Who does one support in Syria?

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

I agree with you in the case of Kurds, with time it automatically mixes and becomes certain type of people. This is called you could say destiny or the plan of Allah or whatever. As this is WITHOUT human interference that by intention was to make it such as.

Everything is human interference but yet everything the plan of Allah. This is what I believe.

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

In case of the Turks, Americans and such, by design is done with a certain intention. Not by destiny or plan of Allah, it was rather done with a intention behind it. With the Berbers for example in North Africa this has been achieved. They mostly have forgotten their identity. They now call themselves Moroccans or Algerians..etc. With the Kurds this has been tried in 4 different man-made countries, YET in all 4 different countries the Kurds still say "Ez Kurdim" (I am a Kurd). I myself am not saying i am special, but it more looks like as if Allah is intending to do something with the Kurds. As since WW1 it has been tried over and over by 4 types of brainwashing to make them all forget that they are Kurds, yet in all different countries they have not been able to succeed. What this plan is of Allah or even if there is a plan for the Kurds by Allah, only He knows. But i find it indeed very strange that none has been able to assimilate them completely in their kind of people.

You see people can adopt a certain type of identity. For example only the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula were called Arab before Islam. Syrians, Iraqis Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians and the rest of the north Africa adopted the Arabic identity after the spread of Islam. You are a Kurd as long as you feel yourself one. If you feel yourself Chinese, you are one. You don't have to have the same racial code.

However, I agree with you that Kurds have been tried to assimilate in the countries they live because of the past nationalist goverments. I am not comfortable with this as well. This is against human rights and ofcourse Islam. The reason of this is secular nationalism. If they really had Islamic awareness they would have known that all nations and languages are the signs of Allah and deserve to survive. Also you can still have the unity within nation while allowing the diversity. West is doing it better. There are ethnic minorities in several western countries but yet they keep their both minor and major idendities at the same time. If their governments had the same attitude, Kurds would love to have their Turkish or Arabic or Persian idendities as well along with the Kurdish idendity.

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

So going back to the Turks, no they are not a people. It is some people (secret agenda) trying to brand somebody as such, but just because i say that i am the strongest in the world, doesn't make me the strongest in the world. As to say such a thing, must be backed by factual evidence, just as Turks. They say they are Turks, but just saying you are a Turk, doesn't make you one. Some don't have to say, they are indeed Turks and if factual evidence is brought they still can be branded as such, the rest is all brainwashed thinking as if they are Turks. Even MORE funny is the people born in other countries than Turkey. Many Turks say i am a Turk. I ask them why? They say because my parents are Turks in the sense that their parents have been born in Turkey and not this western country. I then say well it is contradictory to say you are a Turk, as you have not been born there .. o_O!!?? A lot of silence. You see the dishonesty and the nationalism, but still the BRAINWASHING that goes on with the Turks is unbelievable. Mustafa Kemal (crypto-Jew) really made a very good plan i must say to brainwash people in to believing something even almost 80 years after his death. So although he has been the enemy of Islam to divide the Muslim, i must say a lot of respect how they have achieved this brainwashing.

It is a long a story. I would love to give you a lecture about it but the short of long yes Turkish people of Turkey are %100 Turkish in the sense I tried to explain in my above paragraphs. And you better don't relate everything you dislike with Turkish people to Mustafa Kemal. Turkish people of Turkey have long been adopted the Turkish identity before Him. Study a bit more the Turkish history and we can disscuss it better

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

Also, i believe you still have to give me OBJECTIVE evidence that Gulen was behind the coup. It seems like you have run off without letting me know. As the "evidence" you gave was very poor and not really objective. So i am still waiting, don't forget i have forgotten about it. When i bite on something, i don't easily let it go till i have been proven wrong.

