There is no thing as true love?

Assalaamu alaikum my dear,

(gently) I have seen quite a few of your threads, and it seems to me that you might find it helpful to read Yasmin Mogahed's book Reclaim Your Heart. (smile) It's a short book, with easy-to-read chapters. I think it might help to answer the questions that welling up in your heart. Here is a trailer about the book: https://www.youtube.com/user/YasminMogahedOnline

May Allah, the Compassionate, Enfold you in His Care.

There's a difference between well thought out selfish love - and little thought out short term selfish desire.

When one thinks about it carefully, self interest ultimately rules in every decision.

If that decision is based on true rational thinking, it will be for the sake of Allah - since that's where the ultimate rewards are.

A person would most likely realize that he/she does not love his/her real mother but has a worldly selfish attachment to her - if he/she later found that someone else was his/her real mother, he/she might be confused as to why he/she hadn't loved them and why they thought they had loved the fake mother - short term self interest.


It is related from Abu Hurayra that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said,
"Ibrahim will meet his father Azar on the Day of Rising, and darkness and dust will be on the face of Azar.
Ibrahim will say to him, 'Did I not tell you not to disobey me?' His father will say, 'Today I will not disobey you.'
Ibrahim will say, 'O Lord, You promised me that You would not disagrace me on the Day when they are raised up! What disgrace is greater than that of my father being far from mercy!'
Allah Almighty will say, 'I have made the Garden unlawful for the unbelievers.' Then it will be said, 'O Ibrahim! What is under your feet?' He will look and there will be a blood-stained hyena which will be taken by the legs and thrown into the Fire."

-Sahih Bukhari, No. 3350

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/archi...p/t-14253.html

When 'Umar decided to love the messenger of Allah more than himself, it seems quite superficial until you think about it a little deeply. If he believes that the messenger's decisions are wiser and better for himself than his own, and that he will be ressurected again and judged and rewarded or tortured by Allah , the rule of self interest logically suggests that he must care for the life and well-being of the messenger more than his own.

That's true love - yet rational self interest is essential.

It requires far-sightedness, then it makes sense, especially when one reads stories of Sahaabah giving their lives willingly in the struggle for Allah's sake, and compare them with the secularist who gives his life for liars like bush, obama, and donald trump who use the flag as an idol with ambiguous connotations that are really geared towards preservation of privileges for the rich whilst they live on earth.
I find it difficult to see the logic in dying for a paycheck and "nationalism" (clay worship) even if the system behind it might temporarily prevail - since the person dying is personally gaining nothing, while at the same time, going to hell, and if the fight is lost after him, nobody he's leaving behind gains anything, and all worldly empires inevitably collapse, and even if those left behind prevail 'til the end of the world - they'll disown him.

True love is not hawaa (airy fluttering desires) but is built upon a solid foundation and aim.No one ends up with a broken heart if they truly love Allah, and they only love the messenger and others for the sake of Allah, and Allah is jealous when it comes to love.

Hadith on Love:

Umar learns to love the Prophet even more
Posted by Abu Amina Elias

Abdullah ibn Hisham reported:

We were with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, and he was holding the hand of Umar ibn Al-Khattab. Umar said to him, “O Messenger of Allah, you are more beloved to me than everything but myself.” The Prophet said, “No, by the one in whose hand is my soul, until I am more beloved to you than yourself.” Umar said, “Indeed, I swear by Allah that you are more beloved to me now than myself.” The Prophet said, “Now you are right, O Umar.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 6257Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Bukhari

عن عبد الله بن هشام قَالَ كُنَّا مَعَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَهُوَ آخِذٌ بِيَدِ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ فَقَالَ لَهُ عُمَرُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ لأَنْتَ أَحَبُّ إِلَيَّ مِنْ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ إِلا نَفْسِي فَقَالَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لا وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ حَتَّى أَكُونَ أَحَبَّ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ نَفْسِكَ فَقَالَ لَهُ عُمَرُ فَإِنَّهُ الآنَ وَاللَّهِ لأَنْتَ أَحَبُّ إِلَيَّ مِنْ نَفْسِي فَقَالَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الآنَ يَا عُمَرُ6257 صحيح البخاري كتاب الأيمان والنذور باب كيف كانت يمين النبي صلى الله عليه وسل----19

http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com...-his-own-self/



19.Now Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd.
20Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you.”
21He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.

