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Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)
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  1. #1
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    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please) (OP)


    Assalamu Alaykom Wa Rahmat Allah.

    Alright, so I wanted to make a post like this for quite a while. But before I start, let me just quickly tell why im posting this. When I was young I was trying to get to know my religion more and more and get closer to Allah because I was facing lots of problems in life and was suffering from depression (I also wasn’t the best muslim because I was sinning ☹ but I was still a practicing muslim). Anyways, when I started to learn more and more I realized that the type of islam that was being preached by current scholars is very difficult and harsh to follow. I tryed to accept it somehow but the more I tried, the more resentment I developed towards islam. I felt like the only thing scholars of islam had to offer was fear and the loss of our self-worth (thinking that this is the only way to humbleness and humility).
    A lot of the scholars today keep bombarding us with how everything we do is haram and how much you should fear Allah and no matter what you do, you will never be as good as those people at the time of the prophet because your inherently evil. This is the type of mentality that I was able to observe and deduce from these people. Its like no matter how much you try your still evil because you don’t practice all the things that the prophet used to do (As if they expect you to be like a prophet or better). This is what started to make me feel quite resentful towards our religion and Islam in general.
    Ok, so basically, what I wanted to talk about is how scholars had made islam so unbearable to me and a lot of other people as well. I wanted to dedicate this post to discuss some of the things that are considered as Shubuhat (doubtful matters) that made scholars label it as haram just because they wanted people to be on the safe side instead of saying the truth (that is that they are unsure but are bias against those things).

    1) Music: Though there are some really good arguments made against music, those arguments are still not 100% solid. The reason is that there are some really good evidences that contradict those evidence in favor of the prohibition. (http://www.shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm)
    I do admit that the majority of the songs of today promote promiscuity, violence, sex and drugs. But there is still good music that don’t have any of these things in them! And that is why I think putting a haram label on ALL MUSIC IN GENERAL is completely wrong and insane!

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: Time and time again. We have heard it! Stories about 2 friends falling into temptation and committing zina. But guess what, we also heard stories about 2 friends of the same sex commit acts of homosexuality or stories about incest as well. Are you going to make those 2 haram as well? Im not saying that all boys and girls should have bfs & gfs. But to go as far as saying that all interaction between the genders is forbidden unless in times extreme need is insane. They even regard mixed school/university/job as haram! How much more are these people going to take away from us? All im asking for is being moderate in the ruling of prohibition. A friendly conversation between the opposites should not be considered as haram.

    3) Cosmetics: Some scholars say that all cosmetics are considered haram except in the case of extreme skin burns or facial structure damage. Wrong! Braces should be allowed because they restore that natural form of the human body. Breast implants for flat chested women, double chin removal, nose jobs for people with crooked or large noses. All these can be considered as restoring the original form of the human body. But some scholars regard it as haram

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: They claim it’s a form of imitation of women. Are fang necklaces and dog tags adornments of women? How about we look into how earrings came about, then we will see who was imitating who! (PS im not saying this because I wanted to wear earrings, instead I used to want to wear an adornment of high sentimental value back then, but was discouraged because of claims like this)

    5) Wedding anniversaries: Some claim its imitation of kuffar, some say its innovation and making an eid for yourself. First off, an Eid is an occasion of celebration for a group of people and is of religious basis. A wedding anniversary is neither.

    6) Birthdays: same as the one before

    7) Playing video games: waste of time.

    8) Watching movies: haram because music and free mixing

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: drawings are haram! What about plan ones? Still haram because its imitation of kuffar.

    On and on the list goes. If you actually realize, most of these prohibitions can applied to almost every single thing a human does in his day to day life in this era. So how is the person supposed to live? This mentality that most religious muslims have is so hard to apply in this day and age. Everything has to be related to the worship of Allah somehow in their minds.
    Honestly this is but a fraction of what I wanted to say but unfortunately, I don’t have much time. Its extremely difficult to put my thoughts and way of thinking in an organized and neat way for you guys to understand my full picture of things so I apologize for that.

    Its important to note, I want you guys to understand that Im not saying this to insult or destructively criticize anyone. I just wanted to share my mind with people who might be willing to listen and give me constructive feedback whether they support my opinion or not. So feel free to add on to this or open up a new perspective for me to look through.
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  2. #41
    Misbah-Abd's Avatar
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supernova View Post
    Asalaamulaykum

    SERIOUS ADVICE:

    You need to speak a scholar - You dont realise that half the things you have mentioned qualifies you on your self testimony as boarder line Kufr.
    The problem is that he doesn't have the respect for scholars like he should and would rather have his whims and desires dictate what is halal and haram.

