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    ChosenTCO's Avatar
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    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

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    Assalamu Alaykom Wa Rahmat Allah.

    Alright, so I wanted to make a post like this for quite a while. But before I start, let me just quickly tell why im posting this. When I was young I was trying to get to know my religion more and more and get closer to Allah because I was facing lots of problems in life and was suffering from depression (I also wasn’t the best muslim because I was sinning ☹ but I was still a practicing muslim). Anyways, when I started to learn more and more I realized that the type of islam that was being preached by current scholars is very difficult and harsh to follow. I tryed to accept it somehow but the more I tried, the more resentment I developed towards islam. I felt like the only thing scholars of islam had to offer was fear and the loss of our self-worth (thinking that this is the only way to humbleness and humility).
    A lot of the scholars today keep bombarding us with how everything we do is haram and how much you should fear Allah and no matter what you do, you will never be as good as those people at the time of the prophet because your inherently evil. This is the type of mentality that I was able to observe and deduce from these people. Its like no matter how much you try your still evil because you don’t practice all the things that the prophet used to do (As if they expect you to be like a prophet or better). This is what started to make me feel quite resentful towards our religion and Islam in general.
    Ok, so basically, what I wanted to talk about is how scholars had made islam so unbearable to me and a lot of other people as well. I wanted to dedicate this post to discuss some of the things that are considered as Shubuhat (doubtful matters) that made scholars label it as haram just because they wanted people to be on the safe side instead of saying the truth (that is that they are unsure but are bias against those things).

    1) Music: Though there are some really good arguments made against music, those arguments are still not 100% solid. The reason is that there are some really good evidences that contradict those evidence in favor of the prohibition. (http://www.shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm)
    I do admit that the majority of the songs of today promote promiscuity, violence, sex and drugs. But there is still good music that don’t have any of these things in them! And that is why I think putting a haram label on ALL MUSIC IN GENERAL is completely wrong and insane!

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: Time and time again. We have heard it! Stories about 2 friends falling into temptation and committing zina. But guess what, we also heard stories about 2 friends of the same sex commit acts of homosexuality or stories about incest as well. Are you going to make those 2 haram as well? Im not saying that all boys and girls should have bfs & gfs. But to go as far as saying that all interaction between the genders is forbidden unless in times extreme need is insane. They even regard mixed school/university/job as haram! How much more are these people going to take away from us? All im asking for is being moderate in the ruling of prohibition. A friendly conversation between the opposites should not be considered as haram.

    3) Cosmetics: Some scholars say that all cosmetics are considered haram except in the case of extreme skin burns or facial structure damage. Wrong! Braces should be allowed because they restore that natural form of the human body. Breast implants for flat chested women, double chin removal, nose jobs for people with crooked or large noses. All these can be considered as restoring the original form of the human body. But some scholars regard it as haram

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: They claim it’s a form of imitation of women. Are fang necklaces and dog tags adornments of women? How about we look into how earrings came about, then we will see who was imitating who! (PS im not saying this because I wanted to wear earrings, instead I used to want to wear an adornment of high sentimental value back then, but was discouraged because of claims like this)

    5) Wedding anniversaries: Some claim its imitation of kuffar, some say its innovation and making an eid for yourself. First off, an Eid is an occasion of celebration for a group of people and is of religious basis. A wedding anniversary is neither.

    6) Birthdays: same as the one before

    7) Playing video games: waste of time.

    8) Watching movies: haram because music and free mixing

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: drawings are haram! What about plan ones? Still haram because its imitation of kuffar.

    On and on the list goes. If you actually realize, most of these prohibitions can applied to almost every single thing a human does in his day to day life in this era. So how is the person supposed to live? This mentality that most religious muslims have is so hard to apply in this day and age. Everything has to be related to the worship of Allah somehow in their minds.
    Honestly this is but a fraction of what I wanted to say but unfortunately, I don’t have much time. Its extremely difficult to put my thoughts and way of thinking in an organized and neat way for you guys to understand my full picture of things so I apologize for that.

    Its important to note, I want you guys to understand that Im not saying this to insult or destructively criticize anyone. I just wanted to share my mind with people who might be willing to listen and give me constructive feedback whether they support my opinion or not. So feel free to add on to this or open up a new perspective for me to look through.
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    Zafran's Avatar
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    salaam

    OK
    1 - difference opinion always has been on Music

    2 - Looking at the "me too" campaign" and Hollywood moguls caught in all sorts of sexual forbidden acts its safer to have a distance to the opposite sex. Only interactions of necessities should be allowed. However this issue is a lot more complex because of the "hook up culture" and hard to get married in modern societies. pornography which warps humans mind when it comes to the opposite gender clearly shows why the distance is advised by the scholars and early marriage.

    3 - people should be happy with what God has given them - the whole cosmetic industry is made on making people look ugly so they can make money out of them - its a superficial and capitalist mess - Women lose out the biggest here as they are pretty much forced to wear make up in every society.

    4 - Men cant do some things in Islam women cant do other things. Women cannot marry non Muslim men - giving up silk and Gold is nothing compared to that.

    5 - difference of opinion

    6 - difference of opinion (see mawlid)

    7,8,9 - I play Games and watch films - its better doing these things because boredom can lead to all sorts of terrible things.

    You seem to be caught up in fiqh issues rather then actually build the readership with God. Its all about God at the end of day. Giving up things for God are always good even if they hurt in the short term. Having a more internal examination of oneself can reveal wonders.

    PS - which scholars do you follow? - they seem to be very restrictive.
    Last edited by Zafran; 01-30-2018 at 09:37 PM.
    4 | Likes Search, air, OmAbdullah, cinnamonrolls1 liked this post
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    A lot of the scholars today keep bombarding us with how everything we do is haram


    Most of these is because of the environment in which we live or the culture in which a person is raised up. If a person associates himself with righteous people, or lives in a society of righteous people, or if a child is brought up according to Islamic values, then he won't face any problems in practicing properly and abstaining from all the sins. But when the environment is so engrossed in all these unIslamic things, it becomes difficult to abstain from them and it looks like a burden and like a restriction on one's freedom of indulging in sins.

    That is why it is very important for a Muslim to always be in the company of righteous people. If you can't find them at your place, then move to a better one. Migration to an Islamic place is one of the important aspects of Islam, which is largely neglected in these days.

