× Register Login What's New! Contact us
serious scientific discussion about evolution
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    maxmed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    5
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    5
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    0

    serious scientific discussion about evolution

    Report bad ads?

    Salam,
    This is the first time that I have ever posted on this forum. I am a Muslim but there are some points that need to be addressed. Even for those of us who aren't that into science we comprehend the magnitude of the advances that are happening all the time from quantum physics to organic chemistry to molecular biology. Please be mature in analyzing the information I have put forth, make sure your answer appeals to logic and reasoning and not emotions. So I begin, the theory of evolution gets a bad rep because of the use "theory" it is dismissed as simply a "theory". However, what most people don't understand is that in the scientific community a theory is a fact. To refute the theory of evolution is equivalent to refuting the theory of gravity, theory of heliocentricism (earth goes around sun) or cellular theory (we are composed of cells). The theory of evolution has reached a point where it is considered a fact and absolutely cannot be disproven. This is the case and how should we accept this reality?
    I have three specific examples that support evolution since as human beings it is easier for us to comprehend specific ideas as opposed to some ideological propositions that are put forth.
    1) Fish have something called a laryngeal nerve that travels a short distance and is effective. However us mammals also have the same nerve but since we have necks it takes a very long path to travel a very short distance, therefore very inefficient. Scientists use this example to disprove intelligent design and that we share a same ancestor with fishes.
    2) There is absolutely no reason as to why we should get goosebumps, it serves absolutely no purpose since we don't have a fur coat. Scientist will simply say that our non-human ancestors had a fur coat and the goosebumps are contractions that raises this coat of fur and creates insulation. This keeps heat trapped and therefore keeps the specimen warm.
    3) This one is truly astounding, We have 46 chromosomes but our ape cousins have 48. If we share a same ancestor than there is a problem because you can't just lose a pair of chromosomes. So scientists hypothesized that one pair of our chromosomes used to be in fact 2 pairs. If they couldn't prove this than evolution would be an invalid theory. The published research shows that our 2nd pair of chromosomes used to be 2 pair but they fused together just like they hypothesized. In fact they calculated exactly where the fusion happened on the chromosome.
    So those are points I wanted to mention. They are quite troubling for a sunni muslim who appeals to logic and rationality. Please before commenting just look up some of the points and judge for yourself with a critical eye if you think there may be any conflict of some sort. Also it is important that this kind of intellectual discourse takes place especially with all the research that is going on and some of the research fundamentally goes against all abrahamic faiths.
    Jazakallah,
    Last edited by Muslim Woman; 04-26-2016 at 06:59 AM.

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    anatolian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,299
    Threads
    30
    Reputation
    4689
    Rep Power
    65
    Likes (Given)
    226
    Likes (Received)
    732

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    I am not a biologist so I cant answer your questions from a scientific perspective but I do not reject the evolution theory. Muslims should not reject it too. It is the best scientific theory to explain life today. What I believe the evolution must be a process of Allah's creation.
    1 | Likes maxmed liked this post
    serious scientific discussion about evolution

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

  4. #3
    The-Deist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Earth
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Other
    Posts
    1,318
    Threads
    54
    Reputation
    1715
    Rep Power
    20
    Likes (Given)
    190
    Likes (Received)
    232

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    I say it is possible. Humans are animals. It just happens to be we evolved into a far superior species with organized societies, while some stayed the same way.
    1 | Likes maxmed liked this post

  5. #4
    goodwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    82
    Threads
    1
    Reputation
    402
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    62
    Likes (Received)
    20

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    According to what I've read, evolution can be divided into two kinds. On the one hand, microevolution or natural selection--change within a species--is observable but does not involve the addition of new genetic information, only a kind of shifting around of existing genetic information within a species. Thus we have chihuahuas and great danes, both dogs that can interbreed (well, those two particular kinds might need some help!) but having a very different appearance. On the other hand, there is macroevolution, the change of one species into another species. This has never been observed, having occurred eons ago, and is still theoretical. Moreover, the transitional species that Darwin predicted are still generally missing from the fossil record. In addition, soft tissue from dinosaurs has been found in recent years. Such findings obviously suggest that dinosaurs did not die out so many millions of years ago as theorized.
    1 | Likes maxmed liked this post

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    greenhill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Malaysia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,358
    Threads
    60
    Reputation
    21839
    Rep Power
    43
    Likes (Given)
    1917
    Likes (Received)
    2113

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    I am no scientist either.

    But gravity and the orbits are facts that can be calculated. The effects of bigger mass on smaller objects.. it is quite universal. Evolution however, is still a theory and not a fact. It is a very strong theory and still not proven but providesthe strongest clue.

    And a clue it still is.

    We have had a seriously long and elaborate discussion on this subject sometime back and I remember a statement from an 'Evolutionist' agreeing that the theory of evolution is gathered from what is equivalent of 1 page in every thousand. But with enough pages still left to plot the chart. The extrapolation of the chart suggests evolution.