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    ChosenTCO's Avatar
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by OmAbdullah View Post
    My words will surely seem very harsh and bitter but it is true that fact is always very bitter. However, fact is a fact as truth is truth and these cannot be changed. In the very beginning, in a post from you in the thread "Doubts about Allah" I read some points about atheism which were posted by you and it was like I was stunned, then I read your post attentively and saw that you tactfully turned your words around to make it seem like you were speaking in favor of Islam.Then you wrote some points about the Holy Quraan that it is "unhuman and unnatural". Now it is obvious that these points were not posted by mistake. You had really tried to attack the Holy Quraan but when your attack was exposed, you answered in very humble and good way covering up your true self. Today your post has made it very manifest that your heart is diseased. The disease is so much extensive that you are trying to attack the faith of other Muslims. But you must note it that by the Grace of Allah, here are very learned and practicing Muslims who will teach you a good lesson insha-Allah.
    Ok, so if we are dragging stuff I said from another thread into this, I feel inclined to respond.

    First off, I do appreciate your honesty and would take the bitter truth anytime and day over a sweet lie. I find it amusing how you say that I was tactfully turning my words around to make it seem like I was in favor of islam … As if I wasn’t? Id have you know that I said those things because I actually AM in favor of islam way more than you think. As for the “unhuman and unnatural” comment I made about the Quran … Its seems like you are unwilling to change your incorrect initial perception of it despite that I have made it clear to you before. … Look at it like this. If the Quran was natural and humanly, then it can be 100% replicated. And if it was, then how in Gods name can it be a miracle? That’s why it has to be unnatural and unhuman for it to be majestic. You think I was criticizing the Quran? Go read what I said again. You will find that I was criticizing how people think about the Quran, not the Quran itself. Its not meant to be something beautiful, its meant to deliver a message to mankind, and we should ponder about this message and all the miracles that lies within through critical thinking, not blind belief. And how do you expect to learn these miracles without critical thinking? Questioning the Quran is what made me learn so much about it and got me convinced of it. That is why I also question the rulings of these scholars, to learn more about islam, and when I come across logic I don’t agree with, I don’t simply turn my back on my intellect and blindly believe. I stay after it until I get to the bottom of the point of disagreement and resolve it. But it seems that every time a person asks such questions or challenges these rulings, he is branded as someone who is diseased in the heart or even worse, as kafir.

    In the end, I realize that no matter how much a person tries to explain and justify, one cannot change how another person thinks of them. That’s why I rest my case with Allah. But Just remember, Allah stated in his Book that some assumptions are considered Ithm and what you are doing goes under the heading of assumptions (specifically when you said I was trying to “attack” the faith of other muslims which I clearly wasn’t trying to do).

    Quote Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd View Post
    The problem is that he doesn't have the respect for scholars like he should and would rather have his whims and desires dictate what is halal and haram.
    Please brother, just because we don’t agree on some things doesn’t give you the right to spread lies about me. You think I am asking these things because I care about my whims and desires? Please don’t pretend you have me figured out cause you don’t.
    2) I asked about interaction with the opposite gender because I have a female muslim friend who I started supporting after she lost one of her parents. I wouldn’t have been able to support her or even have known about her condition if I didn’t interact with her. How is this about my whims and desires?
    3) I know about cases where husbands leave their wives after the dramatical change in appearance (for the worse) due to pregnancy. And others who were never even married because of certain features here or there that made them look not as beautiful. How is this about my whims and desires?
    4) I wanted to wear a bracelet with an ayaa to remind me of sabr when I was going through harsh times. How is this about my whims and desires?
    1,5-8) all of these points are considered leisures to help us cope in this dunya.
    وَابْتَغِ فِيمَا آتَاكَ اللَّهُ الدَّارَ الْآخِرَةَ ۖ وَلَا تَنسَ نَصِيبَكَ مِنَ الدُّنْيَا

    But seek, through that which Allah has given you, the home of the Hereafter; and [yet], do not forget your share of the world. (Quran 28:77)
    9) Concerns the validity of prayer while wearing such T-shirts. How is this about my whims and desires?

    Lastly, with reference to your deconstructive criticism to my sincere questions:
    The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should not hurt his neighbor and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should serve his guest generously and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should speak what is good or keep silent." Sahih al-Bukhari 6136

    And Allah knows best.
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  5. #43
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)


    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Ok, so if we are dragging stuff I said from another thread into this, I feel inclined to respond.