    Allah says,

    Indeed, those whom the angels take [in death] while wronging themselves - [the angels] will say, "In what [condition] were you?" They will say, "We were oppressed in the land." The angels will say, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious [enough] for you to emigrate therein?" For those, their refuge is Hell - and evil it is as a destination.
    Except for the oppressed among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan nor are they directed to a way -
    For those it is expected that Allah will pardon them, and Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.
    [An-Nisa: 97-99]


    Narrated Sufyan b. Abu Zuhair :
    I heard Allah's Messenger saying, "Yemen will be conquered and some people will migrate (from Medina) and will urge their families, and those who will obey them to migrate (to Yemen) although Medina will be better for them; if they but knew. Sham will also be conquered and some people will migrate (from Medina) and will urge their families and those who will obey them, to migrate (to Sham) although Medina will be better for them; if they but knew. 'Iraq will be conquered and some people will migrate (from Medina) and will urge their families and those who will obey them to migrate (to 'Iraq) although Medina will be better for them; if they but knew." [Bukhari]


    Although this Hadith is regarding Madinah, it can apply to any Muslim populated city. People nowadays are preferring to migrate to far off places instead of living in a place where they can practice their religion properly and safeguard their Imaan.
    5 | Likes Search, Zzz_, Good brother, Zafran, OmAbdullah liked this post

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Yes, so the solution is to just give in to your whims and desires because you don't have enough iman to follow the Deen. As far as opinions, when it contradicts the Quran and Sunnah then take that opinion and fling it against the wall. Unbelievable that Muslims are starting to act like Christians and going to their prayer service once a week, leaving their righteousness there, and then do whatever they want the rest of the week. And Allah's refuge is sought...
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    Walekum Assalam Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu:

    I will not address all the points in your post, but I do want to address point number 2 as thoroughly as I am able.

    Even if I agree with you that some gender interactions with the opposite sex is not harmful, I cannot agree that the overall preventative measure in Islam is unnecessary or redundant. You seem to be only contemplating, for example, the worst-case scenario, which is fornication. While that is a great sin in Islam, there are some other bad situations that can occur, and let's demonstrate this with some scenarios for your perusal:

    1) You are chitchatting with a girl casually and you develop feelings for her. Your parents of course won't even contemplate marriage until you're older and mature. Now, you're stuck having feelings for this girl, but you cannot do anything about it. Does that sound like an appetizing scenario to you?

    But let's imagine yet another:
    2) This girl is of another faith, and she doesn't see anything wrong with chatting with you or hugging you or whatever. She seems to understand you, and now you think she would be a great person if she converted and married except all of this contemplation is born only of your imagination. She, however, only sees you as a friend because she long ago "friend-zoned" you and never considered you anything other than a guy in whom she can confide her feelings and deepest desires. So, now, you have a "friend" with whom you don't want a friendship and instead see a future which cannot happen because she's never contemplated any such thing with you in the first place! Is that something you want?

    Now let's imagine yet another:
    3) You just casually talk to a girl and have absolutely no feelings for her. She, however, draws hearts in her diaries with your name and imagines how wonderful a relationship with you would be because you're her secret crush, and she's having a tough time at home because her parents are divorcing and fighting almost all the time. You, however, are entirely clueless and hurt her feelings when you don't reciprocate; and she genuinely thought you talking to her meant someone in the world liked her. Now, she's having suicidal thoughts because she already hates her home, and here you are another person in her life who disappointed her. Is giving someone heartache a recipe that you concocted with your unknowing encouragement and interaction with her or one born from rules of Islam?

    The gendered interaction in Islam is not meant to restrict you but to free you from experiences that might prove burdensome. It is not easy to be rejected or reject, and both of those things are distinct possibilities with unfettered interaction with the opposite sex. You can in fact browse this board or even the wider Internet with just some such questions that people ask once they experience the truth of what I've just relayed to you. These things happen in school, universities, the workplace. The secretary falls in love with her married boss. The student falls in in love with another student. The male friend is upset that the female friend has a proposal. It is said: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

    And also, if you're heterosexual, please don't try to tell me that the only feelings you have for a "hot" girl is fraternal in nature because that is something not even worthy of a proper response. But most importantly, don't fool yourself into believing that your innermost intentions are completely pure; we're human beings, not angels. We have a nafs (ego) that is already drawn to lower/most base desires, and we have shaitaan (Satan) always eager to lead us astray.

    Read the story of Barsisa to which I'm linking you and contemplate on the fact that shaitaan never comes to any believer and immediately says to fornicate. Rather, shaitaan takes you in any wrong direction by degrees, and the gradual progression and escalation is Shaitaan's greatest trick against all humankind. Fornication is one result, yes, but another one is often heartache. Remember the heart is the house of Allah, and misusing it for self-deception purposes is the reason so many people cry from the fallout of premarital relationships or unexpected heartbreak.

    (And peace be upon you)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    Assalamu Alaykom Wa Rahmat Allah.

    Alright, so I wanted to make a post like this for quite a while. But before I start, let me just quickly tell why im posting this. When I was young I was trying to get to know my religion more and more and get closer to Allah because I was facing lots of problems in life and was suffering from depression (I also wasn’t the best muslim because I was sinning ☹ but I was still a practicing muslim). Anyways, when I started to learn more and more I realized that the type of islam that was being preached by current scholars is very difficult and harsh to follow. I tryed to accept it somehow but the more I tried, the more resentment I developed towards islam. I felt like the only thing scholars of islam had to offer was fear and the loss of our self-worth (thinking that this is the only way to humbleness and humility).
    A lot of the scholars today keep bombarding us with how everything we do is haram and how much you should fear Allah and no matter what you do, you will never be as good as those people at the time of the prophet because your inherently evil. This is the type of mentality that I was able to observe and deduce from these people. Its like no matter how much you try your still evil because you don’t practice all the things that the prophet used to do (As if they expect you to be like a prophet or better). This is what started to make me feel quite resentful towards our religion and Islam in general.
    Ok, so basically, what I wanted to talk about is how scholars had made islam so unbearable to me and a lot of other people as well. I wanted to dedicate this post to discuss some of the things that are considered as Shubuhat (doubtful matters) that made scholars label it as haram just because they wanted people to be on the safe side instead of saying the truth (that is that they are unsure but are bias against those things).