    That is not complete data. It is not even anywhere near. however, people are willing to forego that 999 pages are not available and base it on the 1 out of 1000.

    Taking another point, the fact that the Big Bang required absolute precision in the way it happened is comparable to having all the sands of the beaches on earth representing each factor. The mathematicians have agreed that removing just 3 grains of sand is enough to prevent the universe to be as it is.

    Just 3 grains!

    What are the chances of the universe developing this way without some form of intervention? Almost zero!

    Yet, we rather overlook the near impossible odds and believe in chance.

    Same goes to evolution. 999 pages missing out of 1000, and we still want to believe it is fact?

    Use your reason.


    3 | Likes Eric H, maxmed, noraina liked this post
    serious scientific discussion about evolution

    As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.

  8. #6
    greenhill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Malaysia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    3,358
    Threads
    60
    Reputation
    21839
    Rep Power
    43
    Likes (Given)
    1917
    Likes (Received)
    2113

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    By the way, welcome to the forum.

    Wishing you a great stay

    2 | Likes goodwill, maxmed liked this post
    serious scientific discussion about evolution

    As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.

  9. #7
    maxmed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    5
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    5
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    Salam,
    Thanks to all that have answered. The point that almost everyone misunderstands is that evolution is not simply some hypothesis, there are 1000s of proofs to support it. In the scientific community a theory is the highest from an epistemic standpoint. Like I have stated gravity is a theory and the earth going around the sun is a theory in science. Evolution is also a theory and is equal it terms of validity to the previous mentioned theories. To deny the theory of evolution is equivalent to denying the theory of gravity or that the earth goes around the sun. The evidence for all these points are at a stage beyond any reasonable doubt. However since science is not like dogma, it is true that it is ever changing (nothing is ever set in stone). The changes however can support or disprove the science, however gravity, heliocentricism and evolution have enough proof that the changes that occur can only strengthen and quite frankly it impossible now to disprove. You can't say that gravity doesn't exist, you can't say that the earth doesn't orbit the sun and you also can't say that evolution is false. Please just try to listen to what the leading evolutionary biologists have to say about evolution. Always look at what is being said with a skeptical and critical eye and try to be as objective as you can when judging for yourself. Once again I would like to sincerely thank you all for answering and for taking the time out of your day day to address the question that I have raised.
    Jazakallah,

  10. #8
    Serinity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,847
    Threads
    71
    Reputation
    10795
    Rep Power
    20
    Likes (Given)
    1153
    Likes (Received)
    2267

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution



    Yes, there is microevolution, but there is no evidence for macroevolution, afaik. And even if there was macroevolution, it'd require a conscious creator to edit the genes etc.
    2 | Likes goodwill, maxmed liked this post

  11. #9
    noraina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    A small British town
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,864
    Threads
    108
    Reputation
    21049
    Rep Power
    26
    Likes (Given)
    9554
    Likes (Received)
    3881

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    Assalamu Alaykum,

    Bro, I highly recommend you read the article I am going to link to. It gives a really balanced perspective on both the advantages and disadvantages of science, but its limitations on being solely based on physical observation, and that on the rare case (such as with evolution) that science and evolution clash, the word of Allah SWT takes precedence, solely because we can be 100% sure of what the Quran says, but the scientific theory of evolution has many shortcomings. For example, when looking at the skeletons of supposed human ancestors, scientists are still on the search for the 'missing link' of when it jumped from the previous stage to the stage we are at now.

    I am a strong supporter of science, but I do not believe in evolution as a Muslim - we descended from Adam (as), who may have looked different to the way we look today, but was most certainly human and not another species.

    Has Evolution Been Misunderstood?
    2 | Likes maxmed, Eric H liked this post
    serious scientific discussion about evolution

    Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, Thabbit Qalbi Ala Deenik
    Oh turner of the Hearts make my heart firm on Your Deen







  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    Pygoscelis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    4,012
    Threads
    51
    Reputation
    12314
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    320
    Likes (Received)
    662

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Serinity View Post


    Yes, there is microevolution, but there is no evidence for macroevolution, afaik. And even if there was macroevolution, it'd require a conscious creator to edit the genes etc.
    There is no "micro" or "macro" evolution. Evolution is evolution. And yes, we have observed evolution to the point of inability to interbreed, if that is how you define "macro".
    1 | Likes maxmed liked this post

  14. #11
    ardianto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Indonesia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,361
    Threads
    152
    Reputation
    50601
    Rep Power
    89
    Likes (Given)
    2769
    Likes (Received)
    4657

    Re: serious scientific discussion about eolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    There is no "micro" or "macro" evolution. Evolution is evolution. And yes, we have observed evolution to the point of inability to interbreed, if that is how you define "macro".
    "Micro" and "macro" in evolution are terms that used to describe the level of evolution. But there is difference of opinion about how these term can be used.

    According to first opinion, micro evolution is evolution which the change is not so far. But if this change continued, and the change begin to far, this micro evolution turn into macro evolution.

