Does the Quran say the universe is infinite or finite?

format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha

No it's because our minds are nothing compared to the complexities. We do not even use 5% of our brain capacity, how can we even begin to say that we understand anything ?

I see. Indeed, the complexities of life should be evident for the existence of Allah, for those who give thought.

Only the Being of Allaah is infinite and us there from eternity , everything else , including the universe , come into existence by the will of Allaah.

The universe , although is constantly expanding , is finite and it will be destroyed at some stage . It will be then reconstituted to better suit the afterlife .

And Allâh Ta’ala knows best

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

Why don't you accept Allah / God as the Creator of the universe? Who has no beginning or end? Why do you insist on denying Allah?

You make it sound so simple. Oh I wish it was as simple as you claim. Let's look at what I am risking by denying Allah.

I am risking not seeing my mother again.
I am risking going to hellfire fore eternity!

You honestly for a single second that someone would willingly risk having this happen to them if they believe in Allah lol? If I believed in Allah I was try to be the best Muslim in the world! I would be so worried about this punishment that I would not do a single thing to jeopardise my future in heaven. So again I reiterate myself, I am not choosing to go against god. It's out of my control.

I want to ask you one thing, please don't get offended by it.

You say that something cannot come from nothing and something cannot have always existed, but then you go on to accept that Allah has always existed? How can this be?

If Allah (which is a thing) can exist without creation, why can't the energy, which is also a thing? You consider Allah to be a person what if Allah IS the universe? This would then tie in with the universe having always existed, because Allah is the universe?

Just a though. Do Muslims think Allah is a person? Like a "man in the sky" or do they think he is some other object or what? Since energy is indestructible and cannot be created or destroyed, it would make sense that Alllah is energy. Which means Allah is the universe. Please explain in a kind manner

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

Allah is not the universe, nor is He SWT energy. Nor is Allah an item. He SWT is a conscious being, and this universe has been created, it had a beginning. It is expanding, one day Allah SWT will destroy it and rebuild it to suit the Akhira/herafter.

Everything that has been created, must have a creator. This whole universe had a beginning, cause by definition, any creation must have a beginning thus a cause.

Cause before the universe began, it didn't exist, there had to be someone to initiate the universe. As for Allah SWT, Allah has NO start, or beginning, He SWT is uncaused.

Nothing is like Allah SWT. Energy is created by Allah SWT. Just because it is indestructible by us, or can not be 'made' by us, doesn't mean Allah SWT can't.

It may be well that Allah SWT made a closed loop for energy, Allah transgresses time and space. Allah SWT is the lawgiver. Allah is not bound by the rules of this universe.

May Allah SWT guide you, keep reading the Quran, and always question yourself.

Read this thoroughly:and contemplate.

I am not knowledgable so I may not be able to answer all questions.

Thank you Serenity.

You say the universe came into existence but this is not proven yet. The big bang is not necessarily the absolutely beginning of energy. In the cyclic model, the universe has always existed, like infinity never ends, negative infinity never had a start. It has been happening forever. Strange concept I know, but also remember that Allah has always existed and will always exist, so it's not much different. The only difference is one is conscious, the other is not.

The universe is expanding and in the cyclic model once the universe gets so larger it can no longer support it's own structure, the universe will collapse back to a singularity, then all this energy has to go somewhere, because energy cannot be destroyed, it has no space left to move so it causes another big bang which recreates the universe. Again I know this must sound strange and totally stupid to you but for me it makes perfect sense, just like god sounds strange to me but to you it makes perfect sense.


I'll have a read through that link.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

Fact is the universe had a beginning. Allah is outside creation, outside the laws of everything. Allah is not subject to His laws.

We have the Quran which says that the Universe was created by Allah. Only Allah SWT is the Eternal, the Universe isn't.

I don't want to discuss tho anymore. Btw, you sound like someone I know, are you a pathological liar?

your story about your mom, your affirmations etc. makes me suspect that you are someone I know.

Be honest - are you Curious Kafir from UF?

The difference between you and us is that we believe in Allah, we may not understand/comphrehend His essence, etc. But we accept His existence.

Just because one's mind can't comphrehend something doesn't mean it is impossible.

What? I am not a liar... I am just going by what science thinks. I'm not making it up. Google cyclic model and you'll see.

What is UF? I doubt we know each other, unless you know me in real life?

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

you just sound very familiar to someone I know. I've a urge to doubt you, but I won't. Not good manners lol.

Anyways, may Allah SWT guide you. Ameen.

It is just because you said - your mom is dead - you said:

"I am risking not seeing my mother again.
I am risking going to hellfire fore eternity!

You honestly for a single second that someone would willingly risk having this happen to them if they believe in Allah lol? If I believed in Allah I was try to be the best Muslim in the world! I would be so worried about this punishment that I would not do a single thing to jeopardise my future in heaven. "

Which sounds like someone I know. lol.

I've a strong feeling you'll convert to Islam. Although Allah SWT knows best.

