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    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please) (OP)


    Assalamu Alaykom Wa Rahmat Allah.

    Alright, so I wanted to make a post like this for quite a while. But before I start, let me just quickly tell why im posting this. When I was young I was trying to get to know my religion more and more and get closer to Allah because I was facing lots of problems in life and was suffering from depression (I also wasn’t the best muslim because I was sinning ☹ but I was still a practicing muslim). Anyways, when I started to learn more and more I realized that the type of islam that was being preached by current scholars is very difficult and harsh to follow. I tryed to accept it somehow but the more I tried, the more resentment I developed towards islam. I felt like the only thing scholars of islam had to offer was fear and the loss of our self-worth (thinking that this is the only way to humbleness and humility).
    A lot of the scholars today keep bombarding us with how everything we do is haram and how much you should fear Allah and no matter what you do, you will never be as good as those people at the time of the prophet because your inherently evil. This is the type of mentality that I was able to observe and deduce from these people. Its like no matter how much you try your still evil because you don’t practice all the things that the prophet used to do (As if they expect you to be like a prophet or better). This is what started to make me feel quite resentful towards our religion and Islam in general.
    Ok, so basically, what I wanted to talk about is how scholars had made islam so unbearable to me and a lot of other people as well. I wanted to dedicate this post to discuss some of the things that are considered as Shubuhat (doubtful matters) that made scholars label it as haram just because they wanted people to be on the safe side instead of saying the truth (that is that they are unsure but are bias against those things).

    1) Music: Though there are some really good arguments made against music, those arguments are still not 100% solid. The reason is that there are some really good evidences that contradict those evidence in favor of the prohibition. (http://www.shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm)
    I do admit that the majority of the songs of today promote promiscuity, violence, sex and drugs. But there is still good music that don’t have any of these things in them! And that is why I think putting a haram label on ALL MUSIC IN GENERAL is completely wrong and insane!

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: Time and time again. We have heard it! Stories about 2 friends falling into temptation and committing zina. But guess what, we also heard stories about 2 friends of the same sex commit acts of homosexuality or stories about incest as well. Are you going to make those 2 haram as well? Im not saying that all boys and girls should have bfs & gfs. But to go as far as saying that all interaction between the genders is forbidden unless in times extreme need is insane. They even regard mixed school/university/job as haram! How much more are these people going to take away from us? All im asking for is being moderate in the ruling of prohibition. A friendly conversation between the opposites should not be considered as haram.

    3) Cosmetics: Some scholars say that all cosmetics are considered haram except in the case of extreme skin burns or facial structure damage. Wrong! Braces should be allowed because they restore that natural form of the human body. Breast implants for flat chested women, double chin removal, nose jobs for people with crooked or large noses. All these can be considered as restoring the original form of the human body. But some scholars regard it as haram

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: They claim it’s a form of imitation of women. Are fang necklaces and dog tags adornments of women? How about we look into how earrings came about, then we will see who was imitating who! (PS im not saying this because I wanted to wear earrings, instead I used to want to wear an adornment of high sentimental value back then, but was discouraged because of claims like this)

    5) Wedding anniversaries: Some claim its imitation of kuffar, some say its innovation and making an eid for yourself. First off, an Eid is an occasion of celebration for a group of people and is of religious basis. A wedding anniversary is neither.

    6) Birthdays: same as the one before

    7) Playing video games: waste of time.

    8) Watching movies: haram because music and free mixing

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: drawings are haram! What about plan ones? Still haram because its imitation of kuffar.

    On and on the list goes. If you actually realize, most of these prohibitions can applied to almost every single thing a human does in his day to day life in this era. So how is the person supposed to live? This mentality that most religious muslims have is so hard to apply in this day and age. Everything has to be related to the worship of Allah somehow in their minds.
    Honestly this is but a fraction of what I wanted to say but unfortunately, I don’t have much time. Its extremely difficult to put my thoughts and way of thinking in an organized and neat way for you guys to understand my full picture of things so I apologize for that.

    Its important to note, I want you guys to understand that Im not saying this to insult or destructively criticize anyone. I just wanted to share my mind with people who might be willing to listen and give me constructive feedback whether they support my opinion or not. So feel free to add on to this or open up a new perspective for me to look through.
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    beleiver's Avatar
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd View Post
    I see that is becoming more prevalent for Muslims to disrespect the scholars and think that their own opinion with regards to the religion is a better way to go. This is a grave mistake that will lead to misguidance that makes it even easier for the Shaytan. The premise that only Allah can judge disregards the very Law of Allah and His prescribed punishments for certain crimes. If you have a problem with certain punishments in the Quran and Sunnah, or think that they are barbaric and not "acceptable" by today's standard then you cannot be a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits his will to the Will of Allah. So continue to follow your religion of "Jedi" or whatever makes you feel better about your deluded self, but don't come on a Muslim site and have the audacity to give us your worthless opinion about the religion and all of its precepts.
    sorry i didnt realize this was a Muslim only forum? i am here to learn..And the OP asked for opinions he didn't express if he only wanted opinions from practicing Musilms or not.

    I only disrespect untruths.And it would be a little naive to think Satan wouldnt of tried to influence Islam..
    What i do not understand is who gets to be a scholar in Islam? I am confused how some one gains the Authority to partner with God?
    And which are these punishments you talk of? I am not against punishment for crimes, i question what constitutes a crime, like for example Music a crime I have asked this before here and no one has replied with an answer.

    I selected Jedi on the form more of a Joke as anything, I am searching Truth and believe that will lead me on the right path closer to God and his preferred way of life..Isnt that why we are here?
    Last edited by beleiver; 02-03-2018 at 02:13 AM.
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by 99sobi View Post
    I'm not trying to suggest a different ruling, I wouldn't dare do such a thing. I believe that actions are by intentions as the Prophet said, so if someone speaks to a woman with the intention of breaching her space, and making her feel uncomfortable, and not lowering his gaze, in order to flirt or anything like that, then he is sinning and going against the command of Allah. But if someone is speaking to a woman with the intention of helping her, or finding information about something, or anything that is not impermissible, then there is no sin being committed, because my intentions are not evil or bad. And Allah knows best
    Your intention is not questionable here. Rather It's to be seen whether or not Islam allows interacting with opposite gender..? Practically, what we do is a different matter.

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)

    You're most welcome here to learn, as we are all here for learning and sharing.


    (And peace be upon you)

    Quote Originally Posted by beleiver View Post
    sorry i didnt realize this was a Muslim only forum? i am here to learn..And the OP asked for opinions he didn't express if he only wanted opinions from practicing Musilms or not.

    I only disrespect untruths.And it would be a little naive to think Satan wouldnt of tried to influence Islam..
    What i do not understand is who gets to be a scholar in Islam? I am confused how some one gains the Authority to partner with God?
    And which are these punishments you talk of? I am not against punishment for crimes, i question what constitutes a crime, like for example Music a crime I have asked this before here and no one has replied with an answer.

    I selected Jedi on the form more of a Joke as anything, I am searching Truth and believe that will lead me on the right path closer to God and his preferred way of life..Isnt that why we are here?
    3 | Likes ChosenTCO, beleiver, Zafran liked this post

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Assalamu Alaykom Wa Rahmat Allah.

    Alright, so I wanted to make a post like this for quite a while. But before I start, let me just quickly tell why im posting this. When I was young I was trying to get to know my religion more and more and get closer to Allah because I was facing lots of problems in life and was suffering from depression (I also wasn’t the best muslim because I was sinning ☹ but I was still a practicing muslim). Anyways, when I started to learn more and more I realized that the type of islam that was being preached by current scholars is very difficult and harsh to follow. I tryed to accept it somehow but the more I tried, the more resentment I developed towards islam. I felt like the only thing scholars of islam had to offer was fear and the loss of our self-worth (thinking that this is the only way to humbleness and humility).
    A lot of the scholars today keep bombarding us with how everything we do is haram and how much you should fear Allah and no matter what you do, you will never be as good as those people at the time of the prophet because your inherently evil. This is the type of mentality that I was able to observe and deduce from these people. Its like no matter how much you try your still evil because you don’t practice all the things that the prophet used to do (As if they expect you to be like a prophet or better). This is what started to make me feel quite resentful towards our religion and Islam in general.
    Ok, so basically, what I wanted to talk about is how scholars had made islam so unbearable to me and a lot of other people as well. I wanted to dedicate this post to discuss some of the things that are considered as Shubuhat (doubtful matters) that made scholars label it as haram just because they wanted people to be on the safe side instead of saying the truth (that is that they are unsure but are bias against those things).

