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    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy. (OP)


    Assalamu Alaikum.
    Please note.
    1)-That the Earth has to be billions of years old for the theory of evolution to be true.Evolution is a slow process that requires billions of years.Hence,if the Earth is let us say,only a few thousands or even some hundred of thousand years old,Evolution cannot occur and this theory is false.
    2)-The Presenter is a Christian.The Quran has ordered us Muslims to judge previous scriptures by using the Quran as criterian,i.e,that which agrees with the Quran,Muslims agree that it is the truth.And that part of the scriptures,which disagree with the Quran,we disregard them.The Presenter presents Bible verses throughout his presentation.And they are in agreement with the Islamic view.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_OlX7M5MLA

    - - - Updated - - -

    Moreover,this person is also a Zionist.I recommend you not to listen to his videos other than Evolution and his debates with Evolutionists.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    Exactly...he has a turkish television show where he discusses islam and dances around with half naked women.

    He interprets some islamic rules on his own way...

    Someone who thinks he is a true islamic scholar is out of his mind
    I think you should choose suitable words when you criticise any scholar on the board.

    I've never watched, read, listened to Harun Yahya.

    But I assert this aspect of Islam that we should not speak ill of scholars whether they are good or bad.

    I dislike several scholars but I never disrespect them.

    Btw, you are free to say what you wish despite this advice of mine.
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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    I think you should choose suitable words when you criticise any scholar on the board.

    I've never watched, read, listened to Harun Yahya.

    But I assert this aspect of Islam that we should not speak ill of scholars whether they are good or bad.

    I dislike several scholars but I never disrespect them.

    Btw, you are free to say what you wish despite this advice of mine.
    Normally. I would totally agree with you. A scholar would be someone who studies Islam in great detail with the purpose of enlightening it to others who need it.
    This guy however, has no other purpose than fattening his own wallet. He has been charged and sentenced to jail several times. the last time for having a criminal organisation.
    This guy has been threatening and blackmailing people to participate in his shows. most, if not all of his "kittens" have undergone plastic surgery. He is not interested in enlightening Islam. He has his own agenda.
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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    Normally. I would totally agree with you. A scholar would be someone who studies Islam in great detail with the purpose of enlightening it to others who need it.This guy however, has no other purpose than fattening his own wallet. He has been charged and sentenced to jail several times. the last time for having a criminal organisation.This guy has been threatening and blackmailing people to participate in his shows. most, if not all of his "kittens" have undergone plastic surgery. He is not interested in enlightening Islam. He has his own agenda.
    everybody is accountable for his own deeds...
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    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you Mustafa16;



    If that is the case, then humans, monkeys and apes have clay or dirt as their common ancestor. Adam was made of clay and dirt from Earth.

    I think the theory of evolution is sadly lacking.

    In the spirit of searching for our Creator.

    Eric
    Hijra Eric.Yes humans, apes and monkeys and the other creatures were made of clay and dirt so share the same ancestor. That is how Allah created life on earth and Adam finally through evolution. That makes sense to me from an Islamic and scientific point of view.
    Last edited by anatolian; 01-29-2018 at 07:24 AM.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    everybody is accountable for his own deeds...
    yes that is right, but still...he has an examplary function. you cannot say "follow my words, but do not follow my deeds". How would you feel if you got a speeding ticket for only 3 km/h too fast written out by a cop who speeds off afterwards wearing no safety belts? not a nice feeling right?
    with his television shows, he gives the illusion that plastical chirurgy and that walking around with heavy make up and half naked is allowed in Islam. So, he is giving mixed signals.
    Imagine this...you want information on a specific subject. you know, person X posesses the knowlegde to give you this information. but the information this person X releases, can be heavily influenced by his own morals, motives or his purpose...in other words, you do not know what he wants to achieve with his answer...so the answer can not be trusted.

    that is how I feel about this guy...he is not transparent...he is not a teacher I can value...you cannot trust this guy.

    have you seen how he has been spending his new years eve? he has been dancing around with multiple women and sitting at a very luxurous table having dinner altogether.
    seeing him celebrating new year, and having the question in your mind like "what does Islam say about celebrating new year?" what answer do you expect from such a scholar?