    First off, I do appreciate your honesty and would take the bitter truth anytime and day over a sweet lie. I find it amusing how you say that I was tactfully turning my words around to make it seem like I was in favor of islam … As if I wasn’t? Id have you know that I said those things because I actually AM in favor of islam way more than you think. As for the “unhuman and unnatural” comment I made about the Quran … Its seems like you are unwilling to change your incorrect initial perception of it despite that I have made it clear to you before. … Look at it like this. If the Quran was natural and humanly, then it can be 100% replicated. And if it was, then how in Gods name can it be a miracle? That’s why it has to be unnatural and unhuman for it to be majestic. You think I was criticizing the Quran? Go read what I said again. You will find that I was criticizing how people think about the Quran, not the Quran itself. Its not meant to be something beautiful, its meant to deliver a message to mankind, and we should ponder about this message and all the miracles that lies within through critical thinking, not blind belief. And how do you expect to learn these miracles without critical thinking? Questioning the Quran is what made me learn so much about it and got me convinced of it. That is why I also question the rulings of these scholars, to learn more about islam, and when I come across logic I don’t agree with, I don’t simply turn my back on my intellect and blindly believe. I stay after it until I get to the bottom of the point of disagreement and resolve it. But it seems that every time a person asks such questions or challenges these rulings, he is branded as someone who is diseased in the heart or even worse, as kafir.

    In the end, I realize that no matter how much a person tries to explain and justify, one cannot change how another person thinks of them. That’s why I rest my case with Allah. But Just remember, Allah stated in his Book that some assumptions are considered Ithm and what you are doing goes under the heading of assumptions (specifically when you said I was trying to “attack” the faith of other muslims which I clearly wasn’t trying to do).



    Please brother, just because we don’t agree on some things doesn’t give you the right to spread lies about me. You think I am asking these things because I care about my whims and desires? Please don’t pretend you have me figured out cause you don’t.
    2) I asked about interaction with the opposite gender because I have a female muslim friend who I started supporting after she lost one of her parents. I wouldn’t have been able to support her or even have known about her condition if I didn’t interact with her. How is this about my whims and desires?
    3) I know about cases where husbands leave their wives after the dramatical change in appearance (for the worse) due to pregnancy. And others who were never even married because of certain features here or there that made them look not as beautiful. How is this about my whims and desires?
    4) I wanted to wear a bracelet with an ayaa to remind me of sabr when I was going through harsh times. How is this about my whims and desires?
    1,5-8) all of these points are considered leisures to help us cope in this dunya.
    وَابْتَغِ فِيمَا آتَاكَ اللَّهُ الدَّارَ الْآخِرَةَ ۖ وَلَا تَنسَ نَصِيبَكَ مِنَ الدُّنْيَا

    But seek, through that which Allah has given you, the home of the Hereafter; and [yet], do not forget your share of the world. (Quran 28:77)
    9) Concerns the validity of prayer while wearing such T-shirts. How is this about my whims and desires?

    Lastly, with reference to your deconstructive criticism to my sincere questions:
    The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should not hurt his neighbor and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should serve his guest generously and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should speak what is good or keep silent." Sahih al-Bukhari 6136

    And Allah knows best.
    #2 Why not you marry her?
    #3 It's the husband fault not the fatwa, btw do you know the story of Julaybib ?
    #4 Why not always recite surah that contain ayaa of sabr even when you're not in harsh condition? you'll always remember to sabr even without bracelets...
    1 | Likes OmAbdullah liked this post

  6. #44
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Islam isn't that complicated of a religion. Sometimes it is only just our diverse mindsets, cultures, politics etc.. which we like to stir up in the name of religion. Please let's try to just to maintain its simplicity. If you have complication, seek assistance from a scholar of Islam who can better guide you. And sometimes not EVERYTHING needs to be questioned. IF Allah has ruled it for us, then submit and obey. Just know that he is OUR LORD and he will NEVER disappoint us InshaAllah.(given we do good deed daily and seek forgiveness).

    And Allah knows best.

    Forgive me if this was a bit harsh, never meant to be.