    1) Music: Though there are some really good arguments made against music, those arguments are still not 100% solid. The reason is that there are some really good evidences that contradict those evidence in favor of the prohibition. (http://www.shahbazcenter.org/is-music-haram.htm)
    I do admit that the majority of the songs of today promote promiscuity, violence, sex and drugs. But there is still good music that don’t have any of these things in them! And that is why I think putting a haram label on ALL MUSIC IN GENERAL is completely wrong and insane!

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: Time and time again. We have heard it! Stories about 2 friends falling into temptation and committing zina. But guess what, we also heard stories about 2 friends of the same sex commit acts of homosexuality or stories about incest as well. Are you going to make those 2 haram as well? Im not saying that all boys and girls should have bfs & gfs. But to go as far as saying that all interaction between the genders is forbidden unless in times extreme need is insane. They even regard mixed school/university/job as haram! How much more are these people going to take away from us? All im asking for is being moderate in the ruling of prohibition. A friendly conversation between the opposites should not be considered as haram.

    3) Cosmetics: Some scholars say that all cosmetics are considered haram except in the case of extreme skin burns or facial structure damage. Wrong! Braces should be allowed because they restore that natural form of the human body. Breast implants for flat chested women, double chin removal, nose jobs for people with crooked or large noses. All these can be considered as restoring the original form of the human body. But some scholars regard it as haram

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: They claim it’s a form of imitation of women. Are fang necklaces and dog tags adornments of women? How about we look into how earrings came about, then we will see who was imitating who! (PS im not saying this because I wanted to wear earrings, instead I used to want to wear an adornment of high sentimental value back then, but was discouraged because of claims like this)

    5) Wedding anniversaries: Some claim its imitation of kuffar, some say its innovation and making an eid for yourself. First off, an Eid is an occasion of celebration for a group of people and is of religious basis. A wedding anniversary is neither.

    6) Birthdays: same as the one before

    7) Playing video games: waste of time.

    8) Watching movies: haram because music and free mixing

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: drawings are haram! What about plan ones? Still haram because its imitation of kuffar.

    On and on the list goes. If you actually realize, most of these prohibitions can applied to almost every single thing a human does in his day to day life in this era. So how is the person supposed to live? This mentality that most religious muslims have is so hard to apply in this day and age. Everything has to be related to the worship of Allah somehow in their minds.
    Honestly this is but a fraction of what I wanted to say but unfortunately, I don’t have much time. Its extremely difficult to put my thoughts and way of thinking in an organized and neat way for you guys to understand my full picture of things so I apologize for that.

    Its important to note, I want you guys to understand that Im not saying this to insult or destructively criticize anyone. I just wanted to share my mind with people who might be willing to listen and give me constructive feedback whether they support my opinion or not. So feel free to add on to this or open up a new perspective for me to look through.
    Last edited by Search; 01-30-2018 at 11:39 PM.
    6 | Likes Mustafa16, ChosenTCO, Zafran, Aaqib, air, cinnamonrolls1 liked this post

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Sorry no time to read your post fully or the whole thread..

    Punishments in Islam SEEM TO APPEAR VERY HARSH ON THE OUTER but when we profoundly study the Prerequisites or requisites to carry out those punishments IT SHOWS THE GIST IS TO JUST TO FRIGHTEN AND WARN THE PUBLIC INTO INDULGING IN SINS, IMMORAL ACTIVITIES, ANARCHY , OPPRESSION etc

    For example from a Sahih hadith is that a Drunkard was brought to the Caliph Umar RA with the witness of the Authorities that they found drops of wine in his beard . When interrogated he refused his crime and was let off since there is no witnesses for the exact crime which is the actual drinking and what also drank was really a liquor (not a halal drink stored up in a bottle used for wine)

    In Islam we can never allege any one Guilty since just we have some references or being implied of a crime and that's a big crime that carries almost equal punishment of that Criminal. like done in the non islamic method where allegations are dumped on a person because its suspected.

    So this is the Law of Allah which is implemented after all its requisites of Banning all sort of triggers temptations that leads man to sins , for example Liquor is banned first 100% before bringing the hadd punishment and such punishments is implemented UNDER a Sharia court or the Ruler under an Islamic State The calipha and its not the job of common Public




    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry no time to read your post fully or the whole thread..

    Punishments in Islam SEEM TO APPEAR VERY HARSH ON THE OUTER but when we profoundly study the Prerequisites or requisites to carry out those punishments IT SHOWS THE GIST IS TO JUST TO FRIGHTEN AND WARN THE PUBLIC INTO INDULGING IN SINS, IMMORAL ACTIVITIES, ANARCHY , OPPRESSION etc

    For example from a Sahih hadith is that a Drunkard was brought to the Caliph Umar RA with the witness of the Authorities that they found drops of wine in his beard . When interrogated he refused his crime and was let off since there is no witnesses for the exact crime which is the actual drinking and what also drank was really a liquor (not a halal drink stored up in a bottle used for wine)

    In Islam we can never allege any one Guilty since just we have some references or being implied of a crime and that's a big crime that carries almost equal punishment of that Criminal. like done in the non islamic method where allegations are dumped on a person because its suspected.

    So this is the Law of Allah which is implemented after all its requisites of Banning all sort of triggers temptations that leads man to sins , for example Liquor is banned first 100% before bringing the hadd punishment and such punishments is implemented UNDER a Sharia court or the Ruler under an Islamic State The calipha and its not the job of common Public


    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    My Sect : No Sect

    My Aqeedha : Aqeedha of Sahabas as in http://legacy.quran.com/112

    Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    Walekum Assalam Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu:

    I will not address all the points in your post, but I do want to address point number 2 as thoroughly as I am able.

    Even if I agree with you that some gender interactions with the opposite sex is not harmful, I cannot agree that the overall preventative measure in Islam is unnecessary or redundant. You seem to be only contemplating, for example, the worst-case scenario, which is fornication. While that is a great sin in Islam, there are some other bad situations that can occur, and let's demonstrate this with some scenarios for your perusal:

    1) You are chitchatting with a girl casually and you develop feelings for her. Your parents of course won't even contemplate marriage until you're older and mature. Now, you're stuck having feelings for this girl, but you cannot do anything about it. Does that sound like an appetizing scenario to you?

