However, this does not mean we should not act in justice. Just because they hate is, doesn't mean we have to hate them back. Just respond with justice. Right?
We follow Islam, completely. If they dislike that, their problem. However, our enmity towards them, or their enmity towards us, should not make us sway from Justice.
If we respond with hatred just because they hate us, will that really solve anything? I'd rather respond with Justice, as per. Quran etc.
Succumbing to this hate game will just hurt us more.
Allahu alam.
My brother, you are correct, but what does it mean to do justice to those who oppress and attack the deen of Allaah? What does Allah say about those who fight the Muslims and occupy their lands? It seems that we are confused what justice means. Does justice mean that we throw water on those who throw fire on us? Is that what it means to respond with justice?
"Then he became one of those who believed and recommended one another to perseverance and patience, and (also) recommended one another to pity and compassion. They are those on the Right Hand (i.e. the dwellers of Paradise)."Al-Qur'an 90:17-18
And acting according to His Messenger's saying:
Allah is only merciful with those who show mercy to others. - Sahih Al-Bukhari
And:
Be merciful to those on the earth, so the One above the heavens will be merciful to you. -Tabarani and Al-Hakim with a sahih (authentic) chain
And being guided by his saying:
He who does not show mercy to others, will not be shown mercy. - Sahih Al-Bukhari
And:
Mercy is only removed from the miserable. - Abu Dawud and At-Tirmidhi
Any one can slap a few verses and hadith here and there to make their point as if they are right. Are you going to use Allah's words to support those whom Allah and His Messenger hate? Do you really want to go there?
I think you should reflect more on this hadtih you posted:
Mercy is only removed from the miserable. - Abu Dawud and At-Tirmidhi
“Verily, He likes not the Thalimun (oppressors, polytheists, and wrongdoers).” (Al-Quraan 42:40)
My brother, you are correct, but what does it mean to do justice to those who oppress and attack the deen of Allaah? What does Allah say about those who fight the Muslims and occupy their lands? It seems that we are confused what justice means. Does justice mean that we throw water on those who throw fire on us? Is that what it means to respond with justice?
Wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
Is justice burning their children, because they burn our children? Rather, Justice, afaik, is to stop the oppressor. So if someone blew up our house, and killed our men and women, we go after the oppressor, and whoever aided him in that.
I am not knowledgable enough to give a full answer, but we should respond with justice, and afaik, killing and murdering non combatants, is not Justice. They kill our women, does that mean we should kill their's? No.
We go after the oppressor. How? Idk. But when we are attacked, we have our full right to retaliate on the oppressors. However, we should not cause havoc (i.e. kill their children, etc.)
I am not saying to be complete pacifists. Retaliate with justice, without transgressing.
No good law prohibits just retaliation.
I can not give a full answer, however, I know that what they are doing, is wrong. I can not answer in full.
too many variables.
Allahu alam.
Last edited by Serinity; 11-27-2016 at 06:55 PM.
Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
" Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "
Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.
I think you should reflect more on this hadtih you posted:
“Verily, He likes not the Thalimun (oppressors, polytheists, and wrongdoers).” (Al-Quraan 42:40)
that plays both ways dude... that's the part you're not seeing because of your linear reading of the ayah. Sheesh.
Helping your fellow man is duty. Those innocents caught in the crossfires of war are not guilty by association simply because they were born somewhere, ok?
Second, third and even fourth generation returnees had no choice where they were born. Some don't even care for the conflict. And we Muslims know better than to judge an entire people due to the actions of a political circus.
You should be the one who reflects on this verse I feel. Inaction is one of the worst evils, to do nothing when something can be done is to sit by and watch it happen like it's amusement. Call it Kevin Carter syndrome. Whatever, you, like... doesn't change the fact that inaction is evil.
so you are saying we are the thalimun for not running to save our enemies and our killers from a fire?
smh...
I'm saying, define who are the wrongdoers when you do not know them personally. You don't know what is in their hearts, Allah does.
The Ayah mentions Allah doesn't like the wrongdoers... Not how you should feel about them. In fact, there are hadeeth and ayah which I "cherry picked" to show you how humans should interact with each other.
Polytheists are wrongdoers, so go fight hindus if you're so fanatical lol contexts considered, I had no idea the Children of Israel were now also Polytheists.
You've never met the Children of Israel, in person, I gather.
Your argument hinges on a thread of weakly invested emotion, and so far I've yet to see you make a valid point.