You're got me paranoid now lol. Do you think you know me in real life? Or you're saying I sound like someone you've spoken to online before?

Anyway I doubt I'll convert, I'm here to just learn a bit and chat about various things. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

format_quote Originally Posted by Hi, I'm James.

You're got me paranoid now lol. Do you think you know me in real life? Or you're saying I sound like someone you've spoken to online before?

Anyway I doubt I'll convert, I'm here to just learn a bit and chat about various things. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I think I heard that before......... you said before that you just want to know more about Islam or something and then you got a dream, and then you converted to Islam, you cried cuz you saw your mom and asked your mom "where is God?" your mom said "the answer is with the Quran" or something........ Then you made a thread and revealed yourself to be a pathological liar.

I wouldn't be surprised if you started over again.

The cyclical model sounds unconvincing and way too confusing...... like trying to clash 2 opposing attributes or something.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

I think I heard that before......... you said before that you just want to know more about Islam or something and then you got a dream, and then you converted to Islam, you cried cuz you saw your mom and asked your mom "where is God?" your mom said "the answer is with the Quran" or something........ Then you made a thread and revealed yourself to be a pathological liar.

I wouldn't be surprised if you started over again.

The cyclical model sounds unconvincing and way too confusing...... like trying to clash 2 opposing attributes or something.

I think you're smoking something you should not be? Lol ok jokes a side. I don't know who this person if you think I am but I'm just a regular Joe asking some simple questions.

Again, thanks for explaining how you see things about god and the universe.

format_quote Originally Posted by Hi, I'm James.

I think you're smoking something you should not be? Lol ok jokes a side. I don't know who this person if you think I am but I'm just a regular Joe asking some simple questions.

Again, thanks for explaining how you see things about god and the universe.

Well, again, I wouldn't be surprised, cause the one I know revealed himself to be a pathological liar, and those liars hide quite well, they make themselves believe whatever they want so one can't know they lie..

Ok I will stop doubting you. lol.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

Nah, He SWT made it as such, that we'd know He SWT created it.

Btw, I don't think this universe is infinite.. I mean, take a database, where there is information, you'd normally, and understandibly ask "who put the information IN the database? Who coded the information?"

Similiarily I think with the creation, "Who initiated it? Who coded us?" etc.. to me it is logical that there is a Creator.

But to say the universe is infinite doesn't make sense. Cause any created being must have a beginning. Anything with a beginning must have an end.

I'd like to share an ayat:

“We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth”

[Fussilat 41:53].

The universe can not create itself. I believe it is Allah SWT that created it, as it sounds more rational....... And makes more sense.

We say Allah SWT is The Eternal, with no beginning or end, who created this universe. Which has a beginning.

May Allah SWT grant you guidance. Ameen. Read the Quran, it will make you think.

The above answer is probably as good as it gets.. Nice Quranic quote.


How is the universe flat? ...the earths not flat 0_0

...probably.

I'm kidding but only just.

format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.

The above answer is probably as good as it gets.. Nice Quranic quote.


How is the universe flat? ...the earths not flat 0_0

...probably.

I'm kidding but only just.

It's not flat like a piece of paper... Because we live in a 3D world, but it's flat as in there is not curvature of space. So if you set off in 1 direction, you will never come back to where you started. Unlike Earth, you will eventually come back to where you started.

format_quote Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah

Greetings James,


(sigh) Science doesn't "think". It is not a conscious entity. When you refer to it this way, it sounds as if this is your deity...

Furthermore, please look at the post and link I posted earlier about the curvature of space-time (you seem to think it is Euclidean). I also asked you to give a reliable reference for your initial assertions (in your original post).

Theoretical physics is indeed a fascinating and enjoyable area of thought... but I question whether you really understand that upon which you are basing your ideas and arguments. (mildly) And it seems to me, that without a good grounding in the ideas you want to discuss, it is doubtful whether we can have any kind of meaningful and fruitful discussion.


May God Bless you.

Hi MuslimInshallah. I cannot post links at the moment because I am not a full member. You're right I do not have much knowledge in this area so I am just relaying what I have read from sources like NASA and other popular science sources. When I say "science thinks" I mean the scientific community. Scientists.

Scientists have been correct about so many things, why should we suddenly doubt their abilities when they start exploring the universe? I'm not saying they're 100% correct because of course sometimes they are wrong with certain things. They can only be as sure as the evidence they acquire. Ultimately the universe is there for us to explore and it has answers to questions we cannot even begin to even think about asking. It has answers to questions we don't even know what the questions are yet lol.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

I mean, I could see why the universe could be like paper, but it does have a beginning, and anything with a beginning must have an end..

For now, it may seem as if the universe is ever-expanding. Thus one may think it is infinite, but I don't think it is, cause in the Quran, afaik, Allah will roll up the heavens, or something like that. It will have an end.

But one thing is for sure, the universe is not infinite, it had a beginning.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong.
Allahu alam.

The soul has a beginning and yet it is is immortal. Which means that something which has a beginning, can have no ending. Like the universe.