    But let's imagine yet another:
    2) This girl is of another faith, and she doesn't see anything wrong with chatting with you or hugging you or whatever. She seems to understand you, and now you think she would be a great person if she converted and married except all of this contemplation is born only of your imagination. She, however, only sees you as a friend because she long ago "friend-zoned" you and never considered you anything other than a guy in whom she can confide her feelings and deepest desires. So, now, you have a "friend" with whom you don't want a friendship and instead see a future which cannot happen because she's never contemplated any such thing with you in the first place! Is that something you want?

    Now let's imagine yet another:
    3) You just casually talk to a girl and have absolutely no feelings for her. She, however, draws hearts in her diaries with your name and imagines how wonderful a relationship with you would be because you're her secret crush, and she's having a tough time at home because her parents are divorcing and fighting almost all the time. You, however, are entirely clueless and hurt her feelings when you don't reciprocate; and she genuinely thought you talking to her meant someone in the world liked her. Now, she's having suicidal thoughts because she already hates her home, and here you are another person in her life who disappointed her. Is giving someone heartache a recipe that you concocted with your unknowing encouragement and interaction with her or one born from rules of Islam?

    The gendered interaction in Islam is not meant to restrict you but to free you from experiences that might prove burdensome. It is not easy to be rejected or reject, and both of those things are distinct possibilities with unfettered interaction with the opposite sex. You can in fact browse this board or even the wider Internet with just some such questions that people ask once they experience the truth of what I've just relayed to you. These things happen in school, universities, the workplace. The secretary falls in love with her married boss. The student falls in in love with another student. The male friend is upset that the female friend has a proposal. It is said: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

    And also, if you're heterosexual, please don't try to tell me that the only feelings you have for a "hot" girl is fraternal in nature because that is something not even worthy of a proper response. But most importantly, don't fool yourself into believing that your innermost intentions are completely pure; we're human beings, not angels. We have a nafs (ego) that is already drawn to lower/most base desires, and we have shaitaan (Satan) always eager to lead us astray.

    Read the story of Barsisa to which I'm linking you and contemplate on the fact that shaitaan never comes to any believer and immediately says to fornicate. Rather, shaitaan takes you in any wrong direction by degrees, and the gradual progression and escalation is Shaitaan's greatest trick against all humankind. Fornication is one result, yes, but another one is often heartache. Remember the heart is the house of Allah, and misusing it for self-deception purposes is the reason so many people cry from the fallout of premarital relationships or unexpected heartbreak.

    (And peace be upon you)

    well said, brother, well said.....i myself was ignorant about this...i will keep this in mind.....
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    salaam

    PS - which scholars do you follow? - they seem to be very restrictive.
    I never did follow any specific scholar or anything like that. The stuff I follow is the stuff I learned from my father. He was a graduate of Al Azhar, so he knows quite a bit when it comes to fiqh. The rulings that I was referring to were ones I discovered when I started searching intensely about islam (during the period were I wanted to improve my relationship with God)

    Quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel View Post
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/omarm/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/IMG]

    Most of these is because of the environment in which we live or the culture in which a person is raised up. If a person associates himself with righteous people, or lives in a society of righteous people, or if a child is brought up according to Islamic values, then he won't face any problems in practicing properly and abstaining from all the sins. But when the environment is so engrossed in all these unIslamic things, it becomes difficult to abstain from them and it looks like a burden and like a restriction on one's freedom of indulging in sins.

    That is why it is very important for a Muslim to always be in the company of righteous people. If you can't find them at your place, then move to a better one. Migration to an Islamic place is one of the important aspects of Islam, which is largely neglected in these days.

    Allah [IMG]file:///C:/Users/omarm/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.png[/IMG] says,

    Indeed, those whom the angels take [in death] while wronging themselves - [the angels] will say, "In what [condition] were you?" They will say, "We were oppressed in the land." The angels will say, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious [enough] for you to emigrate therein?" For those, their refuge is Hell - and evil it is as a destination.
    Except for the oppressed among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan nor are they directed to a way -
    For those it is expected that Allah will pardon them, and Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.
    [An-Nisa: 97-99]


    Narrated Sufyan b. Abu Zuhair [IMG]file:///C:/Users/omarm/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image003.png[/IMG]:
    I heard Allah's Messenger [IMG]file:///C:/Users/omarm/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image004.png[/IMG] saying, "Yemen will be conquered and some people will migrate (from Medina) and will urge their families, and those who will obey them to migrate (to Yemen) although Medina will be better for them; if they but knew. Sham will also be conquered and some people will migrate (from Medina) and will urge their families and those who will obey them, to migrate (to Sham) although Medina will be better for them; if they but knew. 'Iraq will be conquered and some people will migrate (from Medina) and will urge their families and those who will obey them to migrate (to 'Iraq) although Medina will be better for them; if they but knew." [Bukhari]


    Although this Hadith is regarding Madinah, it can apply to any Muslim populated city. People nowadays are preferring to migrate to far off places instead of living in a place where they can practice their religion properly and safeguard their Imaan.
    Thank you SO much for the response brother. Great advice and I agree to it in general, but when u look at it in reality … it is much more difficult than it sounds. Even muslim countries don’t encourage muslims to stay in them. A lot of these countries favor western nationalities and give them extra benefits in work when compared to a regular arab or Asian people. Add to that the harsh and strict laws in some of these countries that make people turn away from islam. We’ve all seen the reaction of the masses to a man in a viral video who was talking to a woman behind a restaurant in SA. He got arrested for simply talking to a woman. (dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5093115/Saudi-police-arrest-man-SPEAKING-woman-break.html). May Allah guide us to what is best for us in this world and the hereafter


    Quote Originally Posted by Misbah-Abd View Post
    Yes, so the solution is to just give in to your whims and desires because you don't have enough iman to follow the Deen. As far as opinions, when it contradicts the Quran and Sunnah then take that opinion and fling it against the wall. Unbelievable that Muslims are starting to act like Christians and going to their prayer service once a week, leaving their righteousness there, and then do whatever they want the rest of the week. And Allah's refuge is sought...
    Sarcasm … Ok I will take it. As such, I will reply in a similar way …
    So lets all not question any of the information we are given and follow blindly that which the scholars say, even if its against our very nature. Lets all ignore the fact that the west is 100 times more advanced than us and pretend that we are still better than them. Let’s pretend that this extreme segregation between the sexes isn’t turning the youth into homosexuals and rapists. Let’s pretend that the majority of the sexual assaults and rape cases in Europe isn’t done by muslim immigrants who have been their suppressing urges for years and turning them into perverted creatures with no morals.

