believe that their race is superior toward other races. But i don't see this in your case. What I see is attitude of prejudice toward a community, which actually more common happen than racism case. It comes from attitude of suudzon (assume negatively) which is not a good attitude according Islamic view because it can lead to behaviour of slandering. That's why ulama remind us to always maintain attitude of khusnudzon (assume positively) toward other people.

    Okay, young brother. If you want to seek a wife from a community, just do it. Do not be affected by prejudice that you heard. But, it's better if you also learn more about custom and tradition in that community to prevent misunderstanding between you and people in that community.
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    I had at least one girl in mind who my mother knew about who was from that nationality, yes. And a second one who I knew indirectly, but hardly knew anything about. I mentioned her to my mother, too. But I didn't bring them up in conversation. I mentioned the ethnicity in general. I don't why sister, perhaps it's because they have their own cultural center/masjid now (and the ones who support erdogan spy on the ones who support gulen so nobody comes to ours anymore, i hear they learned the internal spying back when they were opprressed by the communists, so now I feel like I am completely cut off from most of the girls so it adds a little mystery and keeps me chaste and pious because in the past i would have trouble controlling myself at the other cultural center which was originally for turks but now friday prayer is home to pakistanis, arabs, africans, etc. so ow i have a bad reputation) also not to mention the ethnic group has always been a little mysterious and i enjoyed their "village like nature" it made (some of the) men friendly and funny (but often rowdy or aggressively or toxically masculine) and the women feminine and hospitable. but yes, that is true race or ethnicity shouldn't matter. it's sad to hear that racism is so common among muslims (based on what i heard from others, not myself), and yes, i couldn't tolerate cultures that cooked bad food....ugh. but that shouldn't be a problem. i went over to two ahiska households and the food was delicious. (although im pretty sure i only hate heavily at one)

    EDIT: i also have a strong protective drive and a desire to help others, so the fact that they were oppressed by soviets and by the russians in the 90s and early 2000s and central asian governments just like the uighurs (also turkic) are by the communist chinese and they carry on some of that oppression (just like the uighurs, the women were forced to marry atheist communists so now they speak russian, in addition to because of indoctrination), and because many of them lack an education i feel pity for them
    EDIT: I also regularly see them at a shop to fix my mom' broken used cars that constantly break down
    EDIT: Plus not to mention if I had married someone of my own nationality, I would marry someone my own age, right after college but the ahiska turkish girls marry right after high school, so the age gap would keep a balance, although one of the girls isn't much younger than me but at least i would be able to marry her while she's in college
    You seem to be extremely focused on the language they speak. That really should not mean much.
    By the way, the example I gave with the food was a trivial one just to illustrate that people can have preference and it will impact who would be a good match.


    One thing that I notice is that you seem to have a lot of contact with the girls from that culture. You seem to mention there are good reason for that, but just be aware that is something you should watch out for. Sometimes contact cannot be avoided, but be careful that this does not become a pattern.


    I hope you find the match for yourself.
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Mandy View Post
    You seem to be extremely focused on the language they speak. That really should not mean much.
    By the way, the example I gave with the food was a trivial one just to illustrate that people can have preference and it will impact who would be a good match.


    One thing that I notice is that you seem to have a lot of contact with the girls from that culture. You seem to mention there are good reason for that, but just be aware that is something you should watch out for. Sometimes contact cannot be avoided, but be careful that this does not become a pattern.


    I hope you find the match for yourself.
    yes, unfortunately talking with one of them caused me much (as expected by the shariah) heartache internally by constant worry, and not to mention I am a compulsive worrier. I made it a resolution not to talk to namahrams unnecessarily. Thank you, sister, I hope so, too. oh, my bad, I took the example with food too seriously.

    - - - Updated - - -

    format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto View Post
    Assalamualaikum.

    Racism is based on racial pride which people from one race believe that their race is superior toward other races. But i don't see this in your case. What I see is attitude of prejudice toward a community, which actually more common happen than racism case. It comes from attitude of suudzon (assume negatively) which is not a good attitude according Islamic view because it can lead to behaviour of slandering. That's why ulama remind us to always maintain attitude of khusnudzon (assume positively) toward other people.

    Okay, young brother. If you want to seek a wife from a community, just do it. Do not be affected by prejudice that you heard. But, it's better if you also learn more about custom and tradition in that community to prevent misunderstanding between you and people in that community.
    Got it. thank you, brother
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    "they're very koylu (village people)
    When I was young people around me wonder why I chose a typical village girl from outside the city as my (first) future wife?.

    I was big city guy with modern urban lifestyle. Coming from middle class family, and good looking too. It made me be guy who could easily get a girl in my city or my campus. But I was not interested to approach any of those city girls.

