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  1. #1
    Full Member Array TDWT's Avatar
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    Who does one support in Syria? (OP)


    I have been wondering, who does one support in Syria? I know not Assad since his regime is whack but who? I figured it was the free syrian army or something?

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    Eye Of The Tornado Simple_Person's Avatar
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    Re: Who does one support in Syria?


    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Yes but this is not uniqe to Turkish people. All nations on the surface of earth evolve as they migrate and mix with the local people. There were no Kurds say 2000 years ago either. However, this does not make them nonexistent. Still there is an American nation. No American would feel himself British ,Irish ,German or African etc. I guess. So, there is indeed a Turkish people.
    I agree with you in the case of Kurds, with time it automatically mixes and becomes certain type of people. This is called you could say destiny or the plan of Allah or whatever. As this is WITHOUT human interference that by intention was to make it such as.

    In case of the Turks, Americans and such, by design is done with a certain intention. Not by destiny or plan of Allah, it was rather done with a intention behind it. With the Berbers for example in North Africa this has been achieved. They mostly have forgotten their identity. They now call themselves Moroccans or Algerians..etc. With the Kurds this has been tried in 4 different man-made countries, YET in all 4 different countries the Kurds still say "Ez Kurdim" (I am a Kurd). I myself am not saying i am special, but it more looks like as if Allah is intending to do something with the Kurds. As since WW1 it has been tried over and over by 4 types of brainwashing to make them all forget that they are Kurds, yet in all different countries they have not been able to succeed. What this plan is of Allah or even if there is a plan for the Kurds by Allah, only He knows. But i find it indeed very strange that none has been able to assimilate them completely in their kind of people.

    So going back to the Turks, no they are not a people. It is some people (secret agenda) trying to brand somebody as such, but just because i say that i am the strongest in the world, doesn't make me the strongest in the world. As to say such a thing, must be backed by factual evidence, just as Turks. They say they are Turks, but just saying you are a Turk, doesn't make you one. Some don't have to say, they are indeed Turks and if factual evidence is brought they still can be branded as such, the rest is all brainwashed thinking as if they are Turks. Even MORE funny is the people born in other countries than Turkey. Many Turks say i am a Turk. I ask them why? They say because my parents are Turks in the sense that their parents have been born in Turkey and not this western country. I then say well it is contradictory to say you are a Turk, as you have not been born there .. o_O!!?? A lot of silence. You see the dishonesty and the nationalism, but still the BRAINWASHING that goes on with the Turks is unbelievable. Mustafa Kemal (crypto-Jew) really made a very good plan i must say to brainwash people in to believing something even almost 80 years after his death. So although he has been the enemy of Islam to divide the Muslim, i must say a lot of respect how they have achieved this brainwashing.

    Also, i believe you still have to give me OBJECTIVE evidence that Gulen was behind the coup. It seems like you have run off without letting me know. As the "evidence" you gave was very poor and not really objective. So i am still waiting, don't forget i have forgotten about it. When i bite on something, i don't easily let it go till i have been proven wrong.
    Last edited by Simple_Person; 1 Day Ago at 04:56 PM.
    Who does one support in Syria?

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

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  4. #102
    IB Senior Member anatolian's Avatar
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    Re: Who does one support in Syria?


    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    I agree with you in the case of Kurds, with time it automatically mixes and becomes certain type of people. This is called you could say destiny or the plan of Allah or whatever. As this is WITHOUT human interference that by intention was to make it such as.
    Everything is human interference but yet everything the plan of Allah. This is what I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    In case of the Turks, Americans and such, by design is done with a certain intention. Not by destiny or plan of Allah, it was rather done with a intention behind it. With the Berbers for example in North Africa this has been achieved. They mostly have forgotten their identity. They now call themselves Moroccans or Algerians..etc. With the Kurds this has been tried in 4 different man-made countries, YET in all 4 different countries the Kurds still say "Ez Kurdim" (I am a Kurd). I myself am not saying i am special, but it more looks like as if Allah is intending to do something with the Kurds. As since WW1 it has been tried over and over by 4 types of brainwashing to make them all forget that they are Kurds, yet in all different countries they have not been able to succeed. What this plan is of Allah or even if there is a plan for the Kurds by Allah, only He knows. But i find it indeed very strange that none has been able to assimilate them completely in their kind of people.
    You see people can adopt a certain type of identity. For example only the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula were called Arab before Islam. Syrians, Iraqis Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians and the rest of the north Africa adopted the Arabic identity after the spread of Islam. You are a Kurd as long as you feel yourself one. If you feel yourself Chinese, you are one. You don't have to have the same racial code.