    1) Music: Though there are some really good arguments made against music, those arguments are still not 100% solid. The reason is that there are some really good evidences that contradict those evidence in favor of the prohibition. (http://www.shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm)
    I do admit that the majority of the songs of today promote promiscuity, violence, sex and drugs. But there is still good music that don’t have any of these things in them! And that is why I think putting a haram label on ALL MUSIC IN GENERAL is completely wrong and insane!

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: Time and time again. We have heard it! Stories about 2 friends falling into temptation and committing zina. But guess what, we also heard stories about 2 friends of the same sex commit acts of homosexuality or stories about incest as well. Are you going to make those 2 haram as well? Im not saying that all boys and girls should have bfs & gfs. But to go as far as saying that all interaction between the genders is forbidden unless in times extreme need is insane. They even regard mixed school/university/job as haram! How much more are these people going to take away from us? All im asking for is being moderate in the ruling of prohibition. A friendly conversation between the opposites should not be considered as haram.

    3) Cosmetics: Some scholars say that all cosmetics are considered haram except in the case of extreme skin burns or facial structure damage. Wrong! Braces should be allowed because they restore that natural form of the human body. Breast implants for flat chested women, double chin removal, nose jobs for people with crooked or large noses. All these can be considered as restoring the original form of the human body. But some scholars regard it as haram

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: They claim it’s a form of imitation of women. Are fang necklaces and dog tags adornments of women? How about we look into how earrings came about, then we will see who was imitating who! (PS im not saying this because I wanted to wear earrings, instead I used to want to wear an adornment of high sentimental value back then, but was discouraged because of claims like this)

    5) Wedding anniversaries: Some claim its imitation of kuffar, some say its innovation and making an eid for yourself. First off, an Eid is an occasion of celebration for a group of people and is of religious basis. A wedding anniversary is neither.

    6) Birthdays: same as the one before

    7) Playing video games: waste of time.

    8) Watching movies: haram because music and free mixing

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: drawings are haram! What about plan ones? Still haram because its imitation of kuffar.

    On and on the list goes. If you actually realize, most of these prohibitions can applied to almost every single thing a human does in his day to day life in this era. So how is the person supposed to live? This mentality that most religious muslims have is so hard to apply in this day and age. Everything has to be related to the worship of Allah somehow in their minds.
    Honestly this is but a fraction of what I wanted to say but unfortunately, I don’t have much time. Its extremely difficult to put my thoughts and way of thinking in an organized and neat way for you guys to understand my full picture of things so I apologize for that.

    Its important to note, I want you guys to understand that Im not saying this to insult or destructively criticize anyone. I just wanted to share my mind with people who might be willing to listen and give me constructive feedback whether they support my opinion or not. So feel free to add on to this or open up a new perspective for me to look through.
    Wa Alaikum Asalaam,

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us my brother. My own thoughts on what you have written in your post is that "are these rulings" really harsh? or is the reality that they are against our own desires? Most of the things you have mentioned are of the worldly things which not only distract from the Hereafter but are harmful and have corrupting and negative influences on our hearts and souls.

    Surely there is enough distraction and corrupting influences in the world already and these worldly desires you posted about are just adding to that. Not only that but surely we have already lost focus, or losing focus on the bigger picture in that we can die at any second which there is no difference of opinion on, and so we only have little time - some of us more than others. Therefore is indulging in our worldly desires really going to help us in this world and the next? Should we not be shunning anything that pulls us towards having love for the world and instead striving to go towards that which increases our desire for the Hereafter and to be with Allah?

    Let me comment further on the points you made:

    1. So you already acknowledge the utter filth that is apparent in todays mainstream music industry. An industry that is totally satanic and full of occultic symbolism, subliminal messaging, appealing to the lowly carnal desires, unspeakable negative and evil influences on our hearts and souls. Can anything good really be totally taken over by so much evil? Do your research on the industry and you will realise what it is really about and how the celebrities, actor/singers have sold their souls for fame. This is an industry that has created the worst people on Earth to be "idols" for the youth and mankind. Shaythan uses music as his weapon and believe me it is an effective one espeially to "distract" and corrupt the hearts and minds of the youth.

    You mention there is "some" good music. So your stance on this is to "fight" for the very little good music - if any - there is out there when the vast majority is totally controlled by evil? Where is the logic in that? Anyone who looks at the evidence for prohibition for music will realise that there is far greater evidence for prohibition than there is against. To be honest with you there is not much difference of opinion against prohibition of music at all except on certain occassions and using limited instruments. So my brother you are holding onto nothing with any substance here.

    2. With regards to interaction with the opposite sex then the example you gave with comparing a same gender friendship to an opposite gender friendship is absurd. You even mentioned incest? Why would you give such an extreme example which is totally irrevelant to what we are discussing? Yes there are isolated instances and cases where this may happen but of course in the vast majority of cases things like that do not happen. If they do then surely there is a corruption in the heart of the person who is inclined in such a way.

    What does happen in the vast majority of cases is that friendships between opposite genders gradually or instantly turn into much more than just friendships. Me, you and most of the people reading this have seen it and exprienced it around us but you are acting as though you have lived a sheltered existance that these things only happen in fairy tales?

    My brother the stance of having limited interactions with the opposite gender particularly when it comes to private interactions is not just an "isolated" opinion of a few scholars but it is a well known and established stance that is in the Qur'an and authentic Hadith and strongly supported by the past 1400 years of classical and scholarship. To be honest with you such prohibitions are far more important now than they have ever been because of the increasingly promiscuis and sexualised society we live in.

    That is not to say that we should shut ourselves away and never even look at the opposte gender let alone interact with them. But the point is that we limit our ineractions with them to what is necessery. There is no reason to expand further on why. Anyone with a little common sense knows that it only takes one conversation whethr at work, college, University, on the streets, shopping mall etc to spark or ignite passions and then things progress from there. There are tonnes of examples of these things happening all around us all the time, so there is absolutely no denying this fact at all and the dangers of freely mixing with the opposite gender. We were created as human beings to generally be attracted to the opposite gender, so do you think the creator is not the best one to give us advice on interaction between the genders?

    3. You mean to say "cosmetic procedures". I do not know of any majority opinion that states that if you have burns, or significant injury which changes the appearance of a bodily part that it cannot be corrected with corrective cosmetic surgery. However you say breast implants for flat chested women and nose jobs for people with large noses? So when did a flat chest or large nose become a deficiency? I find your logic very strange and very much influenced by the so called "societal norms" being pushed by those who deem what women and men should look like - not how they were created by Allah.

    So all of a sudden according to you the differences in the way Allah created us all with different sized noses, ears, chest, skin colour and shade etc includes many deficiencies? My brother desist from such harmful thinking lest you claim you know what is better than Allah. Allah has created us in the normal human form. It is "us" who have decided what is more beautiful and what is considered "deficient". This is pure arrogance and in fact this type of thinking is what causes a lot of suicides in our societies when certain people especially the youth are come under immense pressure to "physically conform", but feel like they cannot then many end up taking their lives or living in severe depression and feeling low confidence and self esteem.

    What may become deficient can happen through a natural birth defect, injury, illness etc but a person born with differences in physical form and appearance is absolutely not deficient! These people feel this way beause of the "perfect photoshopped human image" being pushed all over the media. There is no doubt that this is utter deception. In fact when Allah talks about this world being a deception then believe me it is more so than we think. We only have to look around us and research into what is going on to realise that we are living a lie.

