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  1. #1
    adil1992's Avatar
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    Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

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    Salaam,

    Hope every in this forum is well and if I have said anything that contradicts the the Qur'an and Sunnah then please do forgive me.

    I wanted to raise a question to forum members in regards to a situation out of control in the current world we live in.

    Triple Talaq in one sitting is a heavily contested issue which has two Islamic opinions. On one hand you have the view the three divorces in one sitting is irrevocable and the marriage void, the other is it counts as 1 or even depends on level of anger to be considered a divorce or not.

    The issue is that both sides in this day and age are trying to debunk each other. Now i am not no scholar or expert in this is just my opinion, but both sides have compelling evidence to prove their points. So my question to everyone is, doesn't it come down to intention ?. There's authentic hadiths that prove the prophet sometimes did consider three divorces in one sitting as 1 but also there's proof that he also accepted if the person intentions were of three divorces. Intention plays a big part in islam so doesn't it come down to this. Both parties agree that anyone who says it three time in one sitting is a sinner and must repent.

    There's a very famous hadith where the prophet says three things are taken seriously or in jest - Marriage, Divorce and taking a wife back. Because of this hadith many scholars belive that words are taken seriously and held into effect, hence why people accept three divorces in one as three. However at the same time many scholars of the past and present muftis and sheikhs state that pre planned marriage for the wrong intentions is void- for example if a husband divorces his wife three times and she's becomes a stranger to him, then the wife knowingly marries a stranger and consumates the marriage and then "husband" issues a divorce so she can go back to her husband. It's widely known that these marriages are void and the couple will be committing zina so why Isit that many scholars don't accept this type marriage at all due to the wrong intentions of both parties but they accept that 3 divorces in one sitting are 3 even when the husbands intention wasn't to issue 3 divorces.

    Surely we must work to save marriages, and don't get me wrong, if a person says talaq however times in one sitting but three separate times then that is definetly a divorce and marriage is void.

    The Qur'an maintains that people must have time to reconcile after issues of each divorce so accepting three divorces in one sitting is going against that even when individuals insist that was not there intention.

    A famous hadith that says ibn abbas stated that during the prophet times 3 divorces in one sitting was counted as 1, also during abu bakr and it was the same during the first two years of umars caliphe. Umar then enforced it on the men who were abusing the divorce system. A famous Islamic historian (apologies i can't remeber the name) said the reason for this descion was because of the rapid spread of Islam, new ladies were migrating into Muslim land and the men wanted to marry then but the women insisted that they issue a divorce to their wife before marrying them. The men then issue it one sitting but take advantage of the Islamic divorce system and go back on their word stating they didn't mean an irrevocable divorce because they had some leeway in this situation. Many are of the view that say umar created this rule are wrongly mistaken, how can one of the most trusted shahabah create such as innovation so it's clear in the prophet time he also accepted 3 divorces in one sitting as three but at the same time, as mentioned earlier he gave Indivduals the benefit of the doubt and allowed them to back to their wives if it wasn't their intention. It's evident that because people had leeway in divorces that the completely abused the system therefore Umar enforced their words upon them. His goal for this was for prevention of this happening again and so the men learn from their mistakes and people learn from others. However, you can argue that this was a legal ruling and not a permanent sharia, just as umar did of the whipping of drunks. One must consider that his actions were all about preventention and therefore the following has to be taken into account. During the calpih of Umar, the ummah was united (much more than now) and divorced women wernt treated as such a taboo as they are now. If during the ruling Umar, the social situation was what we are seeing now then his approach could of been different (there's no way to know), meaning that the rule he enforced was temporary and based on the situation in that time.

    In this current climate, a man gets angry and divorces his wife in one sitting and then they divorce and the women is not supported and very rarely finds a good marriage to go into because of the tabbo of divorce in our society, this applies even more to women with kids. Also the Islamic world is completely different as it was during the ruling of Umar, the ummah then was United and if umar enforced a law then they would follow that as the benefit of a caliphate of Islam. Nowadays we don't have such a thing, there are so many differences of opinion, many different legal matters,Many different islamic states who hold different views So it's only write that the ruling of Umar was only supposed to applied for such a time and therefore we have to back to the sharia way of divorce.