But if this fire is keeping them and their energies busy for a while..
Alaikum Salam
Sister, this is what we try to tell you. This fire is not just something keeping their energy busy but it is something killing innocent people, animals and trees living there. Our concern is on these entities, not the criminals and the State of Israel. If there is even only one innocent over there, we should help again. This is the real Islamic attitude. This world is a test world as you already mentioned. Our test is to take the Islamic attitudes to action. On the day of Judgement Allah will ask us why we didnot help these people just like He will ask why we didnot help palestinians.
I'm saying, define who are the wrongdoers when you do not know them personally. You don't know what is in their hearts, Allah does.
The Ayah mentions Allah doesn't like the wrongdoers... Not how you should feel about them. In fact, there are hadeeth and ayah which I "cherry picked" to show you how humans should interact with each other.
Polytheists are wrongdoers, so go fight hindus if you're so fanatical lol contexts considered, I had no idea the Children of Israel were now also Polytheists.
You've never met the Children of Israel, in person, I gather.
Your argument hinges on a thread of weakly invested emotion, and so far I've yet to see you make a valid point.
Nothing sticks, like teflon
Scimi
The israeli are occupying palestine for the past 60 years, they have murdered raped and tortured thousands in that time. They are at war with Muslims, the are the open enemies of Islam and Muslims. I don't need emotions, those facts alone are enough for me. I have no sympathy for them, any harm to them helps the Muslims and therefore I will be pleased with any harm caused upon them and will pray Allah bring a 1000 fires like this one or any other harm on them. you are welcome to sing the tunes of sleeping with the enemy all you want, we know where you stand and where I stand. and Allah is the witness to all.
Activists in the Bedouin village of Umm Hiran in the Negev were among those who said their homes were open to welcome those in need of temporary shelter, perhaps surprising some familiar with its current situation. The village is scheduled to be demolished to make way for a new Jewish town following a lengthy, unsuccessful legal battle with the government.
Something to shed a little light on the whole "let the oppressors burn" conversation going on.
If the Israeli people are so innocent, why don't they give the stolen land back to the Palestinians who they stole it from? Why don't say anything to their government? They are sitting on occupied and stolen land.
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Alaikum Salam
Sister, this is what we try to tell you. This fire is not just something keeping their energy busy but it is something killing innocent people, animals and trees living there. Our concern is on these entities, not the criminals and the State of Israel. If there is even only one innocent over there, we should help again. This is the real Islamic attitude. This world is a test world as you already mentioned. Our test is to take the Islamic attitudes to action. On the day of Judgement Allah will ask us why we didnot help these people just like He will ask why we didnot help palestinians.
Brother, unfortunately there are innocents being killed all over the world, but our minds are so concerned about what is happening to any innocents and wildlife and trees in Israel that we cannot seem to see beyond that right now. We are a shame and humiliation to the people of Palestine and to the Muslim ummah.
you can't negotiate with the oppressors.....this fire is likely a punishment from Allah for the haughtiness of the Jews
A fair bit of it is believed to be arson. Not all of it of course, but some of these fires were initially seen as being suspicious and just yesterday some of it was ruled arson by investigators. 23 people have been detained on suspicion of arson and the investigation is ongoing.
there will, within a few decades, be no Israel left, and all of the jews will have either fled or been burned....
That's not going to happen. If arson does wind up becoming a large problem, the problem will be rectified. But first, let's see exactly what happened and who may have done it. If it was arson, what sort of person do you think would have done it? Nothing has been confirmed yet and I haven't seen any suggestions, nor do I offer any of my own, but if you have anything you'd like to add please go right ahead.
When Palestinians in Gaza were being attacked by Israel I donated my money to buy medicines to help Palestinians. I did that because is my duty to help my Muslim brothers. Now Israel is on fire, and I don't do anything to help Israelis. But I do not condemn Palestinians who decide to help their Israeli neighbors.
If you are not willing to help Israelis, it's okay. But you don't need to condemn Palestinians who try to help their Israeli neighbors.
And one thing that I should remind. Not every Jew, even in Israel, hate Muslims.
Zionist Jews arrogantly banned the Adhan (The Islamic call to prayer) and now, Subahanallah, their entire so called 'Israel' is in flames, such is the wrath of Allah ﷻ , the Zionists are screaming in fear and terror seeing their homes and streets burn.