I don't remember that I have anyhow given you anything regarding the coup attempt. But I assume you are refering a past post of mine I made somewhere. Yes it is true that all the ranking soldiers involved in the coup attempt were gulenist. This organization had long been entered into the state by either legal or illegal ways. Not only in the army but everywhere. It is a history of at least 30 years. Ofcourse they don't have an official certificate which shows that they are gulenist. But the evidences are many. Just search through.

format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian

Everything is human interference but yet everything the plan of Allah. This is what I believe.

Everything is indeed the plan of Allah, however in the past there were no plans in such as we know to divide Muslims. So again referring to the Kurds as an example. With different people they have succeeded to assimilate them, however by Allah's will they have not been able to assimilate the Kurdish identity. So one could say, MAYBE Allah is having His plan with the Kurds. But again, Allah knows best about this, however although i am a Kurd, i find this very noticeable compared to many other people, yet the Kurds as a people have been able to withstand the oppression all this time.

format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian

You see people can adopt a certain type of identity. For example only the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula were called Arab before Islam. Syrians, Iraqis Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians and the rest of the north Africa adopted the Arabic identity after the spread of Islam. You are a Kurd as long as you feel yourself one. If you feel yourself Chinese, you are one. You don't have to have the same racial code.

This is contradictory to this aya.

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from (1) male and female and made you (2) peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:13

(1) Allah in this aya already defines some of the things that cannot be changed as He has made us in to that. For example in to male and female. So even talking about your self in the sense of asexual reproduction, doesn't make you one. So in other words a individual cannot fertilize him/herself without other gender.

(2) To go further Allah talks about peoples and tribes. In other sense one could say that this has been defined by Allah, not by us individually. By time the other many generations after us indeed one could say will become this "peoples and tribes", however not by human interference. So in this case, people are born in other countries with Turkish parents and they say they are Turks and such. However one would ask them self based on what does this individual claim he is a Turk? Which you look at the proof given and you see NATIONALISM. Nationalism is a human creation, not something of what Allah has said it should be this or that.

You get me?

format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian

However, I agree with you that Kurds have been tried to assimilate in the countries they live because of the past nationalist goverments. I am not comfortable with this as well. This is against human rights and ofcourse Islam. (1) The reason of this is secular nationalism. If they really had Islamic awareness they would have known that (2) all nations and languages are the signs of Allah and deserve to survive. Also you can still have the unity within nation while allowing the diversity. (3) West is doing it better. There are ethnic minorities in several western countries but yet they keep their both minor and major idendities at the same time. (4) If their governments had the same attitude, Kurds would love to have their Turkish or Arabic or Persian idendities as well along with the Kurdish idendity.

(1) Also with this you are being contradictory, as it looks like you support Erdogan. Erdogan by your standards is the one that pursuits slowly but surely "Islamic standards" as you defend him. However by objective standards he is following secular standards, as the Kurds are still not what they by Islamic standards should have become. So the question is, do you follow secular standards or do you follow Islamic standards? You say with one thing you say "Go Erdogan" on another thing you say "No Erdogan"(as he is pursuing secular and nationalistic ideology.

(2) these current nations, i do not even have to tell you that they have been created for the SOUL purpose to divide the Muslims. So please do not put them in the category of "Pro-Islamic way". These "nations" create people that do not exist (Arab in sham saying he is Lebanese, Syrian or Jordanian or Palestinian..you know what i am trying to say.

(3) West is NOT doing it better. Their foundation is based on nationalism and nobody is objecting to it even their own ideology does not object to it. However in the Middle East Islam prohibits nationalism, yet everybody is cheering for nationalism. If you are pro REAL Islamic Caliphate, that is something else. However i DOUBT that you say i HOPE that Allah destroys all the countries in the Middle East and sets up a REAL Islamic Caliphate. Till now Turks are unable to speak that out in the public. Nationalism is deep in the heart that prevents them saying this. I however as a Kurd with pride i say that not one of those borders remains and ALL the flags should be burned and a REAL Islamic Caliphate should be constructed. That way many Muslims living in the west will finally go away from here as many will want to go back where they came from.

