A few days ago,my muslim friends were challenged by an atheist,(the guy who seems to enjoy trolling Christians and Muslims in our high school) and he told them "If homosexuality is forbidden in Islam,then why did god make it natural?" at this point both of my friends were laughing,they thought he was just messing with them, annoying them in other words.And he actually proved this by showing a video,i cant say that I saw,but I was very confused at this moment,(I didn't join the discussion,i was just listening to them,and I did infact saw 2 giraffes doing homosexual acts,also the video changed and it was penguins) so there are homosexual animals out there,which apparently proves that homosexuality is natural.At this point both of my friends were quiet,he asking them why is it forbidden if god made it natural among animals? .. and there you got both of my muslim friends stunned by this mulhid (atheist) .
I did some research after this argument and apparently homosexuality is indeed natural (among animals aswell) .so the question to me...
If Allah forbid homosexuality among humans..then why is it natural?? and why does it exist among animals?? (I mean whats the point of animals having homosexual relationships?..) and obviously I'm having much wiswas over this..so I would like someone who understands this crystal clear and explain it..
Pigs eat their own shi?t, and yes, this is natural. Since it is natural to do so, tell the atheist to start eating his own shi?t in front of you. He is into doing all things "natural" anyway.
Animals eat each other. Therefore, eating each other is natural. Human beings should eat each other. Let's start with the Mulhid (atheist). Slaughter him, skin him, cut him up into ribs, chops, cutlets, even make some sausages and patties, marinate it and chuck it on a braai.
The sausages you can have on rolls, and the patties on burgers.
Confusion arises when people forget we are not animals.
The dividing line is - we have morals, character, dignity, etc. Animals don't.
tell them to go naked since animals do it. We are not animals and we do not follow them. Allah created animals who can fly. Created Iblees, etc.
tell them about sharks, they sometimes kill their own siblings. (Research it first, but I am sure I read about that)
Allah did not create us to imitate and follow animals. We know of animals who kill and eat their own mercilessly - how can you say it is merciless when Allah created them that way? Because Allah endowed us wigh morals that animals do not have.
Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
" Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "
Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.
So,this is all from god right? homosexuality is natural? right? and he wants to test us to see if he we will follow what he forbid,basically yes?
You need to understand the concept of fitrah in Islam. There isn't necessarily a direct translation of this word in English, but it sort of means our natural inclination or innateness. For example, everyone is born as a Muslim, this is a fitrah, until the parents of the child change his religion. So if you think of Ibraheem (as), even though everyone around him was an idolator, he was not because he was strong-willed in following his fitrah which was to believe in the Oneness of Allah swt. Most people don't remain nonMuslims because they've had a religious awareness, but rather because their parents and grandparents are of that faith. They have an emotional attachment to it, and as we know, when we are strongly attached to an idea or something, we do everything to make it logical and excusable in our minds. This is what's happening in the world today; they widely try to normalize homosexuality because they may have friends or family members who are homosexual.
Homosexuality is against our fitrah. It's either an abnormality (such as those who claim they were "born gay" or have other sexual conditions) or an abuse of one's fitrah (such as those who claim to be "bisexual" or "sexually experimental"). We are not animals; we can control our actions and even our feelings. Animals, however, cannot because they are instinctive. And even some animals who are affected by the environment can express some homosexual behaviors that are abnormal to their species.
Everything in this world happens with the Will of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. One thing that He wills is free choice. So if we have opportunities to do what is right, this is what we should choose. We are tested with everything, and there are consequences and rewards that come with them either in this world or the hereafter depending on our choices.
Last edited by *charisma*; 11-14-2016 at 04:14 PM.
Numerous species will eat their own young, even their own 'husbands', so in the name of freedom and equality for all this should be made legal, no?
And in direct regard to the homosexuality argument put forward by these kinds of people. When it is done in the animal world it is done to display dominance and show who's boss - it isn't done for pleasure and isn't *gasp* a sign of how liberal and 'forward-thinking' animals are. Animals are fundamentally different to humans - homosexuality is never natural or 'normal.
Honestly people should learn to at least argue their case better instead of using straw man arguments.
If an atheist wants to lower his worth to that of base animal carnal desires, then to define him as human would be an over statement, as by his own volition he would defend his right to be gay.
His argument, that being gay is natural is flawed, because if it was natural for us to have life long homosexual partnerships, the human race would be an endangered species.