    Going back to sharia way of divorce will ensure that Indivduals who make the same mistake three times in separate occasions will be divorced.

    When you look at how marriage is described in the Qur'an and by the prophet, do we really think that Allah who is the most forgiven will allow a man and women to be divorced completely for the 1-2 seconds of madness/stupidity of the husband. This ruling is extremely harsh and not in line with the Sharia.

    As for the madhabs view on this, it's correct to say that if Umar agreed upon this way of divorce and enforcing the words on the men and the rest of the shababa agreed, then the madhabs followed their lead. Abu hanifah was the closest to the shahab so he naturally of gone with the view they held. My point is that should this be made permanent because that was the agreed Islamic ruling of that time and not going in line with what the prophet said and what the Qur'an states ?

    All views welcome on this subject. Please note that this is no way a debate,I am just writing this so we can all discuss and learn from each other. Please respect each other's opinion.

    Allah knows best.

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    Talaq in anger | IslamQA
    Talaq in anger...
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 07-04-2019 at 09:40 PM.

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    adil1992's Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    Jzk for your response. I know the hanafi view But wanted an open discussion on this topic. Both sides have compelling evidence https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...62364240110941


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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    I think we just have to stick to the opinions of our respective madhabs

    However regarding 3 talaqs in one go constituting irrevocable divorce, iirc I read that there is a consensus on this from the madhabi/ashari/maturidi POV

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    adil1992's Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    Salaam Ahmed, can you explain more on the point about consensus ?

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by adil1992 View Post
    Salaam Ahmed, can you explain more on the point about consensus ?
    A consensus basically means all or all but a few Scholars agree on it. It also implies that the minority view has been refuted and is not considered a valid view, this is from the four madhabs perspective. Salafi's differ on what there is a consensus on or not

    See
    https://www.deoband.org/2013/05/fiqh...ounted-as-one/
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 07-05-2019 at 06:23 PM.

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    Supernova's Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    Asalaamualaykum:

    The bottom line is both opinions exist. Each side has their evidence.

    The first thing I want to bring forth is the intention issue. This is pointless mentioning in this discussion because BOTH sides do consider intent. Had one side not, then it would be worth mentioning but its not relevant now as both sides take that into account.

    Secondly, whatever upbringing and understanding a person is first introduced is the most likely ruling that person will follow.

    THE REAL ISSUE

    The real issue here is that when these Talaqs take place, each party has a different understanding on both the method and process.

    The only way resolve this is that before the Nikah, each party(Individuals and Family) needs to discuss that should the unfortunate event arise of a Talaq, which opinion will we settle on. If the individuals or parties cannot come to an agreement, then it is pointless even making Nikah. Nikah is technically a contract.

    Would any sane person enter into a contract with no release clause ?

    So if both individuals/ parties cannot agree on a method of Talaq, then anyone with a brain on their shoulders would know that the Nikah is pointless. If you research this issue and speak to people who have had this misfortune of experiencing this, then you would understand that all the above that I have mentioned is the REAL problem at hand.
    Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    Dark Side Of The Moon

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    adil1992's Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    Jzk for your response.

    I'm regards to my point about intention I was mainly talking about three =1 or three =3 so apologies if it came across as something else.

    What you said makes perfect sense, before every contract you sign in life there's get out of contract stipulations on how to end the agreement. I guess when individuals get married the last thing they think about is divorce so if the husband does hold the view of 3=1 and the wife holds the view of 3=3 then it causes massive differences.

    In a case where a husband and wife do have a difference of opinion, it's hard to see how they can find a mutual understanding on this subject. In the UK you have sharia councils which take all views into consideration before issuing their verdict

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    Physicist's Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    If one have seriously decided to divorce, he/she don't intends to marry the same person again.

    The reason behind irrevocability after 3 is to remove burden of multiple marry/divorce games in arguing couples. 3 attempts were given to let them settle their arguments and learn to be more responsible.
    Youngsters without previous experience may make some hotheaded decisions and be very sorry afterwards.