(4) Again, no dude. As Muslim it is even prohibited to love that "second"(third) identity. The ONLY second identity as a Kurd i have or well one could say first identity. 1-Muslim 2-Kurd. No more identities. As these identities have been given to me by Allah(swt). I was already a Muslim before being born, so that ALWAYS comes on number 1. When i die, the identity of me being a Kurd CEASES to exist. On the Day of Judgement only thing that counts is do you believe in 1 Creator or not? You really think you are able to use "Turkish"-card on the Day of Judgement? As if you get a free ticket to Jannah? =_=!. So i LOVE it to be a Kurd i really do. As i know how it is to be oppressed and better be of the oppressed than to be of the oppressors. As in this case MANY Arabs, Turks and Persians have been blinded by Allah because of their nationalism. They seriously cannot see and understand things. Doesn't matter if you talk to them day in and day out, they simply cannot see beyond nationalism. As pride prevents them to acknowledge what has been going on and what they have been believing since childhood was all wrong.

format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian

It is a long a story. I would love to give you a lecture about it but the short of long yes Turkish people of Turkey are %100 Turkish in the sense I tried to explain in my above paragraphs. And you better don't relate everything you dislike with Turkish people to Mustafa Kemal. Turkish people of Turkey have long been adopted the Turkish identity before Him. Study a bit more the Turkish history and we can disscuss it better

Turkish people that really are the descendants of the REAL Turkic people. NOT the fake immigrants from neighboring lands that came to Turkey and got a passport (as i also tried to explain in my above paragraphs). Btw, this is a big test for you dude. This discussion is not about winning, this discussion is about truth. It is not easy to throw away ones pride and admit being wrong. But give me all you've got, i have done my home work about these things, not to win, but to know what is haq. That is why i have cleaned nationalism out of my heart as it will not give me a free ticket to Jannah so to say. I want all the countries to fall in the Middle East and all the flags burned even the Kurdish flag, as that will not give me free ticket to Jannah. Would you say the same ...???

format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian

I don't remember that I have anyhow given you anything regarding the coup attempt. But I assume you are refering a past post of mine I made somewhere. Yes it is true that all the ranking soldiers involved in the coup attempt were gulenist. This organization had long been entered into the state by either legal or illegal ways. Not only in the army but everywhere. It is a history of at least 30 years. Ofcourse they don't have an official certificate which shows that they are gulenist. Just search through.

Saying "many evidences" doesn't make it a fact you know. I have tried and tried to search, but i have found none. So all what i was left with is using logic, rationality and reason. Which contradict what has been happening there. It rather looked like a fake coup to me. Don't get me wrong, Gulen is the same as Erdogan. Both preach Islam, but follow nationalism.

Re: the unduly disrespectful and uneducated reply to brother @aaj 's post about our beloved and sincere teacher (radhiAllahu 'anhu) who spent his life in Allah's cause, who refused to sell out for bribes from Washington and suffered much for the sake of Allah, and to whom many owe prayers due to the fact that they stopped living a life of heedlessness and came back to the deen again and again.
Amma ba'd:

Obama Killed a 16-Year-Old American in Yemen. Trump Just Killed His 8-Year-Old Sister.

Two weeks after the killing of Awlaki, a separate CIA drone strike in Yemen killed his 16-year-old American-born son, Abdulrahman, along with the boy’s 17-year-old cousin and several other innocent Yemenis. The U.S. eventually claimed that the boy was not their target but merely “collateral damage.” Abdulrahman’s grief-stricken grandfather, Nasser al-Awlaki, urged the Washington Post “to visit a Facebook memorial page for Abdulrahman,” which explained: “Look at his pictures, his friends, and his hobbies. His Facebook page shows a typical kid.”


https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/...ar-old-sister/

On 29 January 2017, Nawar al-Awlaki, Nasser's 8-year-old granddaughter, was the third member of his family to be killed by the U.S. The girl was among several civilians killed in the Yakla raid, the first covert operation ordered by President Donald Trump.[6][7] Nasser said she was shot in the neck and died two hours later.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_al-Awlaki

