In 2019, divorce laws in England and Wales are to be reformed so that the divorce process does not have to begin by one spouse making an allegation against the other spouse, to make the process quicker and reduce acrimony:
1440 years ago, no blame divorces were enshrined in Islamic law.
,"Currently in England and Wales, "no-fault" divorces can take a long time - with couples having to prove they have been living apart for at least one year in Scotland, and at least two years in the rest of the UK."
Islam freed us from such restrictions.
It is also said no blame divorces will reduce acrimony, and we were told 1440 years ago that even divorces are to be done with kindness, good treatment and manners, subhaanallah.
Last edited by Insaanah; 04-10-2019 at 10:13 PM.
Reason: Added a comma for clarity
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
Thanks for sharing, I never knew that no blame divorce was a part of Islamic law. I can see the sense that if a marriage has broken down, then it should end as kindly as possible. In today's world, even when you take away blame; I think the acrimony starts when it comes to dividing the assets; working out custody of the children and paying for childcare.
Sadly, I think the problem is not so much divorce, but the lack of importance we place on marriage. In the UK, about half of all fifteen year old children are not living with both their biological parents, this can't be the best way for children to grow up. We are almost encouraging people to look after themselves; rather than think of others; are we making it too easy to walk away from our responsibilities?
Sadly, I think the problem is not so much divorce, but the lack of importance we place on marriage. In the UK, about half of all fifteen year old children are not living with both their biological parents, this can't be the best way for children to grow up.
Interesting that nowadays we have to say "biological" parent as the word parent nowadays can apply to all and sundry, and any combination thereof!
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
where exactly? It sounds dangerous to have no blame divorces or having a divorce without reason which sounds un Islamic.
Soo...my understanding I am a man...working hard, making as much as possible..I have my limitations and faults...but I cannot please my wife and fulfill her ever needs and desires and wishes...she get bored of me...she find someone better looking, smarter, more attractive ...or even tired of how I smell or tired of my existence all together and want to be free....she can just divorce me just like that...take the house, children, and I have to pay alimony and child support and she can take 50 or more of my wealth?
That is Islamic law? I didn't know that. Show me. Show me where it says in ahadeth or Qura'an that a woman can divorce her husband at her whims and desires and take his house, his wealth and throw him in the street.
I want to see it. Please. Show me. I have to see it.
Phew...for a split second I was starting to have thoughts in my head that there is no marriage benefit for men in Islam either...but al-hamdolillah it is not the case.
"Praise be to Allaah.
If the husband is giving his wife her rights as prescribed in sharee’ah, then it is haraam for her to ask him for a divorce, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Any woman who asked for a divorce for no reason, the fragrance of Paradise is forbidden to her.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1187; Abu Dawood, 2226; Ibn Maajah, 2055; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood).
What is meant by the words “for no reason” is without any urgent situation which makes it hard for the marriage to continue.
If the wife is being harmed and the situation is too difficult for her because of the husband’s falling short in giving her her rights, or his withholding her rights from her, or because of his bad treatment and other similar reasons, then she has the right to ask for divorce, and she may refer to the qaadi and tell him what is happening, and he in turn can ask the husband to give her her rights or to divorce her.
If she has found out that he has some bad characteristics, he should not hasten to ask for a divorce, rather she has to be kind to him and advise him in the way that is best, and help him to change his character for the better. He acknowledges the way he is and has promised to change. This is a positive step on the husband’s part and it is the first step in dealing with the problem. The wife should help her husband to do good. If every wife wanted a divorce when he was quick to get angry or transmitted some words that were spoken between him and his wife, or other mistakes, there would be no household that was not broken up and its members scattered.
For more information see the answers to questions no 3758 and 12496.
And Allaah knows best."
Becareful women...you try to change the law of Allah or be happy you have the power and shoes to put your foot on the head of your men and step on his head and treat him worse than the slime and pig of the Earth you will find a huge shortage of men in the future for other women. Boys will change their nature and be heartless and laugh and clap their hands with joy when they hear or watch women crying in pain when they cannot find a husband. It may come a time where they may clap their hands in high five when men population will drop down to a critical level and there is an epidemic shortage of husbands or fathers just so you can enjoy this fake power you have over your husband or decide...meh....I am bored of him.