From Luke 8.

I found this article which indicates that it is to do with the reward centers in the brain, so we can see that there is irrational love which is more like a hack on the reward system, and rational love which I believe is true love, and that true love is very long sighted, taking everything including death qnd resdurection into account and sorting based on priority.

Such a method of loving may seem a bit cold and calculating to some, but once reason sets in it becomes mature in place of immature.


Here's a small excerpt from the linked article:

In 2005, Fisher led a research team that published a groundbreaking study that included the first functional MRI (fMRI) images of the brains of individuals in the throes of romantic love. Her team analyzed 2,500 brain scans of college students who viewed pictures of someone special to them and compared the scans to ones taken when the students looked at pictures of acquaintances. Photos of people they romantically loved caused the participants’ brains to become active in regions rich with dopamine, the so-called feel-good neurotransmitter. Two of the brain regions that showed activity in the fMRI scans were the caudate nucleus, a region associated with reward detection and expectation and the integration of sensory experiences into social behavior, and the ventral tegmental area, which is associated with pleasure, focused attention, and the motivation to pursue and acquire rewards.

The ventral tegmental area is part of what is known as the brain’s reward circuit, which, coincidentally, was discovered by Olds’s father, James, when she was 7 years old. This circuit is considered to be a primitive neural network, meaning it is evolutionarily old; it links with the nucleus accumbens. Some of the other structures that contribute to the reward circuit—the amygdala, the hippocampus, and the prefrontal cortex—are exceptionally sensitive to (and reinforcing of) behavior that induces pleasure, such as sex, food consumption, and drug use.

http://neuro.hms.harvard.edu/harvard...love-and-brain




And here's another:

Impassioned lovers distort reality, change their priorities and daily habits to accommodate the beloved, experience personality changes (affect disturbance), and sometimes do inappropriate or risky things to impress this special other. Many are willing to sacrifice, even die for, “him” or “her.”

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cr.../#.WX4HaJhxXJs



So we can surmise that love of Allah makes one least selfish in worldly terms, and since Allah's way is the most balanced and just, it is good for those who live on earth due to the fact that worldly selfishness and unjust greed and hatred evaporate and rational decisions begin to take priority even if it means death of the individual making the decision as Allah's love sets in.

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

True love is if you feel you want to give happiness to the others without you expect something from them.

What's the logical equation to that, is it really true when you would give to one close but not to another distant - despite both having exactly the same qualities.

Do natural self preservation tendencies not play even a small part? - the u scratch my back I'll scratch yours scenario, or you make the furniture, I'll make the tools, and x makes the paint, whilst y does the farming, whilst z does the cooking, that way all of us are less burdened.
At home, we all play a role that supports others, outside, we charge for goods in case the favour is not returned.
Lots of variables, can get confusing or even hurtful if there's no set standard.
it's essential human psychology, and is best regulated by Allah's guidance, otherwise I'd be helping someone I really love sell drugs and support them in the wild.

I can also safely say that if there was no judgement, paradise, or hell, my reward center would certainly make other more immediate things a priority since it wouldn't make a difference as to whether Allah existed or not. "I" would take position number 1, and that can get bad when there's competition.

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

Assalamualaikum brother Abz2000

brother ardianto and to all who sincerely follow Allah 's guidance,
:jzk: for the reply,

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

True love comes from empathy, the feeling that you feel care to the others and want to do something good for them without expect a compensation. In example, if you give your food to the hunger person without you expect thank.

I know it is possible to an extent - depending on different variables such as upbringing (role model influence), seeing a picture bigger than oneself, self sufficiency, spending patterns, sympathy due to having been in a similar position etc.
Though the example you gave appears to point more to pity than love.
I used to also give when I could before I was practicing Islam of my own accord but not as confidently as I do now, and I recall feeling like I'd done a big thing when I'd give a decent amount (according to circumstances), which I rarely feel now since it feels more like a duty to give with the certainty that all wealth is Allah's wealth anyway.
I did also go through selfish phases where I took as much as I could regardless of how (dog eat dog mentality) so I can say that yes I learned to give, and it had a lot to do with seeing my mum keep a mosque pot for coins since I can remember even though we'd walk to shopping in order to save the bus fare etc, and also due to the fact that she'd give poor relatives large amounts, and also collect for their marriages or concrete houses or tin roofs etc.