    5 and 6. If you want to mark an anniversary or a birthday with some contemplation on what has passed and make a Dua for a blessed, happy and successful year ahead etc then there is nothing wrong with this. Anything more than that will be considerred an innovation. This has nothing to do with being restrictive just for the sake of it. Many of us fail to understand the wisdom behind many things so we just pull a tantrum and call it archaic and restrictive. But we should try to understand the wisdom behind many of the things we become rebellious about. In this particular case it is so that we do not become like those who follow and worship other than Allah in their customs and celebrations. Surely you have heard of " You are what you eat and you are who your friends are". Then what we eat and who we follow and hang around with will surely shape who we are. If not now then eventually. What we have to understand is that many of the wisdoms behind Islamic principles and teachings is taking preventative measures - or "prevention is better than cure".

    So in this case we are dissallowd to follow in the customs and practices of the disbelievers - much of which have pagan roots if you really look into it such as birthdays, anniverseries, New Year, Halloween etc. This is in order to preserve the pure and unadulterated way of life (deen) that Islam has given us. If we had a religion that was "anything goes" then surely we would have ended up like the modern day Christians whose practices and beliefs are nothing like the practices and beliefs of early Christians. This is because it has become a "anything goes" religion. But those who make excuses say it is because they are being "progressive". I do not see anything progressive about people losing all trust and faith in the Church. Actually what attracts many Christians to Islam is the "unadulterated" preservation of Islamic beliefs and practies. But if we want to live a "anything goes" kind of life then that is upto us. But surely we should be living lives where we put almighty Allah first. That is the real test of this life and the true success in this world and the next!

    7. It depends on the type and nature of the game but surely nowadays video games are very different from the early days of Atari. Amiga and Commodore 64. Video games have become so advanced that they are essentially like movies that we can control. Not only that but many of them are very explicit, voilent and can even take months to complete which involve spending significant amounts of time. So there is no doubt that video games like movies and mainstream music can be a terribley corrupting influence on society particularly the youth. Not only that but it can take significant amounts of our most valuable asset - time.

    As if there was not enough evil influences on our children but video games can present a huge danger to their psychological development. In fact there was a study done that looked at a class of children, where half of them played a "soft" game and the other half played a voilent game. There were some tests carried out on the children and it was found that in general the half that played the voilent games became much more desensitised than the other half that played soft games. So parents need to be very careful as to the nature and type of games their children are playing as well as restricting the amount of time they spend on such games as these games can become very addictive and will absolutely distract us from the "true reality, purpose and focus of our lives" to that of a virtual fantasy reality that gaming offers.

    8. This is very similar to my response to music but of course as well as Music, gaming, Television and the media - it goes without saying that the movie industry whether hollywood, bollywood, lollywood or nollywood is totally satanic. This is very apparent with the type of sybomlism and themes contained in the movies as well as the utter filth, promiscuity, voilence and horror that movies contain. It only takes a little research to establish what these industries are really about and the extent to which celebrities, actors, musicians sell their soul for fame. It also does not take much thought to establish that these movies have a very corrupting influence on our hearts and souls just like the gaming, music, Television and the media industry. Much of this negative corrupting influence is subliminal. This is no secret or "conspiracy" for it is something well known and if we really opened our eyes we would be able to see these evil industries for what they really are.

    So if we want to keep putting corrupting, negative, toxic influences into our hearts then we are only damaging ourselves. For surely there is enough toxicity thrown at us by pollution and the food, water and medicine we consume but on top of that we are mentally and physically corrupting ourselves further by constantly feeding our minds and hearts filth, rather than trying to clean and purify our hearts with the remembrance and glorification of Allah and spending our time learning and doing good and putting him "first" in all of our affairs! This is true success for surely our enemy shaythan wants to distract us until we are destroyed!

    9. My brother you only have to look at how the Jesuit Catholics corrupted Christianity with putting animate imagery all over the Churches to realise what a terribly damaging influence animate imagery has had on corrupting religions to the point that animate pictures and idols had become a source of worship. This is not only limited to Catholicism, Hinduism and many other religions particularly those of pagan origin. Even many people from our own faith have pictures and images of "peers" (saints) and Awliyah (alleged friends of Allah) up in their houses or they create dargah's (shrines) in which they put flowers and make offerings. Eventually these places become places where people come from afar to make Dua to them. Notice how it starts from an image to remember the saint but then gradually progresses to the point where these people become essentially worshipped.

    That is not to say that images on clothing etc may become a source of worship but it is the principle. In Islam we take great care to avoid any type of idolatary practices or imagery which can be deemed as shirk. This is because if we looked throughout history and the stories that Allah has given us then most of the nations of the past that we destroyed were those who worshipped other than Allah by creating images of idols and made them a source of worship. Therefore we keep away from all animate imagery, do not create images nor put them up in our homes. Lest shaythan decieves us for he is the biggest deciever of all!

    My brother if there is evidence in our deen to prohibit us from something that is harmful to us, potentially harmful to us or at least will harm us more than doing us any good then why do we have to rebel in accordance with our desires? Have we studied the deen to the depth of classical scholars and those who have inherited their knowledge today? Or is saying that my father studied in "Al Azhar" really enough to make us understand this deen and many of the wisdoms behind many of its teachings and principles? Why do we have to become so rebellious? What will we achieve by furthering that which will potentially harm us and those around us?

    You say Scholars are making things unbearable for us by prohibiting this and that, but my brother if you do not like the stance and approach of a particular scholar then find one whose stance and approach appeals to you. There is not a lack of scholars out there. You are making it out like the vast majority of scholars are like that which is totally false and even misleading. There are many scholars out there who are trying their best. They also have immense pressure on them especially in the present climate. They also have to be very careful what they say and the way in which they say it. However many of them are only trying their best to forward the knowledge from scholars of the past and also expanding on their works and applying it to present times. Just because you see todays society as "progressive" and more advanced than before it does not mean we should welcome all of the potentially evil, corrupting influence upon ourselves. We already have enough of that. We need more purity and goodness in our lives.

    If we want freedom then we have it. By all means we have free choice to live how we want. But remember on that day when we are all gathered together then it will be those of us who tried to put Allah first in our lives that will be truly successful. Then we will look back and think "what did I achieve from following my desires in the world? What did I achieve from being rebellious on that which was only for my benefit to avoid or limit." So my brother know that there is no compulsion on us for the way we live our lives but we have choices to make and diffeent paths to take but if we act treacherously in this world then there can only be a wretched end for us!

    May Allah enable us to focus on the bigger picture and what is really important and that which will help and benefit us to get closer to him and away from that which will harm us in this world and the next. Ameen
    Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 02-03-2018 at 04:46 AM.
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    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by beleiver View Post
    sorry i didnt realize this was a Muslim only forum?

    What i do not understand is who gets to be a scholar in Islam? I am confused how some one gains the Authority to partner with God?
    And which are these punishments you talk of? I am not against punishment for crimes, i question what constitutes a crime, like for example Music a crime I have asked this before here and no one has replied with an answer.
    welcome. It's not a muslim only forum. all are welcome so long as the rules are followed.

    Music or rather Musical instruments are sinful, not a crime unless ruled out as such by the government of that land. What constitutes as a crime is what is stated the penal code of the residing nation.

    In Islam, scholarship is earned through years of studies and apprenticeship. There are imams, missionaries, islamic speakers and then there are scholars. While many islamic speakers are referred to as scholars by others but it is not the same. But no one gains authority to be partner with God. There is no room in Islam for polytheism.
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    "Music or rather Musical instruments are sinful"

    Thank you Zzz for your reply, but where does the above statement originate, is it verse from the Koran or Hadith or where?

    I can understand some music is sinful but all music and instruments, i struggle to believe that is the case..

    Also If the Scholars can not be partners to God how can they create laws and or rulings that in cases contradict principles in the Koran?

