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View Poll Results: Who is more at fault?

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25. Login to vote on this poll
  • Scandalous dressers

    4 16.00%
  • Sinister Eyes ffended:

    1 4.00%
  • Both

    20 80.00%
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  1. #1
    Array Noor's Avatar
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    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault? (OP)




    In institutions outside the comfort of a home, male and female interaction is contact which every Muslim finds difficulty overcoming. Sparked by comments made in the ‘What school/college do you go to?’ I decided to start this thread for the purpose of clarification concerning approach/feelings offered by members of the opposite gender.

    The predicament? Let’s use the presence/interaction of males and females attending school in a non-Muslim environment. People from all walks of life go to such institutions as do many Muslim youth/adults. We are bound to confront issues which challenge our faith such as dress code and relations between the sexes.

    Now, brothers and sisters, here is what’s most important. Who is more at fault? The one who wears clothing that can be described as scandalous? Or, are the stares of immoral eyes more damaging?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
    Salaam.
    Well maybe if bits were not being shown off, men would easier to be able to lower their gaze a little. Don't use it as a hit-back, you got to cover up. Regardless whether anyone looks at you or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    Besides that, whether a girl (muslim or non) is not covered up, all that's ur business is to lower ur gaze and make dua for her guidance, but instead u all choose to stare at her and then comment. If you are able to give out a detailed comment, then brothers uve been staring too long.
    So, some of you may say, what’s the point to this thread?…obviously is a collective action that is destroying our souls and schools, what are you getting at? To those of you who are thinking this way, I dare to allow your mind to think critically.

    Quote Originally Posted by solid_snake View Post
    it's not only the clothes, the way they talk and act with guys, and while guys walk by them they sure as hell don't lower their gaze.
    Must we allow this type of thinking to further occur?


    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

  2. #21
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

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    Although the word fault can be mistaken for blame, my goal was not to point out who is to blame...rather, the target of this thread is to realize that one party has more responsibility.

    Tu comprend?
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Salaam.

    So let me get this straight. God said that one of these two has to really obey Him, and take more responsibility.

    The man who should lower his gaze, and the woman who should dress properly. You're trying to say that God's command here is more over the man. Right?

    Wait now let me guess. That's not right. God gave both man and woman equal responsibility ofcourse. He must've. God is fair. Now men think women need to stop dressing like that. Women think men need to keep their eyes lowered.

    It's an equal responsibility. Both parties need to do their part. Women are disobeying God directly if they don't cover up. A man will be disobeying God if he gives the woman a second glance. If the woman is dressed properly, there would be no second glance.

    By the way, you do know BigMac had some cases filed against them for making some people fat? I blame the burger makers. You can blame the fat guy. Enough said.
    Last edited by Z; 01-26-2006 at 06:50 AM.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Got a question, or got something in general to say or ask me, drop me a line. Peace out!

    - Z.

  5. #23
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Assalamu alaikum,

    I believe Noor is trying to point out the problems in society and that somehow men are at fault in how they deal with non-Muslim women.

    It doesn't mean that she's being biased. She's just presenting one side of an argument.

    And Allah ordered both men and women to lower their gazes and dress appropriately, how often do people take heed to both?

    Wa 'alaikum salam.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    'There are two blessings that many people fail to make the most of: good health and free time.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)

  6. #24
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
    Salaam.
    So let me get this straight. God said that one of these two has to really obey Him, and take more responsibility. The man who should lower his gaze, and the woman who should dress properly. You're trying to say that God's command here is more over the man. Right?

    I don't know the heck you just said brother Z^^^, but what I can tell you is this.

    WaAlaikumSalaam

    Many times, brothers without any effort have no problem in finding the weakness in the female character. What I'm challenging you to think about is that, are these brothers entitled to piont fingers at their sisters immoral acts and at the same time, act in the same manner they are condemming with other females?

    The actions of the male is more signficant than those of the opposite gender. And the very fact that most of the brothers adapt to the 'hey, why is she dressing like that?' attitude speaks mountains.
    Last edited by Noor; 01-26-2006 at 06:50 AM.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Salaam.

    I totally get what you/she is trying to say.

    I guess both side of the arguments have been said in my edited previous post. Both parties are to blame. Both need to do their parts. Men need to stop pointing their fingers at women. Women need to stop making topics like these.

    I need my coffee, it's A.M.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Got a question, or got something in general to say or ask me, drop me a line. Peace out!

    - Z.

  9. #26
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    It's both really!

    I just hope I can keep my gaze down for long enough....