    I don't know about you, but I would search for another scholar to answer my questions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    everybody is accountable for his own deeds...
    yes that is right, but still...he has an examplary function. you cannot say "follow my words, but do not follow my deeds". How would you feel if you got a speeding ticket for only 3 km/h too fast written out by a cop who speeds off afterwards wearing no safety belts? not a nice feeling right?
    with his television shows, he gives the illusion that plastical chirurgy and that walking around with heavy make up and half naked is allowed in Islam. So, he is giving mixed signals.
    Imagine this...you want information on a specific subject. you know, person X posesses the knowlegde to give you this information. but the information this person X releases, can be heavily influenced by his own morals, motives or his purpose...in other words, you do not know what he wants to achieve with his answer...so the answer can not be trusted.

    that is how I feel about this guy...he is not transparent...he is not a teacher I can value...you cannot trust this guy.

    have you seen how he has been spending his new years eve? he has been dancing around with multiple women and sitting at a very luxurous table having dinner altogether.
    seeing him celebrating new year, and having the question in your mind like "what does Islam say about celebrating new year?" what answer do you expect from such a scholar?

    I don't know about you, but I would search for another scholar to answer my questions.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    yes that is right, but still...he has an examplary function. you cannot say "follow my words, but do not follow my deeds". How would you feel if you got a speeding ticket for only 3 km/h too fast written out by a cop who speeds off afterwards wearing no safety belts? not a nice feeling right?with his television shows, he gives the illusion that plastical chirurgy and that walking around with heavy make up and half naked is allowed in Islam. So, he is giving mixed signals.Imagine this...you want information on a specific subject. you know, person X posesses the knowlegde to give you this information. but the information this person X releases, can be heavily influenced by his own morals, motives or his purpose...in other words, you do not know what he wants to achieve with his answer...so the answer can not be trusted.that is how I feel about this guy...he is not transparent...he is not a teacher I can value...you cannot trust this guy.have you seen how he has been spending his new years eve? he has been dancing around with multiple women and sitting at a very luxurous table having dinner altogether.seeing him celebrating new year, and having the question in your mind like "what does Islam say about celebrating new year?" what answer do you expect from such a scholar?I don't know about you, but I would search for another scholar to answer my questions.- - - Updated - - -yes that is right, but still...he has an examplary function. you cannot say "follow my words, but do not follow my deeds". How would you feel if you got a speeding ticket for only 3 km/h too fast written out by a cop who speeds off afterwards wearing no safety belts? not a nice feeling right?with his television shows, he gives the illusion that plastical chirurgy and that walking around with heavy make up and half naked is allowed in Islam. So, he is giving mixed signals.Imagine this...you want information on a specific subject. you know, person X posesses the knowlegde to give you this information. but the information this person X releases, can be heavily influenced by his own morals, motives or his purpose...in other words, you do not know what he wants to achieve with his answer...so the answer can not be trusted.that is how I feel about this guy...he is not transparent...he is not a teacher I can value...you cannot trust this guy.have you seen how he has been spending his new years eve? he has been dancing around with multiple women and sitting at a very luxurous table having dinner altogether.seeing him celebrating new year, and having the question in your mind like "what does Islam say about celebrating new year?" what answer do you expect from such a scholar?I don't know about you, but I would search for another scholar to answer my questions.
    Having been punished for sins even the deviant scholars probably be ranked on higher level than us in jannah for knowledge of Quran and Hadith. However, we can abstain from following them
    Last edited by azc; 01-29-2018 at 08:54 AM.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    Having been punished for sins even the deviant scholars probably be ranked on higher level than us in jannah for knowledge of Quran and Hadith. However, we can abstain from following them
    No.
    With the right intention and use of this knowledge, yes you are propbably right. If you have the intention as an examplary scholar to guide people to the truth and to enlighten them...and by doing that you accidentally give the wrong information...then, yes...this person probably still has a higher rank in jannah than most of us despite this accidental wrong information...because this was not his intention to misguide people.