    One day I and my friend went outside the city and he introduced me to his female cousin who lived there. When I met that girl immediately I felt she was the girl who I was looking for. So I decided to choose her as my future wife. She accepted me. But later we didn’t get married because my mother and her mother didn’t approve it, and it made her hesitate to marry me.

    Many people in city look down on village people. They believe that village people are uneducated and have low intelligence. Many mothers in city believe that village girl is not worth for their son. Yes, my mother thought like this too.

    But village girls has something that rarely found among the big city girls, ….. an innocence. Innocence of a village girl makes her has inner beauty that can make a big city guy fall in love.

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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto View Post
    When I was young people around me wonder why I chose a typical village girl from outside the city as my (first) future wife?.

    I was big city guy with modern urban lifestyle. Coming from middle class family, and good looking too. It made me be guy who could easily get a girl in my city or my campus. But I was not interested to approach any of those city girls.

    One day I and my friend went outside the city and he introduced me to his female cousin who lived there. When I met that girl immediately I felt she was the girl who I was looking for. So I decided to choose her as my future wife. She accepted me. But later we didn’t get married because my mother and her mother didn’t approve it, and it made her hesitate to marry me.

    Many people in city look down on village people. They believe that village people are uneducated and have low intelligence. Many mothers in city believe that village girl is not worth for their son. Yes, my mother thought like this too.

    But village girls has something that rarely found among the big city girls, ….. an innocence. Innocence of a village girl makes her has inner beauty that can make a big city guy fall in love.

    awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww........you said it best
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    I was with my mother and a group of guests (a friend of my mother's, her husband, and a little girl who was their daughter.......the husband being there made and me being there made it a mixed gathering I know but what can you do.....they were all either much older or much younger than each other. ) I brought up the issue of marriage, since I only had two a half years until i would start courting (perhaps two years if i got accepted into honors college), and i said i wanted to marry an ahiska turk/meskhetian turk. they looked away in disgust, and said, "they're very koylu (village people) its not the girl, their families would never understand you. (im an autistic, sensitive, traumatized, mentally sensitive, intellectual and very religious (allahu alem) and according to people i know "well intentioned and honest and intelligent" allahu alem and humble (allahu alem)) and "they engage in the worst forms of immorality" "the vast majority of them are bad"
    "we tried so hard to change them" "they have no difference from the russians" etc. etc. and they said, "marry a good ____ or _____ (my own nationality or the native nationality i live in) and eventually i managed to convince them, (barely assured myself, cause later i realized how silly i was being) i would cautiously consider marrying someone from our jamaat who was of them, but prefer a different ethnic group. but now i look back and say "are they racists, or what?" "or are there actually differences among communities that make them incompatible even within the ummah of Islam"? what has your experience been with sectarianism?
    Sectarianism is a gate to jahannam.Whoever follows a sect has deviated.

    But as for wanting to marry a particular ethnicy, theres nothing bad at it if it is a self preference.Maybe you are very fond of blonde girls,or asians,so you want to marry an asian or north european convert.Nothing bad in it.

    But it very very bad and a source of fitnah when one looks to marry from a certain ethnicy group just because of tradition/culture/reasons that are far from islam.I am european,and i cant say i have had a real life proposal but others then me have done and were rejected immediately because her parents would never allow her to marry a white man,she has to marry someone from back home,or within the culture,so we end up with all these unhappy marriages or plain ones who just drag on.Instead of mixing with each other,we are creating more closed groups.In islam we have to know answer to two questions,are we happy with their religion?and character?.But no for us now the most important is where are they from and how much money they have.
    Anyway,it is racism? It is,if you make a white man feel descriminated and fearful of ever finding a wife because he is white than its worst than colonial times racism.People doing this are ignorants and fitnah spreaders.
    If i generalized am sorry.I dont have real life contacts with muslims and am talking for what the majority i have seen online thinks when it comes to marriage.Thats just my opinion anyway doesnt mean am right.
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    As for your questions, muslims are muslims. Yes there are cultural differences, but being from a specific sub culture does not make them any less Muslim than you and your parents. That being said, I can understand why culture might make a poor match in some cases.
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by MazharShafiq View Post
    As for your questions, muslims are muslims. Yes there are cultural differences, but being from a specific sub culture does not make them any less Muslim than you and your parents. That being said, I can understand why culture might make a poor match in some cases.
    @Mandy @MAZarSahfiq they are a Turkic people as are turks, and ahiska turks are similar to eastern antolian villagers. (anatolia is the heartland of turkey)
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    @Mandy @MAZarSahfiq they are a Turkic people as are turks, and ahiska turks are similar to eastern antolian villagers. (anatolia is the heartland of turkey)
    By what way do we look to you as a Turki?
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    Re: Is this marriage racism/racism?

    format_quote Originally Posted by MazharShafiq View Post
    By what way do we look to you as a Turki?
    sorry, my bad, brother, i mentioned it on here before, but i forgot to mention it on this thread.
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