Who does one support in Syria?

^ We might not talk here about the same matters but only think we do.

format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz

this whole war is wrong, very very wrong as in this day and age war causes massive harm, much greater than any benifit; it is better to live under opression than start a civil war and suffer a million times more

but since it has started, lets support the 'good guys'!, anti-assad coalition!

Well no..the good guys are the ones who are anti-assad, anti-Iran, Anti-Turkey, anti-Gulf states, anti-ISIS, anti-us, anti-Russia, anti-nationalism (anti-YPG, anti-FSA and more groups like them), anti-extremism (well i do not have to spell it out..you know it yourself)

This is what I am trying to say but nobody is listening and everybody wants to join either one of those corrupt groups that are fueling the fire and in the end not really fighting oppression but rather killing people and dying for the sake of interests of those groups.

So anybody that agrees with that statement can start commenting. If you say you disagree, better give some very good objective argument to refute this

format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz

if we try to fight all the 'baddies' together we'll get nowhere bro!

best to keep it simple!

Oke, that is a logical and rational view. To MY humble opinion is to have a federation or split the country up. This will piss off Turkey, Gulf states and NATO, BUT people in Syria will get peace. Assad will have his own part other people have nothing to do with him anymore. So who do you have to side with DURING PEACE TALKS?

YPG, Assad, Iran and Russia. Because they are for the solution as far as I know to split the country or make it a federation.

So the choice is very simple, you want ALL of Syria or you just want peace? You want keep shedding blood? Or do you want a middle solution? The BEST solution is federation or break up Syria in parts. As Assad will not leave anytime soon, Turkey, Gulf states and NATO don't care what Syrian people want. They are after their own political interests. Their political interests is to get whole Syria to be their puppet(Gulfstates & Turkey) and get Russia out of Syria(NATO).

So what will it be? Bloodshed till nobody is left? Or break it up..and have peace?

I think that..... That the Ummah is too split. maybe, if we as Muslims, despite our differences in sects, would unite together against the disbelievers (NATO, Russia, and USA) and keep our conflicts indoors.

Allahu alam.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

I think that..... That the Ummah is too split. maybe, if we as Muslims, despite our differences in sects, would unite together against the disbelievers (NATO, Russia, and USA) and keep our conflicts indoors.

Allahu alam.

You said NATO, that would also include Turkey , as they have joined since 1952. It is not the issue of sects, that the Ummah is mostly not united, it is because of people abusing religion to gain power and stay in power. Everybody currently holding power at a country in the Middle East is the one that prevents people from uniting, as they are the puppets to CIA..or in other words Mossad behind the curtains. From Turkey to Egypt to Saudi to Pakistan.

BTW, USA also is already included in NATO.

What i also forget, Russia of today are not USSR as before 1991. The Russians of today are turning back to Orthodox Christianity and i do not believe they are in the category of disbelievers.

Greetings and peace be with you aaj;

By your logic, we should have stayed home and let hitler do what he wanted to do and finish his work.

I see many similarities in what you have been saying, and what Hermon Goering said, when he was a part of the ruling class that led Germany into war.........

Hermon Goering
“Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

George Bush and Tony Blair both used the Herman Goering Nazi formula to guide their nations to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. A very easy and dangerous ideal that provokes ordinary people to pick up a gun.

Talking is cheap, especially for pacifistic sitting comfortably at home behind their monitors and never bother to see what's going on in the world.

I prefer to think of myself as a peacemaker, and to be a peace maker means you have to be in places of conflict. I have had a knife held against my throat, I don't know how many times I have been punched in my life. A couple of months ago, a lad told me he was carrying a knife, and I encouraged him to give it to me. Last night, I stood between a few drunks fighting at 3 am, sadly this often happens outside the kebab shop run by Muslims.

On rare occasions, peacemakers can overcome violence, Mahatma Ghandi and possibly Nelson Mandela, but there is a price to pay, thousands still die.

Over three hundred thousand have died in Syria, including fifty thousand children. More people with guns can only mean more unnecessary deaths. Where is God in all the death and destruction? How can you be sure that you would end up killing the people; that Allah wants you to kill?

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

Here have been talking about pacifism and some people call them cowards and sheeps whose only wait their butcher coming. It tells me that some people don´t understand the pacifists at all. Let me tell you about Turkish pacifists I supported some years back.

They were a group of young men, both Turks and Kurds in Turkey whose were worried about news they read from Syria and wanted to do something to help. They bought food and medicine and some donkeys and smuggled them to Syrian people. They made many danger trips over the border area and every times risked their lives. Many of them were shot to dead during their trips but they didn´t give up but continued. Later I lost connection to them but maybe they still are somewhere with their donkeys bringing help and hope to those whose are suffering.

Cowards? Sheeps? Yep, I really respect kind of sheeps and wish to be as brave like they were.

format_quote Originally Posted by Magomed

You are right here.

IS and the Syrian army are particularly dangerous. Both slaughter en-masse and have no regard for human life at all. Foolish people think that by joining IS that they are fighting to resist the Syrian regime - however this is a fallacy, since IS are more concerned with killing those they consider apostates - which includes other jihadi groups as well as Kurds and pretty much anyone who doesn't pledge support to them. Whilst the Syrian regime were raping Muslimas in dungeons, IS were more concerned with cutting hands and killing "apostates" in areas under its control. They have shown extreme harshness to those under their rule - its sad that people who have suffered so much from oppression under the Assad dynasty were subject to such cruelty by IS...