But my peer influences also didn't leave me with any qualms about sticking anything I decided I liked in my jacket when hanging out at shops with school friends, doing dodgy deals which I won't mention had no issues other than the risk getting caught, and the idea of sticking up a local newsagent was no big issue other than the sentence it would carry.

The difference I noticed after starting to take serious interest in Islam is that there are set standards to go by, some good things became normal instead of special, and others became scary and later became abhorrent as time passed.

If a male came knocking on my door to sell something or to beg at Jumu'ah time, I wouldn't even think twice about buying or giving, but now, if I catch them in my family estate during the time when males are usually at the mosque on Friday, I admonish, threaten, or punish them because I see it as a grave crossing of a red line.

I can definitely say that multiple external influences regularly swayed my way of thinking and emotions in the past, but Islam gave me stability and consistency, it's way beyond mere emotion.

I remember surah al insaan:
8. And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive,-
9. (Saying),"We feed you for the sake of Allah alone: no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks.
10. "We only fear a Day of distressful Wrath from the side of our Lord."

And I remember this:

26. And render to the kindred their due rights, as (also) to those in want, and to the wayfarer: But squander not (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift.
27. Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Evil Ones; and the Evil One is to his Lord (himself) ungrateful.
28. And even if thou hast to turn away from them in pursuit of the Mercy from thy Lord which thou dost expect, yet speak to them a word of easy kindness.
29. Make not thy hand tied (like a niggard's) to thy neck, nor stretch it forth to its utmost reach, so that thou become blameworthy and destitute.
30. Verily thy Lord doth provide sustenance in abundance for whom He pleaseth, and He provideth in a just measure. For He doth know and regard all His servants.
31. Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin.
32. Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
33. Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).
34. Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength; and fulfil (every) engagement, for (every) engagement will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
35. Give full measure when ye measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight: that is the most fitting and the most advantageous in the final determination.
36. And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
37. Nor walk on the earth with insolence: for thou canst not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height.
38. Of all such things the evil is hateful in the sight of thy Lord.
39. These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.


This model works for everyone if everyone follows it rather than hoping that some people might have some empathy.

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

But empathy is different than solidarity. If you help your friend to sell drugs, this is not empathy, but solidarity. Solidarity can lead to something good, can lead to something bad.

This is true in many cases, but the line between solidarity and love can become blurry when it's not fixed for Allah's sake since there are often multiple complicated factors involved.

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

How about true love?. You can be say you love your drug dealer friend if you are always willing to guide him back to the right path because you believe he can become good person, when other people have left him and not care on him anymore. One sign of true love is willingness to not leave someone.

I've noticed that lack of a strong willed and disciplined fear of Allah can send it all haywire, especially when you know they're going to do it anyway and you know that you're their only reliable contact, you can end up falling into the lesser of evils type of thinking if you've been there before unless you learn to be an adamant fundamentalist who sticks to his solid principles come wind or rain and is willing to spurn them despite the strongest of worldly bonds.

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

A husband can be called has true love if he still love his wife although his wife has lost her beauty due to accident or illness. A husband with true love always want to give something to his wife and makes her happy. However, if a husband decide to do something wrong like stealing only to satisfy his wife greed on money, this is not true love, but a stupidity.

Again, if not for Allah's sake this so called true love (which i don't personally believe to be soundly true regardless of how strong it is) is often an unreliable standard, firstly because it depends on the individual's standards which are difficult to get to the bottom of and can take a lifetime trying to fathom, and secondly because they are subject to change at any moment since there's no baseline and any wild excuse or clause can be thrown in at any time.
With the Islamic method, you just have to measure a potential spouse by Allah's standards and hope they're genuine and stick to it, and you stick to it, and if they betray you or even begin to fall short, you can check each other with it.

Regarding the stealing for her part, again it depends on the standard, if it's Allah's standard, both of you know where each stands, one won't dare to ask, the other won't dare to do. Otherwise it's a case of: oh please ask me for the moon but not john the baptist'd head, oh well then, if you insist.