Nora al awlaki:



Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXokZtoiN-c

format_quote Originally Posted by Magomed

I wouldnt consider him to be either authentic or reliable. Much of what he said was highly devient. He called for the murder of innocent people who never caused any harm to Muslims. His errant and unfounded views are taken by certain parties to justified atrocities in civilian areas, including against women and children. Where did he derive his knowledge of the deen from? Which Islamic institutes to he study at? He was a good lecturer and public speaker but did not have a particularly scholarly background.

I have received the following question from one of the readers of my blog:

(The Question says) I am not sure how much you have noticed, but in the West, their is a campaign to undermine
your personal credentials as an ‘Alim. The all-too-common tactic of attacking the ‘messenger’ rather than the
message itself is being employed in these campaigns.
We want to be able to refute any false claims against you and support all of your works, wholeheartedly. Can you please provide us information regarding the Shuyukh that you have learned under in the past, and who you may be currently learning under? As well as, the source of your ‘ijaza, etc. This will be very important in refuting any slanderous attacks against your credibility. (end of Question)



I have received this question in various forms and the frequency of it increased lately. Here is my response: Alhamdulillah I have had the chance to experience the various methods of gaining Islamic knowledge through studying directly under shuyukh in their general circles or privately. I have experienced the regular academic method of university study, studying by correspondence, and studying directly from books.


Studying under shuyukh in their general circles:

I have attended the circles of the scholars of Makkah and Madina for a combined period of a few months and for a short while attended the circle of Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen.

Studying under shuyukh privately:

In addition to an ijaza in Quran recitation according to the recitation of Hafs I have read and completed Sahih al Bukhari with Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal and he has given me ijazah to narrate Sahih al Bukhari from him through three high isnaads, one of them being the highest existing isnaad in the world. The other two he has received from his shuyukh in Makkah.

I have also read and completed Sahih Muslim and al Muwata by Imam Malik with Shaykh AbdulRahman and he has given me ijazah on both books.

I have studied al Minhaaj by Imaam Nawawi on Shafi fiqh with Shaykh AbdulRahman al Ahdal and Shaykh Hamud al Ahdal and received ijaza from both of them.

The above mentioned shuyukh have also given me ijazah to narrate through their isnaad the six books of Hadith, al Adhkaar by Imaam Nawawi, al Shifa by Qadhi Iyaad, and some other books in Shafi fiqh.

I have studied, traveled and lived with Shaykh Hassan al Ahdal and it was through him that I got to study with other scholars from this blessed family of scholars who are descendants of al Hussain bin Ali may Allah be pleased with them. They are based in al Marawa’ah in Tihama which is in the Western part of Yemen on the coast of the Red Sea and this is the land of the Sahabi Abu Musa al Ash’ari. He has given me a general ijaza in the six books of hadith, Buloogh al Maraam by Ibn Hajjar al Asqalani, Umdat al Ahkaam by al Maqdisi, al Minhaaj by al Nawawi, al Ghaya wal Taqreeb by Abu Shuja, and al Waraqaat by al Juwaini.

I have spent a short time with Shaykh Salman al Odah.

I have benefited considerably from the scholars I met in the US during the 90’s, a time in which there was a great influx of scholars in America.

And last but not least, I have benefited and continue to benefit from the Shaykh whom I trust his deen and know him to be a scholar who does not fear in the sake of Allah and is willing to stand up for the truth, Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh. He is a friend whose relationship with me extends over the years. Until this day, I consult with him on the various important aspects of Sharia that I am presented with and I have continued to benefit from his knowledge and wisdom over the years. I have accompanied him and traveled with him and consider him to be one of the best scholars that I have come to know.

Regular academic university study:

Regular academic university study:

In 2002 I was given permission from the administration of the University of Eman in Yemen to attend any class at any level and I took advantage of this and attended classes in Tafsir and Fiqh for a period of a few months. I have also benefited from the teachings of Shaykh Abdul Majid al Zindani the Rector of the University.

