I'm not sure how learning English will help stop extremism either, many of those who have carried out/plotted atrocities have been highly educated. Speaking English does not promote integration into British, American and Australian societies, and broaden opportunities. English speaking Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist, thanks to state schools with monolingual non-Muslim teachers and English language. English language is not only a lingua franca but also lingua frankensteinia. Human right are also covers linguistic right. Cultural and linguistic genocide are very common. British schooling is murdering community languages like Arabic, Urdu and others. English is today the world killer language. Linguistic genocide is a crime against humanity and British schooling is guilty of committing this crime. Language is not just a language. It defines one's culture, identity and consciousness. It defines how we think, communicate and express ourselves. The fact is the most South Asian Muslims have come to know Islam by way of Urdu, the children's alienation from the language that connects them the heritage of their parents and grandparents is disturbing. As a matter of fact, one has to get to know his mother tongue well if one is to master any other language.
The Prime Minister has privately argued that one of the main reasons why young Muslim males fall under the spell of fanatics is because their mothers have too much of a subordinate role within their communities to argue against the influence of the extremists.Just another narrow minded attempt to deionise Muslims, by yet another link to terrorism. This has nothing to do with extremism and David Cameron an idiot for trying to link the two. What an idiot....Muslim women should learn English, I think he means immigrants need to learn English. Cameron's an idiot, most Muslim women were born here and educated here.
Cameron has NO interest in integrating people, whatever their creed or race. The Tories are ALL about division, the rich go one way and get all the benefits and the poor get 'stuffed'. Been like that for over a hundred years They are supported by their non-Dom friends in the media. We have the farce of Labour being branded 'fiscally incompetent' and yet George Osborne's financial Miracle has doubled the National debt. You won't hear that in the media. The recession was caused by banking crisis and largely the government's and bankers fault, and instead of holding them accountable, people turned around and blamed immigrants. Even in the last election people kept banging on about how immigrants are stealing benefits, yet people failed to recognise that the credit crunch and its horrible aftermath wasn't caused by immigrants....and all political parties enforced the anti-immigrant sentiment. Typical divide and conquer tactics.
He is expected to call for more Muslim women to learn the language so they can make advances in the job market and take on a more influential role.
Prime Minister David Cameron will call on Muslim women to learn English to counter extremism. Living in UK, obviously one needs to know English. However David the Pig abuser should know better, Knowing English does NOT prevent TERRORISM. HATE breeds HATE. TERROR breeds TERRORISM.
Mr Cameron has been shocked by the fact that at least 700 people from the UK – the vast majority of them young males – have travelled to support or fight for jihadist groups in Syria and Iraq, with about half having since returned to Britain. Most who have gone are thought to have joined Islamic State. They are the product of British schooling and well versed in English language nd not in their mother tongues and Arabic.
He has argued with advisers that he needs to ‘lift the horizons’ of women in those areas where the language barrier contributes to them being trapped outside the workforce. Male Muslims are the most integrated people going they do far more than anybody when it comes to charity and live side by side and work with every different background unlike David Cameron who lives in a very segregated area like the vast majority of Zionist do.
Why do we have a pop at Mr Trump when David Cameron seems quite happy to discriminate against Muslims himself with this idea of deporting Muslims' who haven't learned English within a certain time period; (bearing in mind that English is supposed to be one of the hardest languages to learn). You can't say that David Cameron's policy idea is exactly 'Muslim friendly'. And why doesn't he deport the Polish, the Czech, and not forgetting the Chinese students in this country's universities? When I was studying at university, I found that Chinese students', who had supposedly learned English before they could study in Britain, couldn't actually speak the language at all. I think there is a bit of money passing around to get these students in. The fact that they also pay large sums of money in tuition fees annually may be the reason the government leaves them alone. Strange that. Hey, we could just deport everyone who can't speak fluid English. David Cameron would have loads of space then and it'd keep the economic cost down .
If David Cameron's idea becomes law, the only thing that this will do, is discriminate against Muslims by forcing people who are living within a very close knit community and splitting them up. Single mothers, who have fled tensions in their own country for a safer life in Britain with their children. How can we slag off Donald Trump for his comments when our government is thinking of doing the same?