    Brother, please understand … I am looking for moderation in our religion. Im not calling for liberation, just being in the middle. This (what the scholars are doing to people and the youth specifically) isn’t moderation
    3 | Likes Search, czgibson, cinnamonrolls1 liked this post

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post



    Sarcasm … Ok I will take it. As such, I will reply in a similar way …
    So lets all not question any of the information we are given and follow blindly that which the scholars say, even if its against our very nature. Lets all ignore the fact that the west is 100 times more advanced than us and pretend that we are still better than them. Let’s pretend that this extreme segregation between the sexes isn’t turning the youth into homosexuals and rapists. Let’s pretend that the majority of the sexual assaults and rape cases in Europe isn’t done by muslim immigrants who have been their suppressing urges for years and turning them into perverted creatures with no morals.

    Brother, please understand … I am looking for moderation in our religion. Im not calling for liberation, just being in the middle. This (what the scholars are doing to people and the youth specifically) isn’t moderation
    The religion is established. Allah says: "This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed My favor upon you and am pleased with Islam as your religion." (5:3) The only thing now is to hear and obey. Your very nature is to worship Allah Azza wa Jal the way He wants you to and that means to obey His laws i.e. Quran and Sunnah. You can't judge Islam by how you perceive the West is winning and more advanced. Open up the Quran and read about Musa a.s. and his mission against Egypt and Pharoah. From the looks of it the Egyptians were more advanced materially than the Israelites. More military strength, land, fortune, etc. But they didn't have the Islam and the Tawhid. And Allah gave victory to the Muslims of Israel. We are better than them because we have iman in Allah while the kaffir doesn't. And it doesn't matter how well off materially they are because spiritually they are dead. As far as homo's and rapists, well that is more prevalent in Western society where you have the mixing of sexes. And for you to blame Muslim immigrants is a red flag that you are really just a troll or even worse trying to cause fitnah in this forum. The religion is moderate as it is. What is extreme is how you perceive it. What I suggest you do is stop allowing your environment in darul kufr to influence you, stop associating and imitating friends who may be disbelievers, read the Quran and learn your religion properly. And Allah Knows Best.

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Islam is about submission to the will of Allah. Either you submit to Him or you submit to you satan and your whims. Which path is easier or harder depends on the environment you live in and were raised in and your level of education about your religion.

    Points 1-4 and 9 are backed by sahih hadith, so don't go blaming scholars for those. Points 5-6 are also backed by hadith, such as those who imitated the kuffar is one of them. Are you going to blame the Prophet () now for being too strict? Regarding points 7 and 8, you can engage in them responsibly, such as doing it in moderation and keeping it clean. This is also backed by Islam and Scholars are only alluding to them. There are some scholars who take everything to extreme or say things that are out there. But scholars too are like any professional of any other field, you have the weak ones and you have the best ones. What you need is to increase your knowledge in your religion so you can understand these points that you raise and you will then see them in the right perspective.
    Last edited by Zzz_; 01-31-2018 at 03:47 AM.
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)


    Quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO View Post
    I never did follow any specific scholar or anything like that. The stuff I follow is the stuff I learned from my father. He was a graduate of Al Azhar, so he knows quite a bit when it comes to fiqh. The rulings that I was referring to were ones I discovered when I started searching intensely about islam (during the period were I wanted to improve my relationship with God)
    I agree with brother Zafran that the scholars whose answers you read, as per when you say you started searching intensely about Islam, seem to be giving extremely rigid answers. Early Muslims used to say, "This knowledge is a matter of deen, so be careful who you take your deen from." For example, I use the site Seekershub.org or eshaykh.com for fiqh rulings on contemporary issues as they better reflect my understanding of Islam specific to emerging issues in our times.

    Also, I want to provide you an insight on why you might have disliked, for example, the fatwa on playing video games. I am a voracious reader, though nowadays I have less time to engage in this favorite hobby/passion. However, I once read a fatwa on reading fiction, which seemed to say that I was entirely wasting my time and instead should be engaged in more beneficial Islamic activities. I became upset and angry with the both the fatwa and the issuer of the fatwa; and it took me a long time to realize and admit even to myself why I'd become upset and angry. In Islam, human beings' purpose on this earth is to worship Allah and while we all at some level understand or accept that as a spiritual truth, we're not all on the same level of knowledge or understanding or practice of our deen. Therefore, when we're called to a higher mode of behavior, we feel personally attacked as we feel what we're doing already is not good enough. And nobody likes feeling that they're either (a) not good enough or (b) what they're doing is not good enough. And for a while, when I didn't have free time to engage in any leisurely activity, even reading, I realized I didn't miss it and perhaps indeed I'd been wasting my time. But it took me to reach to a higher level of iman (faith) and being kept busy in other matters to realize this truth. Perhaps scholars feel that they should be calling people to be a better or even the best version of their selves as Muslims, which is perhaps why unfortunately sometimes their fatwas means that they are either (a) alienating or (b) engaging in the risk of alienating Muslims who are not at that same level as the higher call to submission that they're asking us to make for the sake of Allah. Please understand I'm not saying that you should not be playing video games; rather, I'm saying that perhaps you might later recognize why the fatwa is less about what you shouldn't do and more about what you have in yourself to be were you to fulfill your potential in that direction.

    By the way, I do celebrate birthdays and do not see anything wrong with celebrating wedding anniversaries; I follow the understanding and fatwa that these occasions are permissible to celebrate given no subversion of rules of Allah. I am not an avid watcher of movies, and I especially dislike the movies that are made today with nudity and strong language. However, I have not given up entirely watching movies as I dislike for myself to engage in any type of stringent mode of behavior that might breed an insidious hypocrisy. It is relayed that Prophet Isa (Jesus) (peace be upon him) once said, "If the bowstring is always taut, the bow will eventually break." I would rather be flexible than break or be breakable. Islam is meant to be easy and we should strive to make it easy on ourselves and others inasmuch as possible while acknowledging our weaknesses; that said, we should keep striving to do all that we within our capacity to escape our weaknesses without at any point overburdening ourselves or others so that we either burn out or turn to kufr (disbelief). Remember the story of the tortoise and the hare: slow and steady wins the race. (And if we're contemplative, we'll realize that this is not even a race but a journey to our Lord. Bumps and humps here and there are much preferable to entirely turning away or giving up, because in the end we still can never escape judgment of the Judge when called upon for our individual judging on Judgment Day.)