I am not sure how to understand your comment. It is almost translated as if you are saying group X is more cruel than group Y and thus we have to ally our self with group Y. I do not go by cruelty because cruelty isn't a logical and rational approach to be used in searching for the best solution.

That being said if we still do want to talk about cruelty..than NATO is the MOST CRUEL in this day and age. They are even more cruel than ISIS if you ask me and we all know what monsters ISIS is. Within NATO armies they have all kind of rituals that those soldiers invent to rape each other...male or female doesn't matter. They rape civilians they come to protect. ..take a look for example with US soldiers based in Japan...rape and kill civilians. From prisons to interrogation cells. So who need enemies if you have friends like these right?..

I am not saying go hate those people. Hating anybody is not good. Hate the deed not the individual.

Again my question to us all. What do we want? Further bloodshed or peace? If you want further bloodshed just don't do nothing and choose how it is right now. If you want peace I have seen seriously only 1 solution and that is federation or breakup of Syria. This is the best and the most realistic possible way for peace. The countries that do NOT want Syria to split have other motives than stop killing of bloodshed. Just think logically and rationally and you will even agree with me that indeed the countries that do not want Syria break up or in federation having other motives. These being Gulf-states, NATO and Turkey.

I have heard of breaking up Syria is in the benefit of Isreal to further divide Muslims. Have you ever wondered that war it self creates further division between people? People have always been in tribes and tribes have united under a same goal. This right now is even more beneficial as people will lose this poison called nationalism. Nationalism is not tribalism. As in case of a tribe it is the same people while nationalism is a garbage bin full of different stuff no real blood relation or religion called garbage as a unity. This is the same with nationalism.

So when people get rid of this nationalism they can once again unite under the common goal like before being reigion. The hypocrites among the people that work under the enemy would have less power and easily get rid off. The impact that hypocrites obtain power is less as less people will be influenced by them.

So anyways the best and most realistic solution is join Assad, Iran, Russia and Kurds DURING PEACE TALKS NOT IN BATTLE!!!. As these groups to my knowledge are open for a federation or split up the country.

It's far easier to answer "who does one not support in Syria?"

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

So anyways the best and most realistic solution is join Assad, Iran, Russia and Kurds.

this is an ignorant statement to make.

Syria is where the malhama begins - and there are no winning sides when that happens.

Only the refugees and the innocently killed are the real winners - they lost this world, but gained the next.

I would advise to read up on the ahadeeth which tell of the wars of the end time and how no orthodox sunni Muslim authority will be partisan to such wars until the Mahdi is known - yet the Muslims will be caught by the fitan (trials) of these wars before the advent of Mahdi and whosoever joins these wars - is a loser.

Please go check the ahadeeth to see whether what I tell you is my opinion - or the Prophet Muhammad pbuh advice to the future Muslims - that's you and I.

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H

Greetings and peace be with you aaj;



I see many similarities in what you have been saying, and what Hermon Goering said, when he was a part of the ruling class that led Germany into war.........

Hermon Goering
“Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

George Bush and Tony Blair both used the Herman Goering Nazi formula to guide their nations to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. A very easy and dangerous ideal that provokes ordinary people to pick up a gun.



I prefer to think of myself as a peacemaker, and to be a peace maker means you have to be in places of conflict. I have had a knife held against my throat, I don't know how many times I have been punched in my life. A couple of months ago, a lad told me he was carrying a knife, and I encouraged him to give it to me. Last night, I stood between a few drunks fighting at 3 am, sadly this often happens outside the kebab shop run by Muslims.

On rare occasions, peacemakers can overcome violence, Mahatma Ghandi and possibly Nelson Mandela, but there is a price to pay, thousands still die.

Over three hundred thousand have died in Syria, including fifty thousand children. More people with guns can only mean more unnecessary deaths. Where is God in all the death and destruction? How can you be sure that you would end up killing the people; that Allah wants you to kill?

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

I was this close - this close to leaving this forum due to the level of debate taking a massive downward corkscrew of a turn into degenerative discourse, but...

...and this is a BIG BUT...

Your post has given me hope that there are still old guard hanging around who can lend a wise service to the otherwise, flippant narratives which remain so confused, they become dangerous to read.

God bless you brother Eric!

Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

Brother Syria has witnessed war also in the past when the Ottoman Empire fell/when the French were trying to take over. I am sure that during that time some people might have been thinking this is the beginning of the malhama. However that is not the right approach. You remember of a Hadith that says if you see destruction of Earth or something like that and you have a sprout in your hand..still plant that sprout. There is much wisdom in it. So it could be you are right and this is the beginning of all but still we need to find solutions and not just saying..this is the end..nevermind. YOLO as some atheist and agnostics would say. Try our best and the rest is up to Allah (swt).

Planting sprouts? Is that what you are doing when you claim the best course of action is to

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

join Assad, Iran, Russia and Kurds.

You contradict yourself so much, it's getting boring picking it apart mate.

Please, for the sake of your own self worth - don't reveal your hypocrisy so easily.

Scimi