I know women CAN’T be leader of a country, soldiers and judges. I know the most important role is being a mother and wife.
I want to know whether CAN be something other than the OBVIOUS (medicine, teacher etc).
I am asking this because I come across another respected scholar cursing women that speak in lectures, give talks etc. He was answering a question from a fellow Muslim who asked him what he thoughts were about women that “acted” like men by giving lectures.
To be honest, I rolled my eyes at the question and the answer.
And also I have come across members in this group saying women HAVE to do jobs that are the obvious jobs otherwise she is committing a sin and leaving her home unnecessary! So those of you (sisters) that have their own business, scientists, cleaners, receptionists, mathematicians etc are committing a sin! You can’t even give a lecture either (btw you dont have to raise you voice or use soft voice to give a talk)?
Now I obviously think that it is wrong! Now why am I seeing more and more people that have this mentality? Don’t they look at the bigger picture and see the consequences? Most women that work in hospital and have business in Saudi and most Middle East countries are NON Muslims!
I am beginning to feel like a militant feminist lol
there are many things which Muslim women can do and are commended for their efforts, the quran also mentions them as giving in charity and enjoining the right and forbidding the wrong:
The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another:
they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger.
On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.
Qur'an - Al-Tauba 9:71
the wife of Moses (pbuh) was watering her flocks when they met.
and we are aware that asma (ra) carried date seeds for the horse until Abu Bakr (ra) got them a servant - Zubair (ra) was a strong and jealous man for his honour, and he didn't like his wife having to work but it was done at the time out of necessity.
the problem i personally feel is the state of society and the corruption we witness almost everywhere.
it really changes the dynamics of what one feels comfortable with.
in a true Muslim society, if someone makes a pass at your wife, you go and break his nose, it will be looked on differently by the jury or judge.
but in the media corrupted west, you will be seen as a criminal and may even be punished.
so can you always blame the men for being cautious?
i personally feel it is wrong to just use Islam (often wrongly) every time someone doesn't like something, but i don't feel it is wrong for a man to want his wife to be safe from the ills being perpetrated on the psychology of society by the government and mass media.
these things can be made clear without just blaming Allah and absolving oneself from criticism.
LOL I don't see the quran praising men of being lawyers or other fancy jobs other than providing money which obviously can be earned in simple jobs.
Now you need to think what kind of society you are advocating for? No restaurants for women, no gym, sport centre of any kind, go trips aboard with mahram because there no one to carry out checks, no clothes shopping, no maid, no banks,
Plus you and others are trying something that is halal to haram. And you and others have. NO rights to complain about non Muslim influence in muslim society when you actively advocate that muslim women have role in society other than to provide the obvious (medicine and teaching).
Funny how scholars in the past didn't stop the scientist posted early? Why did tell her and others like her to get lost or otherwise do the obvious? Why is that they didn't punish women that did other jobs not in teaching sector or medicine.
It is only recently you all want to go backwards.
Btw there parts of the quran where it praise muslim in general who contribute to society that includes women. And luckily there scholars that don't condemn but praise mothers and those who work. Plus you and others are so quick to highlight about women's rights to spend her own income and have her own property yet you are dead set against those that do lol
So how do you think women gains her property and income without working?
Next time, when you decide to highlight this to a non women to prove muslim are not obessed, please be honest and write
P.s btw I don't think women should work unless they are doctors or teachers.
Btw I am not saying ALL or most women should work, they should be given the choice.
Best regards,
You know for once I'd really like to see you take from my threads and posts what I'm actually trying to say as opposed to making assumptions and throwing accusations without even reading what I'm saying! Speaking in context would be a great way to start off in the right direction when replying.
My thread that I posted neither made haram or makrooh for women to work nor did it discourage them from doing what they have to do. All it did was mention what the Qur'an has praised about women and what is higher and better according to the Qur'an.
Firstly, the context that the scholars usually speak about Muslim women working is for those in Muslim countries. Now what Muslim women do with regards to work in Muslim countries is a separate issue which I will not mention here. I could also discuss the kind of work that men should and shouldn't have and what Islam says about being lawyers and well-paid jobs and what not but I will not mention that here either because that is a completely different topic.