" And fear the Fire, which has been prepared for the disbelievers. " (Qur’an 3:13)
The israeli are occupying palestine for the past 60 years, they have murdered raped and tortured thousands in that time. They are at war with Muslims, the are the open enemies of Islam and Muslims. I don't need emotions, those facts alone are enough for me.I have no sympathy for them,any harm to them helps the Muslims and therefore I will be pleased with any harm caused upon them and will pray Allah bring a 1000 fires like this one or any other harm on them.you are welcome to sing the tunes of sleeping with the enemy all you want, we know where you stand and where I stand. and Allah is the witness to all.
You're clearly emotional.
Facts? you wouldn't know a fact if it was presented to in the form of a census report.
You have a cold heart, clear as day to see here - you don't have to spell it out for us. We know. Devoid of any humanity.
Abdullah ibn Umar reported: He heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, raising his head from the last bowing in dawn prayer and saying:
You do not have any decision in the matter whether He will forgive them or punish them. Verily, they are oppressors. (3:128)
Source: Sahih Bukhari 4283, Grade: Sahih
After this incident, the Prophet would not curse people by name and he encouraged us not to indulge in curses.
The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would not abuse others, he would not use obscene words, and he would not curse others. If he wanted to admonish anyone of us, he used to say: What is wrong with him? His forehead be dusted!
On one occasion, the Prophet refused to curse the idolaters who were persecuting the Muslims at the time.
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, was told, “O Messenger of Allah, pray against the idolaters!” So the Prophet said:
So yeah, you carry on cursing the Israeli's with your foul heart - but do not dare to claim you follow the sunnah anymore.
----
Both, you and Pixie are not reflective of Islamic values. And that is clear for us all to see.
I advise speaking to your imam and taking your issues to him, then listening to his advice. I'm certain you will think twice before letting your anger do the talking again.
You have a cold heart, clear as day to see here - you don't have to spell it out for us. We know. Devoid of any humanity.
Devoid of any humanity huh? I'll hold you to that on Judgement day and your love for the enemies of Islam.
Yes, I have a very very cold heart for the enemies of Islam, the butchers of Muslims. may Allah destroy them all.
“The strongest handhold of eemaan is to love for Allaah’s sake and to hate for Allaah’s sake.” [Ahmad, 4/286, authentic]
The great scholar, Shaykh ‘Abdul-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (d.1420, may Allaah have Mercy on him) was asked about love and hatred for the sake of Allaah, and he replied:
Loving for Allaah is when you love (someone) for Allaah’s sake, the Blessed and Exalted, because you believe him to be a person of taqwaa (mindfulness of Allaah’s orders) and eemaan (upright beliefs, statements, and actions). Because of these things you love such a person for the sake of Allaah.
You also hate for the sake of Allaah when you see a disobedient disbeliever. You hate such a person for the sake of Allaah.
You also hate a disobedient person, even if he is a Muslim, based on the degree of his disobedience.
This is how a believer is – He allows his heart to react to both types of people, loving some of them for the sake of Allaah. He loves the people of eemaan and taqwaa for the sake of Allaah, while he hates the people of disbelief, evil, and disobedience for Allaah’s sake, allowing his heart to interact with both kinds.
Abdullah ibn Umar reported: He heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, raising his head from the last bowing in dawn prayer and saying:
اللَّهُمَّ الْعَنْ فُلَانًا وَفُلَانًا وَفُلَانًا
O Allah, curse so-and-so and so-and-so.
Thereafter Allah revealed the verse:لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الْأَمْرِ شَيْءٌ أَوْ يَتُوبَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَوْ يُعَذِّبَهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ ظَالِمُونَ
You do not have any decision in the matter whether He will forgive them or punish them. Verily, they are oppressors. (3:128)
Source: Sahih Bukhari 4283, Grade: Sahih
After this incident, the Prophet would not curse people by name and he encouraged us not to indulge in curses.
Anyone can cherry pick to make their point, like i said before, more you open your mouth , more you expose yourself. Try to educate yourself before you go on a self-righteous rampage
Cursing happens in two ways:
Cursing the kuffaar and sin in general terms, such as saying “May Allaah curse the Jews and Christians,” or “May Allaah curse the kaafirs, evildoers and wrongdoers,” or “May Allaah curse the wine-drinker and thief.” This kind of curse is permissible and there is nothing wrong with it.
Ibn Muflih said in al-Adaab al-Shar’iyyah, 1/203: “It is permissible to curse the kuffaar in general.”
