Why do so many Muslims condemn trans people? Let me explain a little bit.
The Quran talles about the two sexes, male and female. Sex, as contrary to many believe, have nothing to do with gender. Gender is a social construct that gives us a means to identify ourselves (whether we identify as man, woman, non-binary, gender nonconforming, agender, bigender, trigender, pangender, demigemder, amd all the other identities).
Sex on the other hand refers to genitalia and gonads: meaning a penis, testes, vulva, ovaries. Now I have to ask the question of, why does it matter if your gender identity "aligns" with your sex? Why does it matter what gender someone identifies as?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Quran repeatedly talks about two sexes, but NOT about gender. From this you can take a stance that it doesn't matter about identity, so long as you don't change your genitalia. Yet if you do this, you have to reconcile with the fact that Iran, a country with Islam as the national religion, conducts the second most amount of sex reassignment surgeries out of all known countries (mainly because they see it as a cure for being gay).
This all brings me back to my original question of why do so many Muslims condemn gender minorities? Is there some part of the Holy Quran that talks about gender identities that I missed?
I support gender minorities, and I can't quite understand why others don't. Hope the rant wasn't too long for some of you.
Today's Muslims seem to be the only "apologists" around.
They're like the emasculated males who feel the need to "apologise" to the feminists for "the crimes perpetrated by some from the male gender". Why are you apologising for things you didn't do? Grow a backbone.
Last edited by Huzaifah ibn Adam; 09-27-2016 at 03:10 PM.
"It is not right for a woman to be dressed in man's clothing, or for a man to put on a woman's robe: whoever does such things is disgusting to the Lord, your God." [Deuteronomy, 22:5]
I'm not going to reserve comment about the morality of transgender for now, but something occurred to me: This is a relatively new phenomenon in history. There have been men who dress as women in history, but that's usually for a different reason. Along with anti-depressants, one of the most common things found in drinking water is estrogen. Maybe this has something to do with it? It's worth exploring from a medical perspective. In the meantime... drink bottled water!
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
It's because people these days have become "Muslims for the sake of the Kuffaar". Not for the sake of Allaah anymore. Nowadays, people want to make Islaam subservient to the Kuffaar and their satanic desires. They make their whole religion about pleasing a Kaafir. As if a Muslim owes a Kaafir anything. They would gladly lick the backsides of the Kuffaar. Free-of-charge, too.
Spineless, neutered, emasculated...
Abz used to always have that quote in his signature: "Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor."
I'm radically opposed to reforming Islam to please the Kuffaar. However, I see no instances of that on this thread. Only someone who is genuinely concerned because the matter hits close to home.
Let me get this straight, there is no accident when it comes to gender, Allah decreed for everyone to be the gender they are
if someone is created as a male but has urges to dress and act womanly then this is peversion from the shaitaan, this is corruption that has happened to the soul
as for medical conditions id rather not speak on them as i do not have the knowledge
i dont know why so many people are being politically correct on this thread either, Islam strongly condemns men who dress up as women, Islam is submission to the will of Allah not submission to perverted desires
There are genetic faults in everybody life is not perfect. Some people are born deformed or spastic others have gender issues, sexuality issues. How is a hermaphrodite meant to act and dress? There are effeminate males wandering around in Saudi Arabia with burqas on and no one would know. But they would be considered freaks if they dressed like a male.
There have been men who dress as women in history ...
If it is their dress code that disturbs, then let them dress distinctively as Kapı Ağası. The Ottoman Sultan-Khalif liberally employed sex-operated men dressed like that. So, that solution ought to be enough, also for us, no?
There are genetic faults in everybody life is not perfect. Some people are born deformed or spastic others have gender issues, sexuality issues. How is a hermaphrodite meant to act and dress? There are effeminate males wandering around in Saudi Arabia with burqas on and no one would know. But they would be considered freaks if they dressed like a male.
i said i did not want to speak on medical conditions. i dont have the knowledge, if it is that important to you go speak to an islamic scholar
Last edited by eesa the kiwi; 09-28-2016 at 05:32 AM.
“Allah gave you a gift of 86,000 seconds today, have you used one to say ‘Alhamdulilah"
Indeed, we only need a solution for effeminate males. It should not be open to women, because they can marry and have children without any inner drive or desire at all. For a man, it would not work. A man without inner drive or desire cannot marry. So, what is he supposed to do? People without clearly appointed social function may find themselves excluded or even attacked. That will not bring peace.
i said i did not want to speak on medical conditions. i dont have the knowledge, if it is that important to you go speak to an islamic scholar
But the thing is, being born hermaphroditic or a female being accidentally born with male genitalia IS really a medical condition. You make judgment on those kind of individuals yet you say you have no knowledge of medical conditions. Such a position seems odd to me.
But the thing is, being born hermaphroditic or a female being accidentally born with male genitalia IS really a medical condition. You make judgment on those kind of individuals yet you say you have no knowledge of medical conditions. Such a position seems odd to me.
i did not mean i have no knowledge on the condition, i meant i do not have knowledge on the islamic position of such medical conditions
what would you rather have me to do? Make things up about islam or give you my opinion without knowing it is correct or not
no thank you, id rather say i do not know
i repeat, if it really bothers you go to an islamic scholar
as for claiming every pevert that dresses up as a woman can not help it due to medical conditions, this is incorrect not all of them have medical conditions karl in fact most of them dont, these are the ones i can honestly say fall under this hadith
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Prophet (Allah's prayer and salvation be upon him) cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said: « Turn them out of your houses ». (Reported by Bukhari in his Sahih No. 5886)
In islam these people are cursed, im not going to sugarcoat the religion to make liberals happy, if "andrewk" doesnt llike it i suggest he takes it up with Allah on qiyamah and complains that i refused to show approval to his peverted desire of dressing up as a woman
he can see how far that will get him
“Allah gave you a gift of 86,000 seconds today, have you used one to say ‘Alhamdulilah"
I think that in some of the comments it is mixed two different terms: transgender and transsexual. I think the OP of this thread isn´t transsexual but transgender. Problem is that at the nowdays here are several new, different types of genders and sexual orientations and it´s hard to keep up which represents what.