    However, I agree with you that Kurds have been tried to assimilate in the countries they live because of the past nationalist goverments. I am not comfortable with this as well. This is against human rights and ofcourse Islam. The reason of this is secular nationalism. If they really had Islamic awareness they would have known that all nations and languages are the signs of Allah and deserve to survive. Also you can still have the unity within nation while allowing the diversity. West is doing it better. There are ethnic minorities in several western countries but yet they keep their both minor and major idendities at the same time. If their governments had the same attitude, Kurds would love to have their Turkish or Arabic or Persian idendities as well along with the Kurdish idendity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    So going back to the Turks, no they are not a people. It is some people (secret agenda) trying to brand somebody as such, but just because i say that i am the strongest in the world, doesn't make me the strongest in the world. As to say such a thing, must be backed by factual evidence, just as Turks. They say they are Turks, but just saying you are a Turk, doesn't make you one. Some don't have to say, they are indeed Turks and if factual evidence is brought they still can be branded as such, the rest is all brainwashed thinking as if they are Turks. Even MORE funny is the people born in other countries than Turkey. Many Turks say i am a Turk. I ask them why? They say because my parents are Turks in the sense that their parents have been born in Turkey and not this western country. I then say well it is contradictory to say you are a Turk, as you have not been born there .. o_O!!?? A lot of silence. You see the dishonesty and the nationalism, but still the BRAINWASHING that goes on with the Turks is unbelievable. Mustafa Kemal (crypto-Jew) really made a very good plan i must say to brainwash people in to believing something even almost 80 years after his death. So although he has been the enemy of Islam to divide the Muslim, i must say a lot of respect how they have achieved this brainwashing.
    It is a long a story. I would love to give you a lecture about it but the short of long yes Turkish people of Turkey are %100 Turkish in the sense I tried to explain in my above paragraphs. And you better don't relate everything you dislike with Turkish people to Mustafa Kemal. Turkish people of Turkey have long been adopted the Turkish identity before Him. Study a bit more the Turkish history and we can disscuss it better



    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    Also, i believe you still have to give me OBJECTIVE evidence that Gulen was behind the coup. It seems like you have run off without letting me know. As the "evidence" you gave was very poor and not really objective. So i am still waiting, don't forget i have forgotten about it. When i bite on something, i don't easily let it go till i have been proven wrong.

    I don't remember that I have anyhow given you anything regarding the coup attempt. But I assume you are refering a past post of mine I made somewhere. Yes it is true that all the ranking soldiers involved in the coup attempt were gulenist. This organization had long been entered into the state by either legal or illegal ways. Not only in the army but everywhere. It is a history of at least 30 years. Ofcourse they don't have an official certificate which shows that they are gulenist. But the evidences are many. Just search through.
    Who does one support in Syria?

    You harvest what you sow.

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    Eye Of The Tornado Simple_Person's Avatar
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    Re: Who does one support in Syria?


    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Everything is human interference but yet everything the plan of Allah. This is what I believe.
    Everything is indeed the plan of Allah, however in the past there were no plans in such as we know to divide Muslims. So again referring to the Kurds as an example. With different people they have succeeded to assimilate them, however by Allah's will they have not been able to assimilate the Kurdish identity. So one could say, MAYBE Allah is having His plan with the Kurds. But again, Allah knows best about this, however although i am a Kurd, i find this very noticeable compared to many other people, yet the Kurds as a people have been able to withstand the oppression all this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    You see people can adopt a certain type of identity. For example only the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula were called Arab before Islam. Syrians, Iraqis Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians and the rest of the north Africa adopted the Arabic identity after the spread of Islam. You are a Kurd as long as you feel yourself one. If you feel yourself Chinese, you are one. You don't have to have the same racial code.
    This is contradictory to this aya.

