found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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Originally Posted by Supreme

Yes, of course of that, although with your constant hostility of Christians, Jews, liberals, Americans, Brits and the like, it wouldn't surprise me if you did *dislike* homosexuals.

Homosexuality is unnatural, but then so is flying in planes, driving and even using the internet! If you want 'natural' then hey, let's all run around stark naked with wooden spears hunting elephants and then retiring to the fire in the cave whilst having relations with our cousins and regularly fighting the other alpha male caveman of the tribe!

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but when your doing all those things as you say like using internet etc, your not putting yourself in danger of getting diseases and putting others at risk? :hmm: btw it aint down right dirty and disgusting either

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Originally Posted by Seeker1066

It is made up nonsense. It is demeaning to those with real Phobias. Homosexuality is wrong. Truth is truth even if you try to pretend otherwise.

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Let's not get worked up about the semantics of 'homophobia'- it exists whether you call it discrimination, bigotry or ignorance.

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but when your doing all those things as you say like using internet etc, your not putting yourself in danger of getting diseases and putting others at risk? btw it aint down right dirty and disgusting either

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When you use the internet you put yourself at risk of viruses or trojans, when you fly or drive you are at risk of a crash or even a terrorist attack.

I agree homosexuality is repulsive, but then just because I'm indifferent to something, it does not turn me into a bigot who hates a group of people or their legal sexual preferences that they have no ability to patrol.

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Originally Posted by Skavau

I think you'll find I wasn't comparing religion with anything, only 'phobias' in the context of disagreeing with world views, or beliefs. The reality is that some people against homosexuality are also homophobic and some people against Islam are Islamaphobic. Phobia has to do with irrational fear. If you have irrational concerns about either Islam or homosexuality and actually feel irrationaly concerned or scared when in contact with either a Muslim or a homosexual then you might, just perhaps have phobia.

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I know what a phobia is, we have already defined it..
we are not here passing judgment nor are we 'afraid' much less irrationally so, we're here discussing the medical facts and other down sides of choosing a lifestyle against what God prescribed for human/kind.. facts which are deliberately kept out of the news or media, for bizarre reasons where if you discuss any openly you run a risk of being labeled something completely incompatible by the likes of you. In fact you do them a great disservice as it appears the majority of them don't know of other lethal diseases that plague them outside of HIV which apparently they don't even desire to take heed of:

"he term 'barebacking' refers to intentional unsafe anal sex. In a study of HIV-positive gay men, the majority of participants (84%) reported engaging in barebacking in the past three months, and 43% of the men reported recent bareback sex with a partner who most likely is not infected with HIV, therefore putting another man at risk of contracting HIV. (Halkitis PN. Intentional unsafe sex (barebacking) among HIV-positive gay men who seek sexual partners on the Internet. AIDS Care. 2003; 15: 367-78.) "


Being a Muslim doesn't lower your lifespan by 8-20 years
Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to suicide
Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to promiscuity
Being a Muslim doesn't leave you more open for more lethal diseases some which are most prevalent exclusively in homosexuals like Kaposi's sarcoma
Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to mental health problems
Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to substance and drug abuse
being a Muslim doesn't make you three times as likely to suffer depression
Being a Muslim doesn't make your children more prune to poverty or coming from a broken home or more prune for early promiscuity
Being a Muslim denotes you have subscribed to a world religion not a perverse sexual act.. so again, until such a time you can work on your logic can you engage in this topic.
In general if you wish to discuss things that you find wrong with Islam you can do so on a separate thread, on this thread we are discussing the risks of having a homosexual life.. Again a lewd sexual act isn't a religion, it isn't a building, it isn't a plant, it isn't the ten o'clock news.. try to put things in their proper categories!

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Labelling everyone who has a problem with either as phobic in some sort of way is just a petulant retort.

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How so? homosexuality is the name of the game, we are not discussing homophobia we are discussing homosexuality, there is a difference -- look it up in the dictionary yourself, you'll find them as different as night and day..

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You answered it yourself: consent.

There's really no argument that someone who believes in consent can argue against concerning that. There are no ethical issues. As soon as two parties consent to any given action it no longer becomes a question of ethics.