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
What about in my case? I'm sure you've read my story? I'm not perfect and we all know theres always two sides to a story. However I am of strong belief with conviction that my rights relating to Islamic values in a marriage context have been violated based on the values held by my 'then' wife. Although this is all decreed, look where I am now?. I say Alhamdulillah it could have been much worse but this journey I'm going through isn't easy and my future prospects of having a spouse raising God fearing children is looking very very bleak. Qadr of Allah? Most likely well 100% it is, off course it is, I keep telling myself. I refuse to give up in the first instance, I refuse to accept the possibility of a spouse appearing miraculously out of thin air and finding me or falling into my world into my life, in this world you have to be patient and you also have to do your bare minimum in terms of effort required of you to set a motion and leave the rest to Allah swt.
Asthagfirullah. Asthagfirullah wa athoobu ilayh... For all of us who sin. "Cause and effect". Nothing!, no consequence escapes us if we sin, not here in this dunya not even in the akhira. Everyone pays their dues so dont even try an be clever.
What about in my case? I'm sure you've read my story? I'm not perfect and we all know theres always two sides to a story. However I am of strong belief with conviction that my rights relating to Islamic values in a marriage context have been violated based on the values held by my 'then' wife. Although this is all decreed, look where I am now?. I say Alhamdulillah it could have been much worse but this journey I'm going through isn't easy and my future prospects of having a spouse raising God fearing children is looking very very bleak. Qadr of Allah? Most likely well 100% it is, off course it is, I keep telling myself. I refuse to give up in the first instance, I refuse to accept the possibility of a spouse appearing miraculously out of thin air and finding me or falling into my world into my life, in this world you have to be patient and you also have to do your bare minimum in terms of effort required of you to set a motion and leave the rest to Allah swt.
Asthagfirullah. Asthagfirullah wa athoobu ilayh... For all of us who sin. "Cause and effect". Nothing!, no consequence escapes us if we sin, not here in this dunya not even in the akhira. Everyone pays their dues so dont even try an be clever.
You was unfortunate to marry into a 'horrible' family. So the mum in law said you should pay your wife (who mostly lives at her parents) £250 a week for maintenance of your child.... lol they are just greedy money seekers ; not meaning to backbite but just showing they weren't the right family to marry into
Why don't u go to Bangladesh and get yourself a nice religious daughter of Maulana saab or something bro? That'll solve your problem!
You was unfortunate to marry into a 'horrible' family. So the mum in law said you should pay your wife (who mostly lives at her parents) £250 a week for maintenance of your child.... lol they are just greedy money seekers ; not meaning to backbite but just showing they weren't the right family to marry into
Why don't u go to Bangladesh and get yourself a nice religious daughter of Maulana saab or something bro? That'll solve your problem!
Nope £250 to the wife 'for the wife'. That's how arrogant they are, bet they dont even realise it. People think they can do anything and say anything. Their time will come. Pray Allah swt guides them, whatever it takes....
Trying to avoid the back home thing although getting married here is twice as hard. Whatever Allah wills. May even travel back to Bangladesh or some other country, hey, as long as she's devout Muslim, leave the rest to Allah swt. Need someone to meet my current circumstances however.
It's been one year since we seperated. Have not heard about a khula application still. Im in the middle of a case with the family court for access to child and its ongoing. Should get the court order this Sept inshallah. There is no civil UK marriage so just the Islamic one that needs sorting. Some people are saying (and it just hearsay at the moment) that women whilst in a married but seperated state are remarrying to guys that aren't really bothered about the 'Islamic marital status' of women. Is it still valid? In society now in general we see religious values being overlooked more and more now anyway so im not surprised despite having a pessimistic view on the world at the moment.
I know the wife has breached the Islamic marriage rules numerous times and can even prove it, she has even confessed to the imam. All I want is a dissolution and an amicable seperation with some gifts returned. Is the wife even bothered? What plans might they have up their sleeve I wonder? Who knows.
@Imran
sad to hear of your situation and I've heard of many bad cases of marriage in the UK (my cousins live in London). But from what I've heard, it's a much bigger problem with the British Pakistani community. Would you say that is true?
Anyway your post, like many other cases only add to my verdict that we need patriarchy back. It's the only thing that can stabilize society, bring back family values. Feminism has done nothing but destroy families.
@Imran
sad to hear of your situation and I've heard of many bad cases of marriage in the UK (my cousins live in London). But from what I've heard, it's a much bigger problem with the British Pakistani community. Would you say that is true?
Anyway your post, like many other cases only add to my verdict that we need patriarchy back. It's the only thing that can stabilize society, bring back family values. Feminism has done nothing but destroy families.