    "O mankind, indeed We have created you from (1) male and female and made you (2) peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:13

    (1) Allah in this aya already defines some of the things that cannot be changed as He has made us in to that. For example in to male and female. So even talking about your self in the sense of asexual reproduction, doesn't make you one. So in other words a individual cannot fertilize him/herself without other gender.

    (2) To go further Allah talks about peoples and tribes. In other sense one could say that this has been defined by Allah, not by us individually. By time the other many generations after us indeed one could say will become this "peoples and tribes", however not by human interference. So in this case, people are born in other countries with Turkish parents and they say they are Turks and such. However one would ask them self based on what does this individual claim he is a Turk? Which you look at the proof given and you see NATIONALISM. Nationalism is a human creation, not something of what Allah has said it should be this or that.

    You get me?

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    However, I agree with you that Kurds have been tried to assimilate in the countries they live because of the past nationalist goverments. I am not comfortable with this as well. This is against human rights and ofcourse Islam. (1) The reason of this is secular nationalism. If they really had Islamic awareness they would have known that (2) all nations and languages are the signs of Allah and deserve to survive. Also you can still have the unity within nation while allowing the diversity. (3) West is doing it better. There are ethnic minorities in several western countries but yet they keep their both minor and major idendities at the same time. (4) If their governments had the same attitude, Kurds would love to have their Turkish or Arabic or Persian idendities as well along with the Kurdish idendity.
    (1) Also with this you are being contradictory, as it looks like you support Erdogan. Erdogan by your standards is the one that pursuits slowly but surely "Islamic standards" as you defend him. However by objective standards he is following secular standards, as the Kurds are still not what they by Islamic standards should have become. So the question is, do you follow secular standards or do you follow Islamic standards? You say with one thing you say "Go Erdogan" on another thing you say "No Erdogan"(as he is pursuing secular and nationalistic ideology.

    (2) these current nations, i do not even have to tell you that they have been created for the SOUL purpose to divide the Muslims. So please do not put them in the category of "Pro-Islamic way". These "nations" create people that do not exist (Arab in sham saying he is Lebanese, Syrian or Jordanian or Palestinian..you know what i am trying to say.

    (3) West is NOT doing it better. Their foundation is based on nationalism and nobody is objecting to it even their own ideology does not object to it. However in the Middle East Islam prohibits nationalism, yet everybody is cheering for nationalism. If you are pro REAL Islamic Caliphate, that is something else. However i DOUBT that you say i HOPE that Allah destroys all the countries in the Middle East and sets up a REAL Islamic Caliphate. Till now Turks are unable to speak that out in the public. Nationalism is deep in the heart that prevents them saying this. I however as a Kurd with pride i say that not one of those borders remains and ALL the flags should be burned and a REAL Islamic Caliphate should be constructed. That way many Muslims living in the west will finally go away from here as many will want to go back where they came from.

    (4) Again, no dude. As Muslim it is even prohibited to love that "second"(third) identity. The ONLY second identity as a Kurd i have or well one could say first identity. 1-Muslim 2-Kurd. No more identities. As these identities have been given to me by Allah(swt). I was already a Muslim before being born, so that ALWAYS comes on number 1. When i die, the identity of me being a Kurd CEASES to exist. On the Day of Judgement only thing that counts is do you believe in 1 Creator or not? You really think you are able to use "Turkish"-card on the Day of Judgement? As if you get a free ticket to Jannah? =_=!. So i LOVE it to be a Kurd i really do. As i know how it is to be oppressed and better be of the oppressed than to be of the oppressors. As in this case MANY Arabs, Turks and Persians have been blinded by Allah because of their nationalism. They seriously cannot see and understand things. Doesn't matter if you talk to them day in and day out, they simply cannot see beyond nationalism. As pride prevents them to acknowledge what has been going on and what they have been believing since childhood was all wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    It is a long a story. I would love to give you a lecture about it but the short of long yes Turkish people of Turkey are %100 Turkish in the sense I tried to explain in my above paragraphs. And you better don't relate everything you dislike with Turkish people to Mustafa Kemal. Turkish people of Turkey have long been adopted the Turkish identity before Him. Study a bit more the Turkish history and we can disscuss it better
    Turkish people that really are the descendants of the REAL Turkic people. NOT the fake immigrants from neighboring lands that came to Turkey and got a passport (as i also tried to explain in my above paragraphs). Btw, this is a big test for you dude. This discussion is not about winning, this discussion is about truth. It is not easy to throw away ones pride and admit being wrong. But give me all you've got, i have done my home work about these things, not to win, but to know what is haq. That is why i have cleaned nationalism out of my heart as it will not give me a free ticket to Jannah so to say. I want all the countries to fall in the Middle East and all the flags burned even the Kurdish flag, as that will not give me free ticket to Jannah. Would you say the same ...???