    But in this case...on purpose giving out mixed signals. shouting stuff which are not clear why he said that (is it really the truth? or does he have some hidden purpose behind his words?
    Do you know how big the sin is of misguiding people on purpose?
    an indication...Allah can fogive you every sin if you seek forgiveness from it....but He will NOT forgive the sins which include doing wrong to others...in these cases you have to ask forgiveness to the people who you wronged. if they forgive you..then, and only then, Allah will forgive you too.
    otherwise, this would be injustice to the others.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    No.
    With the right intention and use of this knowledge, yes you are propbably right. If you have the intention as an examplary scholar to guide people to the truth and to enlighten them...and by doing that you accidentally give the wrong information...then, yes...this person probably still has a higher rank in jannah than most of us despite this accidental wrong information...because this was not his intention to misguide people.


    But in this case...on purpose giving out mixed signals. shouting stuff which are not clear why he said that (is it really the truth? or does he have some hidden purpose behind his words?
    Do you know how big the sin is of misguiding people on purpose?
    an indication...Allah can fogive you every sin if you seek forgiveness from it....but He will NOT forgive the sins which include doing wrong to others...in these cases you have to ask forgiveness to the people who you wronged. if they forgive you..then, and only then, Allah will forgive you too.
    otherwise, this would be injustice to the others.
    Followers will also be held responsible in this case, as to why they didn't use their reasoning power. It's not so simple as you think.
    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    Followers will also be held responsible in this case, as to why they didn't use their reasoning power. It's not so simple as you think.
    yes of course. that is true...but still. there is always this misleading on purpose thing. guiding people in such a way he can benefit from them. the intention is wrong.
    Of course there are people who see through that, and do not fall for it...but then, there are also people who do beleive him.
    now you can say, they are responsible who they are following...but not everyone can clearly see that his intentions are not completely correct. and these people can not always be held responsible for the full 100% for being misled.

    besides, do you think he earns much credits for having such wrong intentions? I doubt that...but Allah knows best of course.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    yes of course. that is true...but still. there is always this misleading on purpose thing. guiding people in such a way he can benefit from them. the intention is wrong.Of course there are people who see through that, and do not fall for it...but then, there are also people who do beleive him.now you can say, they are responsible who they are following...but not everyone can clearly see that his intentions are not completely correct. and these people can not always be held responsible for the full 100% for being misled.besides, do you think he earns much credits for having such wrong intentions? I doubt that...but Allah knows best of course.
    shaytan mislead us and we are misled. In this case, will we be held responsible for following shaytan...? If not, then you are right that followers of wrong scholars will not be held responsible otherwise you are not right
    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    shaytan mislead us and we are misled. In this case, will we be held responsible for following shaytan...? If not, then you are right that followers of wrong scholars will not be held responsible otherwise you are not right
    No. that is not the same.
    In the case of the shaytaan, you know he cannot be trusted so following him is wrong and therefore you will be held responsible for that.
    In the case of this scholar...you do not explicitely know he is wrong. There are still numerous people out there who are easiliy pursuaded or manipulated. they do not always manage to see that something is wrong. like said, they are looking for answers to their questions, and this guy gives them the "answers" but not neccessarily the correct answer. They just trust him because he knows so much.
    in short, these followers are on the right path...with right intentions...but they stumble upon the wrong person. that is a different case.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    No. that is not the same.In the case of the shaytaan, you know he cannot be trusted so following him is wrong and therefore you will be held responsible for that.In the case of this scholar...you do not explicitely know he is wrong. There are still numerous people out there who are easiliy pursuaded or manipulated. they do not always manage to see that something is wrong. like said, they are looking for answers to their questions, and this guy gives them the "answers" but not neccessarily the correct answer. They just trust him because he knows so much. in short, these followers are on the right path...with right intentions...but they stumble upon the wrong person. that is a different case.
    even those people who didn't get the msg of Islam and remained in darkness without knowing who is their creator will be accountable for not using their reasoning power to recognise their Lord let alone the followers of such scholars
    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    even those people who didn't get the msg of Islam and remained in darkness without knowing who is their creator will be accountable for not using their reasoning power to recognise their Lord let alone the followers of such scholars
    yes that is true of course...but still...

    its kinda like you are saying that everyone who ever got ripped off, swindled or conned, has to blame himself for it because he did not use his proper reasoning at that moment. like imposters, frauds, scammers and lyers cannot be blamed anything, because we were stupid enough to believe in them.