  10. #27
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    Salam everyone!
    Everyone's responsible for their own acts and are going to deserve what they did..it's not going to be who's fault was first ..remember it could be our test.
    Allah SWT even send some angles with bad reputations to test the nations don't we all know!!
    wasalam

    ..and anyways it's not just guys who look!!
    thats why Allah SWT told both men and women to lower their gazes

    Surah Noor verses 30 and 31.

    "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. "
    "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty..."
    mind you the only surah in the beginning of which Allah SWT himself said that ayaats of this surah are being made fard on you!!
    thanks!
    Last edited by Far7an; 01-26-2006 at 09:10 AM. Reason: posts merged

  11. #28
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?



    The poll won't let me vote for both, oh well.

  12. #29
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?


    Noor, you should visit regent college. As my friend likes to say: "there has been a 75% increase in fitnah in this college" - he would then add an additional 5% every week .

    Seriously, it is both - you can't just blame the male nor can you blame the sister. take me for example. At any one time in college, i only sit with males. Only on 2 occasions did I ever sit with a female (1 on each occasion) and that was because they sat down next to me. Got it?
    And one time, i was asked to sit next to one of them, well she was asking for help in accounts - damsel in distress an all

    I have you know, the only thing, THE ONLY thing I have ever talked to any of those females that i sat next to/with was college work and it was usually them asking moi, not other way around.

    However, I see many muslim girls free-mixing - and I mean free-mixing: heavily envoled with members of opposite sex - but i'm not one to judge - they could very well be a better muslim at home than I am or whatever. Oh did i forget to mention that a large amount of muslim females, including the ones that i mentioned only wear hijab at ramadhan?

    Yes I agree with the sinful glare, but if one doesn't dress like a slag, one won't be seen as a slag. IT's a two-way thing.

    I also agree with Z.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Book on sharia law Updated!
    Mosque-a-mania!
    Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
    ''Become the change''

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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Yeah i agree with you bro.
    I agree that we should lower our gaze but sometimes its really difficult. Sahytwan is constantly around to mislead us. Moreover there are those females who dress themselves as if its making 50 degrees outside; thus they are helping shaytwan and hence in a way forces us to stare at them.
    Now you see we must blame both males and females. TO prevent this fitnah both sexes should help; males lowering their gaze and females dressing themselves properly.
    Along with that, we must also pray to God to protect us from this fitnah.
    It should be noted that's its not jus up to the muslimah to dress properly but also the Kaafirs; they can't just walk around dressed like this coz this has an adverse effect on many people. If this was the case they could just have walked around everywhere nude. That's why nowadays the rate of rapes is increasing. Its these type of women that are making rapists and murderers out of men.

    May Allah protect us from them.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?



    I turn 2 U ma hrt ful of Shame n ma Eyes ful of Tears.....




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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?



    Everyone is responsible for their OWN actions. We shouldnt be blaming others for our weakness.

    I had a neighbour who looked down everytime a woman passes or even if i am talking to him.

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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    May Allah instill these qualities in me and every muslims
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?



    I turn 2 U ma hrt ful of Shame n ma Eyes ful of Tears.....




  17. #33
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    salam
    ameen
    wasalam

  18. #34
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?



    Members are reminded to avoid off-topic posting, and this wont be tolerated and the posts will be deleted
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?



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  20. #35
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Wa alaykum salam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

    I’m shocked to find that the Ummah are debating and arguing about such a topic that clearly has a marked answer (yes it is that simple).

    Don’t get me wrong sister Noor and think I’m attacking you as the thread starter. For the thread to spread like a bad rash in a matter of 17 hours worries me. Why? Let me illustrate few points.

    Look at the beneficial posts and see the number of replies they get. I try my best to avoid replying most of the time to any given topic, I prefer reading. However, doesn’t this reflect the Ummah and what they place their priorities in?



    Anyways, what it is evidently clear is that it is men’s fault, why are you looking at the opposite sex long enough to notice that she has flesh exposed. Or that her skirt is short enough that if a 5 year old attempted to wear it, it’d probably not fit them either.


    Women are also to blame, it takes two. If she wasn’t dressed in a manner that attracts attention, or she wasn’t going ‘Oh my god’ and the top of her lungs and screeching, I mean giggling every time a guy walked past then you wouldn’t have a problem.

    Yes there are cases that women wearing hijab and niqaab get looks, ‘sinful’ but it is usually to get you annoyed or ignorance. You can’t easily demolish ignorance and blaming it on one sex is just being plain naïve.