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

In true love the heart still working to distinguish which the good which the bad. If you think what your wife ask from you is good for her, you will not hesitate to give. However, if you think what your wife ask from you can cause something bad for her, you will not give what she want because you don't want something bad happen to her.

Again the good and bad cannot easily become wildly subjective by variables such as personal likes and dislikes, laws signed by politicians (and they're usually more corrupt than the average citizen in any given country these days), and can usually be easily evaluated quite rationally and soundly with Allah's standard.

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto

So the essence of my observation is that sole dependence on the chemical state of the human mind is not a very wise choice, especially given the multiple variables which include local and international influences but nothing internally binding.
Going by utter submission to Allah whilst being aware of the Promised eventual judgement, rewards, and punishments works to build a sound standard that not only transcends the self and the planet, but sets individual internal standards that are easy to evaluate the self and others by and also keep in and bring into check.
Islam is a solid and stable matrix that is balanced in every aspect. It not only works for physical, spiritual and social well being, also keeping the reward and motivation centers on a level higher than worldly life itself, this is also being proven from the fact that people who know it well are finding more reason to adhere to and establish it than to drop it despite the persecutions and short sighted drawbacks, the worse things get, the more motivated and anxious people become to work towards achievement, I see no parallel in todays world.

Feel free to dispute or confirm any parts as these are my personal observations, and the human psychology field has many interesting angles, and every angle is a goldmine for pondering.

Again for replying, agreeing or even arguing makes a person start thinking about stuff they never thought about before.

Here's a good example where some brothers who talk to others and themselves where there's no easily visible short term reason for disciplining themselves and walking straight, it would seem abnormal in the conditions and circumstances, but even though the reasons can't be seen by everyone, the motivation is strong and ever present.
Try to imagine, would almost a quarter of the earth's population fast for a whole month together at the same time even if they saw the benefits had it not been for the sake of Allah?
Doesn't this constant reminder of Allah's presence teach them to check themselves constantly, even when nobody else is there and nobody else will be harmed by their failings? doesn't this work towards making them more thoughtful and disciplined individuals more prone to make sound decisions and better equipped to take the reins of the future generation?

" "I" would take position number 1, and that can get bad when there's competition. "

...this is when it gets bad.

Really its like you can set your watch by how these people move.. and also when.

Feels bad. Knowing and not being able to do anything about it.

I guess allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.

...even the robbers turn up on time. (Still remember the guy that opened the "door" for them.)

Although its far from a game when compulsion is involved.

Just somebody elses hand.

The clever ones poo on other peoples doorsteps.

..a pile of expendable no.2's

..not really easy to find thrones opposing.

Keep busy..keep asleep.

Love is very personal experience and I think all people describe it by their own ways. What is true love for one, might means something else to other. If someone says this is true love to me, nobody can deny it as it´s personal and inner matter of that other person.

^ ^ @M.I.A. what do the blank parts between the lines mean?

Its a dramatic pause.

Although i have no sense of timing so people have usually left the room before i speak.

"/

... o_0

I may have been a real boy once.. now i am wooden.

I may actually be a straw man.

format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.

Its a dramatic pause.

Although i have no sense of timing so people have usually left the room before i speak.

"/

... o_0

I may have been a real boy once.. now i am wooden.

I may actually be a straw man.

First part is funny
Second part, the strawman, highly intriguing - that one can be seen different ways,
One is a false argument for deconstruction, (sometimes it's in a mirror - sometimes a decoy or red herring).
Another is seen in the fields and it's made of straw and it has both arms sticking out (without resting on angels or people)- a scarecrow (scare - frighten) (crow - a dark bird) actually works to an extent.
Better to acknowledge the truth though, then the scarecrow doesn't become real, and the real isn't confused as a scarecrow, and everyone retains (or salvages) their sanity.

..eh.. i was making a wizard of OZ reference.

But ambiguity works.

I agree though, the truth is all encompassing. It has the power to hold many things inanimate.

Through good conduct and much more besides.

Which also aids movement i suppose..

Two sides of the same coin.

I also just made a connection......
......that:
hay and straw are blonde.

500_F_29086500_LiQS8JoAsBoN05dLKarw3LUEDQZXohIz.jpg Z.jpg

Yes, quite.

It is what it is.. you cant really pretend to be something that your not.

Wherever your lead and whoever your lead by.

...and the stark realisation, that its us that open the door.