The Muslim Council of Britain has objected to what it describes as an attempt to place responsibility for extremism entirely on Britain’s Muslim population, arguing that they are also ‘struggling to challenge the terrorist narrative’. Beat fanatics by teaching them English? The national language here in Israel is Hebrew. Terrorists and their terrorist harbouring families here know Hebrew - children terrorists know Hebrew. The man is an idiot. He cannot seriously believe the guff written above. If they learn English and go out and get a job, they will stop young Muslims being radicalised. The man is an incompetent feminised man, who measures everything by women taking men's jobs. Does he understand nothing at all. The UK was targeted for many years by IRA Terrorists , and THEY all spoke English , So Cameron , what is your point???????????
A man is the product of his culture, language and faith. Muslim community is different from the host community as far as culture, language and faith is concerned. Muslim children must develop their cultural, linguistic and spiritual identity before they are exposed to wider world, otherwise, they would be lost in western jungle. British schooling is the home of institutional racism. The result is that Muslim children are unable to develop self-confidence and self-esteem. Racism is deeply rooted in British society. British schools are not doing enough to tackle racism and promote race relations. Many teachers are unaware of racist attitudes amongst pupils. Muslim children also need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods.
None of 7/7 bombers and British Muslim youths who are in Syria and Iraq are the product of Muslim schools. They are the product of British schooling which is the home of institutional racism with chicken racist native teachers. It is absurd to believe that Muslim schools, Imams and Masajid teach Muslim children anti-Semitic, homophobic and anti-western views. It is dangerously deceptive and misleading to address text books and discuss them out of their historical, cultural and linguistic context. It is not wrong to teach children that Jews are committing the same cruelty in Palestine what German did to them before or during Second World War. It is not wrong to teach children that anti-social behaviour, drinking, drugs, homosexuality, sex before marriage, teenage pregnancies and abortions are western values and Islam is against all such sins. This does not mean that Muslim schools teach children to hate westerners, Jews and homosexuals.
Muslim children must learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time he must learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural heritage and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. The whole world belongs to Muslims.
I have always said, the more languages you know, the broader your cultural knowledge. Those who say you must only use one language narrow their perception of the world. Also, people who can learn languages are good at playing musical instruments. Languages should be taught more in school. When I speak in Arabic I feel like a poet and when in English, I feel like a philosopher. "This mental flexibility pays big dividends especially later in life: the typical signs of cognitive ageing occur later in bilinguals – and the onset of age-related degenerative disorders such as dementia or Alzheimer’s are delayed in bilinguals by up to five years." We are amazed by being able to speak multilingual which is great Ever thought of the One God Creator Who made these languages.
I have been campaigning for state funded Muslim schools for the last 45 years. I set up the first Muslim school in London in 1981. Now there are 188 schools and only 18 schools are state funded. I would like to see each and every Muslim child in a state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers. I hope my dream would come true one day.
Indiscipline, incivility, binge drinking, drug addiction, gun and knife crimes, teenage pregnancies and abortion are part and parcel of British schooling. These are the reasons why majority of Muslim parents would like to send their children to Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Only less than 10% attend Muslim schools and more than 90% keep on attending state and church schools to be mis-educated and de-educated by non-Muslim monolingual teachers.
There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies. This means the Muslim children will get a decent education. Muslim schools turned out balanced citizens, more tolerant of others and less likely to succumb to criminality or extremism. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
IA http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Muslim children must learn Arabic as a religious language and English as an economic language. At the same time Muslim children from the sub-continent must learn Urdu as a social and emotional language and enjoy the beauty of Urdu literature and poetry.
Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
" Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "
Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.
I strongly agree Arabic is the first and most important language all muslims should learn and only after that English should be considered at it is a global language. However, I am sorry but I do not believe any other languages are important to learn unless they are forced upon you by your parents when you were young. As far as Urdu is concerned I do not see any benefit in going out your way to learn it and saying it is an emotional and social language does not justify its use.
A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. The whole world belongs to him/her.
Muslim children must learn and be well versed English to follow the National Curriculum and go fog higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time they must learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural heritage and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.