    Thank you SO much for the response brother. Great advice and I agree to it in general, but when u look at it in reality … it is much more difficult than it sounds. Even muslim countries don’t encourage muslims to stay in them. A lot of these countries favor western nationalities and give them extra benefits in work when compared to a regular arab or Asian people. Add to that the harsh and strict laws in some of these countries that make people turn away from islam. We’ve all seen the reaction of the masses to a man in a viral video who was talking to a woman behind a restaurant in SA. He got arrested for simply talking to a woman. (dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5093115/Saudi-police-arrest-man-SPEAKING-woman-break.html). May Allah guide us to what is best for us in this world and the hereafter
    I, like many other people, are not in a financial or even a cultural position to make hijrah to Muslim lands. I had in the past thought that I would always be free to practice my religion as I see fit in the U.S. However, over time, I realize that there's a more pronounced discomfort that I feel living here, and I think it is because I don't think the culture reflects a space and openness for acceptance of my unique identity. Rather, I'm becoming more and more aware that I'm an "outsider" and will always be, because I am Muslim Alhamdhullilah (thanks, gratitude and credit to Allah) and plan to continue being so.

    If I were given an opportunity in time to move to a Muslim land wherein I could practice my religion freely and listen to adhaan and had pragmatic plans in place for supporting myself financially and a good living situation, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The truth is that Islam is free from all blame and aspersions that people cast on it, but Muslims are not free from following non-Muslims in their sins as the culture in non-Muslim countries is generally inundated with freedoms that are designed to oppress the soul and free the inner beast that seeks to roam free from all restraint without thought to what freedom is; and some of the sins that we're now seeing becoming more pervasive in Muslim communities is due to not being able to teach Muslims that freedom can never come at the cost of not fulfilling responsibilities to others and ourselves (especially as believers) and there is no freedom without consequence. For example, a person is free to drive a car if he has a license and is an adult (that is, 18 years of age) in the U.S. But the person is not free from the responsibility of acquiring car insurance to see that if there's an accident, coverage exists for both parties. And the person is not free from the possibility of losing a limb should he get into a bad accident on the highway when he's speeding. The culture here, however, uses the word freedom for sloganeering without accompanying understanding of attached responsibilities and consequences. Therefore, hollow chants of "freedom" enslave the unthinking mind to the chains of materialism and hedonism. What is the use of your body being free if shaitaan instead shackles you to himself and especially so in the hereafter? The truth is that freedom lays only in submission to Allah; for otherwise you'll be submitting to things other than Allah, which is never a recipe for peace or contentment. Otherwise, the happiest and most contented creature on earth would be shaitaan, because he's willfully disobedient to Allah and has no plans of submission; instead, shaitaan, despite having freely chosen disobedience, is tirelessly running after us because he's submitted to the act of making us to disobey instead. In perhaps what can only be described as supreme irony, shaitaan is defeated not by us but by his own choices.


    Sarcasm … Ok I will take it. As such, I will reply in a similar way …
    So lets all not question any of the information we are given and follow blindly that which the scholars say, even if its against our very nature. Lets all ignore the fact that the west is 100 times more advanced than us and pretend that we are still better than them. Let’s pretend that this extreme segregation between the sexes isn’t turning the youth into homosexuals and rapists. Let’s pretend that the majority of the sexual assaults and rape cases in Europe isn’t done by muslim immigrants who have been their suppressing urges for years and turning them into perverted creatures with no morals.

    Brother, please understand … I am looking for moderation in our religion. Im not calling for liberation, just being in the middle. This (what the scholars are doing to people and the youth specifically) isn’t moderation
    Please don't be duped by how "advanced" you find the West. The West is only technologically and scientifically advanced. But that is not the measure of success, remember. What use is technology or science if all you have emerging out of it are people who reject either wholesale belief in Allah (God) or live their lives on the principle of YOLO because they believe themselves already forgiven in the hereafter, as if God has guaranteed any human being Paradise without following through on the intention and action that epitomizes that belief. The West comprises of a declining culture that no longer seems to (a) know itself or (b) be able to reflect on its failings or (c) contemplate self-correction.

    Believe it or not, the West had the same morals and values that Muslims hold in regards to aspects of opposite gender interaction about a 150-200 years ago; non-Muslims used to engage in courtship rituals under the proper supervision of chaperones which are not unlike meeting arrangements contemplated in Muslim families. Then, women and men used to value families and neighbors; however, as time moved forward, the familiarity between human beings, especially as once extant in families and neighbors, eroded as an observance. And what you see today is born from the decline of a culture that once valued the same values that Muslims even today value.

    Restraint is not harmful and does not turn people into rapists and homosexuals; rather, the culture of expecting youth to attain higher and higher educating without giving them a permissible outlet for their sexual desires is turning people (of all self-identified sexual orientation) into frustrated human beings who are turning to pornography or premarital relationships and sex. In the meantime, the pervasiveness of everyday-type "soft pornography" like perfume ads or beer ads are showcasing gorgeous women in basic states of undress and desirability to sell products, desensitizing men further to women's spiritual role as respected daughters, sisters, mothers, and wives, and heavenly companions of men. The type of illicit promotions seen in the ad world today would never have been contemplated even in Western culture a few hundred years ago, because such bombardment of illicit images would have been considered immoral and even illegal.