The second is where the curse is applied to a specific person, whether he is a kaafir or an evildoer, such as saying, “May Allaah curse So and so,” mentioning him by name.
This may fall into one of two categories:
1 – Where there is a text which states that he is cursed, such as Iblees, or where there is a text which states that he died as a kaafir, such as Pharaoh, Abu Lahab and Abu Jahl. Cursing such persons is permitted.
2 – Cursing a particular kaafir or evildoer concerning whom there is no text stating that they are cursed – such as wine-drinkers, those who offer sacrifices to anything other than Allaah, the one who curses his parents, those who introduce innovations in religion, and so on.
“The scholars differed as to whether it is permissible to curse these people, and there are three points of view:
(i) That it is not permissible under any circumstances
(ii) That it is permissible in the case of a kaafir but not of a (Muslim) evildoer
(iii) That it is permissible in all cases.”
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said in al-Qawl al-Mufeed, 1/226.
The difference between cursing a specific person and cursing those who commit sin in general is that the former (cursing a specific person) is not allowed, and the latter (cursing the people who commit sin in general) is allowed. So if you see an innovator, you do not say, ‘May Allaah curse you,’ rather say, ‘May the curse of Allaah be upon those who introduce innovations,’ in general terms. The evidence for that is the fact that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed some people among the mushrikeen and followers of jaahiliyyah and said: “O Allaah, curse So and so, and So and so, and So and so,” he was told not to do that when Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning): “Not for you (O Muhammad, but for Allaah) is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the Zaalimoon (polytheists, disobedients and wrongdoers)” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:128]
Did you get all that or should i break it down and dumbify it for you kid?
So yeah, you carry on cursing the Israeli's with your foul heart - but do not dare to claim you follow the sunnah anymore.
Allah know's what is in my heart, so don't try to claim you do as well little boy.
And if you want to talk about foul things, let's talk about that foul mouth of yours that lacks the sunnah and islamic values of properly addressing others. Here's how Allah feelsl about people like you:
Those that are foul-mouthed :Allah does not like that the evil should be uttered in public except by him who has been wronged. And Allah is Ever All-Hearer, All-Knower. (4:148)
Inaction is one of the worst evils, to do nothing when something can be done is to sit by and watch it happen like it's amusement.
Inaction?
Brother Scimitar, I think we need to calm down to be honest and stop worrying so much about Israel. Israel already has plenty of help from the world - not only to put out their fires but also to start many fires in Muslim lands. Many countries have rushed to Israels aid and helping them. I don't understand why we even needed to say we have a Muslim duty to help Israel. Do we even realise the implications of obligating something? I am sure we wouldn't have made this statement or atleast not be worrying about things like the trees in Israel if we were aware of the critical plight and suffering of our own Muslim brothers and sisters in cities such as Aleppo - Who is helping Aleppo and the rest of the Muslim ummah? The believers have far more HAQ over us that we help them - but if we don't already feel the ghairah for the Muslim ummah, or are unaware of the situation of the Muslim ummah - then it is understandable why we would be consumed with the plight of the enemy and be worrying about them - to the extent that we will even accuse and argue with other Muslims over our concern and sympathy for them - and we will accuse them (the believers) of being worse terrorists and devoid of Islamic values and compassion and humanity - as if these matters only apply to the enemy. And while the world sends jets to put out the fires in Israel, we continue to debate over being compassionate to our enemies and our duty to help them, not realising that our own brothers and sisters continue to burn and starve in sieges while the only jets being sent to them are not of water but of bombs.
We expect the Muslim ummah to forgive every transgression and be merciful to the enemy and we say this is the best form of dawah, yet when we ourselves feel wronged in our daily life or even by a small comment by another member (let alone our land being stolen and children bombed which is incomparable) we resort to insulting them back. We deal more harshly with the Muslims than we do with the disbelievers, yet this is the opposite of how the prophet was.
If this is what our mentality has become - and we have become confused about our obligations and priorities - and we obligate it a duty upon the Muslims to help their enemy while our own brothers and sisters are more in need and deserving of our help - and we have one rule for how we should behave and another rule for how the ummah should behave - then it is no wonder we are in the state we find ourselves in today.
Allah is not going to ask us what we did to help Israel. He is going to ask us what we did to help Islam & the ummah of rasool Allaah
May Allah forgive us and bring back our ghairah. We all are in need of rectification and forgiveness. Aameen.
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