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by beleiver View Post
    "Music or rather Musical instruments are sinful"Thank you Zzz for your reply, but where does the above statement originate, is it verse from the Koran or Hadith or where? I can understand some music is sinful but all music and instruments, i struggle to believe that is the case..Also If the Scholars can not be partners to God how can they create laws and or rulings that in cases contradict principles in the Koran?
    Are you Zaidi shia........?
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by beleiver View Post
    Also If the Scholars can not be partners to God how can they create laws and or rulings that in cases contradict principles in the Koran?
    The scholars would never suggest something that is contrary to the Qur'an or Sunnah. The scholars have a very high status in Islam, and they have studied Islamic jurisprudence very well, which gives them the ability to give rulings with evidence from the Qur'an or Sunnah; that is, they would never give a ruling when the Qur'an or Sunnah suggests otherwise. Have you got any examples of this?

    Also, Allah does not have and will never have or need a partner or associate. The Qur'an forbids taking multiple Gods or turning to others instead of him.
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ قَوْلًا مِّمَّن دَعَا إِلَى اللَّـهِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا وَقَالَ إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
    ~ And who is better in speech than someone who calls to God, and acts with integrity, and says, “I am of those who submit”?

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by beleiver View Post
    "Music or rather Musical instruments are sinful"

    Thank you Zzz for your reply, but where does the above statement originate, is it verse from the Koran or Hadith or where?

    I can understand some music is sinful but all music and instruments, i struggle to believe that is the case..
    There are plenty of threads open here on this topic that you can explore. Just a quick summary is this:

    Quran:

    Allaah says in Soorat Luqmaan (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

    The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40).

    Al-Hasan al-Basri (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this aayah was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451).

    Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The interpretation of the Sahaabah and Taabi’in, that ‘idle talk’ refers to singing, is sufficient.


    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “[Allaah said to Iblees:] And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice…” [al-Israa’ 17:64]

    It was narrated that Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice” – his voice [the voice of Iblees/Shaytaan] is singing and falsehood.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Do you then wonder at this recitation (the Qur’aan)?

    And you laugh at it and weep not,

    Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”

    [al-Najm 53:59-61]

    ‘Ikrimah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that al-sumood [verbal noun from saamidoon, translated here as “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”] means “singing”, in the dialect of Himyar; it might be said “Ismidi lanaa” [‘sing for us’ – from the same root as saamidoon/sumood] meaning “ghaniy” [sing]. And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): When they [the kuffaar] heard the Qur’aan, they would sing, then this aayah was revealed.

    Hadith:

    The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

    “Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

    This hadeeth indicates in two ways that musical instruments and enjoyment of listening to music are haraam. The first is the fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
    ”At the end of time, there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk (for men), the drinking of Khamr (intoxicant) and the use of musical instruments as lawful. Allah will make the earth sink with them” [Bukhari]

    you can read more on this here: https://islamqa.info/en/5000

    how is music considered speech of shaytan?

    check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONbvC8vfKTQ

    This is a vast topic as there many things covered under it. Such as that nasheed are allowed while singing with musical instruments is not. And the daff/duff (one sided drum) is allowed where as musical instruments are not. But if you want to go into more technical stuff then that daff too was allowed by women only during weddings times or during war time and not for these recreational playtime and amusements. Like I said, it's a vast topic with varied opinions.

    For laymen, it's sufficient to say music is not allowed. For those interested in in-depth reading, there's plenty out there, including secular studies showing how music influences the brain and changes it.

    Also If the Scholars can not be partners to God how can they create laws and or rulings that in cases contradict principles in the Koran?
    The shia believe that scholars are infallible and equal to God, but the Sunni Islam does not teach that. The scholars are inheirtors of the prophets since prophets leave nothing behind but knowledge. Islamic law and rulings are dervived from three things, the Quran, hadith/sunnah, and rulings for the previous generation of scholars.

    For example, Prophet (peace be upon him) said: ”Allah has forbidden Khamr, gambling, Kubah (drums), and every intoxicant.”

    So we know khamr (alcohol) is forbidden. What we also know from this is that every intoxicant is forbidden as well. As such, if there is medicine that has ingredients that lead to intoxication then scholars will rule that medicine as haram. This ruling would be dervived from the hadith stated above and any other similar evidence found in the Quran/sunnah and the rulings prevous islamic jurists issued.
    1 | Likes 99sobi liked this post

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)


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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    Interesting reader comment:

    Amjad: Sheikh Qaradawi believes shaking hands with non mahram is permissible if there is no desire. Please do not blindly follow one sheikh. Seek further knowledge on all subject matters. May Allah swt guide us to the right path and strengthen our imaan.
    1 | Likes OmAbdullah liked this post

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zzz_ View Post
    Interesting reader comment:Amjad: Sheikh Qaradawi believes shaking hands with non mahram is permissible if there is no desire. Please do not blindly follow one sheikh. Seek further knowledge on all subject matters. May Allah swt guide us to the right path and strengthen our imaan.
    I don't follow any scholar of this age. It's just his views concerning this topic I shared.
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Wa Alaikum Asalaam,

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us my brother. My own thoughts on what you have written in your post is that "are these rulings" really harsh? or is the reality that they are against our own desires? Most of the things you have mentioned are of the worldly things which not only distract from the Hereafter but are harmful and have corrupting and negative influences on our hearts and souls.

    Surely there is enough distraction and corrupting influences in the world already and these worldly desires you posted about are just adding to that. Not only that but surely we have already lost focus, or losing focus on the bigger picture in that we can die at any second which there is no difference of opinion on, and so we only have little time - some of us more than others. Therefore is indulging in our worldly desires really going to help us in this world and the next? Should we not be shunning anything that pulls us towards having love for the world and instead striving to go towards that which increases our desire for the Hereafter and to be with Allah?

    Let me comment further on the points you made:

    1. So you already acknowledge the utter filth that is apparent in todays mainstream music industry. An industry that is totally satanic and full of occultic symbolism, subliminal messaging, appealing to the lowly carnal desires, unspeakable negative and evil influences on our hearts and souls. Can anything good really be totally taken over by so much evil? Do your research on the industry and you will realise what it is really about and how the celebrities, actor/singers have sold their souls for fame. This is an industry that has created the worst people on Earth to be "idols" for the youth and mankind. Shaythan uses music as his weapon and believe me it is an effective one espeially to "distract" and corrupt the hearts and minds of the youth.

    You mention there is "some" good music. So your stance on this is to "fight" for the very little good music - if any - there is out there when the vast majority is totally controlled by evil? Where is the logic in that? Anyone who looks at the evidence for prohibition for music will realise that there is far greater evidence for prohibition than there is against. To be honest with you there is not much difference of opinion against prohibition of music at all except on certain occassions and using limited instruments. So my brother you are holding onto nothing with any substance here.

    2. With regards to interaction with the opposite sex then the example you gave with comparing a same gender friendship to an opposite gender friendship is absurd. You even mentioned incest? Why would you give such an extreme example which is totally irrevelant to what we are discussing? Yes there are isolated instances and cases where this may happen but of course in the vast majority of cases things like that do not happen. If they do then surely there is a corruption in the heart of the person who is inclined in such a way.

    What does happen in the vast majority of cases is that friendships between opposite genders gradually or instantly turn into much more than just friendships. Me, you and most of the people reading this have seen it and exprienced it around us but you are acting as though you have lived a sheltered existance that these things only happen in fairy tales?

    My brother the stance of having limited interactions with the opposite gender particularly when it comes to private interactions is not just an "isolated" opinion of a few scholars but it is a well known and established stance that is in the Qur'an and authentic Hadith and strongly supported by the past 1400 years of classical and scholarship. To be honest with you such prohibitions are far more important now than they have ever been because of the increasingly promiscuis and sexualised society we live in.

    That is not to say that we should shut ourselves away and never even look at the opposte gender let alone interact with them. But the point is that we limit our ineractions with them to what is necessery. There is no reason to expand further on why. Anyone with a little common sense knows that it only takes one conversation whethr at work, college, University, on the streets, shopping mall etc to spark or ignite passions and then things progress from there. There are tonnes of examples of these things happening all around us all the time, so there is absolutely no denying this fact at all and the dangers of freely mixing with the opposite gender. We were created as human beings to generally be attracted to the opposite gender, so do you think the creator is not the best one to give us advice on interaction between the genders?