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So I take it that you find it equally ethical for a brother and sister to consent to sex? as a general rule the atheist moral compass isn't the measuring stick that most use as a baseline for morality!

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I don't care what affect it has on him. I didn't quote him just to get him to respond.

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Then I fear your punch line was misapplied!

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At what? What do you imagine 'we' are trying to do?

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Get everyone else to subscribe to your degenerate views!

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Originally Posted by M.I.A.

almost feels like im being trolled here but i guess everybody's views are engrained.
knew a guy at uni, very polite, didnt even look at girls, his mannerisms were odd. like his brain was a bit off center, didnt fit into any groups. seemed like a cool guy i think i prayed jumma with him a few times.
anyway, i thought he was gay.
now i work in a pharmacy with about 10 women and 2 guys. they must think im gay.(implying im polite, lol, my intentions are...what my hands, feet and mouth send out against me i do not know)
dont dismantle homosexuality down to being a perverted act, its somebodies whole life you deconstructed, try a little more understanding.

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I don't get your story, and further pls. allow me, when someone defines themselves as a homosexual, they are defining themselves by their sexual act.. No one goes to a place and introduces themselves as 'Hello, I am a strict heterosexual' and if they do then I'd venture to question their mental well-being.. No one would know if someone is a homo or not unless they define themselves as such!

all the best

Those preachers (muslims, orthodox jews, protestants, catholics) who stand against the sin of sodomy are biggest friends of homosexuals and lesbians because they tell them - What you do is wrong, stop ruining your life, you werent born as sexual deviant, you can leave your pervertion. But to leave it, you must know that it's evil.

Those preachers who say that sodomy is alright, they only hurt homosexuals and lesbians, because they affirm them in their sin. That's sad.

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Originally Posted by Skye

I know what a phobia is, we have already defined it..
we are not here passing judgment nor are we 'afraid' much less irrationally so, we're here discussing the medical facts and other down sides of choosing a lifestyle against what God prescribed for human/kind.. facts which are deliberately kept out of the news or media, for bizarre reasons where if you discuss any openly you run a risk of being labeled something completely incompatible by the likes of you. In fact you do them a great disservice as it appears the majority of them don't know of other lethal diseases that plague them outside of HIV which apparently they don't even desire to take heed of:

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I didn't refer to anyone here being homophobic, did I? I simply replied to comment by a user that dismissed homophobia as a legitimate descriptive term. I made the cheap point of stating that if homophobia is an irrelevant term, then so is Islamaphobia.

In any case please do not pretend this is an entirely utilitarian health issue. Even if it was true that homosexual intercourse is dangerous, even if it was true that homosexual intercourse has disastrous health consequences - it only negates it to being as immoral than smoking, or engaging in extreme sports. And indeed, you do not see the disgust (or I haven't) towards smokers that you see towards homosexuals.

That is because I believe, the act and/or the tendency of homosexuality represents a lot more than merely 'bad for health' to some.

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Being a Muslim doesn't lower your lifespan by 8-20 years
Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to suicide
Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to promiscuity
Being a Muslim doesn't leave you more open for more lethal diseases some which are most prevalent exclusively in homosexuals like Kaposi's sarcoma
Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to mental health problems
Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to substance and drug abuse
being a Muslim doesn't make you three times as likely to suffer depression
Being a Muslim doesn't make your children more prune to poverty or coming from a broken home or more prune for early promiscuity
Being a Muslim denotes you have subscribed to a world religion not a perverse sexual act.. so again, until such a time you can work on your logic can you engage in this topic.

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What does this have to do with anything I said?

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In general if you wish to discuss things that you find wrong with Islam you can do so on a separate thread, on this thread we are discussing the risks of having a homosexual life.. Again a lewd sexual act isn't a religion, it isn't a building, it isn't a plant, it isn't the ten o'clock news.. try to put things in their proper categories!

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I think I already said this, but I wasn't comparing Islam with Homosexuality.

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So I take it that you find it equally ethical for a brother and sister to consent to sex? as a general rule the atheist moral compass isn't the measuring stick that most use as a baseline for morality!

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It isn't ethical or unethical. The choice removes the dilemma. It is no more unethical than me firing up Mediamonkey and playing a song. I chose to do it.