    When practice of triple irrevocable divorce becoming common, normal 1-talaq divorce being perceived as a manipulative game, not a serious divorce. So, being blamed for it, person may choose to make 3-talaq just to save the face even if initially it was just a game to teach the spouse.

    What a terrible situation for a loving couple, when because of some argument wife will have to consummate marriage with another man to reunite with her husband again.
    Last edited by Physicist; 07-07-2019 at 12:31 AM.

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    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Three Divorces in one sitting Issue

    The process of talaaq has been described clearly in the Quran by the Creator and Sustainer of the heavens and the earth Himself.

    If there is uncertainty regarding the waiting period - it is extended to three months.


    Reading the hadith on the man who made a single sitting multiple pronouncement clearly shows that the Prophet saw that there was no possibility of reconciliation and used his discretion as a wise leader and separated them.


    This use of discretion is seen when he gave the poor man who had made a fault during ramadan the dates of sadaqah and even let him keep them for his own family after the man said that he couldn't afford to feed the prescribed poor people or fast for two months consecutively - and the final decision will still rest with Allah as to whether He will forgive or punish - since the messenger's job is to convey the message of Allah , to make islaah to the best of his ability, and keep people within the fold as much as possible, whereas Allah has made clear that swearing to the Prophet and the believers in order to please them is not effective if Allah Himself is displeased, and that Allah ultimately decides whether to forgive or to punish.

    At-Taubah 9:96

    يَحْلِفُونَ لَكُمْ لِتَرْضَوْا۟ عَنْهُمْۖ فَإِن تَرْضَوْا۟ عَنْهُمْ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يَرْضَىٰ عَنِ ٱلْقَوْمِ ٱلْفَٰسِقِينَ

    English - Yusuf Ali

    They will swear unto you, that ye may be pleased with them but if ye are pleased with them, Allah is not pleased with those who disobey.

    English - Sahih International

    They swear to you so that you might be satisfied with them. But if you should be satisfied with them - indeed, Allah is not satisfied with a defiantly disobedient people.

    get Quran App:https://goo.gl/w6rESk

    Al-Fath 48:11

    سَيَقُولُ لَكَ ٱلْمُخَلَّفُونَ مِنَ ٱلْأَعْرَابِ شَغَلَتْنَآ أَمْوَٰلُنَا وَأَهْلُونَا فَٱسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَاۚ يَقُولُونَ بِأَلْسِنَتِهِم مَّا لَيْسَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمْۚ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ لَكُم مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ شَيْـًٔا إِنْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ ضَرًّا أَوْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ نَفْعًۢاۚ بَلْ كَانَ ٱللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًۢا

    English - Yusuf Ali

    The desert Arabs who lagged behind will say to thee: "We were engaged in (looking after) our flocks and herds, and our families: do thou then ask forgiveness for us." They say with their tongues what is not in their hearts.
    Say: "Who then has any power at all (to intervene) on your behalf with Allah, if His Will is to give you some loss or to give you some profit? But Allah is well acquainted with all that ye do.

    English - Sahih International

    Those who remained behind of the bedouins will say to you, "Our properties and our families occupied us, so ask forgiveness for us." They say with their tongues what is not within their hearts. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He intended for you harm or intended for you benefit? Rather, ever is Allah, with what you do, Acquainted.

    get Quran App:https://goo.gl/w6rESk


    The use of discretion can also be seen when the hypocrite leader gathered his band of rabble and held the Prophet's cloak on behalf of the treacherous banu Qainuqah and there was fear of a larger fitnah amongst the Muslims.


    If we look carefully, i believe we can see that the Prophet came to the conclusion that there was no benefit but rather additional harm in keeping them together, and that he effected separation according to specific circumstances, and that the allowance of triple talaq in one sitting is NOT an expansive ruling - but teaches the judges to use discretion after considering individual circumstances.

    And Allah knows best.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 07-07-2019 at 08:15 AM.
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