    3. You mean to say "cosmetic procedures". I do not know of any majority opinion that states that if you have burns, or significant injury which changes the appearance of a bodily part that it cannot be corrected with corrective cosmetic surgery. However you say breast implants for flat chested women and nose jobs for people with large noses? So when did a flat chest or large nose become a deficiency? I find your logic very strange and very much influenced by the so called "societal norms" being pushed by those who deem what women and men should look like - not how they were created by Allah.

    So all of a sudden according to you the differences in the way Allah created us all with different sized noses, ears, chest, skin colour and shade etc includes many deficiencies? My brother desist from such harmful thinking lest you claim you know what is better than Allah. Allah has created us in the normal human form. It is "us" who have decided what is more beautiful and what is considered "deficient". This is pure arrogance and in fact this type of thinking is what causes a lot of suicides in our societies when certain people especially the youth are come under immense pressure to "physically conform", but feel like they cannot then many end up taking their lives or living in severe depression and feeling low confidence and self esteem.

    What may become deficient can happen through a natural birth defect, injury, illness etc but a person born with differences in physical form and appearance is absolutely not deficient! These people feel this way beause of the "perfect photoshopped human image" being pushed all over the media. There is no doubt that this is utter deception. In fact when Allah talks about this world being a deception then believe me it is more so than we think. We only have to look around us and research into what is going on to realise that we are living a lie.

    5 and 6. If you want to mark an anniversary or a birthday with some contemplation on what has passed and make a Dua for a blessed, happy and successful year ahead etc then there is nothing wrong with this. Anything more than that will be considerred an innovation. This has nothing to do with being restrictive just for the sake of it. Many of us fail to understand the wisdom behind many things so we just pull a tantrum and call it archaic and restrictive. But we should try to understand the wisdom behind many of the things we become rebellious about. In this particular case it is so that we do not become like those who follow and worship other than Allah in their customs and celebrations. Surely you have heard of " You are what you eat and you are who your friends are". Then what we eat and who we follow and hang around with will surely shape who we are. If not now then eventually. What we have to understand is that many of the wisdoms behind Islamic principles and teachings is taking preventative measures - or "prevention is better than cure".

    So in this case we are dissallowd to follow in the customs and practices of the disbelievers - much of which have pagan roots if you really look into it such as birthdays, anniverseries, New Year, Halloween etc. This is in order to preserve the pure and unadulterated way of life (deen) that Islam has given us. If we had a religion that was "anything goes" then surely we would have ended up like the modern day Christians whose practices and beliefs are nothing like the practices and beliefs of early Christians. This is because it has become a "anything goes" religion. But those who make excuses say it is because they are being "progressive". I do not see anything progressive about people losing all trust and faith in the Church. Actually what attracts many Christians to Islam is the "unadulterated" preservation of Islamic beliefs and practies. But if we want to live a "anything goes" kind of life then that is upto us. But surely we should be living lives where we put almighty Allah first. That is the real test of this life and the true success in this world and the next!

    7. It depends on the type and nature of the game but surely nowadays video games are very different from the early days of Atari. Amiga and Commodore 64. Video games have become so advanced that they are essentially like movies that we can control. Not only that but many of them are very explicit, voilent and can even take months to complete which involve spending significant amounts of time. So there is no doubt that video games like movies and mainstream music can be a terribley corrupting influence on society particularly the youth. Not only that but it can take significant amounts of our most valuable asset - time.

    As if there was not enough evil influences on our children but video games can present a huge danger to their psychological development. In fact there was a study done that looked at a class of children, where half of them played a "soft" game and the other half played a voilent game. There were some tests carried out on the children and it was found that in general the half that played the voilent games became much more desensitised than the other half that played soft games. So parents need to be very careful as to the nature and type of games their children are playing as well as restricting the amount of time they spend on such games as these games can become very addictive and will absolutely distract us from the "true reality, purpose and focus of our lives" to that of a virtual fantasy reality that gaming offers.

    8. This is very similar to my response to music but of course as well as Music, gaming, Television and the media - it goes without saying that the movie industry whether hollywood, bollywood, lollywood or nollywood is totally satanic. This is very apparent with the type of sybomlism and themes contained in the movies as well as the utter filth, promiscuity, voilence and horror that movies contain. It only takes a little research to establish what these industries are really about and the extent to which celebrities, actors, musicians sell their soul for fame. It also does not take much thought to establish that these movies have a very corrupting influence on our hearts and souls just like the gaming, music, Television and the media industry. Much of this negative corrupting influence is subliminal. This is no secret or "conspiracy" for it is something well known and if we really opened our eyes we would be able to see these evil industries for what they really are.

    So if we want to keep putting corrupting, negative, toxic influences into our hearts then we are only damaging ourselves. For surely there is enough toxicity thrown at us by pollution and the food, water and medicine we consume but on top of that we are mentally and physically corrupting ourselves further by constantly feeding our minds and hearts filth, rather than trying to clean and purify our hearts with the remembrance and glorification of Allah and spending our time learning and doing good and putting him "first" in all of our affairs! This is true success for surely our enemy shaythan wants to distract us until we are destroyed!

    9. My brother you only have to look at how the Jesuit Catholics corrupted Christianity with putting animate imagery all over the Churches to realise what a terribly damaging influence animate imagery has had on corrupting religions to the point that animate pictures and idols had become a source of worship. This is not only limited to Catholicism, Hinduism and many other religions particularly those of pagan origin. Even many people from our own faith have pictures and images of "peers" (saints) and Awliyah (alleged friends of Allah) up in their houses or they create dargah's (shrines) in which they put flowers and make offerings. Eventually these places become places where people come from afar to make Dua to them. Notice how it starts from an image to remember the saint but then gradually progresses to the point where these people become essentially worshipped.

    That is not to say that images on clothing etc may become a source of worship but it is the principle. In Islam we take great care to avoid any type of idolatary practices or imagery which can be deemed as shirk. This is because if we looked throughout history and the stories that Allah has given us then most of the nations of the past that we destroyed were those who worshipped other than Allah by creating images of idols and made them a source of worship. Therefore we keep away from all animate imagery, do not create images nor put them up in our homes. Lest shaythan decieves us for he is the biggest deciever of all!

    My brother if there is evidence in our deen to prohibit us from something that is harmful to us, potentially harmful to us or at least will harm us more than doing us any good then why do we have to rebel in accordance with our desires? Have we studied the deen to the depth of classical scholars and those who have inherited their knowledge today? Or is saying that my father studied in "Al Azhar" really enough to make us understand this deen and many of the wisdoms behind many of its teachings and principles? Why do we have to become so rebellious? What will we achieve by furthering that which will potentially harm us and those around us?

    You say Scholars are making things unbearable for us by prohibiting this and that, but my brother if you do not like the stance and approach of a particular scholar then find one whose stance and approach appeals to you. There is not a lack of scholars out there. You are making it out like the vast majority of scholars are like that which is totally false and even misleading. There are many scholars out there who are trying their best. They also have immense pressure on them especially in the present climate. They also have to be very careful what they say and the way in which they say it. However many of them are only trying their best to forward the knowledge from scholars of the past and also expanding on their works and applying it to present times. Just because you see todays society as "progressive" and more advanced than before it does not mean we should welcome all of the potentially evil, corrupting influence upon ourselves. We already have enough of that. We need more purity and goodness in our lives.

    If we want freedom then we have it. By all means we have free choice to live how we want. But remember on that day when we are all gathered together then it will be those of us who tried to put Allah first in our lives that will be truly successful. Then we will look back and think "what did I achieve from following my desires in the world? What did I achieve from being rebellious on that which was only for my benefit to avoid or limit." So my brother know that there is no compulsion on us for the way we live our lives but we have choices to make and diffeent paths to take but if we act treacherously in this world then there can only be a wretched end for us!