Studying Sharia by Correspondence:

I studied for two years through correspondence with the Islamic university in France. I lost interest and discontinued my studies with them because I reached the conclusion that it was not a proper method of disseminating Islamic knowledge. This was in the mid 90’s so things must have changed now in the field of correspondence study due to advances in technology.

Studying from Books:

After receiving the basics from the scholars and the keys of knowledge, learning from books is a lifelong practice of the seeker of knowledge.

My Ijazah:

In addition to the ijaza’s I have mentioned above I have a general ijaza in Quran, Sciences of Quran, Hadith, Sciences of Hadith, Tafsir , Fiqh, Usool Fiqh and Arabic from:

Shaykh Hassan Maqbooli al Ahdal

Shaykh Hussein bin Mahfoodh

Shaykh AbdulRahman Shumailah al Ahdal

Shaykh Hamud Shumailah al Ahdal

format_quote Originally Posted by Magomed

So he attended some circles, attended some classes here and there and read some books and dropped out of Sharia studies. This really doesn't say a huge amount for someone considered a major sheikh.

Anyway, this is all irrelivent if his teachings are devient. He made permissible the act of deliberatly slaughtering civilians, and AQAP's magazine referred to his teachings to advocate attacks against sports stadiums etc. His daleel was laughable, he took the principle of collatoral damage being permissible when unavoidable (in warfare this is sometimes sadly the case) and extended it to permit killing women and children in purely civilian areas "as long as men are the target" - thinking we can find loopholes in clear principles. The prophet SAW and Allah forbade these types of murderous acts - as is mentioned many times.

He appears to have had more knowledge than you or I combined, and more sincerity and dedication than any scholar I know.
We would do better to put things on a correct balance and weigh with just scales when choosing who to condemn amongst humakind if we choose to condemn; since the bloodshed and other crimes of some people from amongst humankind far outweigh any crimes or bloodshed by others and this makes those who have carried out the most blooshed accountable before anyone else, since condemning those who do far less only increases the false propaganda and unjustified bloodshed and it is forbidden to retaliate to a greater extent than the injury received when checking aggression.

Let us all also take some time to study Islam before thinking of embarking on a despicable scheme of slander with malintent, btw the name of the seal of the Prophets is MUHAMMAD (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and his family and the true and sincere from amongst his claimed companions and followers) NOT Mahomet or Magomed. Mahomet was used by the ignorant orientalists who were usually quite distant from and quite unfamiliar with the settings and the language of the Quran.

Maybe study the tafseer behind the verse "they ask you about the prohibited months - fighting therein" and "the prohibited month for the prohibited month", and the verse regarding Allah checking one set of people by means of another in order to check and restrain persecution and chaos.

Maybe read some ahadith regarding the catapault/mangonel, the fact that the Prophet responded with a question rather than a ruling - thereby leaving people responsible for their actions. Also note that millions have lost their lives in unjust, haraam, and immoral bombing campaigns by those who have carried out such atrocities in the past decade - for which they are accountable in the absence of sincere repentance - with many being shot at point blank range leaving no doubt that such actions are targeted, murderous and callous.

Also be assured with certainty that the dead and killed of the Muslims are in paradise whereas the dead and killed of the kuffar are in hell. May Allah unite 'Abdur-Rahman and those who were unjustly killed like him with Hasssan and Hussain in the highest positions in Paradise.
Peace to those who humbly, sincerely, and truthfully seek to follow the guidance of Allah.

format_quote Originally Posted by Khanali12

The goverment is who i support.

deen il government, 'abd al prime minister/president or 'abd Allah?
Better to be on deen il haqq and 'abd Allah.
Sorry my english sir.

format_quote Originally Posted by Khanali12

The president

President means Khalifah, and it is essential and obligatory that the khalifah establishes the laws of justice and truth on earth, and Allah who is the creator and sustainer of the heavens and the earth is the most high, most wise, and most just, therefore the president must be ib submission and 'obedience to Allah who has sent messengers with guidance and revealed the Quran to Muhammad which is the most updated law till the rolling up and end of the heavens and the earth.