    Today, from what I understand though, the Muslim world is one of the front-runners in terms of downloading pornography, mainly an invention of depravity which are bringing top dollars to the handful of Western elite in the adult entertainment industry who are creators and exporters of such scandalous and salacious material; and on top of that, many men in Muslim countries have never been taught how to properly address or respect women when guests in a foreign land or even to know to lower their gaze specific to women who do not seem to be reflecting a modest dressing style or demeanor. So, therefore, these "men", (a) free to roam as singles in countries so different from their own and (b) freed from all cultural restraint so ingrained in their country of origin and also (c) not religious or practicing, feel themselves entitled to prey on women who they don't know and contemplate from an eye that objectifies the opposite gender due to desensitization from pornography.
    By the way, unarguably, "men" who prey on women are beastly and immoral and evil; and I'm not trying to justify such perverted behavior. I use "men" in quotation marks because they're quite clearly ignorant of what it means to be truly men, because they prove themselves little more than boorishly oversexed trolls, in the abject state of looking at the world through boyishly selfish voyeuristic fantasies. In other words, I'm trying to tell you very clearly and simply that to blame Islam at the root of such perversions is to miss the truth that Islam never endorsed such behavior but rather strongly condemned such. Of course, it goes without saying that just because a country is populated with Muslims does not mean that Islam is the backbone of it; the sad truth is that the wider culture in Muslim-majority countries is often steeped in jahilliyah (ignorance) because most Muslim-majority countries are rather un-Islamic once you delve beyond a superficial level to see that there are (a) mosques but without the widespread willingness of the people to congregate and fill the prayer halls and (b) scholars indubitably arrogant on account of their amassed knowledge and adding titles to their names, (c) speakers on the deen who speak without imparting wisdom on advanced topics at level of the common folk and c) imams, mostly inaccessible to the common public, who are also incidentally no longer teaching people about tazkiyaah known as purification (of the soul) or adab known as Islamic manners.

    Islam is already a religion of moderation; if we move the needle more towards other than that which is already the baseline thread within Islam, then we'll risk moving towards a direction that is not moderation but laxity which is neither Islamic nor desirable in terms of outcome (under the guise of moderation).


    Sincere Regards & Best Wishes,

    (And peace be upon you)
    Last edited by Search; 01-31-2018 at 04:14 AM.
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)


    I agree with brother Zafran that the scholars whose answers you read, as per when you say you started searching intensely about Islam, seem to be giving extremely rigid answers. Early Muslims used to say, "This knowledge is a matter of deen, so be careful who you take your deen from." For example, I use the site Seekershub.org or eshaykh.com for fiqh rulings on contemporary issues as they better reflect my understanding of Islam specific to emerging issues in our times.

    Also, I want to provide you an insight on why you might have disliked, for example, the fatwa on playing video games. I am a voracious reader, though nowadays I have less time to engage in this favorite hobby/passion. However, I once read a fatwa on reading fiction, which seemed to say that I was entirely wasting my time and instead should be engaged in more beneficial Islamic activities. I became upset and angry with the both the fatwa and the issuer of the fatwa; and it took me a long time to realize and admit even to myself why I'd become upset and angry. In Islam, human beings' purpose on this earth is to worship Allah and while we all at some level understand or accept that as a spiritual truth, we're not all on the same level of knowledge or understanding or practice of our deen. Therefore, when we're called to a higher mode of behavior, we feel personally attacked as we feel what we're doing already is not good enough. And nobody likes feeling that they're either (a) not good enough or (b) what they're doing is not good enough. And for a while, when I didn't have free time to engage in any leisurely activity, even reading, I realized I didn't miss it and perhaps indeed I'd been wasting my time. But it took me to reach to a higher level of iman (faith) and being kept busy in other matters to realize this truth. Perhaps scholars feel that they should be calling people to be a better or even the best version of their selves as Muslims, which is perhaps why unfortunately sometimes their fatwas means that they are either (a) alienating or (b) engaging in the risk of alienating Muslims who are not at that same level as the higher call to submission that they're asking us to make for the sake of Allah. Please understand I'm not saying that you should not be playing video games; rather, I'm saying that perhaps you might later recognize why the fatwa is less about what you shouldn't do and more about what you have in yourself to be were you to fulfill your potential in that direction.

    By the way, I do celebrate birthdays and do not see anything wrong with celebrating wedding anniversaries; I follow the understanding and fatwa that these occasions are permissible to celebrate given no subversion of rules of Allah. I am not an avid watcher of movies, and I especially dislike the movies that are made today with nudity and strong language. However, I have not given up entirely watching movies as I dislike for myself to engage in any type of stringent mode of behavior that might breed an insidious hypocrisy. It is relayed that Prophet Isa (Jesus) (peace be upon him) once said, "If the bowstring is always taut, the bow will eventually break." I would rather be flexible than break or be breakable. Islam is meant to be easy and we should strive to make it easy on ourselves and others inasmuch as possible while acknowledging our weaknesses; that said, we should keep striving to do all that we within our capacity to escape our weaknesses without at any point overburdening ourselves or others so that we either burn out or turn to kufr (disbelief). Remember the story of the tortoise and the hare: slow and steady wins the race. (And if we're contemplative, we'll realize that this is not even a race but a journey to our Lord. Bumps and humps here and there are much preferable to entirely turning away or giving up, because in the end we still can never escape judgment of the Judge when called upon for our individual judging on Judgment Day.)


    I, like many other people, are not in a financial or even a cultural position to make hijrah to Muslim lands. I had in the past thought that I would always be free to practice my religion as I see fit in the U.S. However, over time, I realize that there's a more pronounced discomfort that I feel living here, and I think it is because I don't think the culture reflects a space and openness for acceptance of my unique identity. Rather, I'm becoming more and more aware that I'm an "outsider" and will always be, because I am Muslim Alhamdhullilah (thanks, gratitude and credit to Allah) and plan to continue being so.