    May Allah enable us to focus on the bigger picture and what is really important and that which will help and benefit us to get closer to him and away from that which will harm us in this world and the next. Ameen
    Ok, this is one of the best responses on this thread thus far. I do agree with most of your classification of these problems. However, I do not agree with your method of resolve. For example, you say most music is bad so ban it all together, id say ban the thing that makes this music haram. Ofc your method is easier so I can see the logic behind, but easier is not condition to consider when putting a ruling on certain things … more on why later.

    Im not going to address all the points you mentioned because I feel like im getting on peoples nerves in this thread (however if you are interested in continuing this with me, we can talk about it through messaging …)(this is likely the last post I make on this thread). I will however address the last few paragraphs of your post.

    No brother, this was not out of rebelliousness. This is out of fear. Fear for the people who might be in the same situation that I was in when I was young. As I mentioned before I passed through tough times that made me seek God’s refuge and help. I made an effort to learn about how to do that. The first thing I was subjected to were videos about some of the points I mentioned and how bad they were … for example, about how sick the hearts of people who liked listening to music were. I believe Search put it in the best way …

    Quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    we feel personally attacked as we feel what we're doing already is not good enough.
    But that wasn’t the worst part. The worst part is when I actually believed that. I started hating myself for liking these things and habits. Even though I tried to stop, I still liked those things. I even did some pretty horrible things to myself in effort to stop but to no avail. Even though I tried to become a better muslim by praying extra prayers at night and started reading some Quran every night. I started overburdening myself and was afraid of every minut thing I did (id have to search whether it is haram or not). But the thing that tipped me off was that I was still facing these calamities and I felt like it was all my fault and all because of me (what was worse is that these problems affected both my parents and family in general … and to have the feeling that you are the cause of hardship for people you care about dearly can suck pretty hard). I honestly don’t know what kept my sanity and my religion other than the grace of Allah (I don’t want to seem like im exaggerating here … It sounds little worse than it was, but still … was bad). Mind you I was 17 then. Times passed, and I lost a great ordeal because of what I was going through (I trust Allah That it is for the better). But I will never forget the empty promises of the people I heard and trusted. I now knew that ibada is not meant to make things get better, its meant to make the person stronger and more patient … but I learned it the hard way. This is where my resentment and skepticism of these rules stem from. Hope that makes the picture more clear for you and inform all the other readers why it’s important to be sure of the information you obtain from the internet or anybody is 100% true … not to follow blindly without question then experience the same thing that happened to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zzz_ View Post
    There are plenty of threads open here on this topic that you can explore. Just a quick summary is this:

    Quran:

    Allaah says in Soorat Luqmaan (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6]

    The scholar of the ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: this means singing. Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this means playing the drum (tabl). (Tafseer al-Tabari, 21/40).

    Al-Hasan al-Basri (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: this aayah was revealed concerning singing and musical instruments (lit. woodwind instruments). (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 3/451).

    Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The interpretation of the Sahaabah and Taabi’in, that ‘idle talk’ refers to singing, is sufficient.


    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “[Allaah said to Iblees:] And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice…” [al-Israa’ 17:64]

    It was narrated that Mujaahid (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice” – his voice [the voice of Iblees/Shaytaan] is singing and falsehood.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Do you then wonder at this recitation (the Qur’aan)?

    And you laugh at it and weep not,

    Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”

    [al-Najm 53:59-61]

    ‘Ikrimah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that al-sumood [verbal noun from saamidoon, translated here as “Wasting your (precious) lifetime in pastime and amusements (singing)”] means “singing”, in the dialect of Himyar; it might be said “Ismidi lanaa” [‘sing for us’ – from the same root as saamidoon/sumood] meaning “ghaniy” [sing]. And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him): When they [the kuffaar] heard the Qur’aan, they would sing, then this aayah was revealed.

    Hadith:

    The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

    “Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

    This hadeeth indicates in two ways that musical instruments and enjoyment of listening to music are haraam. The first is the fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
    ”At the end of time, there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk (for men), the drinking of Khamr (intoxicant) and the use of musical instruments as lawful. Allah will make the earth sink with them” [Bukhari]

    you can read more on this here: https://islamqa.info/en/5000

    how is music considered speech of shaytan?

    check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONbvC8vfKTQ

    This is a vast topic as there many things covered under it. Such as that nasheed are allowed while singing with musical instruments is not. And the daff/duff (one sided drum) is allowed where as musical instruments are not. But if you want to go into more technical stuff then that daff too was allowed by women only during weddings times or during war time and not for these recreational playtime and amusements. Like I said, it's a vast topic with varied opinions.

    For laymen, it's sufficient to say music is not allowed. For those interested in in-depth reading, there's plenty out there, including secular studies showing how music influences the brain and changes it.



    The shia believe that scholars are infallible and equal to God, but the Sunni Islam does not teach that. The scholars are inheirtors of the prophets since prophets leave nothing behind but knowledge. Islamic law and rulings are dervived from three things, the Quran, hadith/sunnah, and rulings for the previous generation of scholars.

    For example, Prophet (peace be upon him) said: ”Allah has forbidden Khamr, gambling, Kubah (drums), and every intoxicant.”

    So we know khamr (alcohol) is forbidden. What we also know from this is that every intoxicant is forbidden as well. As such, if there is medicine that has ingredients that lead to intoxication then scholars will rule that medicine as haram. This ruling would be dervived from the hadith stated above and any other similar evidence found in the Quran/sunnah and the rulings prevous islamic jurists issued.
    Im not sure if you actually did look at the other side of the argument or bothered to give it a chance since I even provided you with a link. Anyways here is the proof that goes against that prohibition.

    Narrates ‘A’ishah (rta): The Messenger (sws) of God came to my residence while two female singers were singing the songs of Bu‘ath.1 The Holy Prophet (sws) lay down and turned his face to the other side. Meanwhile Abu Bakr (rta) entered and [seeing the singers] rebuked me thus: ‘Satanic musical instruments in the presence of the Holy Prophet (sws)?’ On hearing this God’s Messenger (sws) turned towards him and said: ‘Let them [sing and rejoice]’. When Abu Bakr was engaged in some other business, I signalled to the girls [to go out] and they left. It was on the ‘Id day.

    Umm-i-Salamah narrates: A slave girl belonging to Hassan Ibn Thabit (rta) came to us on ‘Id al Fitr. Her hair was unkempt and she carried a tambourine and was singing [some song]. Umm-i-Salamah rebuked her. But the Holy Prophet (sws) said to her: ‘Ummi-i-Salamah, let her [sing and rejoice]. Certainly every nation has an ‘Id and this day is our ‘Id’.

    Narrates Ibn ‘Abbas: ‘A’ishah (rta) arranged the marriage of a close Ansari girl. The Holy Prophet (sws) also came to attend the ceremony. He inquired from the people: ‘Have you sent forth the bride?’ ‘Yes’, they replied. ‘Did you send any singer with her?’ He asked. ‘A’ishah (rta) replied in the negative. The Holy Prophet (sws) then remarked: ‘The Ansar cherish singing. It would be better that you sent along with her a singer who would sing’

    ‘A’ishah (rta) reports: An Ansari girl lived under my guardianship and I arranged her marriage. The Holy Prophet (sws) came to my house on the day she was married and did not hear any songs or any other joyful activities. [Observing this] he asked of me: ‘Did you people sing to her or not?’ ‘This is the tribe of the Ansar who like singing,’ he added.