    Second opinion. Micro evolution is evolution that happen in genus level which create new species, while the genus is still same. While macro evolution is evolution that happen in higher level such as in level family, order, class, or phylum.
    1 | Likes maxmed liked this post

  15. #12
    crimsontide06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    722
    Threads
    57
    Reputation
    3595
    Rep Power
    40
    Likes (Given)
    115
    Likes (Received)
    271

    Re: serious scientific discussion about evolution

    That moment....when God created evolution and how it works
    1 | Likes maxmed liked this post

  16. #13
    maxmed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    5
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    5
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: serious scientific discussion about evolution

    I think the only problem with evolution is that it goes against the abrahamic faiths. We have no problem with science, we usually accept scientific facts as obvious; what makes evolution different? Evolution shouldn't really be under debate. It is like debating if the earth is flat or spherical, it is the consensus in the scientific community that evolution is a scientific fact. Evolution doesn't disprove God, it is impossible for science to disprove God, that's not science's goal. Science just wants to understand the world around us and explain it through objective means be performing experiments that yield results. One thing that I do wonder is that evolution shows that a higher power is not necessary for life as we see it today. Atheists can use Occam's razor to then deduce that God doesn't exist. One must then wonder why would God hide behind evolution, why does the evidence clearly show that we share a same ancestor with primates. The abrahamic God is a loving, caring and compassionate God. It almost seems like anyone who wants to observe the natural world in a mature objective way may be lead to question the abrahamic faiths. A christian scientist who was presenting the third point that I raised in the original question said he doesn't believe in a deceptive God that would make it seem as though all organisms share a common ancestor without a slither of a doubt but in reality we came from Adam and Eve of which there is almost no objective evidence.

  17. #14
    Eric H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    uk
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    3,113
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    48543
    Rep Power
    106
    Likes (Given)
    3589
    Likes (Received)
    2285

    Re: serious scientific discussion about evolution

    Greetings and peace be with you maxmed; and welcome to the forum;

    I think the only problem with evolution is that it goes against the abrahamic faiths.
    But that is a huge problem, it means that Allah, has it all wrong when he said he created Adam. Should we believe science or Allah?

    Evolution shouldn't really be under debate.
    I am very much in agreement with 'greenhill' when he said.....

    We have had a seriously long and elaborate discussion on this subject sometime back and I remember a statement from an 'Evolutionist' agreeing that the theory of evolution is gathered from what is equivalent of 1 page in every thousand. But with enough pages still left to plot the chart. The extrapolation of the chart suggests evolution.

    That is not complete data. It is not even anywhere near. however, people are willing to forego that 999 pages are not available and base it on the 1 out of 1000.
    Originally posted by maxmed
    It is like debating if the earth is flat or spherical,
    We can see the Earth from space, we don't have that complete kind of evidence for evolution

    A christian scientist who was presenting the third point that I raised in the original question said he doesn't believe in a deceptive God that would make it seem as though all organisms share a common ancestor without a slither of a doubt but in reality we came from Adam and Eve of which there is almost no objective evidence.
    I certainly do not believe in a deceptive God either, God created in the way he knew best, but how can mankind know the mind of God, are we able to create the universe and life, we have much to learn. If God can create millions of species with a similar DNA, could it just be the best way?

    Evolution is interesting, and it challenges our mind to think, but what does evolution inspire us to do? Scriptures on the other hand are an inspiration for us to change.

    In the spirit of searching for God and justice for all people

    Eric.
    1 | Likes noraina liked this post
    serious scientific discussion about evolution

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  18. Report bad ads?
  19. #15
    Mahir Adnan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    39
    Threads
    3
    Reputation
    10
    Rep Power
    1
    Likes (Given)
    46
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Re: serious scientific discussion about evolution

    brother, what's the point of this post?? can you explain in short?
    please visit : DNA of Human and chimpanzee

    DNA of Human and chimpanzee
    Atheists claim that chimp and human possess 98% similar DNA. But truth is,there lies a huge difference. Because, calculation of percentage is not accur...

  20. #16
    MuhammadHamza1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    258
    Threads
    34
    Reputation
    366
    Rep Power
    5
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    67

    Re: serious scientific discussion about evolution

    Please see the video in this article.
    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy. - Page 5
    Assalamu Alaikum. Please note. 1)-That the Earth has to be billions of years old for the theory of evolution to be true.Evolution is a slow process tha...

Hey there! serious scientific discussion about evolution Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. serious scientific discussion about evolution
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Scientific Miracles
    By Chase in forum Discover Islam
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-31-2014, 11:19 AM
  2. Scientific Errors
    By Shukri18 in forum Comparative religion
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 04-02-2009, 02:51 AM
  3. Scientific Jokes.
    By Encolpius in forum Halal Fun
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-29-2007, 12:45 AM
  4. *!* The Scientific Miracles *!*
    By Khayal in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 05-16-2007, 03:18 AM
  5. The Scientific Miracles Of The Qur'an
    By elesteraci in forum Qur'an
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-01-2006, 10:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create