Abu Bakr’s (ra) Inaugural Speech
Author: MR Filed under: History, Islam, Politics Date: Jan 19,2009 | 05:25 PM

After the ummah gave their allegiance to Abu Bakr (ra), he said this:

O People! I have been put in authority over you and I am not the best of you. So if I do the right thing then help me and if I do wrong then put me straight.
Truthfulness is a sacred trust and lying is a betrayal.
The weak amongst you is strong in my sight. I will surely try to remove his pain and suffering.
And the strong amongst you is weak to me I will – Allah willing – realise the right from him fully.
When obscene things spread among any nation, calamities generally continued to descend upon them.
As long as I obey Allah and His messenger, you should obey me, and if I do not obey Allah and His messenger, then obedience to me is not incumbent upon you. (Now prepare for prayer).

http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2009/...ugural-speech/

I've said what is necessary on the topic in order to defend him from false accusations and belittlement, and so will refrain from empty bickering as that's where it appears to be headed and prefer to spend my time on more useful pursuits. Just a quick epilogue:
He was also an engineer by profession and his father was a fulbright scholar, the whole family appears to have inherited high IQ and succeeded with high marks in whichever subject they touched upon which also indicates good and sound ancestry. He didn't need to spend time giving you naseehah in terms of financial needs, but then again he wouldn't likely have reached the status he did before Allah had he continued as an engineer.
Attempting to compare his retaliatory actions within the limits of equal Qisas in order to restrain wanton bloodshed of innocents - with those of corrupt criminals such as bush, blair, obama, cameron, sarkozy, hollande, may, and trump is quite lame actually since one is not shining a real mirror - but expounding the darkness of their own hearts and intentions.


Peace be to those who seek to follow the guidance of Allah with sincerity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakla_raid

Edited

The saying: "two wrongs don't make a right" is confusing and should be rendered "two haram actions don't become a halal action", however qisas within the boundaries of Islam make retaliation up to the extent of a crime of an individual or group halal in order to check haram bloodshed and fitnah.

Wa lakum fi al qisaasi hayaatun ta uli albaab.

Retaliation is also to be practised with due care, If it is apparent that an individual or group may repent and desist from commiting crimes anyway, blood money may be taken or forgiveness granted at the discretion of the wronged or their legitimate awliyaa. If however the individual or group concerned is likely to continue to commit injustice if left unchecked - then retaliation up to the amount of unlawful damage done becomes pragmatic if the people concerned are able, and if the people who lawfully retaliated qithin the bounds of lawful qisaas are set upon again, Allah the most high will help them, and when Allah the most just who cannot be questioned for His deeds becomes directly involved the consequences for the unjust aggressors can be dire since Allah is not bound by any constraints.

Chapter Name:Al-Anfal Verse No:19

إِن تَسْتَفْتِحُواْ فَقَدْ جَاءكُمُ الْفَتْحُ وَإِن تَنتَهُواْ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَإِن تَعُودُواْ نَعُدْ وَلَن تُغْنِيَ عَنكُمْ فِئَتُكُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَوْ كَثُرَتْ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ {19
008:019 Khan
:
(O disbelievers) if you ask for a judgement, now has the judgement come unto you and if you cease (to do wrong), it will be better for you, and if you return (to the attack), so shall We return, and your forces will be of no avail to you, however numerous it be, and verily, Allah is with the believers.

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

Everything is indeed the plan of Allah, however in the past there were no plans in such as we know to divide Muslims. So again referring to the Kurds as an example. With different people they have succeeded to assimilate them, however by Allah's will they have not been able to assimilate the Kurdish identity. So one could say, MAYBE Allah is having His plan with the Kurds. But again, Allah knows best about this, however although i am a Kurd, i find this very noticeable compared to many other people, yet the Kurds as a people have been able to withstand the oppression all this time.