    Narrates Anas Ibn Malik: [Having entered the city], the Holy Prophet (sws) passed through a certain part of the town. Suddenly some slave girls appeared singing on the Daff the following ditty: ‘We are the slave girls of Bani Najjar. 7 How lucky! This day the Holy Prophet (sws) has come to be our neighbor’. At this the Holy Prophet (sws) remarked: ‘God knows that I love you people

    Narrates Salama Ibn Al-Akwa‘: ‘We set off for Khaybar in the company of the Holy Prophet (sws) at night. A man from the group said to ‘Amir: ‘O ‘Amir, would not you let us hear your poetry?’ ‘Amir who was a Hida poet got down and started reciting for the people [the following verses]: ‘O God, were not it for your guidance, we could not have been able to offer the Salah and pay the Zakah. So please forgive our sins that [we have committed] and the ones we may commit in future. We are ready to offer our lives for your cause. Grant us perseverance when faced [with the enemy] and pour down your mercy upon us. [We are the people] who refuse to surrender when the enemy challenges us to fight. And [we leave them] to cry for help against us’.
    The Holy Prophet asked: ‘Who is that signer?’ They replied: ‘‘Amir bin Al-Akwa‘’. ‘God bless him’, prayed the Holy Prophet (sws)

    Narrates Rabi‘, daughter of Mu‘wwadh: On the occasion of my transfer to my husband’s home after marriage, the Holy Prophet (sws) came to visit us and sat down on my bed just as you [the next narrator] are sitting before me now. Some slave girls were beating the Daff and singing in lamentation of their forefathers who had been killed during the battle of Badr. Then one of the girls sang: ‘Among us is the Prophet (sws) who knows even what will happen in coming days’. At this, the Holy Prophet (sws) said: ‘Do not say this, but go on singing.

    Narrates ‘A’ishah (rta): Once on an ‘Id day the Abyssinian slaves came and started dancing in the mosque. The Holy Prophet (sws) called me. I placed my head on the Holy Prophet’s shoulder and started watching their performance. [The Holy Prophet did not stop me] until I myself got tired of watching them and turned away.

    Im not sure if all of these hadiths are Saheeh, but i sure half of them are.
    This is just to give you a perspective of how valid the other side of the argument is. And Allah knows best.
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post


    Im not sure if you actually did look at the other side of the argument or bothered to give it a chance since I even provided you with a link. Anyways here is the proof that goes against that prohibition.

    Im not sure if all of these hadiths are Saheeh, but i sure half of them are.
    This is just to give you a perspective of how valid the other side of the argument is. And Allah knows best.
    Slapping a few hadiths together when you are not even sure if they are sahih is not a very convincing way to make an argument, especially one related to the religion. I shared is the evidence given by the scholars who rule out music as impermissible. The hadith you shared show the girls singing and sending a singer to the wedding, not the whole band with their musical instruments. As i stated above, scholars approved of singing (nasheeds) but not musical instruments. Its like milk is halal but if i pour some alcohol in it, is it still halal?

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zzz_ View Post
    Slapping a few hadiths together when you are not even sure if they are sahih is not a very convincing way to make an argument, especially one related to the religion. I shared is the evidence given by the scholars who rule out music as impermissible. The hadith you shared show the girls singing and sending a singer to the wedding, not the whole band with their musical instruments. As i stated above, scholars approved of singing (nasheeds) but not musical instruments. Its like milk is halal but if i pour some alcohol in it, is it still halal?
    And you also have to consider when that hadith was actually spoken. Muhammad al-Ghazzali in his book, Within the boundaries of Islam, says: "It is not important to only know what he said, but how, when, and to whom. All these factors assist us tremendously in understanding the Sunnah correctly....It is also a mistake to be ignorant of the circumstances in which the hadith was recalled as this context throws tremendous light upon its intent."

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd View Post
    And you also have to consider when that hadith was actually spoken. Muhammad al-Ghazzali in his book, Within the boundaries of Islam, says: "It is not important to only know what he said, but how, when, and to whom. All these factors assist us tremendously in understanding the Sunnah correctly....It is also a mistake to be ignorant of the circumstances in which the hadith was recalled as this context throws tremendous light upon its intent."
    Yes, the historical timeline and context matters as well.
    Last edited by Zzz_; 02-04-2018 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    I understand OP very well, I had exactly the same questions.. well, we are not angels after all! Human's life is much more difficult than life of other creatures on planet Earth in our reality! This should we know!!!!!!




    Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship
    Last edited by space; 02-04-2018 at 06:02 PM.
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Assalamu Alaykom Wa Rahmat Allah.

    Alright, so I wanted to make a post like this for quite a while. But before I start, let me just quickly tell why im posting this. When I was young I was trying to get to know my religion more and more and get closer to Allah because I was facing lots of problems in life and was suffering from depression (I also wasn’t the best muslim because I was sinning ☹ but I was still a practicing muslim). Anyways, when I started to learn more and more I realized that the type of islam that was being preached by current scholars is very difficult and harsh to follow. I tryed to accept it somehow but the more I tried, the more resentment I developed towards islam. I felt like the only thing scholars of islam had to offer was fear and the loss of our self-worth (thinking that this is the only way to humbleness and humility).
    A lot of the scholars today keep bombarding us with how everything we do is haram and how much you should fear Allah and no matter what you do, you will never be as good as those people at the time of the prophet because your inherently evil. This is the type of mentality that I was able to observe and deduce from these people. Its like no matter how much you try your still evil because you don’t practice all the things that the prophet used to do (As if they expect you to be like a prophet or better). This is what started to make me feel quite resentful towards our religion and Islam in general.
    Ok, so basically, what I wanted to talk about is how scholars had made islam so unbearable to me and a lot of other people as well. I wanted to dedicate this post to discuss some of the things that are considered as Shubuhat (doubtful matters) that made scholars label it as haram just because they wanted people to be on the safe side instead of saying the truth (that is that they are unsure but are bias against those things).

    1) Music: Though there are some really good arguments made against music, those arguments are still not 100% solid. The reason is that there are some really good evidences that contradict those evidence in favor of the prohibition. (http://www.shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm)
    I do admit that the majority of the songs of today promote promiscuity, violence, sex and drugs. But there is still good music that don’t have any of these things in them! And that is why I think putting a haram label on ALL MUSIC IN GENERAL is completely wrong and insane!

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: Time and time again. We have heard it! Stories about 2 friends falling into temptation and committing zina. But guess what, we also heard stories about 2 friends of the same sex commit acts of homosexuality or stories about incest as well. Are you going to make those 2 haram as well? Im not saying that all boys and girls should have bfs & gfs. But to go as far as saying that all interaction between the genders is forbidden unless in times extreme need is insane. They even regard mixed school/university/job as haram! How much more are these people going to take away from us? All im asking for is being moderate in the ruling of prohibition. A friendly conversation between the opposites should not be considered as haram.

    3) Cosmetics: Some scholars say that all cosmetics are considered haram except in the case of extreme skin burns or facial structure damage. Wrong! Braces should be allowed because they restore that natural form of the human body. Breast implants for flat chested women, double chin removal, nose jobs for people with crooked or large noses. All these can be considered as restoring the original form of the human body. But some scholars regard it as haram

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: They claim it’s a form of imitation of women. Are fang necklaces and dog tags adornments of women? How about we look into how earrings came about, then we will see who was imitating who! (PS im not saying this because I wanted to wear earrings, instead I used to want to wear an adornment of high sentimental value back then, but was discouraged because of claims like this)

    5) Wedding anniversaries: Some claim its imitation of kuffar, some say its innovation and making an eid for yourself. First off, an Eid is an occasion of celebration for a group of people and is of religious basis. A wedding anniversary is neither.

    6) Birthdays: same as the one before

    7) Playing video games: waste of time.

    8) Watching movies: haram because music and free mixing

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: drawings are haram! What about plan ones? Still haram because its imitation of kuffar.

    On and on the list goes. If you actually realize, most of these prohibitions can applied to almost every single thing a human does in his day to day life in this era. So how is the person supposed to live? This mentality that most religious muslims have is so hard to apply in this day and age. Everything has to be related to the worship of Allah somehow in their minds.
    Honestly this is but a fraction of what I wanted to say but unfortunately, I don’t have much time. Its extremely difficult to put my thoughts and way of thinking in an organized and neat way for you guys to understand my full picture of things so I apologize for that.

