Soon the river "Euphrates" will disclose the treasure (the mountain) of gold

Heck no lol.

I study religion, history and science, comparatively to know truth.

Yajuj wa Majuj have been released a loooong time ago - looooooooooooong time ago, in my honest and humble opinion.

However, the status quo in the Muslim world is that they are still behind the barrier which makes me both, laugh and feel sad at the opinions of majority Muslims regarding such.

But - I was asking others, and that includes you Aaj, so - mind returning the courtesy?

Scimi

It might be oil

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

Heck no lol.

I study religion, history and science, comparatively to know truth.

Yajuj wa Majuj have been released a loooong time ago - looooooooooooong time ago, in my honest and humble opinion.

However, the status quo in the Muslim world is that they are still behind the barrier which makes me both, laugh and feel sad at the opinions of majority Muslims regarding such.

But - I was asking others, and that includes you Aaj, so - mind returning the courtesy?

Scimi

There is a danger in being 100% convinced of matters that haven't got authentic sources. For example, i am convinced let's say 80% that dajjal would be let lose within 50 years. However i am not 100% sure it will be let lose within 50 years. So what kind of road does logic give me to follow?

- Well learn all that is about dajjal.
- Learn to be independent of the modern conveniences like getting your water from within your house, electricity food from the local grocery store. Learning at least where to get it when you don't have it anymore.
- Buy necessary gear for survival. Essential books, gather as much knowledge about survival and maybe learn some essential profession.
- Get some gold and silver coins
- Train the body to survive with less water and less food. Train the mind to be motivated.
- Etc. etc. etc.

So if no dajjal comes within my life time and i have tried my utmost best to be prepared, then i have prepared for it. If he doesn't show up, i have done my utmost best...nothing happens.

So in case of you with Yajuj wa Majuj 100% being convinced they already have been let lose, there is the danger of not counting them in the things to be aware of. The logical path would be believing they will still be let lose. That way you keep being alert.

In the past i had a discussion with a guy who was convinced there is no such a thing as dajjal, because in the Qur'an it was not told about. My argument was simple. I said bro, if you say he will come..you will be prepared. So if he doesn't even show up you at least were prepared. While if he does exist and show up, but you said there is no such a thing as dajjal..you will fall for his traps as you do not believe in him.

This simple logical approach i see many of us Muslims lack to use.

I don't entertain pascals wager bro and those who do, are fools who are also likely to use a "straw man" as their argument it's silly.

What I do is investigate until I am reasonably convinced one way or another, and then I become a critic to my research and theory and attempt to poke holes into the weaker parts to see if there is room for rebuttal. And then I leave it alone and come back to it after a few days with a fresh head on my shoulders, so to speak, and look at it all again - after which, if I haven't had another brainwave - I would usually attempt to carry on with the research, and gradually as the information, facts and proofs build up - so does the conviction. If in the process of critiquing the work, I manage to debunk my own ideas - then it's game over.

And I always am ready to entertain the idea that I could be wrong, because Allah knows best.

However, I am currently, and for years now, convinced that yajuj and majuj are out of their barrier.

Should you wish to know more, you can learn in sha Allah.

Scimi

Let me just say that whether they are here or are going to be released all at once makes no difference in where we are as of today, so I hope that this thread continue to be a healthy discussion and we are all open to hearing perspectives so that we may be able to think about things. It doesn't have to become a debate. I like learning all or nothing type of thinking doesn't allow much room to learn.


That being said, I do think this hadeeth does leave room for us to entertain the possibility of Yajooj wa Majooj being released sooner or slowly.

Narrated by Zainab bint Jahsh, “That the Prophet once came to her in a state of fear and said, “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe unto the Arabs from a danger that has come near. An opening has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this,” making a circle with his thumb and index finger. Zainab bint Jahsh said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Shall we be destroyed even though there are pious persons among us?” He said, “Yes, when the evil person will increase.” Volume 4, Book 55, Number 565.