Salaam
@CuriousonTruth
this issue of divorce is like a disease, if it hasn't spread to a family 'yet' (where one can say respects others or is respectable family in it's own right) that upholds its religious values, its moral values to humanity and is God fearing, it is either on the cusp of it or eventually will encounter it somewhere down the line or has had its crisis averted. Just like any other calamity I suppose if speaking generally. As the population just keeps on growing, theres more kids, more kids turning into adults, more marriages thus some are being filtered through as successful, other marriages are being abandoned and then individuals either stay dormant for many years or they try again. In my view it's becoming dynamic. Its not a once in a lifetime opportunity anymore as our predecessors have percieved it for many centuries. it's becoming a 'try it and or keep trying until you succeed' type of life goal.
The British Pakistani population is much much larger than the British Bangladeshi population in the UK. In 2011 it was nearly 3 times bigger. So you can imagine. More people means more marriages means more chances of failure (pessimistic view). However proportionately speaking they could be similar on the basis that common ground may be found relating to the British or western values that have been instilled within the bengali and Pakistani community within the UK. The calamity is just as bad in either case whether you are bengali or Pakistani and the risks are the same based on variations of the core views and values held by each individual concerning marriage and its factors which sustain and make them successful.
Personally living in the UK and realising tradition is nearly dead and that society has evolved into something more liberal including equal rights for both men and women regardless of your upbringing or where you originate from, the only way to better humanity is to recognise fairness in the lands we live in, be just in our decision making and strictly follow our sunnah whilst trying to adapt it the most we can to modern society without compromising our core religious beliefs. For example equal rights. Yes women should not be oppressed nor should their rights be violated, equally mens rights should not be violated or oppressed either. Traditionally women were the losers here but we had successfully marriages and families. Women endured it for the sake of Allah and they will be compensated / rewarded for it duly. Islam forbids us to be cruel to our wife, issue is that the wife might not be helping the situation and putting her husband in a situation he doesn't want to be in. And vice versa. Another example is LGBT which is a big issue now. This goes against Islamic values and life in 'free speech' countries just got worse as they are trying to make it compulsory to teach that to kids regardless of whatever faith they follow. Almost as if they want to sensitise something from an early age. Anyway I think I've deviated from the topic.
Bottom line. Individuals need to practice being fair, follow Islam, fear Allah, keep humanity in mind, learn about a fair Islamic marriage, identify their own strengths weaknesses, identify what they are willing to compromise on, be open about their aspirations more. If both husband and wife do all this, then theres better understanding and more clarity in searching for middle ground. This eliminates assumptions and likelihood of any surprises. Just having manners and courtesy, being human is a good starting point. If we dont promote these qualities in people or younger generation we have got no chance. In an ideal world every single soul would try to be human and everyone would just get on. The possibility of that world gets more and more distant as times goes by.
Salaam @CuriousonTruth this issue of divorce is like a disease, if it hasn't spread to a family 'yet' (where one can say respects others or is respectable family in it's own right) that upholds its religious values, its moral values to humanity and is God fearing, it is either on the cusp of it or eventually will encounter it somewhere down the line or has had its crisis averted. Just like any other calamity I suppose if speaking generally. As the population just keeps on growing, theres more kids, more kids turning into adults, more marriages thus some are being filtered through as successful, other marriages are being abandoned and then individuals either stay dormant for many years or they try again. In my view it's becoming dynamic. Its not a once in a lifetime opportunity anymore as our predecessors have percieved it for many centuries. it's becoming a 'try it and or keep trying until you succeed' type of life goal.
The British Pakistani population is much much larger than the British Bangladeshi population in the UK. In 2011 it was nearly 3 times bigger. So you can imagine. More people means more marriages means more chances of failure (pessimistic view). However proportionately speaking they could be similar on the basis that common ground may be found relating to the British or western values that have been instilled within the bengali and Pakistani community within the UK. The calamity is just as bad in either case whether you are bengali or Pakistani and the risks are the same based on variations of the core views and values held by each individual concerning marriage and its factors which sustain and make them successful.
Personally living in the UK and realising tradition is nearly dead and that society has evolved into something more liberal including equal rights for both men and women regardless of your upbringing or where you originate from, the only way to better humanity is to recognise fairness in the lands we live in, be just in our decision making and strictly follow our sunnah whilst trying to adapt it the most we can to modern society without compromising our core religious beliefs. For example equal rights. Yes women should not be oppressed nor should their rights be violated, equally mens rights should not be violated or oppressed either. Traditionally women were the losers here but we had successfully marriages and families. Women endured it for the sake of Allah and they will be compensated / rewarded for it duly. Islam forbids us to be cruel to our wife, issue is that the wife might not be helping the situation and putting her husband in a situation he doesn't want to be in. And vice versa. Another example is LGBT which is a big issue now. This goes against Islamic values and life in 'free speech' countries just got worse as they are trying to make it compulsory to teach that to kids regardless of whatever faith they follow. Almost as if they want to sensitise something from an early age. Anyway I think I've deviated from the topic.