    Its important to note, I want you guys to understand that Im not saying this to insult or destructively criticize anyone. I just wanted to share my mind with people who might be willing to listen and give me constructive feedback whether they support my opinion or not. So feel free to add on to this or open up a new perspective for me to look through.
    Its not about hard or difficult
    Its about love. . Because when you love you found the hard thing for people easy and lovely for you

    In islam you began small but day by day and as much as you know allah more you want to worship him more
    Sometimes you let halal things just to get time to worship just because your love for allah
    But allah want us to do what he ask us to do for our benefit.
    For example :
    I know something is haram and try my best to don't do it ... but I full into it ... its better for me to ask allah's forgiveness ... than just saying something that show anger about what allah says and saying things .
    And if this rules are unbearable than how does a lot of people do it and they found it easy to do ??
    Its all about- love and how much your love will take you to be better in rank as much as you can
    Do the obligatory things I mean faridah as prayers fasting and remembering allah and try your best to pleased allah but if you cant ask allahs help but don't destroy your tawheed by saying things about allah and his rules
    If you can't bear them now your love to allah by trying to do what he says and to seek forgiveness when you sin and feeling guilty is better than destroying rules.
    You are muslim as long as you feel guilty about your sins when you do them.
    Because day by day you will stop them ... its like a muscles as long as you train it it will be more strong for the wights
    But if you stop move them you may found the easy things for the other people are hard for you and may cause you a muscle rupture.
    Not because of the wight but because of your muscles .
    What cause you to- wake up early and work hardly all the day?
    Is it the your hoping of reaching a good and easy life is the reason for that ?
    Can a person stop hard working and gain knowledge and easy life by staying at them places ?
    This life is just a test ... and if you want something you have to strive for whatever it is
    So allah deserve .
    And by allah if you try to worship allah as you can but by knowing that if you can't burden something now its not because of that thing, it is because of you and as long as you work on yourself to be good allah will help you and as long as you seek forgiveness when you sin allah will forgive you .
    May allah help you to understand that and to see the beauty of islam
    And you will enjoy letting things for the sake of allah and doing things for his sake.

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Assalamu Alaykom Wa Rahmat Allah.

    Alright, so I wanted to make a post like this for quite a while. But before I start, let me just quickly tell why im posting this. When I was young I was trying to get to know my religion more and more and get closer to Allah because I was facing lots of problems in life and was suffering from depression (I also wasn’t the best muslim because I was sinning ☹ but I was still a practicing muslim). Anyways, when I started to learn more and more I realized that the type of islam that was being preached by current scholars is very difficult and harsh to follow. I tryed to accept it somehow but the more I tried, the more resentment I developed towards islam. I felt like the only thing scholars of islam had to offer was fear and the loss of our self-worth (thinking that this is the only way to humbleness and humility).
    A lot of the scholars today keep bombarding us with how everything we do is haram and how much you should fear Allah and no matter what you do, you will never be as good as those people at the time of the prophet because your inherently evil. This is the type of mentality that I was able to observe and deduce from these people. Its like no matter how much you try your still evil because you don’t practice all the things that the prophet used to do (As if they expect you to be like a prophet or better). This is what started to make me feel quite resentful towards our religion and Islam in general.
    Ok, so basically, what I wanted to talk about is how scholars had made islam so unbearable to me and a lot of other people as well. I wanted to dedicate this post to discuss some of the things that are considered as Shubuhat (doubtful matters) that made scholars label it as haram just because they wanted people to be on the safe side instead of saying the truth (that is that they are unsure but are bias against those things).

    1) Music: Though there are some really good arguments made against music, those arguments are still not 100% solid. The reason is that there are some really good evidences that contradict those evidence in favor of the prohibition. (http://www.shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm)
    I do admit that the majority of the songs of today promote promiscuity, violence, sex and drugs. But there is still good music that don’t have any of these things in them! And that is why I think putting a haram label on ALL MUSIC IN GENERAL is completely wrong and insane!

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: Time and time again. We have heard it! Stories about 2 friends falling into temptation and committing zina. But guess what, we also heard stories about 2 friends of the same sex commit acts of homosexuality or stories about incest as well. Are you going to make those 2 haram as well? Im not saying that all boys and girls should have bfs & gfs. But to go as far as saying that all interaction between the genders is forbidden unless in times extreme need is insane. They even regard mixed school/university/job as haram! How much more are these people going to take away from us? All im asking for is being moderate in the ruling of prohibition. A friendly conversation between the opposites should not be considered as haram.

    3) Cosmetics: Some scholars say that all cosmetics are considered haram except in the case of extreme skin burns or facial structure damage. Wrong! Braces should be allowed because they restore that natural form of the human body. Breast implants for flat chested women, double chin removal, nose jobs for people with crooked or large noses. All these can be considered as restoring the original form of the human body. But some scholars regard it as haram

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: They claim it’s a form of imitation of women. Are fang necklaces and dog tags adornments of women? How about we look into how earrings came about, then we will see who was imitating who! (PS im not saying this because I wanted to wear earrings, instead I used to want to wear an adornment of high sentimental value back then, but was discouraged because of claims like this)

    5) Wedding anniversaries: Some claim its imitation of kuffar, some say its innovation and making an eid for yourself. First off, an Eid is an occasion of celebration for a group of people and is of religious basis. A wedding anniversary is neither.

    6) Birthdays: same as the one before

    7) Playing video games: waste of time.

    8) Watching movies: haram because music and free mixing

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: drawings are haram! What about plan ones? Still haram because its imitation of kuffar.

    On and on the list goes. If you actually realize, most of these prohibitions can applied to almost every single thing a human does in his day to day life in this era. So how is the person supposed to live? This mentality that most religious muslims have is so hard to apply in this day and age. Everything has to be related to the worship of Allah somehow in their minds.
    Honestly this is but a fraction of what I wanted to say but unfortunately, I don’t have much time. Its extremely difficult to put my thoughts and way of thinking in an organized and neat way for you guys to understand my full picture of things so I apologize for that.

    Its important to note, I want you guys to understand that Im not saying this to insult or destructively criticize anyone. I just wanted to share my mind with people who might be willing to listen and give me constructive feedback whether they support my opinion or not. So feel free to add on to this or open up a new perspective for me to look through.

    There is a hadeeth shareef about mushtabihaat (the doubtful things). In that hadeeth the Prophet salla Allaho alayhi wa sallam informed us that the halaal are clear (bayyan) and the haram are clear but in between them are the doubtful things/matters. Those who stop from the doubtful ones will be able to stop from the unlawful. And those who don't stop from the doubtful, are in danger of falling into the unlawful. This is a long hadeeth. I am giving the translation in short. May Allah forgive me but here I want to mention especially the last part of the hadeeth which says that there is a piece of flesh in the body. If that piece of flesh is healthy then the whole body is healthy, if that piece is ill then the whole body is ill. Know that that piece is the heart. (And Allah knows the best).


    My words will surely seem very harsh and bitter but it is true that fact is always very bitter. However, fact is a fact as truth is truth and these cannot be changed. In the very beginning, in a post from you in the thread "Doubts about Allah" I read some points about atheism which were posted by you and it was like I was stunned, then I read your post attentively and saw that you tactfully turned your words around to make it seem like you were speaking in favor of Islam.Then you wrote some points about the Holy Quraan that it is "unhuman and unnatural". Now it is obvious that these points were not posted by mistake. You had really tried to attack the Holy Quraan but when your attack was exposed, you answered in very humble and good way covering up your true self. Today your post has made it very manifest that your heart is diseased. The disease is so much extensive that you are trying to attack the faith of other Muslims. But you must note it that by the Grace of Allah, here are very learned and practicing Muslims who will teach you a good lesson insha-Allah.
    Last edited by OmAbdullah; 02-04-2018 at 10:03 PM.
    1 | Likes Misbah-Abd liked this post
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Asalaamulaykum

    SERIOUS ADVICE:

    You need to speak a scholar - You dont realise that half the things you have mentioned qualifies you on your self testimony as boarder line Kufr.
    1 | Likes OmAbdullah liked this post
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Dark Side Of The Moon

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