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    I don't remember that I have anyhow given you anything regarding the coup attempt. But I assume you are refering a past post of mine I made somewhere. Yes it is true that all the ranking soldiers involved in the coup attempt were gulenist. This organization had long been entered into the state by either legal or illegal ways. Not only in the army but everywhere. It is a history of at least 30 years. Ofcourse they don't have an official certificate which shows that they are gulenist. Just search through.
    Saying "many evidences" doesn't make it a fact you know. I have tried and tried to search, but i have found none. So all what i was left with is using logic, rationality and reason. Which contradict what has been happening there. It rather looked like a fake coup to me. Don't get me wrong, Gulen is the same as Erdogan. Both preach Islam, but follow nationalism.
    Last edited by Simple_Person; 1 Day Ago at 07:23 PM.
    Who does one support in Syria?

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  6. #104
    Abz Iz Back!!! Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Who does one support in Syria?


    Re: the unduly disrespectful and uneducated reply to brother @aaj 's post about our beloved and sincere teacher (radhiAllahu 'anhu) who spent his life in Allah's cause, who refused to sell out for bribes from Washington and suffered much for the sake of Allah, and to whom many owe prayers due to the fact that they stopped living a life of heedlessness and came back to the deen again and again.
    Amma ba'd:

    Obama Killed a 16-Year-Old American in Yemen. Trump Just Killed His 8-Year-Old Sister.

    Two weeks after the killing of Awlaki, a separate CIA drone strike in Yemen killed his 16-year-old American-born son, Abdulrahman, along with the boy’s 17-year-old cousin and several other innocent Yemenis. The U.S. eventually claimed that the boy was not their target but merely “collateral damage.” Abdulrahman’s grief-stricken grandfather, Nasser al-Awlaki, urged the Washington Post “to visit a Facebook memorial page for Abdulrahman,” which explained: “Look at his pictures, his friends, and his hobbies. His Facebook page shows a typical kid.”


    https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/...ar-old-sister/

    On 29 January 2017, Nawar al-Awlaki, Nasser's 8-year-old granddaughter, was the third member of his family to be killed by the U.S. The girl was among several civilians killed in the Yakla raid, the first covert operation ordered by President Donald Trump.[6][7] Nasser said she was shot in the neck and died two hours later.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_al-Awlaki

    Nora al awlaki:



    Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXokZtoiN-c

    Quote Originally Posted by Magomed View Post
    I wouldnt consider him to be either authentic or reliable. Much of what he said was highly devient. He called for the murder of innocent people who never caused any harm to Muslims. His errant and unfounded views are taken by certain parties to justified atrocities in civilian areas, including against women and children. Where did he derive his knowledge of the deen from? Which Islamic institutes to he study at? He was a good lecturer and public speaker but did not have a particularly scholarly background.
    I have received the following question from one of the readers of my blog:

    (The Question says) I am not sure how much you have noticed, but in the West, their is a campaign to undermine
    your personal credentials as an ‘Alim. The all-too-common tactic of attacking the ‘messenger’ rather than the
    message itself is being employed in these campaigns.
    We want to be able to refute any false claims against you and support all of your works, wholeheartedly. Can you please provide us information regarding the Shuyukh that you have learned under in the past, and who you may be currently learning under? As well as, the source of your ‘ijaza, etc. This will be very important in refuting any slanderous attacks against your credibility. (end of Question)



    I have received this question in various forms and the frequency of it increased lately. Here is my response: Alhamdulillah I have had the chance to experience the various methods of gaining Islamic knowledge through studying directly under shuyukh in their general circles or privately. I have experienced the regular academic method of university study, studying by correspondence, and studying directly from books.