Bottom line. Individuals need to practice being fair, follow Islam, fear Allah, keep humanity in mind, learn about a fair Islamic marriage, identify their own strengths weaknesses, identify what they are willing to compromise on, be open about their aspirations more. If both husband and wife do all this, then theres better understanding and more clarity in searching for middle ground. This eliminates assumptions and likelihood of any surprises. Just having manners and courtesy, being human is a good starting point. If we dont promote these qualities in people or younger generation we have got no chance. In an ideal world every single soul would try to be human and everyone would just get on. The possibility of that world gets more and more distant as times goes by.
Thank you for your information.
But I think there are differences between bengali and Pakistan British culture and also ethnic differences, which cause differences in behaviour. I don't know how much we can discuss this openly but I've been told Pakistanis (including the girls) are more "adventerous" than Bengali or Somali ones. And also "trust" and risk of unfaithful marriage is a big issue in the Pakistani community.
Whereas in bengali community divorces are more linked to finances and economic situation.
So is it true? Btw to Pakistanis out there, I'm not trying to offend just find out the truth.
Nope £250 to the wife 'for the wife'. That's how arrogant they are, bet they dont even realise it. People think they can do anything and say anything. Their time will come. Pray Allah swt guides them, whatever it takes....
Trying to avoid the back home thing although getting married here is twice as hard. Whatever Allah wills. May even travel back to Bangladesh or some other country, hey, as long as she's devout Muslim, leave the rest to Allah swt. Need someone to meet my current circumstances however.
It's been one year since we seperated. Have not heard about a khula application still. Im in the middle of a case with the family court for access to child and its ongoing. Should get the court order this Sept inshallah. There is no civil UK marriage so just the Islamic one that needs sorting. Some people are saying (and it just hearsay at the moment) that women whilst in a married but seperated state are remarrying to guys that aren't really bothered about the 'Islamic marital status' of women. Is it still valid? In society now in general we see religious values being overlooked more and more now anyway so im not surprised despite having a pessimistic view on the world at the moment.
I know the wife has breached the Islamic marriage rules numerous times and can even prove it, she has even confessed to the imam. All I want is a dissolution and an amicable seperation with some gifts returned. Is the wife even bothered? What plans might they have up their sleeve I wonder? Who knows.
Nope, if the husband hasn't verbally given her 3 talaq (or signed court divorce papers) then wife won't be able to get married lawfully again as she will still be considered married to 1st husband. This is why if there is no hope of marraige working anymore then it's best to just give those 3 verbal talaqs to save 'wife' from sin.
However if husband doesn't give those talaqs in an unreasonable way then the wife can seek to get marraige annulled via an Islamic council and they can issue the divorce
It depends, I come from a strict background and community, people do 'slip up' but there is a 'moral standard' to adhere to.
Im disappointed with the OP, I know its not intended but we shouldn't encourage inadvertently the 'casualisation' of marriage. We know where it can lead.
Henry VIII never got a divorce. If so many people (especially the authors of history books) didn’t get this simple fact wrong, they would understand the state of marriage in Britain a lot better. Henry’s marriages to Katherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves were both annulled according to canon law. The Church of England, then and since, does not actually recognise divorce. Its 16th-century marriage service, still valid and in use, unambiguously requires man and wife to remain wedded until they are parted by death. It was willing, sometimes, to permit separations. Once again, many do not understand that divorce is not separation, but permission to remarry. That the Church would not give.
How things change. Now there is a Private Member’s Bill before the House of Commons, proposing “no-fault” divorce. It will probably vanish without trace mainly because, in all but name, we have no-fault divorce already; but (after a dreadful political tangle in the 1990s) it is easier to pretend we haven’t got it, and carry on as we are. This is the modern state’s approach to many problems, from drugs to people who use hand-held mobile phones while driving. In theory, it holds the line. In practice, it gives way. How did we get from there to here?
Civil marriage only came about in England in 1836, and when in 1854 civil divorce was first permitted on the grounds of adultery, the Bishop of St David’s grumbled (to the general derision usually reserved for accurate prophets) that this would eventually lead to cheap divorce in the county courts, available to all and sundry. He was already halfway to being right by the end of the 19th century. Readers of Hardy’s Jude the Obscure will find, perhaps to their surprise, that even by then civil divorce was no great matter, and readily available to a stonemason and a schoolteacher if their spouses agreed to it. Hardy’s description of the ghastly scenes in a Reading register office also shows that civil marriage was already a popular thing, not necessarily entered into “discreetly, soberly and in the fear of God”, as the Prayer Book prescribes.