"Must" learn Urdu? I disagree with that. It is better to say "May" learn Urdu. "There is benefit in learning Urdu." The only language Muslims "must" learn is Arabic.
The reason we have to stress this is because there are certain people who promote the idea that Urdu is the language of Islaam and the language every Muslim must know. In fact, if you go to many Darul Ulooms and Madaaris which teach the Dars-e-Nizami syllabus, you will find that the classes are taught through Urdu, and that if a student who doesn't speak Urdu enrolls, he first has to spend a year learning Urdu before he can start the `Aalim Faadhil course.
Arabic is the most important since it is the source language of the final revelation and understanding the revelation of God in source language leads to spiritual well being, as we can see from the state of affairs, spiritual well being is an essential must in order to survive the corruptive onslaught.
With English, it is the most widely spoken language around the world and on the internet and many new scientific and Islamic scholarly articles are being churned out in English so it is useful to be able to speak at least a little.
The relevance of rest of the other languages are declining fast and i believe it's a waste of precious brain matter to focus on them too much, just enough to get by locally depending on where you are.
I think cameron's aims are darker though, he doesn't appear the type to care about Muslim women other than the fact that throwing them into the corrupted society and corrupting them might "integrate" them further and you never know, he might even squeeze some taxes out of them. Kid's less likely to think about God and more about slags if mom and sis wear shorts and watch east enders, strictly come dancing and other corruptive kaafir tv programming.
That's my thesis.
Hadhrat `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه insisted that Muslims should learn Arabic. He said, "Learn Arabic, because it is part of your Deen."
Time that could be spent learning it is instead wasted in futile pursuits and accumulating an abundance of useless information which will neither benefit the person in this world nor in the Aakhirah.
It is part of the Talbees (deceptions) of Iblees to take people from doing something important to doing something less important, if he is not able to take them all the way to sin. This is apparent even in an issue such as Arabic. Besides the Arab `Ulamaa, how many of the non-Arab `Ulamaa are able to converse fluently in Arabic? Too much time in the Madaaris is spent drilling Urdu and Urdu poetry into the heads of the students, as though the Qur'aan was revealed in Urdu. If even a portion of the emphasis given to Urdu had been given to Arabic, students would have been fluent in the language. And fluency in Arabic translates into better understanding of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, which is the primary goal behind learning it in the first place.
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Hadhrat `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه insisted that Muslims should learn Arabic. He said, "Learn Arabic, because it is part of your Deen."
Time that could be spent learning it is instead wasted in futile pursuits and accumulating an abundance of useless information which will neither benefit the person in this world nor in the Aakhirah.
It is part of the Talbees (deceptions) of Iblees to take people from doing something important to doing something less important, if he is not able to take them all the way to sin. This is apparent even in an issue such as Arabic. Besides the Arab `Ulamaa, how many of the non-Arab `Ulamaa are able to converse fluently in Arabic? Too much time in the Madaaris is spent drilling Urdu and Urdu poetry into the heads of the students, as though the Qur'aan was revealed in Urdu. If even a portion of the emphasis given to Urdu had been given to Arabic, students would have been fluent in the language. And fluency in Arabic translates into better understanding of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, which is the primary goal behind learning it in the first place.
Got to keep in mind that up until the current generation, literacy wasn't as it is now, most countries had barely begun to understand the depth of Islam (some are still weaning themselves off previous jahiliyyah practices and superstitions), most Islamic books in asia were written in Urdu and luckily were available to read to the less learned, but yes, the focus needs to be on learning Arabic, it's not foreign any more and learning resources are now widespread.
I still remember one of our teachers saying:
Madrasah hai baaghe jannath,
Mu'allim hai khushboo aur phool,
Sheher is me 'ilme deen hai,
Tuaalib hai bulbool.
The secularists and extremist hindus in Bangladesh knew that the Urdu language was a means for Islamic education and they revolted against it being used as the national language, maybe it was for the good since they got devided and both ended up with secularist puppets who defraud them. Now that Urdu hasn't become a mammoth language and they're all declining and using english, they can focus on learning Islam in pure form.