This is contradictory to this aya.

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from (1) male and female and made you (2) peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Qur'an 49:13

(1) Allah in this aya already defines some of the things that cannot be changed as He has made us in to that. For example in to male and female. So even talking about your self in the sense of asexual reproduction, doesn't make you one. So in other words a individual cannot fertilize him/herself without other gender.

(2) To go further Allah talks about peoples and tribes. In other sense one could say that this has been defined by Allah, not by us individually. By time the other many generations after us indeed one could say will become this "peoples and tribes", however not by human interference. So in this case, people are born in other countries with Turkish parents and they say they are Turks and such. However one would ask them self based on what does this individual claim he is a Turk? Which you look at the proof given and you see NATIONALISM. Nationalism is a human creation, not something of what Allah has said it should be this or that.

You get me?



(1) Also with this you are being contradictory, as it looks like you support Erdogan. Erdogan by your standards is the one that pursuits slowly but surely "Islamic standards" as you defend him. However by objective standards he is following secular standards, as the Kurds are still not what they by Islamic standards should have become. So the question is, do you follow secular standards or do you follow Islamic standards? You say with one thing you say "Go Erdogan" on another thing you say "No Erdogan"(as he is pursuing secular and nationalistic ideology.

(2) these current nations, i do not even have to tell you that they have been created for the SOUL purpose to divide the Muslims. So please do not put them in the category of "Pro-Islamic way". These "nations" create people that do not exist (Arab in sham saying he is Lebanese, Syrian or Jordanian or Palestinian..you know what i am trying to say.

(3) West is NOT doing it better. Their foundation is based on nationalism and nobody is objecting to it even their own ideology does not object to it. However in the Middle East Islam prohibits nationalism, yet everybody is cheering for nationalism. If you are pro REAL Islamic Caliphate, that is something else. However i DOUBT that you say i HOPE that Allah destroys all the countries in the Middle East and sets up a REAL Islamic Caliphate. Till now Turks are unable to speak that out in the public. Nationalism is deep in the heart that prevents them saying this. I however as a Kurd with pride i say that not one of those borders remains and ALL the flags should be burned and a REAL Islamic Caliphate should be constructed. That way many Muslims living in the west will finally go away from here as many will want to go back where they came from.

(4) Again, no dude. As Muslim it is even prohibited to love that "second"(third) identity. The ONLY second identity as a Kurd i have or well one could say first identity. 1-Muslim 2-Kurd. No more identities. As these identities have been given to me by Allah(swt). I was already a Muslim before being born, so that ALWAYS comes on number 1. When i die, the identity of me being a Kurd CEASES to exist. On the Day of Judgement only thing that counts is do you believe in 1 Creator or not? You really think you are able to use "Turkish"-card on the Day of Judgement? As if you get a free ticket to Jannah? =_=!. So i LOVE it to be a Kurd i really do. As i know how it is to be oppressed and better be of the oppressed than to be of the oppressors. As in this case MANY Arabs, Turks and Persians have been blinded by Allah because of their nationalism. They seriously cannot see and understand things. Doesn't matter if you talk to them day in and day out, they simply cannot see beyond nationalism. As pride prevents them to acknowledge what has been going on and what they have been believing since childhood was all wrong.



Turkish people that really are the descendants of the REAL Turkic people. NOT the fake immigrants from neighboring lands that came to Turkey and got a passport (as i also tried to explain in my above paragraphs). Btw, this is a big test for you dude. This discussion is not about winning, this discussion is about truth. It is not easy to throw away ones pride and admit being wrong. But give me all you've got, i have done my home work about these things, not to win, but to know what is haq. That is why i have cleaned nationalism out of my heart as it will not give me a free ticket to Jannah so to say. I want all the countries to fall in the Middle East and all the flags burned even the Kurdish flag, as that will not give me free ticket to Jannah. Would you say the same ...???