So if we take a hadeeth we are all familiar with (or should be), such as what you posted:

Al-Nawaas ibn Sam’aan (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), wile describing the signs of the Day of judgement said: “… and Allah will send Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj, swiftly swarming from every mound. They will pass the lake of Tiberias [in Palestine] and will drink everything that is in it. Then the last of them will pass by and will say, ‘There used to be water here once.’ The Prophet of Allah, Eesaa (Jesus), and his companions, will be besieged until a bull’s head will be more precious to one of them than a hundred dinars are to any of you today.

We find that this tells us that the release of yajooj wa majooj is a SIGNS of the end times and further describes the state of Eesa(pbuh) and his companions will be in by the time yajooj wa majooj are about to be killed.


Remember that the prophet also said ""The time of my advent and the Hour are like these two fingers." Didn't he? If we know this, why do we keep waiting for future events? End times started upon his arrival pretty much, so things have happened, are happening and will continue to happen.

Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will pray to Allah, and Allah will send a kind of worm (like that found in the noses of camels and sheep) on their (Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj) necks, and they will fall down dead, all at once. Then Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will come down out of the place where they were besieged, and they will find hardly a hand span of land that is not filled with the stench (of Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj), so Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will pray to Allah, and He will send birds like the necks of camels to carry them away and throw them wherever Allah wills.” (Reported by Muslim, 18/68).

This tells us how they will be destroyed and nobody is arguing that (as far as I know). This doesn't tell us that they will be killed as soon as they come out, nor does this hadeeth tell us how long they will be destroying our resources before they are killed.

These are only a few reasons why there is a possibility they have been released or are still being released. Just because one person is 100% convinced doesn't make it a fact, but we do have to learn to think outside of our comfort zones.

We also have to think about translation because just a couple of words being different can change the meaning, arabic is a dense language and nuances matter. I don't know arabic and I wish I did so I could read everything without relying on a translation.

Resources are not typically destroyed from one day to the other, although what we perceive to be a long time is not actually a long time and we have been told about this already. I suppose that's why people keep thinking that nothing will happen in their lifetime and that end times start all of a sudden.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but alot of Arab countries are in chaos and many have suffered a great amount of damage and it is all over resources. Does this not make anyone wonder? How much longer before they are all gone?

We've had plenty of warning and plenty of signs to look out for. The death of Yajooj wa Majooj are a big sign, no doubt.

Assalaam alaikum sister Umm Layth,

Your way of thinking is good mashaAllah, better than those who do not think and just parrot what others have said as if it is a gospel truth. The examination of the hadeeth regarding the end times is "work n progress" ever since the Sahabi RA became concerned at the mention of the Dajjal - another end times sign and one of the major ten - yet, the Sahabi were concerned in their own lifetime. They were also concerned about the Yajuj and Majuj, in their own lifetime. In fact, when Umar RA came to be khaliph of the Muslims, he sent an expedition out to locate the barrier because he too was concerned - what his expedition came back with was hardly convincing. Derbent.

Khaliph Watiq Billah sent an expedition out with Sallam the interpreter heading the mission due to his expertise in around 30 languages - he returned a few years later shaggy and with half his men dead claiming to have located the barrier - describing it as "a narrow defile within which a door of iron with bells hung over it" - while he was there he took his knife out of his boot and chipped away at the loose metal and bought back a drachms weight of it as proof.

"Nor were they able to dig through it" - Qur'an.

Hmmmm... to move on.

The Chinese traveller, Hiun Tsiang went through it on his way to India - both of them located this iron door in the region of mountains known as the Pamirs. Sallam journeying East coming from the West, and HUien Tsiang journeying West coming from the East.

In the modern day, there is this expedition which was a complete waste of time - watch the video first and after that I will share with you why this video is no proof of a barrier still existing.



The reason why this video is a joke is because I studied geology to a basic level and know that taking a metal detector to a mountain is stupid. All mountains have ferrous ores running through them (ferrous ore is iron) which makes using a metal detector on a mountain, very stupid indeed.

Yet people who are ignorant of such knowledge, will often spend their good money on dumb ideas just like that Egyptian brother did in this video above.

There's a lot of info which I have, in sha Allah, to share - just ask the questions and slowly the skeletal framework of this story will start to flesh out.