We lose a lot of the scholarly works and teachings of intellectuals due to language limitations, if an intellectual writes a book in Bangla or Urdu, only the few who understand it buy and read it - unless it's so monumental (like abu al a'la maudoodi) that it gets translated into hundreds of languages. Still, the efforts are appreciated since so many who don't know Arabic get to read.
Yes, which is why I said that there is benefit in learning Urdu. There are good Kitaabs which are available only in Urdu. However, everything a Muslim needs for his Deen, is in Arabic.
The issue is this: Time is limited. A student studying in Madrasah generally only becomes fluent in one of the two languages he's forced to learn: Either Arabic, or Urdu.
Now, in many Darul Ulooms and Madaaris in SA, Urdu is taught as a primary language. Students are all required to learn Urdu. This includes not only the Indian and Pakistani students whose language it is, but even the coloured, Malay and African students. They are required to spend at least a year learning Urdu, and then do the `Aalim Faadhil course through Urdu. However, many do not acquire sufficient fluency in the language during that year, and as a result, you have a catastrophe: They don't really understand the classes they are doing, and end up missing out on all that was taught. Ask the student after he's gone through one day in the class, "What can you tell me about what you've learnt today?" He'd be stumped. His first language is Afrikaans, or Xhosa, etc. Now, he's forced to learn Urdu, and he doesn't know why he has to learn this language. To the student, it looks like racism, having this language of India and Pakistan forced on him. He understands English and the Ustaadh doing the Dars understands English, both of them can converse fluently in English, yet there is an insistence that the classes be taught through the medium of Urdu. The Ustaadh will speak only Urdu.
What does this cause? It makes that the student has to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to learn and master the Urdu language so as to understand the lessons, but as a result of that, he's not giving 10% of that amount of time and effort into learning Arabic, because there isn't time and he's too tired from learning Urdu.
This method of teaching is counter productive.
It is much better to teach students in their own language. Here in SA, everyone can understand English. Let the classes be in English. Instead, Urdu is forced even on students who have no connection with India and Pakistan.
The Asaatidhah make statements like, "People Must learn Urdu. It is a Roohaani language. It was the language of the Akaabireen, etc." Yes, no doubt, it was the language of the Akaabireen `Ulamaa of the Indo-Pak Subcontinent. No one denies this, and no one would be so foolish and insolent as to show disrespect to our senior `Ulamaa, all of whom were much wiser than we are, and above all, much, much better Muslims and people than we are.
What I am saying is that as a result of how people enforce languages for cultural reasons, Arabic gets taken out of the picture. It gets given a backseat. No emphasis is given to being able to speak it fluently. As long as the students have learnt the Nahw and Sarf in the Kitaabs, that's fine. Urdu is what they must be able to speak. That's the mentality.
Last edited by Huzaifah ibn Adam; 09-06-2016 at 09:27 AM.
The children from the sub-continent must learn Urdu language because it is a lingua francua and majority of TV Channels have been broadcasting in Urdu/Hindi. Our children learn from such media to speak Urdu but they do not know how to read and write. Of course, all Muslims must learn Arabic as a religious language.
The children from the sub-continent must learn Urdu language because it is a lingua francua and majority of TV Channels have been broadcasting in Urdu/Hindi. Our children learn from such media to speak Urdu but they do not know how to read and write. Of course, all Muslims must learn Arabic as a religious language.
Yes, those living in the Indo-Pak Subcontinent will of course need to know the language. They wouldn't be able to get along without it. I don't think anyone has a problem with this. It's only when people start promoting the belief that every person in the world from every race must learn Urdu, that we strongly disagree. Those living outside of India/Pakistan who want to learn Urdu, can learn it. It's beneficial to know it. Those who don't want to, don't have to. It shouldn't be forced.
Yes. That's a very important point. It is very difficult to be translating from Arabic into Urdu when you barely know both! In addition, you are expected to just "pick it up" in the first year to be able to then master Arabic through Urdu in the second year! Most of the time I would only get the "just" of all that was said. Although I had an advantage of having learned basic Arabic in school, so I could manage it and persevere. But what happens to those who are demotivated and drop out?
Also, Urdu is learned mostly through speaking, it doesn't have many rules like Arabic does- so sometimes forming simple sentences can be challenging. So what you understand in English from Arabic doesn't help much because the requirement is to write, read and memorise in Urdu.