    This is an issue that both men and women have to take responsibility of.


    For those who blame men because of their sinful gazes, oh please. Did Allah (swt) say only to the believing men to lower their gaze? Quranic verses would prove you otherwise.


    I don’t understand why people get heated up over such issue. Clearly it is both parties that are to blame, whether you try and justify it as much as you like.

    Women should be careful and lower their gaze and men should lower their gaze.

    ya rabb, ehdeena siratul mustakheem
    Last edited by Silver Pearl; 01-26-2006 at 07:13 PM.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    وَاصْبِرْ وَمَا صَبْرُكَ إِلاَّ بِاللّهِ


    ما بعرف انا شو حسيت

  21. #36
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by Far7an View Post

    The poll won't let me vote for both, oh well.
    Quote Originally Posted by zAk View Post
    ^ now u can
    Poll edited,
    vote again !




    I cannot believe my thread has gone to this road that I did not want it to take. With all due respect, this is my thread, if any drastic changes were to occur, wouldn’t a pm to notify the thread starter be appropriate? For heavens, I did not want to add the feature to vote for both as there was a reason behind it. I hoped for everyone to read my introduction correctly and if they did not wish to part take in the way the thread was organized their in put was not required. As I said… “So, some of you may say, what’s the point to this thread?…obviously is a collective action that is destroying our souls and schools, what are you getting at? To those of you who are thinking this way, I dare to allow your mind to think critically.”

    The option ‘both’ was not present, and I wish it not to be there. When I left the thread last night, I witnessed that there was three votes, one for each option. Now I come forth to my thread with this huge edit and abolition.

    I want to congratulate those members that have decided to join this dialogue with me. Your input has been greatly appreciated.

    Last edited by Noor; 01-26-2006 at 11:11 PM.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

  22. #37
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    ........But the thing I don't understand is, it's SOOOOOOOOOOO BAAAAAAAAAADD when a guy does it to a girl, but it's ok wen a girl does it...that's soooooo unfair!!!! it shud b equal.....people make it sound as though the guys are the desperate ones who only look at the opposite gender........

    Quote Originally Posted by Noor View Post



    I cannot believe my thread has gone to this road that I did not want it to take. With all due respect, this is my thread, if any drastic changes were to occur, wouldn’t a pm to notify the thread started be appropriate? For heavens, I did not want to add the feature to vote for both as there was a reason behind it. I hoped for everyone to read my introduction correctly and if they did not wish to part take in the way the thread was organized their in put was not required. As I said… “So, some of you may say, what’s the point to this thread?…obviously is a collective action that is destroying our souls and schools, what are you getting at? To those of you who are thinking this way, I dare to allow your mind to think critically.”

    The option ‘both’ was not present, and I wish it not to be there. When I left the thread last night, I witnessed that there was three votes, one for each option. Now I come forth to my thread with this huge edit and abolition.

    I want to congratulate those members that have decided to join this dialogue with me. Your input has been greatly appreciated.

    Now ur in trouble zAk......

    Sister please don't take it so serious, I'm sure he will correct it, wont u zAk?
    Last edited by Far7an; 01-26-2006 at 07:07 PM. Reason: posts merged

  23. #38
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noor View Post



    I cannot believe my thread has gone to this road that I did not want it to take. With all due respect, this is my thread, if any drastic changes were to occur, wouldn’t a pm to notify the thread started be appropriate? For heavens, I did not want to add the feature to vote for both as there was a reason behind it. I hoped for everyone to read my introduction correctly and if they did not wish to part take in the way the thread was organized their in put was not required. As I said… “So, some of you may say, what’s the point to this thread?…obviously is a collective action that is destroying our souls and schools, what are you getting at? To those of you who are thinking this way, I dare to allow your mind to think critically.”

    The option ‘both’ was not present, and I wish it not to be there. When I left the thread last night, I witnessed that there was three votes, one for each option. Now I come forth to my thread with this huge edit and abolition.

    I want to congratulate those members that have decided to join this dialogue with me. Your input has been greatly appreciated.

    Wa alaykum salam,

    Sister how can you place judgement simply on one party?

    We need to look at reality not play the blame game...The ummah has enough of those at this moment. what will we gain from it? let me see, a long lasting debate about women and men resulting in feminist uprising. Believe me when i say this, i have seen way too many of such issues. I don't mean to be critical, if i'm critical then i'm critical about myself too. So forgive me sister....forgive me.