Secondly, the phenomenon that the scholars of today have taken into consideration is that of Muslims migrating to non-Muslim lands which means some new rulings had to be issued. Sometimes women are encouraged to take jobs in fields where women are needed just to make matters easier for other Muslims (please be so kind as to note very carefully here that I have not limited any jobs up till this point). Now for those women who need to work to support their family, themselves if their husband has divorced them or just that the financial situation requires her to work then no one prohibits her working. All Islam says is just work in a suitable environment where she won't be harmed (which include her religion and dignity). It is a principle in Islamic Jurisprudence that whenever there is a necessity, whatever is prohibited becomes permissible so she can get jobs in fields that are not suitable for women if her financial situation requires so (and this exception is waived once the necessity is no longer there). This is after she has tried her very best to find a suitable job first.
You mentioned scholars praising women, now what kind of contribution which is praised by the scholars didn't necessarily mean work. It is praise for a woman of substance who – broadly speaking – strives to reform her family and society without stepping into the territory where she isn't Islamically going to excel.
And finally, you've made a very bold accusation to say that I go against what I speak. And I should assume that you know me to make this claim? You have seem me with my family, seen me at work and have witnessed my contribution to my local society where I live to make such an assumption? Does the hereafter and accountability mean anything to you?
Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 03-17-2012 at 01:21 AM.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
You know for once I'd really like to see you take from my threads and posts what I'm actually trying to say as opposed to making assumptions and throwing accusations without even reading what I'm saying! Speaking in context would be a great way to start off in the right direction when replying.
Yeah sure...
My thread that I posted neither made haram or makrooh for women to work nor did it discourage them from doing what they have to do. All it did was mention what the Qur'an has praised about women and what is higher and better according to the Qur'an.
LOL maybe you and I were reading two different articles? The article clearly was harsh to those that aspire to be something else other than being a mother and wife.
Going far as calling such people as experiencing a delusion, so who are you trying to kid?
Secondly, the phenomenon that the scholars of today have taken into consideration is that of Muslims migrating to non-Muslim lands which means some new rulings had to be issued. Sometimes women are encouraged to take jobs in fields where women are needed just to make matters easier for other Muslims (please be so kind as to note very carefully here that I have not limited any jobs up till this point). Now for those women who need to work to support their family, themselves if their husband has divorced them or just that the financial situation requires her to work then no one prohibits her working. All Islam says is just work in a suitable environment where she won't be harmed (which include her religion and dignity). It is a principle in Islamic Jurisprudence that whenever there is a necessity, whatever is prohibited becomes permissible so she can get jobs in fields that are not suitable for women if her financial situation requires so (and this exception is waived once the necessity is no longer there). This is after she has tried her very best to find a suitable job first.
This ruling was stated for Muslims living in Muslim countries too.
You mentioned scholars praising women, now what kind of contribution which is praised by the scholars didn't necessarily mean work. It is praise for a woman of substance who – broadly speaking – strives to reform her family and society without stepping into the territory where she isn't Islamically going to excel.
Scholars HAVE praised women for being mathematicians, scientists. This equals work.
And finally, you've made a very bold accusation to say that I go against what I speak. And I should assume that you know me to make this claim? You have seem me with my family, seen me at work and have witnessed my contribution to my local society where I live to make such an assumption? Does the hereafter and accountability mean anything to you?
Lol, so I was imaging you saying that it is unnecessary for a woman to be scientist, cleaners etc in last discussions about this issue? Wasn’t your question towards me, is it “necessary”? No! I don’t know you or your family, sure as hell remember what people say throughout the islamicboard especially when they make a distinguishable point!
Like I said, you would be the first in line to use property rights and income rights to defend accusations about our religion being oppressive towards women yet you believe them to be completely unnecessary in science and maths !
Last edited by Rhubarb Tart; 03-17-2012 at 02:17 AM.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
Sometimes women are encouraged to take jobs in fields where women are needed just to make matters easier for other Muslims (please be so kind as to note very carefully here that I have not limited any jobs up till this point).
Noticed, remember how you were arguing that it was “unnecessary” for women to be scientist for instance because she is not benefiting other women? Even though, it is a JOB that benefits overall society!
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
You should not be quick to make accusations. I don't have Muslim female friends. I think I touched a nerve.
yea, dont touch my nerves, I bite quite hard with ensuing permanent damage.
if you had noticed my question mark? ah the irony that my enemy "likes" your comment against me.
Last edited by CosmicPathos; 03-17-2012 at 02:31 AM.
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
LOL maybe you and I were reading two different articles? The article clearly was harsh to those that aspire to be something else other than being a mother and wife.
Going far as calling such people as experiencing a delusion, so who are you trying to kid?
This ruling was stated for Muslims living in Muslim countries too.
Scholars HAVE praised women for being mathematicians, scientists. This equals work.