Animals in the animal Kindgom will have homosexual encounters for whatever animalistic reasonings, I do not understand why and I will never get it (because its not natural lol) - to me it's the most unnatural thing. But are they only homosexual? or are they heterosexual? the latter, you will find is more accurate. That doesn't make the homosexual part ok. Duh.
Any human who claims homosexuality is natural, is most likely an atheist - meaning, not only do they not believe in God, but they do not have such an high opinion of humanity either - and therefore, justifying homosexuality with a flawed "naturalistic" argument is all they can really do.
It's not natural, it's not healthy, and it leads to HIV which could become AIDS.
So, to the atheist who adopts the view that homosexuality is natural - nice one, you just slapped the faces of your ancestors who actually had heterosxual marriages so you could be born, for what? To support a flawed argument ?
Cut nose - spite face, while I grab my popcorn bucket... fun fun.
Numerous species will eat their own young, even their own 'husbands', so in the name of freedom and equality for all this should be made legal, no?
And in direct regard to the homosexuality argument put forward by these kinds of people. When it is done in the animal world it is done to display dominance and show who's boss - it isn't done for pleasure and isn't *gasp* a sign of how liberal and 'forward-thinking' animals are. Animals are fundamentally different to humans - homosexuality is never natural or 'normal.
Honestly people should learn to at least argue their case better instead of using straw man arguments.
Asalaamualaykum Al Sultan
After reading all of the above answers and this answer that Noraina has given which says all the above sums up the argument is in reality true.
You dont have any idea under the Sun what is regarded as natural.
Some frogs in the amazon are even bisexual so that should now add to argument if bisexuality is "natural" (According to your "logic")
You also need to take a course on logistics because your argument is flawed by assuming he had the proof yet you havent investigated the issue.
Lets start this little logistics crush course for right now - you only say someone proved something when your yourself have a full complete investigation on the issue at hand.
Some researchers believe this behavior to have its origin in male social organization and social dominance, similar to the dominance traits shown in prison sexuality.
Others suggest the social function of sex (both homosexual and heterosexual) is not necessarily connected to dominance, but serves to strengthen alliances and social ties within a flock.
Others have argued that social organization theory is inadequate because it cannot account for some homosexual behaviors, for example, penguin species where male individuals mate for life and refuse to pair with females when given the chance.
Physiological basis
A definite physiological explanation or reason for homosexual activity in animal species has not been agreed upon by researchers in the field. Numerous scholars are of the opinion that varying levels (either higher or lower) of the sex hormones in the animal, in addition to the size of the animal's gonads, play a direct role in the sexual behavior and preference exhibited by that animal.
Additional studies pertaining to hormone involvement in homosexual behavior indicate that when administering treatments of testosterone and estradiol to female heterosexual animals, the elevated hormone levels increase the likelihood of homosexual behavior. Additionally, boosting the levels of sex hormones during an animal's pregnancy appears to increase the likelihood of it birthing a homosexual offspring.
Genetic basis
Researchers found that disabling the fucose mutarotase (FucM) gene in laboratory mice – which influences the levels of estrogen to which the brain is exposed – caused the female mice to behave as if they were male as they grew up. "The mutant female mouse underwent a slightly altered developmental programme in the brain to resemble the male brain in terms of sexual preference" said Professor Chankyu Park of the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology in Daejon, South Korea, who led the research. His most recent findings have been published in the BMC Genetics journal on July 7, 2010.[36][37] Another study found that by manipulating a gene in fruit flies (Drosophila), homosexual behavior appeared to have been induced. However, in addition to homosexual behavior, several abnormal behaviors were also exhibited apparently due to this mutation.
Neurobiological basis
In March 2011, research showed that serotonin is involved in the mechanism of sexual orientation of mice. A study conducted on fruit flies found that inhibiting the dopamine neurotransmitter inhibited lab-induced homosexual behavior.
- wiki
What all this tells us is that 1. from physiological basis, it all has to do with imbalance of sex hormones and develop of the size of gonads, 2. from genetic basis, genetic mutation can lead to this behavior and 3. from neurobiological basis, level of serotonin involved influence this behavior.
So whatever videos someone shows, the science above backs up the fact that there is nothing 'natural' about it. It is because of the results of the stated above research and/or the social conformity for dominance or allegiance for strengthening the pack, or just not enough comprehensive search exists to properly reach a conclusive answer. All of this is based on scientific research alone.