    JZK thank you

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    عن أبي عبد الله النعـمان بن بشير رضي الله عـنهما قـال: سمعـت رسـول الله صلي الله عـليه وسلم يقول: (إن الحلال بين وإن الحـرام بين وبينهما أمور مشتبهات لا يعـلمهن كثير من الناس فمن اتقى الشبهات فـقـد استبرأ لديـنه وعـرضه ومن وقع في الشبهات وقـع في الحرام كـالراعي يـرعى حول الحمى يوشك أن يرتع فيه ألا وإن لكل ملك حمى ألا وإن حمى الله محارمه ألا وإن في الجـسد مضغة إذا صلحـت صلح الجسد كله وإذا فـسـدت فـسـد الجسـد كـلـه ألا وهي الـقـلب) هلاّ وضحتم لنا هذا الحديث بالتفصيل؟عن أبي عبد الله النعـمان بن بشير رضي الله عـنهما قـال: سمعـت رسـول الله صلي الله عـليه وسلم يقول: (إن الحلال بين وإن الحـرام بين وبينهما أمور مشتبهات لا يعـلمهن كثير من الناس فمن اتقى الشبهات فـقـد استبرأ لديـنه وعـرضه ومن وقع في الشبهات وقـع في الحرام كـالراعي يـرعى حول الحمى يوشك أن يرتع فيه ألا وإن لكل ملك حمى ألا وإن حمى الله محارمه ألا وإن في الجـسد مضغة إذا صلحـت صلح الجسد كله وإذا فـسـدت فـسـد الجسـد كـلـه ألا وهي الـقـلب) هلاّ وضحتم لنا هذا الحديث بالتفصيل؟



    It was narrated on the authority of Abu ‘Abdullah An-Nu‘uman bin Bashir (may Allah be pleased with them) who said, “I heard the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu a’laihi wa sallam) saying,

    “That which is lawful is clear, and that which is unlawful is clear and between the two of them are doubtful (or ambiguous) matters about which not many people are knowledgeable. Thus, he who avoids these doubtful matters certainly clears himself in regard to his religion and his honor. But he who falls into the doubtful matters falls into that which is unlawful, like the shepherd who pastures around a sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Verily, every king has a sanctuary, and Allah’s sanctuary is His prohibitions. In the body there is a piece of flesh which, if it is sound, all of the body is sound, and which, if it is diseased, all of the body is diseased. This part of the body is the heart.”
    ************************************************** **********************************************

    The above is the full hadeeth with its Arabic text and translation. As in my previous post I had given only short translation in my own words therefore I was in fear of the Anger of Allah. May Allah forgive me and all other Muslims, aameen.



    I reminded this hadeeth to advise all Muslims to keep check on their hearts and to make their hearts and minds clear from any doubts. Their (as well as my) faith must be very strong to say "Aamannaa wa sadaqnaa, sami'naa wa ata'naa, ghufraanaka Rabbanaa wa ilekal-Maseer". ("we believed and considered it true, we heard and obeyed, O our Lord forgive us and we are returning un to You").

    If a Muslim strongly believes that he/she is surely returning back to Allah for Judgment and reward or punishment, then he/she shall surely shake and shiver with the fear of standing in front of his/her Lord for Accounting. So such a one shall never criticize the Ruling of Islam because this system came down from Allah and was implemented by Allah's Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alayhi wa sallam.

    If you pick up the Holy Quraan for guidance then this Divine Book shall never deceive you but don't forget to follow it in accordance with
    Muhammad salla Allaho alayhi wa sallam.
    Bringing so many points of Islam and criticizing them is surely attack on the Islamic system. And ignorant Muslims who like to listen to music and want other unislamic methods will go further away from Islam. If you really try to seek guidance from the Holy Quraan then see the verse 6 of surah Luqmaan for the ruling on music:

    (31:6) There are some human beings5 who purchase an enchanting diversion6 in order to lead people away from the way of Allah without having any knowledge,7 who hold the call to the Way of Allah to ridicule.8 A humiliating chastisement awaits them.9


    Exp. notes


    5. That is, on the one hand, there is this mercy and guidance sent down by Allah, of which some people are taking full advantage, and on the other hand, there are also some unfortunate people living side by side with the fortunate ones, who are adopting this sort of attitude as against the revelations of Allah.

    6. The words lahv al-hadith in the text imply such a thing as may allure and absorb a listener completely and make him heedless of everything else around him. Lexically, there is nothing derogatory in these words, but in custom and usage they apply to evil and useless and vain things, such as gossip, nonsensical talk, joking and jesting, legends and tales, singing and merry making, etc.