It takes tears, more tears and many sleepless nights to actually learn everyday in this way. Afterall, who would be happy to just pass. Do your best in everything you do.
One of my Asaatidha once told me himself that he doesn't understand why Urdu is the medium and he quoted the aayah in Surah Ibraheem : " وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا بِلِسَانِ
قَوْمِهِ لِيُبَيِّنَ لَهُمْ"
In the beginning, I would translate Ahadeeth from Arabic to Urdu not knowing the English-so it felt as though I did not benefit at all, nor would I be able to benefit others. الحمد لله through sacrifice and Du'aa it gets easier-But it's not the same as when you learn in your mother-tongue. A lot of valuable information and advices mentioned in a Dars is lost due to lack of understanding the language.
I often console myself with the thought: "The more sacrifice the more the reward" إن شاء الله
Yes. That's a very important point. It is very difficult to be translating from Arabic into Urdu when you barely know both! In addition, you are expected to just "pick it up" in the first year to be able to then master Arabic through Urdu in the second year! Most of the time I would only get the "just" of all that was said. Although I had an advantage of having learned basic Arabic in school, so I could manage it and persevere. But what happens to those who are demotivated and drop out?
Also, Urdu is learned mostly through speaking, it doesn't have many rules like Arabic does- so sometimes forming simple sentences can be challenging. So what you understand in English from Arabic doesn't help much because the requirement is to write, read and memorise in Urdu.
It takes tears, more tears and many sleepless nights to actually learn everyday in this way. Afterall, who would be happy to just pass. Do your best in everything you do.
One of my Asaatidha once told me himself that he doesn't understand why Urdu is the medium and he quoted the aayah in Surah Ibraheem : " وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا بِلِسَانِ
قَوْمِهِ لِيُبَيِّنَ لَهُمْ"
In the beginning, I would translate Ahadeeth from Arabic to Urdu not knowing the English-so it felt as though I did not benefit at all, nor would I be able to benefit others. الحمد لله through sacrifice and Du'aa it gets easier-But it's not the same as when you learn in your mother-tongue. A lot of valuable information and advices mentioned in a Dars is lost due to lack of understanding the language.
I often console myself with the thought: "The more sacrifice the more the reward" إن شاء الله
Yes, this is exactly what I'm speaking about. It is Zhulm on the poor students to do this to them. When they can be taught in their own language, why insist on teaching them through Urdu unnecessarily? It severely impedes the progress of the students. If they do manage to learn anything at all, it's remarkable. That's why you have many students graduating from Madaaris and yet can't translate a single `Ibaarah from any of the Kutub (Fiqh or otherwise) which they had done in the class.
The students I've taught Arabic to, I've taught through English. That's the language they understand, so I was never going to force them to study Urdu first and have the classes done through Urdu. That is a waste of valuable time on everybody's part.
I'm fluent in Urdu, and found it to be a very easy and nice language, but I will never enforce it on anyone. There's no need for a student to learn it if he/she doesn't want to. In Deen, only Arabic is important. The Qur'aan and Sunnah is in Arabic.
Also, I don't believe that when learning or teaching Arabic you have to just stick with the Kitaabs of the Darse Nizami syllabus, like Hidaayat-un-Nahw, Nahw Meer, Munsha'ib, Fusool-e-Akbari, etc. Again, those Kitaabs are in Urdu, taught through Urdu, so students not fluent in Urdu will not benefit from the Dars. Instead, I would teach Tasheel-un-Nahw, Min Kunooz-is-Sarf, Duroos-ul-Lughatil `Arabiyyah li-Ghayrin Naatiqeen Bihaa (volumes one, two and three), etc. These Kitaabs are in English and the students can understand them much more easily. In addition to that, I also taught Tarkeeb. Now, usually Tarkeeb is only taught through Urdu; Sharh Mi'ati Aamil in particular. However, I did a translation and commentary of Maulana Ahsan Nanotwi's "Hall-e-Tarkeeb" (Urdu) , which can be downloaded via the following link:
Students will In Shaa Allaah find it much easier - when starting out - to learn the basics of Tarkeeb from this Kitaab. It is in English and is very simple and easy to understand.
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