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Get everyone else to subscribe to your degenerate views!

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What views would these be?

Nobody has addressed the points in OP in a meaningful way. Next best thing is to derail the thread. Congratulations!

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Originally Posted by Skavau

I didn't refer to anyone here being homophobic, did I? I simply replied to comment by a user that dismissed homophobia as a legitimate descriptive term. I made the cheap point of stating that if homophobia is an irrelevant term, then so is Islamaphobia.

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Then neither of those descriptions have anything to do with my thread and I'd again prefer that if you are to engage in a topic that you'd be in keeping with the subject matter..
When the conditions of phobia are met then we can discuss them, so far neither phobia of the islamic or homosexual type have anything to do with this thread!

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In any case please do not pretend this is an entirely utilitarian health issue. Even if it was true that homosexual intercourse is dangerous, even if it was true that homosexual intercourse has disastrous health consequences - it only negates it to being as immoral than smoking, or engaging in extreme sports. And indeed, you do not see the disgust (or I haven't) towards smokers that you see towards homosexuals.

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The article doesn't discuss sexual health only.. it discusses the impact on society, children, mental status, socioeconomic implications amongst others.. pls. try to read the entire topic you are opposing before hanging on to a strawman, and again as a general rule try to discuss things in context, I am getting tired of you pulling out of a hat every irrelevant topic to make a similitude to this one!

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That is because I believe, the act and/or the tendency of homosexuality represents a lot more than merely 'bad for health' to some.

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see previous reply, and go back and read the original article!

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What does this have to do with anything I said?

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What does what you have said have to do with our topic here?

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I think I already said this, but I wasn't comparing Islam with Homosexuality.

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Then what were you doing?

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It isn't ethical or unethical. The choice removes the dilemma. It is no more unethical than me firing up Mediamonkey and playing a song. I chose to do it.

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Again with bizarre similitudes and lower than normal baseline.
The way you define morality stands at a different platform than society at large!

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What views would these be?

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The ones you've been expressing here!

all the best

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Nobody has addressed the points in OP in a meaningful way. Next best thing is to derail the thread. Congratulations!

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:sl:
what you are not sold on 'consent' 'Islamophobia' 'homophobia' and bigotry?

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Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

:sl:
what you are not sold on 'consent' 'Islamophobia' 'homophobia' and bigotry?

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Well, the trend in this thread is ignoring the OP and labeling people with phobia, bigotry, etc... This is neither a rebuttal nor addressing the points in a meaningful way. So I guess they can't.

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Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

I don't get your story, and further pls. allow me, when someone defines themselves as a homosexual, they are defining themselves by their sexual act.. No one goes to a place and introduces themselves as 'Hello, I am a strict heterosexual' and if they do then I'd venture to question their mental well-being.. No one would know if someone is a homo or not unless they define themselves as such!

all the best

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no, when someone defines themselves as homosexual they imply they are attracted to a person who they should not be attracted to. acting on this thought process is another matter entirely.
i would not condemn either, its not my place and i am not fit to pass judgement upon them.
allah swt has given us the faculty of reason and an ability to distinguish between right and wronge, i am at a loss as how to apply these at the moment.
anyhoo as its written, allah swt is well aqquanted with all that we do, he knows the secrets of our hearts and our true motives even if we do not, allah swt is the keeper of the seen and the unseen and he is the best judge of all. know this though, even if you were to claim these people are so far from allah swt that they were worthy of your condemnation, everybody serves allah swt, if they want to or not!
i cant bang my head against this wall many more times so if iv lost the plot its all good.

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Originally Posted by M.I.A.

no, when someone defines themselves as homosexual they imply they are attracted to a person who they should not be attracted to. acting on this thought process is another matter entirely.
i would not condemn either, its not my place and i am not fit to pass judgement upon them.
allah swt has given us the faculty of reason and an ability to distinguish between right and wronge, i am at a loss as how to apply these at the moment.
anyhoo as its written, allah swt is well aqquanted with all that we do, he knows the secrets of our hearts and our true motives even if we do not, allah swt is the keeper of the seen and the unseen and he is the best judge of all. know this though, even if you were to claim these people are so far from allah swt that they were worthy of your condemnation, everybody serves allah swt, if they want to or not!
i cant bang my head against this wall many more times so if iv lost the plot its all good.