    Studying under shuyukh in their general circles:

    I have attended the circles of the scholars of Makkah and Madina for a combined period of a few months and for a short while attended the circle of Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen.

    Studying under shuyukh privately:

    In addition to an ijaza in Quran recitation according to the recitation of Hafs I have read and completed Sahih al Bukhari with Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal and he has given me ijazah to narrate Sahih al Bukhari from him through three high isnaads, one of them being the highest existing isnaad in the world. The other two he has received from his shuyukh in Makkah.

    I have also read and completed Sahih Muslim and al Muwata by Imam Malik with Shaykh AbdulRahman and he has given me ijazah on both books.

    I have studied al Minhaaj by Imaam Nawawi on Shafi fiqh with Shaykh AbdulRahman al Ahdal and Shaykh Hamud al Ahdal and received ijaza from both of them.

    The above mentioned shuyukh have also given me ijazah to narrate through their isnaad the six books of Hadith, al Adhkaar by Imaam Nawawi, al Shifa by Qadhi Iyaad, and some other books in Shafi fiqh.

    I have studied, traveled and lived with Shaykh Hassan al Ahdal and it was through him that I got to study with other scholars from this blessed family of scholars who are descendants of al Hussain bin Ali may Allah be pleased with them. They are based in al Marawa’ah in Tihama which is in the Western part of Yemen on the coast of the Red Sea and this is the land of the Sahabi Abu Musa al Ash’ari. He has given me a general ijaza in the six books of hadith, Buloogh al Maraam by Ibn Hajjar al Asqalani, Umdat al Ahkaam by al Maqdisi, al Minhaaj by al Nawawi, al Ghaya wal Taqreeb by Abu Shuja, and al Waraqaat by al Juwaini.

    I have spent a short time with Shaykh Salman al Odah.

    I have benefited considerably from the scholars I met in the US during the 90’s, a time in which there was a great influx of scholars in America.

    And last but not least, I have benefited and continue to benefit from the Shaykh whom I trust his deen and know him to be a scholar who does not fear in the sake of Allah and is willing to stand up for the truth, Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh. He is a friend whose relationship with me extends over the years. Until this day, I consult with him on the various important aspects of Sharia that I am presented with and I have continued to benefit from his knowledge and wisdom over the years. I have accompanied him and traveled with him and consider him to be one of the best scholars that I have come to know.

    Regular academic university study:

    Regular academic university study:

    In 2002 I was given permission from the administration of the University of Eman in Yemen to attend any class at any level and I took advantage of this and attended classes in Tafsir and Fiqh for a period of a few months. I have also benefited from the teachings of Shaykh Abdul Majid al Zindani the Rector of the University.

    Studying Sharia by Correspondence:

    I studied for two years through correspondence with the Islamic university in France. I lost interest and discontinued my studies with them because I reached the conclusion that it was not a proper method of disseminating Islamic knowledge. This was in the mid 90’s so things must have changed now in the field of correspondence study due to advances in technology.

    Studying from Books:

    After receiving the basics from the scholars and the keys of knowledge, learning from books is a lifelong practice of the seeker of knowledge.

    My Ijazah:

    In addition to the ijaza’s I have mentioned above I have a general ijaza in Quran, Sciences of Quran, Hadith, Sciences of Hadith, Tafsir , Fiqh, Usool Fiqh and Arabic from:

    Shaykh Hassan Maqbooli al Ahdal

    Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh

    Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal

    Shaykh Hamud Shumailah al Ahdal
    Last edited by Abz2000; 1 Day Ago at 09:04 PM.
    Who does one support in Syria?

    Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor
    M.A



    The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

    Frederick Douglas

 

 
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