Lol, so I was imaging you saying that it is unnecessary for a woman to be scientist, cleaners etc in last discussions about this issue? Wasn’t your question towards me, is it “necessary”? No! I don’t know you or your family, sure as hell remember what people say throughout the islamicboard especially when they make a distinguishable point!
Like I said, you would be the first in line to use property rights and income rights to defend accusations about our religion being oppressive towards women yet you believe them to be completely unnecessary in science and maths !
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
Sadly, I can't repay the favor. You're completely harmless.
i wonder who was the cause of your ban? I am surprised that was harmless. do you like to inflict pain on yourself and hence dont see harm as harm?
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
the fact that you can equate facial expression with thought process shows that your frontal lobe circuits have gone haywire.
Yup mad scientists contribute to the technology you are enjoying. Einstein's son had schizo, einstein also had issues. and many other scientists.
Lol didn't I say bean's clumsiness? I obviously meant the character actions not the facial expression.
So where I equate facial expression with thought process?
Rather these scientists than a racist and sexist muslim like yourself.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
Lol didn't I say bean's clumsiness? I obviously meant the character actions not the facial expression.
So where I equate facial expression with thought process?
Rather these scientists than a racist and sexist muslim like yourself.
well whatever you meant, I was only using his pic for facial expressions, not clumsiness.
if you folk can believe that male xy are mutation of your amazing xx and can easily get away with such stupidities, or if you folk expect the man to spend on you and then if he exerts SOME degree of control and you dont like it then i am comfortable being a sexist. Good day.
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
I am asking this because I come across another respected scholar cursing women that speak in lectures, give talks etc. He was answering a question from a fellow Muslim who asked him what he thoughts were about women that “acted” like men by giving lectures.
It's depend on the culture, and depend on how equal the men and women in that place. In Muslim countries where men and women are equal like Indonesia, female scholars or female da'i are honored people. Even many male are listen to their lectures.
well whatever you meant, I was only using his pic for facial expressions, not clumsiness.
if you folk can believe that male xy are mutation of your amazing xx and can easily get away with such stupidities, or if you folk expect the man to spend on you and then if he exerts SOME degree of control and you dont like it then i am comfortable being a sexist. Good day.
We are not dogs, men are not pet owners.
Sigh, this core reasons why I ruled out marriage because young males display disgusting level of ownership?
no wonder you dead set against women working because that would completely undermine your sense of ownership!
NO ONE spends a penny on me luckily!
You haven't address racist part? Funny how you accuse a writer early of nationalism when you nationalist yourself? You are so proud of your culture, you wouldn't let your so called future daughter marry anyone else! Nationalist, racist and sexist all in one! One could never guess!
Last edited by Rhubarb Tart; 03-17-2012 at 04:35 AM.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
The complex relationship between women and Islam is defined by Islamic texts, the history and culture of the Muslim world. The Qur'an states that both men and women are equal, but also, as in 4:34, that "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard."
The prophet pbuh said that if it wasn't classed as shirk, he'd allow the women to bow/prstrate to their husbands... but the women these days? pfft... get off your high horses...
...and the men? get humble already. Arguing with a woman does not make you more of a man.
Thread question answered. Close thread... it's getting ugly.
The thread is about the overall role apart from being mother and wife.
I stated at the beginning so don't why an article about motherhood being the most important was even posted?
Look at the beginning of this thread and I clearly acknowledged that it is the most important!
I said apart from the obvious roles and jobs
Doesn't matter whether he argues, he had deal his racist attitude
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
The thread is about the overall role apart from being mother and wife.
The role of every man is to be husband and a father... just as it is for ever woman to be a mother and a wife. Man should go out and ear the bread, and woman should raise the family - it's called a partnership.
Women can become Dr's Lawyers and whatever they like, as long as they fulfil their primary duty FIRST - to be a wife and a mother, meaning, raise the children and manage the home.
I don 't understand why women want to work? I mean, why? It's a mans world - do you really want to be the subject of male scrutiny in a male dominated environment? Or is that women like to complain and there's nothing better to complain about than your boss' advancements towards you, or your fellow male colleagues talking you down? I don't get it. No wait - it's deadly simple - gossip. That must be it...
I'm pleased I have found a woman - a real woman, one who knows her role in Islam. And would love to fulfil it. She wants nothing more than to stay at home and raise children.
It is incumbent on ever man and woman to marry... and not to delay it. LOL that.
Urgh you still don't get it and post links that has been posted in this over and over again. That statement still goes married, I am talking about ALL women.
I dont want type she has to be wifey and mother post!
I give up! Btw I don't have to be married, been there and done it!
Best regard,
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
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