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:sl:

Go back to the first page and read what the article is actually about..
I haven't said these people are far removed from God or not, in fact I have gone forth and posted the story of a homosexual Muslim who changed his life-style..
Islam views homosexuality (the act of sodomy) as a sin.. if you don't agree with that, that it is your entitlement but that is outside the folds of Islam..

This thread isn't about preaching nor emotionality. It isn't about bigotry or phobias, it isn't about consent.. It is about the social, moral, health, societal implications, psychiatric as well the morbidity and mortality that plagues folks who choose to act outside the folds of what is natural and religiously moral!

As such, I think perhaps this thread is a little outside the sphere that you'd like to engage.

all the best

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Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

:sl:

Go back to the first page and read what the article is actually about..
I haven't said these people are far removed from God or not, in fact I have gone forth and posted the story of a homosexual Muslim who changed his life-style..
Islam views homosexuality (the act of sodomy) as a sin.. if you don't agree with that, that it is your entitlement but that is outside the folds of Islam..

This thread isn't about preaching nor emotionality. It isn't about bigotry or phobias, it isn't about consent.. It is about the social, moral, health, societal implications, psychiatric as well the morbidity and mortality that plagues folks who choose to act outside the folds of what is natural and religiously moral!

As such, I think perhaps this thread is a little outside the sphere that you'd like to engage.

all the best

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i dont really put my faith in science, after all we only live until a 100 if we'r lucky. try getting a few thousand candles on the cake and see if science can explain that..people did live that long im sure. hypocritical for someone who's education and interest has been in science. proper outside the fold on that one.
just depends on how much you attribute to god, your social, economic, bodily condition and ultimatly your mortality would be a nice start. dont worry this time im really going.

peace.

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Originally Posted by M.I.A.

i dont really put my faith in science, after all we only live until a 100 if we'r lucky. try getting a few thousand candles on the cake and see if science can explain that..people did live that long im sure. hypocritical for someone who's education and interest has been in science. proper outside the fold on that one.
just depends on how much you attribute to god, your social, economic, bodily condition and ultimatly your mortality would be a nice start. dont worry this time im really going.

peace.

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I am not worried.. and I am not sure I ever understand what this last post is about..

all the best

Very interesting read. Here in the Netherlands it's almost impossible to criticize homosexuality (it's probably the same in other western countries). When you're debating with westerners and tell them that you're not against homosexual individuals, but against homosexuality, they still won't accept it. They defend homosexuality as if it were a religion sent by God.

@ skavaooooo : i am a homophobic.

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Originally Posted by mad_scientist

@ skavaooooo : i am a homophobic.

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Me to bro. ....how have you been brother? Long time no see.

Between you being a scientist and me being.....idk, crazy...between us we can make a pill to cure homosexuality! It's a disease, we can fix it!

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Originally Posted by Italianguy

Me to bro. ....how have you been brother? Long time no see.

Between you being a scientist and me being.....idk, crazy...between us we can make a pill to cure homosexuality! It's a disease, we can fix it!

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Allhamdulillah. Yourself?

There is no cure for self-inflicted lunacy.

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Originally Posted by mad_scientist

Allhamdulillah. Yourself?

There is no cure for self-inflicted lunacy.

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Salaam,

I guess were stuck dealing with them then;D

Eradication of this disease is like executing all the cases;D and closing their chapters for the next generation.
YES WE CAN!!!!;D;D;D;D

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Originally Posted by Supreme

Let's not get worked up about the semantics of 'homophobia'- it exists whether you call it discrimination, bigotry or ignorance.



When you use the internet you put yourself at risk of viruses or trojans, when you fly or drive you are at risk of a crash or even a terrorist attack.

I agree homosexuality is repulsive, but then just because I'm indifferent to something, it does not turn me into a bigot who hates a group of people or their legal sexual preferences that they have no ability to patrol.

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In Islam, homosexual acts are againts God's laws and the punishments for it are severe, similar to adultery.
Hence, muslim should be against and condemn homosexuality.
If that means muslims are homophobes then so be it.