If you look at the human population, many people are not gay but they become that while in prison and once they leave prison they change their behavior back to normal. It's about adaptation to their environment and has nothing to do with being "born" that way or it being a "natural" thing in any way. Even those "born" homosexual, research above shows that abnormalities and mutations cause this abnormal in humans and not how God "made" them that way.
All this goes with addition to what others said about being human fitra to not go towards that perversion as well as human being created above those animals with power of intellect and reasoning to show there's nothing 'natural' about this. We do not act on instincts like animals, not even we have some hormonal imbalance or genetic defect. Even then We fight the inclination to go down that path because Allah has given us the reasoning to know this not the normal way and also given us the command to stay away from it. Anyone who wants to go that way do so out of their own perversion and nothing else. So don't be fooled by the videos, ,they are just the cover of a the book, inside the book (research) shows why that is done and the reasoning behind it. Anyone can show you the cover of a book and make up a story to explain that cover, but it isn't till we ourselves look deep that we find the real story.
We live in the age of technology where such much information is at our fingertips. It's important learn and understand all this stuff that pertains to Islam and Muslims so when you come across such people, you are in a position to discuss such topics with them and not be all dumbfounded like your friends. The ones who lack knowledge are often the ones that get taken for a ride. That is how the missionaries get the ignorant Muslims to convert.
Mashallah aaj,I'm not gonna lie I know my Muslim friends aren't that smart,they will get into fights with this ATHIEST,I actually asked them once why don't you talk back and protect your deen and he says he doesn't care,he just care that he's a Muslim and he knows Allah is real.Which is why I came here to ask and get advice from you guys,and really Mashallah thanks so much for helping me guys may Allah bless you all.
Atheists believe human beings are animals so obviously he'd compare us to them. Let him be an animal if he wants to.
That's true,I find it so silly though,if you just know how he treats my Muslim and Christian friends..he trolls everyone,he talks a lot about Christianity and Islam and how these 2 religions are a "joke"
That's true,I find it so silly though,if you just know how he treats my Muslim and Christian friends..he trolls everyone,he talks a lot about Christianity and Islam and how these 2 religions are a "joke"
This is why one must know his deen so he can challenge such an ignorant and arrogant person and show him that rather his lack of belief is a joke. It is a joke to believe that everything came from nothing like magic, "poof" there it is! Tell him it isn't Disney land.
He may or may not care. Either he is a class clown trying to get some attention or he maybe start to think seriously if intellectually challenged enough. Usually those who act out are often bored but give them something worth thinking about and they will run with it. Tell next time bring some research back up what he says not just a video of animals gone wild. For instance, tell him to go look up 'homosexuality among animals' on wiki and you will find research more contradicting the notion of it being 'natural' than supporting it. And if he wants to you can sit down with him and show it to him. And you could highlight the points we mentioned previously to enforce your suggestion. This will make him either jump topic and play it off or something to ponder about and go really look it up. If someone continuously challenges him intellectually and logically then it will make him start to think seriously about it and who knows, maybe change his beliefs.
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Sultan
Okay just to summarize this,
4-Allah didn't create homosexuality?
It's not that Allah didn't create this. Everything that happens in the universe happens by the will and permission of Allah. So more that Allah didn't make us to be homosexual by nature, rather it is a deviation from the norm of how Allah created us.
He may or may not care. Either he is a class clown trying to get some attention or he maybe start to think seriously if intellectually challenged enough. Usually those who act out are often bored but give them something worth thinking about and they will run with it. Tell next time bring some research back up what he says not just a video of animals gone wild. For instance, tell him to go look up 'homosexuality among animals' on wiki and you will find research more contradicting the notion of it being 'natural' than supporting it. And if he wants to you can sit down with him and show it to him. And you could highlight the points we mentioned previously to enforce your suggestion. This will make him either jump topic and play it off or something to ponder about and go really look it up. If someone continuously challenges him intellectually and logically then it will make him start to think seriously about it and who knows, maybe change his beliefs.
It's not that Allah didn't create this. Everything that happens in the universe happens by the will and permission of Allah. So more that Allah didn't make us to be homosexual by nature, rather it is a deviation from the norm of how Allah created us.
As I said,I will revise the previous answers and hit it with this.I see,it's just basically to test us right ?
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