I prefer the old-fashion style: here are men whose have borned as men and women whose have borned as women. Rest I don´t understand at all.
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
I don't have a view on transgendered people. I won't say whether I agree with them or not, but at the end of the day, if they genuinely believe something is wrong with them and they want to change it, that's their decision at the end of the day.
What bothers me is that they are educating young children about this and I think that is completely wrong. Imagine a child who likes to play with girls and dolls saying he wants to become a girl, and then a few years later decides he wants to become a boy again, how would that work? I think it's sick that my 8 and 5 year old nephews will be educated on this. Sorry, but it's just a no no. They are children. They want to play. Why tell them about these things at that age?
If it wasn't for that Keeping Up With The Kardashian man who became a woman (wasn't it on a bit of a whim? - I don't watch that show, I've watched one episode and it was ridiculous so sorry if it was "his journey" and he wanted to become a woman all along) and it wasn't such a celebrity thing to do, I doubt it would be this common.
Then you have other celebrities cross dressing and people think it's fun to imitate them. I have a lot of Muslim friends who adore Kanye West because he is meant to be a bad a$$ rapper, they all go to his concerts and want to be like him. Kanye sometimes dresses like a woman and walks about with a huge handbag type thing and some of my friends copy him. I think it's ridiculous. They think it's cool. I guess you just let them get on with it. Likewise with a lot of Muslim girls looking up to Rihanna who dresses like a man and they imitate. Oh and before someone rips my head off, I've mentioned Muslim people here because it's an up and coming thing. I've seen heaps of non Muslim men dressed like girls and vice versa. It's nothing new, it's normal I guess but with Muslims, it's something new I have noticed. That is all.
Surely as Muslims, they should be copying the Prophet and his wife/daughter and imitating them instead of some random muppet on television / music videos.
Last edited by hisnameiszzz; 09-28-2016 at 06:55 PM.
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
"It is not right for a woman to be dressed in man's clothing, or for a man to put on a woman's robe: whoever does such things is disgusting to the Lord, your God." [Deuteronomy, 22:5]
Well, that makes it pretty clear what God thinks of that. According to the Old Testament of the Bible. According to the Torah, within the Pentateuch which is within the Tanakh. Pretty clear indeed.
So how should that be enforced, Islamically speaking? What is the proper way in which to prohibit this and enforce it? Should it even be enforced in a secular society? That might be a starting point, but I think I know where you stand on that. Assuming it is enforced though, how should it be enforced?
Well, that makes it pretty clear what God thinks of that. According to the Old Testament of the Bible. According to the Torah, within the Pentateuch which is within the Tanakh. Pretty clear indeed.
So how should that be enforced, Islamically speaking? What is the proper way in which to prohibit this and enforce it? Should it even be enforced in a secular society? That might be a starting point, but I think I know where you stand on that. Assuming it is enforced though, how should it be enforced?
I know you weren't asking me but I thought you had an interesting question. Especially when you ask about how it should be enforced in a secular society. As muslims, we can't impose Islamic laws in non-Islamic societies. I personally feel disgusted but at the same time ,saddened by trans people who have gone full on through the operation. In fact, I mainly feel terribly sad for those unfortunate souls. Having said that, theres nothing I or anyone else can do.
as for claiming every pevert that dresses up as a woman can not help it due to medical conditions, this is incorrect not all of them have medical conditions karl in fact most of them dont, these are the ones i can honestly say fall under this hadith
I think the trouble here is that you are conflating two entirely separate things. What you are talking about is males who look morphologically male yet are muddled in the head to think that they are female, so they act and dress as females. I agree with you that these kind of people come across as ridiculous and DON'T have medical conditions (unless they have mental problems). Totally agree there. But these are TRANSVESTITES and I was not talking about transvestites, I was talking about hermaphrodites and also females accidentally born with a penis (otherwise known as "feminoids"). These DO fall under medical condition because the problem is purely physiological rather than degenerate perversion.
I think the trouble here is that you are conflating two entirely separate things. What you are talking about is males who look morphologically male yet are muddled in the head to think that they are female, so they act and dress as females. I agree with you that these kind of people come across as ridiculous and DON'T have medical conditions (unless they have mental problems). Totally agree there. But these are TRANSVESTITES and I was not talking about transvestites, I was talking about hermaphrodites and also females accidentally born with a penis (otherwise known as "feminoids"). These DO fall under medical condition because the problem is purely physiological rather than degenerate perversion.
Yes I am talking about transvestites
I also said I do not have sufficient Islamic knowledge to speak on medical conditions what part of that don't you understand
The majority of those who say they are transgender in today's world however are not medically hermaphrodite they are transvestites. These are cursed and I'm not going to say Islam says otherwise to please people
“Allah gave you a gift of 86,000 seconds today, have you used one to say ‘Alhamdulilah"
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