    The mods who did so was trying to do what they thought was best, i'm sure it was not done to annoy you in any manner, shape or form (Allahu'3llim).

    This is a controversial topic and the topic will grow like a uncurable disease. If the option 'both' was not added i would hate to see the outcome of this thread.

    This was a great questioned you raised but nothing is as simple as we may think. Nothing in this world is ever black or white and this topic is an example of that. How can anyone only blame men? or women? that is being naive, and ignorant. It is defying nature because women are not saints nor are men. So to try and simplify the issue would be ignoring the whole picture behind such topic.

    Anyways contact the mods personally if you want to discuss the editing they made.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    وَاصْبِرْ وَمَا صَبْرُكَ إِلاَّ بِاللّهِ


    ما بعرف انا شو حسيت

  24. #39
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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?



    Sister Silver Pearl, your attitude is stimulating and I congratulate you for your input.

    It is important that members who decide to participate in this thread realize that this issue in itself that may seem to have an easy answer, may in fact have a root cause, which many of us haven’t realized. Yes, this Ummah is decimating, but what is more sickening than the activity of this thread compared to other threads which are more beneficial, is the preconceived notion and attitude that some of these members have towards this topic.

    Scandalous dressers have not been given a gender by me, nor has the one with the sinister eyes. Now, for you all to conclude that one gender is that individual who is scandalously dressed is your opinion, not mine.

    This is a forum. What I’m trying to do is have a dialogue with members to come to a conclusion of how we may battle this issue that is devastating our Ummah.

    Let me remind myself and others what I mean when I say fault. Which individual is more liable when confronting issues involving interaction between opposite genders? What do you think is the root cause? ….and eventually in the end of this dialogue we can come to a conclusion and a solution.

    I know some of you want me to get straight to the point but I would further enjoy some discussion, just so I and others can get an overview of how members view the issue.

    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

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    Re: Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    Wa alaykum salam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

    Can I firstly say phew, boy did I think I’d be roasted after my comments lol.

    Alright let me see from what perspective you were getting and say why I wrote what I did.




    Sister Silver Pearl, your attitude is stimulating and I congratulate you for your input.
    thanks....And Mashallah for your efforts in trying to bring solution in one of the most controversial issues within the Ummah.

    It is important that members who decide to participate in this thread realize that this issue in itself that may seem to have an easy answer, may in fact have a root cause, which many of us haven’t realized.
    Yes you’re right; this does a have a root cause, our enemy, Shaytan. However, I don’t know if this is what you’re referring to.



    Yes, this Ummah is decimating, but what is more sickening than the activity of this thread compared to other threads which are more beneficial, is the preconceived notion and attitude that some of these members have towards this topic.
    I’ll try and illustrate why there is an assumption behind the choices you gave as options.

    Scandalous dressers have not been given a gender by me, nor has the one with the sinister eyes. Now, for you all to conclude that one gender is that individual who is scandalously dressed is your opinion, not mine.
    Guys are not looked upon because they wear a mini skirt or a low cut top. Nor do men lavish themselves with glittery clothing or flash around their flesh by exposing their private parts. Even during the summer majority of the men do not show their lower part, they only tend to wear either a vest or a t-shirt. So who else can it refer to? Women, unless there are other species that go around dressing in such manner.

    As for the sinister eyes, you could say they were female too but then your choices would be biased and unfair so thus one can logically only conclude that it is referring to men. So even though you have tried to eliminate the attachment of genders to both options, subconsciously you have attached genders to each of them.

    Furthermore, both options require to have a gender in order to get your point across thus one has to be in reference to women and the other to men. Therefore, it is not anyone’s fault for such assumption because there is a justification for concluding such thing. Correct me if I’m mistake sister.



    What I’m trying to do is have a dialogue with members to come to a conclusion of how we may battle this issue that is devastating our Ummah.

    I do understand what you’re getting at and inshallah the sooner we find a solution the better. Nonetheless when you try and see who is to blame, then that will not cause us to come to a solution, rather that attempt will come and bite us, shame really.




    Which individual is more liable when confronting issues involving interaction between opposite genders?

    Like I said earlier you can not just look at one individual. This isn’t one of those examples where you have an older brother/sister hitting his younger bro/sis coz they crushed into their bedroom. So already error occurs here.

    What do you think is the root cause? …..
    Shaytan, being unable to control our desires and not repenting frequently I believe.
    Sinful Glare…who’s Fault?

    وَاصْبِرْ وَمَا صَبْرُكَ إِلاَّ بِاللّهِ


    ما بعرف انا شو حسيت


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