Saying "many evidences" doesn't make it a fact you know. I have tried and tried to search, but i have found none. So all what i was left with is using logic, rationality and reason. Which contradict what has been happening there. It rather looked like a fake coup to me. Don't get me wrong, Gulen is the same as Erdogan. Both preach Islam, but follow nationalism.

I don't claim that being a Turk, Kurd or something else gives us a free ticket to jannah. Jews fell in this mistake and they lost. I too think that nations were created by Allah for a purpose. If there is a Kurdish nation it is because it was supposed to be. Same for other nations. I too refer to the ayah you mentioned about the different nations/tribes. I too believe just as we have two genders as men and women as a sign of the creation of Allah, our different nations are the signs of Allah too as it is mentioned in the Quran. Everyt naiton has a purpose but Islam must be our unifying source. Turks ruled the more than half of the Islamic world once uponna time and Kurds helped them. If it was Kurds who did it, Turks should have done the same thing.

We must accept and undersatnd our differences but we must serve the ıslamic purpose and help the other one who takes the leadership.

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT

So you're saying anwar did say it was ok to attack innocents and you're condoning that?

Lol, you can check what anwar (ra) said at the beginning - after the false flag event on 9/11/2001, near the middle after the illegal pirate invasion of Iraq, near the end after being imprisoned and held without just cause (and being interviewed by the cia during his illegal detention), and near the end when he came to the conclusion that all the human rights rhetoric from secularists was a smokescreen for the attempted secularist liberalist impositions on conservative and liberal Muslim majority populations by using "christian conservatism" as the vessel of invasion so that the world remained confused and so that the two party divide in america was utilised as has always been to push secularist liberism in the name of God. And that Muslims needed to wield the power of government along with it's social, spiritual, economic and diplomatic systems along with the military capability that is required by a government in order to be real and succeed rather than a namesake brand-name poster utilized by puppet wolves in sheeps clothing. Malcolm X came to similar conclusions.

anyway, why would you need me to twist his words when you can research it easily?
He was not a greedy, selfish and bloodthirsty capitalist seeking to get rich off unjust wars and murders of millions, rather he - like his predecessor Sheikh Usama - was sympathetic, soft hearted and selfless and saw the need to do something in order to stop injustice and establish the Kingdom of God on earth so that people can prosper in this world and in eternity.

Maybe take the time to read the letters of Usama and watch his interviews rather than believe the lies of the pirate secularists if you want to be certain of this fact. Watch or listen to anwar's lectures rather than bend backwards to condemn without any knowledge.

The way I see it, he was a person who understood that it is wrong for anyone to commit unjust aggression, but the sad reality is that criminals exist, so if a person from the house opposite to one's own house throws a brick into the person's house without a halal cause, the wronged person attempts to get justice without taking the matter into their own hands, however, if no one in that house opposite to bothers to take just action, and nobody else does, or they even join in throwing mud at the wronged person and threatening and abusing the people who have been wronged, then the wronged person or people have a right to throw a similar or smaller brick straight into that unjust house opposite in order to ensure that people know that it isn't ok to commit injustice and that injustice has consequences unless there is sincere repentance.
If that sounds illogical to anyone then they need to do some IQ tests to see if they have any malfunctioning parts in the processing section of their brain.

Here's how he started off:



After becoming more vocal following the illegal pirate invasion of Iraq:



This is how he turned out after suffering injustice first hand, you can see that most of it is more reactionary than his undisturbed and unabused nature would have been:



It progressed in a similar fashion to the non-violent call of the Prophet pbuh in Makkah, the unjust torture and murders of people such as sumayyah umm 'ammar just for claiming that there were no gods but Almighty God, the constant calls to the Muslims for self-restraint, the harassment and attempt to force them back from abyssinya after having LEFT their homes due to escape persecution, the migration to al madinah and then the following struggles in God's path.