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth

I like learning all or nothing type of thinking doesn't allow much room to learn.

In our personal opinion, the all or nothing thinking doesn't help much. But if we are talking about matters of the dean, then we have to think and base our opinions in the context of what Islam has revealed and stated.

That being said, I do think this hadeeth does leave room for us to entertain the possibility of Yajooj wa Majooj being released sooner or slowly.

While that maybe so, we cannot take one hadith or verse and run with it. In order to properly understand a given matter, we have to see all collaborating ahadith, Quranic verse, and tafsir of them as well as the views of the as-salaf on it. Only then can we get the full picture of things.

For instance, I agree with you that this hadith would leave room:

Narrated by Zainab bint Jahsh, “That the Prophet once came to her in a state of fear and said, “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe unto the Arabs from a danger that has come near. An opening has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this,” making a circle with his thumb and index finger. Zainab bint Jahsh said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Shall we be destroyed even though there are pious persons among us?” He said, “Yes, when the evil person will increase.” Volume 4, Book 55, Number 565.

Yet

Another Hadith is narrated by Imam Ahmed in his Musnad that the Prophet (S.A.W.S) said: “Verily, Gog and Magog dig through the dam every day, till they could see the sun rays (through it), and their leader would say: ‘Go back and you will finish it tomorrow.’ On the next day, they find it as strong as before. Till when their appointed term comes and Allah desires to send them against mankind, they dig it till they could see the sun rays (through it) and their leader says: ‘Go back and you will finish it tomorrow, if Allah wills!’ On the next day, they find it as they had left the day before and they dig through it and come against mankind.

So you see that they do dig through it every single day till they are able to see sun rays n the other side, but Allah seals it back up for them to keep repeating until the appointed time.

Remember that the prophet also said ""The time of my advent and the Hour are like these two fingers." Didn't he? If we know this, why do we keep waiting for future events? End times started upon his arrival pretty much, so things have happened, are happening and will continue to happen.

Yes, they started, have happened, and are happening. The prophecies and signs are divided into major and minor signs. While it is believed that all minor signs have come true. The major signs are still to come. All these signs are about the end of times, which is different then coming of Esa a.s. He too is one of the signs. Sheikh anwar al awlwaki stated that based on the signs given, we are living in the times that al mahdi will come either in our life time or our kids' life time. That's how close we are.

This tells us how they will be destroyed and nobody is arguing that (as far as I know). This doesn't tell us that they will be killed as soon as they come out, nor does this hadeeth tell us how long they will be destroying our resources before they are killed.

What the corroborated ahadith tell us is that they will come like a tsunami, wiping everything in their path. Esa a.s. will take his followers and take refugee in the mountains while they cause chaos on earth. They will kill all living beings (animals, humans, etc) and then they will aim their arrows at the sky and fire. Those arrows will return blood soaked and then they will say they have killed gods as well. Like i said, there is a lot of information out there that one has to read to fully comprehend and get the full picture.

These are only a few reasons why there is a possibility they have been released or are still being released. Just because one person is 100% convinced doesn't make it a fact, but we do have to learn to think outside of our comfort zones.

So you see there is no possibility of them already being released. It's not a matter of one person being convinced or not, it is what is being supposed by Islamic sources and what is not. Thinking outside our comfort zone is fine, thinking outside of the context of islamic knowledge (ahadith, verses, tafsirs) is not.

We also have to think about translation because just a couple of words being different can change the meaning, arabic is a dense language and nuances matter. I don't know arabic and I wish I did so I could read everything without relying on a translation.

We do have to think about the translation, which is why someone can't do their own research and come to a conclusion on their own if they don't know the language, nor have they listened to the scholars who have studied the topic in its original text and language.

Lastly, I just like to remind everyone that we are all laymen. We should remember that as we debate,discuss and talk about islamic topics. There is us, there are students of knowledge who actually sit under a teacher to learn, there are imams, daees, and then scholars and then scholars of scholars aka senior scholars that the scholars go to. It's important to keep that in mind as some forget where we stand in the chain of knowledge and understanding of the deen.

Here you go sister: https://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-kn...l-qarnayn.html

Scimi