    It is about trusting these people. it is about believing in them that they tell you things to enlighten you, and not to earn your naive trust and benefit from you later on.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    yes that is true of course...but still...its kinda like you are saying that everyone who ever got ripped off, swindled or conned, has to blame himself for it because he did not use his proper reasoning at that moment. like imposters, frauds, scammers and lyers cannot be blamed anything, because we were stupid enough to believe in them. It is about trusting these people. it is about believing in them that they tell you things to enlighten you, and not to earn your naive trust and benefit from you later on.
    So, followers will not be held responsible... Right..?
    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    So, followers will not be held responsible... Right..?
    wrong...
    It is not so black and white as you think. there are many graytones in between.
    there are parts or situations where the followers should have known better so they are responsible for it...but there are also parts where the follower has no blame so then they are not responsible.
    but the scholar who deliberately provides information just for his own benefit, is always responsible...and partially responsible for the actions the follower takes which flow directly from that.
    But if the scholar provides information which was not accurate, but he did not do that on purpose...then he is not responsible of course.

    being a scholar is a big responsibility...it can lead you to jannah if your intensions are good...but it can also lead you to jahannam really quickly.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by umie View Post
    wrong...It is not so black and white as you think. there are many graytones in between.there are parts or situations where the followers should have known better so they are responsible for it...but there are also parts where the follower has no blame so then they are not responsible.but the scholar who deliberately provides information just for his own benefit, is always responsible...and partially responsible for the actions the follower takes which flow directly from that.But if the scholar provides information which was not accurate, but he did not do that on purpose...then he is not responsible of course.being a scholar is a big responsibility...it can lead you to jannah if your intensions are good...but it can also lead you to jahannam really quickly.
    Remember) the day when We will call every people with their imam. (surah bani israeel #71)
    The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Didn't the Islamic scholar Mohamed Ghlian suggest that humanity arose from a single ancestor of some kind? Others have said that there were creatures on Earth before humans, which could of course be other forms of life (single-celled organisms, bacteria, etc.)

    Throughout history, there has been support for the concept of the Darwinian "survival/struggle of the fittest" among many Muslim writers.

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silas View Post
    Didn't the Islamic scholar Mohamed Ghlian suggest that humanity arose from a single ancestor of some kind? Others have said that there were creatures on Earth before humans, which could of course be other forms of life (single-celled organisms, bacteria, etc.)

    Throughout history, there has been support for the concept of the Darwinian "survival/struggle of the fittest" among many Muslim writers.
    This kind of opinion of a socalled Muslim scholar is reprehensible.

    Quran vividly says:

    “Verily, the likeness of ‘Eesa (Jesus) before Allaah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!’ — and he was”
    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:59]
    https://islamqa.info/en/13286
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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    This kind of opinion of a socalled Muslim scholar is reprehensible.

    Quran vividly says:

    “Verily, the likeness of ‘Eesa (Jesus) before Allaah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!’ — and he was”
    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:59]
    https://islamqa.info/en/13286
    But there is another way of looking at this yes? As one scholar writes:

    "(Allah is He) who has made everything He created better, and He began the creation of the human (being) out of clay (Al-Sajda, 32: 7).

    In this verse, we are told that the first creation of human beings was out of clay, but that was the beginning. The most relevant word in this verse is "began" (bada-a), which tells us clearly that the creation happened in a process that had a beginning. It did not happen at once"

    In other words, creation is not something that occurs in an instant (although Allah could certainly make it so), but is a process of becoming. As in the earlier passages of the Quran, which state that the heavens and the earth were like one before being separated, we see hints at how the world was formed. Science tells us cosmic dust and heavy elements swirled around (by gravity) and ultimately coalesced into the planets--there was a separation. Later, it is mentioned that life comes from water, and this is clearly the case, as water has existed on Earth for 4.7 billion years (before any living being) and is a necessary element of all life.

    So could it be that Allah has gathered up the "dust" or "clay" necessary to create Adam and Eve, and set the process of evolution in motion, knowing full well where it would end?

    7 million years is but an instant to a God that lives beyond and outside of time

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    Re: The Theory of Evolution is a Fantasy.

    Silas, the ayah you mentioned refer to Prophet Adam and the ayah after it 32:8 refutes your position.

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