The tension between the two forms of marriage grew and grew. World War I, that great wrecker of custom and tradition, destroyed many thousands of marriages by killing the husband, and introduced many women to the supposed “independence” of wage slavery – which is actually a different kind of dependence, based on cash and work, demanding and giving less than the marriage oath. Civil divorce became easier and easier throughout the inter-war period, though Parliament banned dissolutions until a marriage had lasted at least three years. World War II produced its own bitter harvest of bereavement, ruined marriages and female wage slavery, but for a strange, precarious few years many sought to re-establish the stability of the time before the war.
Maybe it would have held, but the contraceptive revolution made sure it did not. Amazingly few people realise, even now, that the invention and promotion of the female contraceptive pill was politically motivated. The fanatic Margaret Sanger and her super-rich backer Katharine McCormick both understood that it would change forever the relations between the sexes, and wanted this to happen. Their success was the background to the Harold Wilson government’s biggest single social reform, the Divorce Law Reform Act of 1968-69. The harsh, rather coarse old bargain – under which women granted their favours to men only in return for marriage – could not long survive the arrival of the Pill. This allowed women (if they wished) to bestow those favours without any consequences, probably the single most revolutionary application of science in all its history. The old rules began to seem futile. And large numbers of men and women, refused divorce by their spouses, could no longer see why the law sided against them.
The Church of England’s collapse in the face of sexual revolution was astonishingly swift. In the early 1950s – soon after an attempt to weaken the law, by Mrs Eirene White MP, had failed – Canterbury was stern. Geoffrey Fisher, then Archbishop, affirmed in 1954 that lifelong marriage was “divine law”. He wrote: ‘‘Nothing but lifelong monogamous marriage can adequately establish home life, provide for the birth and nurture and training of a family of children.” He predicted that easier divorce would distort ideals, foster lawlessness, encourage self-will, weaken the sense of obligation, provide a cloak of respectability to sin and offer children a precedent for divorce when they grew up.
The culture of the Pill put paid to that attitude. One often gets the impression, studying this period, that someone had put something in the water, so totally and quickly did everything change. But the Pill is probably the reason. Within 12 years, in a document rather gruesomely entitled “Putting Asunder”, Anglican bishops did what Henry VIII would never have done, and justified divorce. The document endorsed the newly fashionable idea that “breakdown of marriage” should replace the old arrangement that required one side to show the other was at fault. And it understood clearly what this meant – that a husband or wife could end up divorced against his or her will.
To people attempting to uphold their marriage vows and their faith, the Cof E could only say: “The sense that it is harsh persists and we cannot claim to have found how to dispel that sense entirely. The fact of the matter is, we believe, that when a marriage comes to grief, wounding cannot be avoided.”
Here was a world turned upside down. In 1954, the same Church had acknowledged that pain might be the necessary price of steadfastness, asking: “Whoever succeeded in raising the moral tone of any society without causing the frustration of some natural desires, and the hardship of having to forgo them?” Who indeed?
And so “irretrievable breakdown” became the true basis of divorce. After five years, such breakdown means the state can simply cancel the matrimonial oath, and if needs be, drag an unwilling spouse from the home under the threat of prison. I think this is unique in English law – the state actively siding with the breaker of a contract against the person who wants to keep it. Knowing this, those caught in the divorce trap realise that resistance is futile. Many divorces still technically involve claims of desertion, unreasonable behaviour or adultery. But the doctrine of “irretrievable breakdown” stands behind every such case.
In a fashion, it is amazing that civil marriage survives at all. The future Lady Justice Hale of the Supreme Court speculated as long ago as 1982 that important legal differences between marriage and cohabitation were increasingly hard to find. Divorce is diminishing mainly because people don’t get married in the first place. But it is even more amazing that the Church of England collapsed so easily on this enormous issue, while engaging in titanic struggles over comparative trivia, such as the sex of priests or same-sex marriage.
But had it stood against the change, could it have fought successfully to save it? Or have we already passed the point at which Christian bodies can seek to influence post-Christian societies? And if this is so, should such bodies simply stop assuming that either state or culture are on their side, or ever will be again, and recast themselves as centres of revolutionary dissent?
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happymuslim liked this post
; not meaning to backbite but just showing they weren't the right family to marry into
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