Most of you might know that I am somali. And like other arabs we have tribes, so everyone knows who everyone else is. Every single somali can be pinpointed down. This knowledge has been preseverd throughout the ages and no one can lie about their tribe. I am sure many muslim countries have tribes too like pakistan india etc
But what I wanted to know is, is there some sort of tribal knowledge left in the west? Is there some kind of tribe thing still there? Or perhaps as soon as families grow large they loose contact with eachother?
Thank you for sharing this info, brother. I had no idea.
In America, I think lineage is best traced by a family tree. I believe the Native Americans still have active tribes also. I could be wrong and somebody please correct me if I am.
Anywhere I can go to get more info on this topic? I find it interesting for some reason.
JazakAllah.
"And hold fast unto Allah, He is your protector, the best to protect and the best to help"
To some extent in the USA States are taking on some resemblance to tribes. People tend to Identify themselves as being say a New Yorker or Texan or whatever State the person is from. Each State tends to speak it's own dialect of English, especially in terms of slang. Also each State seems to be specialized as to industry etc. such as where I am the predominate industry is farming. Other States such as Connecticut the industry is more in terms of services.
But, as far as tribal affiliations nearly all Americans are mixed race and/or nationality. The typical American has no single family background. Most of us, like my self, can best be described as the result of an explosion at a UN meeting. I doubt if most Americans have 2 grandparents from the same cultural/ethnic/national heritage.
Only in America can you go into a Chinese Restaurant, owned by a German and order Chicken Biryani cooked by a Jamaican chef. the concept of tribes is not even comprehended by Americans.
Interesting question brother, I'll just give you my opinion. Im typing on the hoof so forgive my typos
The tribal system in Western system has fallen into disuse due to economic and social changes in Western societies. The family system especially in UK and the US has been continually undermined so the idea of kinship and community isnt one thats highly valued . Instead what you have is a very atomised, individualistic existence, 'look after number one' etc etc.
However having said that it still exisits in some parts, you still have remants of the clan system in Scotland and in some areas you do have people who still believe in strong ties of kinship and family (usually from religious backgrounds). The rich of society still believe in family system as well (Just check out employers and employees of newspapers).
In Italy you still have very strong family and kin networks (Catholic influence). I know its an old film but the Godfather gives you an idea of importance of family and loyalty.
call it clans or whatever you want, i am sure there must be some sort of lineage even if its abit back in history?
Also what is uncivilised about tribes Supreme?
Many people look down on tribes as silly gangs who only accept people who look like you. The constant tribal wars in Africa over things such as water, food and territory hardly help matters. It's seen as a means of dividing people due to family/village circumstance.
Thank you for sharing this info, brother. I had no idea.
In America, I think lineage is best traced by a family tree. I believe the Native Americans still have active tribes also. I could be wrong and somebody please correct me if I am.
Anywhere I can go to get more info on this topic? I find it interesting for some reason.
JazakAllah.
Yes, the Native Americans do their best to retain their tribal linage. But it is getting to be more difficult as the young are leaving the reservations and by doing so loosing their tribal ties and heritage.
World War 2 was basically a tribal war, as the Nazis wanted to purge Europe of non Germinic tribes and liberate Germanic tribes in the East eg Novgorod. Tribalism is everywhere in Europe today, it is labelled as racism, anti semitism, Neo Nazism etc. It is tribal identity and sovereignty. England is considered Anglo Saxon turf. Scotland is Gailic and Viking. Minorities (eg Jews) suppress tribalism using the media and administrational political positions out of fear of Genocidal backlashes in Europe and the US.
Some very interesting replies, thank you all for your input.
You are right supreme but thats the fault of mankind. In the Qur'aan Allah explains the function of tribes clearly and tells us what really makes one human being better then another.
O men! Behold, We have created you all out of a male and a female, and have made you into nations and tribes, so that you might come to know one another. Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of God is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold, God is all-knowing, all-aware.
Even the Prophet said in his last sermon:
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
How many of the members here actually know their lineage? I dont mean back to Adam or something, but perhaps two or three hundred years back? And if you dont know it yourself do you have any living relative that you could ask?
^Interesting...I know my lineage but not in detail though. At least I know who is our great grand grand....etc father
I think this tribe thing is more preserved in the Arab culture unlike Europeans or Americans or even some far asian people as in Singapore where you can find more than one ethnicity like 4 or 5 in the same family.
World War 2 was basically a tribal war, as the Nazis wanted to purge Europe of non Germinic tribes and liberate Germanic tribes in the East eg Novgorod. Tribalism is everywhere in Europe today, it is labelled as racism, anti semitism, Neo Nazism etc. It is tribal identity and sovereignty. England is considered Anglo Saxon turf. Scotland is Gailic and Viking. Minorities (eg Jews) suppress tribalism using the media and administrational political positions out of fear of Genocidal backlashes in Europe and the US.
Perhaps that's partially true for Europe, although what about the war in the Pacific against Japan? Or the wars in Africa against Italy?
England is no longer 'Anglo Saxon' turf. Pure Anglo Saxons in England are now in a small minority, and probably don't even know themselves they're Anglo Saxon.
To claim/belong to a tribe one would have to know his (paternal) blood line. I don't think this would be possible in the non-muslim West even if they tried; simply because many children don't know who their father is, or they believe someone to be their father when he isn't.
format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
To claim/belong to a tribe one would have to know his (paternal) blood line. I don't think this would be possible in the non-muslim West even if they tried; simply because many children don't know who their father is, or they believe someone to be their father when he isn't.
format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
To claim/belong to a tribe one would have to know his (paternal) blood line. I don't think this would be possible in the non-muslim West even if they tried; simply because many children don't know who their father is, or they believe someone to be their father when he isn't.
I'm sorry, I had to laugh. Is the only information you get about the West from Eastenders or something?
I'm sorry, I had to laugh. Is the only information you get about the West from Eastenders or something?
That comment made me laugh
Interesting topic though about tribes.
I don't think tribes really work in the west, considering we don't even have community support anymore, unless you live in a rural remote village maybe, they are usually quite close, but thats not really a tribe.
people form tribes here as well, but around football teams and such, or as Woodrow said around city or state or maybe even profession. sports especially are a way to maintain 'fighting' spirit and tribal cohesion, vestiges of the past to many, but unless our brain structure changes we'll still form tribes whenever we can.
the extended family is no longer a solid anchor in most of the world, industrialization + information age changed everything, sort of like how Agriculture did in the far past to our ancestors-from nomads to village/city dwellers.
nowadays people will have less children than their parents did, and everyone will want to enjoy their lives more instead of upholding any notion of 'responsibility to procreate' etc.
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. Instead what you have is a very atomised, individualistic existence, 'look after number one' etc etc.
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