    “Purchases” alluring tales may also mean that the person concerned adopts falsehood instead of the truth, turns away from the guidance and turns to those things which can neither benefit him in the world nor in the Hereafter. But this is the metaphorical meaning. The real meaning of the sentence is that a person should purchase an absurd and useless thing for his money, and this is supported by many traditions. Ibn Hisham has related on the authority of Ibn Ishaq that when the disbelievers of Makkah could not stop the message of the Prophet (peace be upon him) from spreading in spite of their best efforts, Nadr bin Harith said to the people of Quraish: “The way you are counteracting this man will avail you nothing. He has lived a lifetime among you. Until now he was the best of your men morally: he was the most truthful and the most trustworthy person among you. Now you say that he is a sorcerer and enchanter and a poet and a madman. Who will believe all this? Don’t the people know the way the sorcerers talk? Don’t they know the enchanters and the way they conduct their business? Are they unaware of poetry and of the states of madness? Which of these accusations sticks to Muhammad (peace be upon him) by exploiting which you would turn the people’s attention away from him? Look! I will tell you how to deal with him.” Then he left Makkah for Iraq and managed to get from there legends and tales about the kings of Iran and Rustam and Isfandyar and started to arrange tale telling parties to distract the people from the Quran and to absorb them in the tales. The same tradition has been cited by Vahidi in Asbab un Nazul on the authority of Kalbi and Muqatil. And according to Ibn Abbas, Nadr had bough singing girls also for the purpose. Whenever he heard that someone was coming under the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) influence, he would impose a singing girl on him with the instruction: “Feed him and entertain him with your songs so that he is absorbed in you and distracted from the other side.” This was the same device which the arch criminals of the nations have been employing in every age. They try to get the common people so absorbed in fun and sport and musical entertainments in the name of culture that they are left with no time and sense to attend to the serious problems of life, and in their heedlessness they do not even feel what destruction they are being driven to.


    The same commentary of lahv al-hadith has been reported from a large number of the companions and their immediate followers. Abdullah bin Masud was asked, “What does lahv al-hadith mean in this verse?” He said thrice emphatically: “By God! it means singing.” (Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Shaibah. Hakim, Baihaqi). Similar traditions have been reported from scholars like Abdullah bin Abbas, Jabir bin Abdullah, Mujahid, Ikrimah, Said bin Jubair, Hasan Basri, and Makhul. Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim and Tirmidhi have related on the authority of Abu Umamah Baheli that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “It is not lawful to buy and sell and trade in singing girls nor is it lawful to take their price.” In another tradition, the last sentence is to the effect: “It is unlawful to eat their price”. Yet another tradition from Abu Umamah is to the effect: To teach music to slave girls and to trade in them is not lawful and their price is forbidden. All these Ahadith also elucidate that the verse containing lahv al-hadith was sent down in this very connection. Qadi Abu Bakr Ibn alArabi has related in the Ahkam alQuran a Hadith from Abdullah bin Mubarak and Imam Malik on the authority of Anas, saying, that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “He who hears the song of a singing girl in a musical concert, will have molten lead poured into his ear on the Day of Judgment” (In this connection, one should also note that the culture of music in those days flourished almost entirely through the slave girls: Free women had not yet become “artists”. That is why the Prophet (peace be upon him) spoke about trading in slave girls, and described their wages and earnings as their price, and used the word qaynah for the singing girl, which is specifically used for a slave girl in Arabic).


    7. “Without knowledge” may be connected with “buys” and also “lead astray”. In the first case, it would mean: The ignorant foolish person buys this alluring thing and does not know that he is buying a ruinous thing at the cost of a highly valuable thing. On the one hand, there are the divine verses which are full of wisdom and guidance, which he can obtain without any cost, but he turns away from them. On the other hand, there are these absurd things, which are disastrous for his morals and he is expending his wealth to obtain them. In the second case, it would mean: He has come out to guide the people without any knowledge: he does not know what burden of sin he is taking on himself by trying to lead the people astray from Allah’s Way.


    8. That is, this person wants to make fun of the divine revelations by alluring and absorbing the people in legends and tales and music. He intends that the invitation of the Quran should be derided and ridiculed and laughed away. He plans to fight the religion of God with the strategy that as soon as Muhammad (peace be upon him) should come out to recite revelations of God to the people, there should be a charming, sweet-voiced damsel giving her performance in a musical concert. On the one hand, a glibtongued story teller telling tales and legends of Iran, on the other hand, the people should become so absorbed in these cultural activities that they may not be in a mood to hear anything about God and the morals and the Hereafter.


    9. This punishment will be in accordance with their crime. They want to debase and disgrace God’s religion, His revelations and His Messenger; God will take His vengeance on them by giving them a disgraceful torment.
    ************************************************** **********************************************


    If you all check my previous post in this thread in the light of only this one verse, its explanation and ruling, you will find my post correct and true.

    Last edited by OmAbdullah; 1 Week Ago at 09:21 PM.
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

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