    If I were given an opportunity in time to move to a Muslim land wherein I could practice my religion freely and listen to adhaan and had pragmatic plans in place for supporting myself financially and a good living situation, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The truth is that Islam is free from all blame and aspersions that people cast on it, but Muslims are not free from following non-Muslims in their sins as the culture in non-Muslim countries is generally inundated with freedoms that are designed to oppress the soul and free the inner beast that seeks to roam free from all restraint without thought to what freedom is; and some of the sins that we're now seeing becoming more pervasive in Muslim communities is due to not being able to teach Muslims that freedom can never come at the cost of not fulfilling responsibilities to others and ourselves (especially as believers) and there is no freedom without consequence. For example, a person is free to drive a car if he has a license and is an adult (that is, 18 years of age) in the U.S. But the person is not free from the responsibility of acquiring car insurance to see that if there's an accident, coverage exists for both parties. And the person is not free from the possibility of losing a limb should he get into a bad accident on the highway when he's speeding. The culture here, however, uses the word freedom for sloganeering without accompanying understanding of attached responsibilities and consequences. Therefore, hollow chants of "freedom" enslave the unthinking mind to the chains of materialism and hedonism. What is the use of your body being free if shaitaan instead shackles you to himself and especially so in the hereafter? The truth is that freedom lays only in submission to Allah; for otherwise you'll be submitting to things other than Allah, which is never a recipe for peace or contentment. Otherwise, the happiest and most contented creature on earth would be shaitaan, because he's willfully disobedient to Allah and has no plans of submission; instead, shaitaan, despite having freely chosen disobedience, is tirelessly running after us because he's submitted to the act of making us to disobey instead. In perhaps what can only be described as supreme irony, shaitaan is defeated not by us but by his own choices.




    Please don't be duped by how "advanced" you find the West. The West is only technologically and scientifically advanced. But that is not the measure of success, remember. What use is technology or science if all you have emerging out of it are people who reject either wholesale belief in Allah (God) or live their lives on the principle of YOLO because they believe themselves already forgiven in the hereafter, as if God has guaranteed any human being Paradise without following through on the intention and action that epitomizes that belief. The West comprises of a declining culture that no longer seems to (a) know itself or (b) be able to reflect on its failings or (c) contemplate self-correction.

    Believe it or not, the West had the same morals and values that Muslims hold in regards to aspects of opposite gender interaction about a 150-200 years ago; non-Muslims used to engage in courtship rituals under the proper supervision of chaperones which are not unlike meeting arrangements contemplated in Muslim families. Then, women and men used to value families and neighbors; however, as time moved forward, the familiarity between human beings, especially as once extant in families and neighbors, eroded as an observance. And what you see today is born from the decline of a culture that once valued the same values that Muslims even today value.

    Restraint is not harmful and does not turn people into rapists and homosexuals; rather, the culture of expecting youth to attain higher and higher educating without giving them a permissible outlet for their sexual desires is turning people (of all self-identified sexual orientation) into frustrated human beings who are turning to pornography or premarital relationships and sex. In the meantime, the pervasiveness of everyday-type "soft pornography" like perfume ads or beer ads are showcasing gorgeous women in basic states of undress and desirability to sell products, desensitizing men further to women's spiritual role as respected daughters, sisters, mothers, and wives, and heavenly companions of men. The type of illicit promotions seen in the ad world today would never have been contemplated even in Western culture a few hundred years ago, because such bombardment of illicit images would have been considered immoral and even illegal.

    Today, from what I understand though, the Muslim world is one of the front-runners in terms of downloading pornography, mainly an invention of depravity which are bringing top dollars to the handful of Western elite in the adult entertainment industry who are creators and exporters of such scandalous and salacious material; and on top of that, many men in Muslim countries have never been taught how to properly address or respect women when guests in a foreign land or even to know to lower their gaze specific to women who do not seem to be reflecting a modest dressing style or demeanor. So, therefore, these "men", (a) free to roam as singles in countries so different from their own and (b) freed from all cultural restraint so ingrained in their country of origin and also (c) not religious or practicing, feel themselves entitled to prey on women who they don't know and contemplate from an eye that objectifies the opposite gender due to desensitization from pornography.
    By the way, unarguably, "men" who prey on women are beastly and immoral and evil; and I'm not trying to justify such perverted behavior. I use "men" in quotation marks because they're quite clearly ignorant of what it means to be truly men, because they prove themselves little more than boorishly oversexed trolls, in the abject state of looking at the world through boyishly selfish voyeuristic fantasies. In other words, I'm trying to tell you very clearly and simply that to blame Islam at the root of such perversions is to miss the truth that Islam never endorsed such behavior but rather strongly condemned such. Of course, it goes without saying that just because a country is populated with Muslims does not mean that Islam is the backbone of it; the sad truth is that the wider culture in Muslim-majority countries is often steeped in jahilliyah (ignorance) because most Muslim-majority countries are rather un-Islamic once you delve beyond a superficial level to see that there are (a) mosques but without the widespread willingness of the people to congregate and fill the prayer halls and (b) scholars indubitably arrogant on account of their amassed knowledge and adding titles to their names, (c) speakers on the deen who speak without imparting wisdom on advanced topics at level of the common folk and c) imams, mostly inaccessible to the common public, who are also incidentally no longer teaching people about tazkiyaah known as purification (of the soul) or adab known as Islamic manners.

    Islam is already a religion of moderation; if we move the needle more towards other than that which is already the baseline thread within Islam, then we'll risk moving towards a direction that is not moderation but laxity which is neither Islamic nor desirable in terms of outcome (under the guise of moderation).


    Sincere Regards & Best Wishes,

    (And peace be upon you)
    In your post, there are a few points that I actually found intriguing and stirred up my thought process.

    1) The statement about your hobby and why it made you angry to hear that fatwa: to be honest, I never thought of it like that. I think it also does apply to me to an extent. However, now that I think about it, I think the main reason why I got upset about it is because of the justification to the fatwa they gave. It seemed to me that they were implying that any action that does not consist of Ibada can be considered as haram because it is considered as a waste of time. However, if we apply this logic to everything, we can also consider sleeping moderately to be haram as well because this time can be used for Ibada instead.

    2)
    Your quote regarding Prophet Isa (AA): This is exactly the point I was trying to make in the first post (but somehow people misunderstood me and thought I was attacking the religion itself. I was only questioning and doubting the scholars and their fatwas, not the deen!). If we keep forbidding more and more things in our world eventually we will break and wont be able to continue (and for those who have iman and think that they can handle all that, good for you, but don’t forget that most of the world aint like that). Just remember the encounter Prophet Muhammad (SAAW) had with Prophet Musa (AA), just after he received the command of salah. The Prophet Musa requested that the Prophet Muhammad would go back and ask Allah to reduce the number of salawaat on us.

    3)
    “The truth is that Islam is free from all blame”: Again, this goes back to the original intention of my post. It was meant to question the scholars of today, not islam. I truly believe that most of the fatwas of prohibition made on the doubtful matter are made out of fear or bias, not reason and logic. But who am I to judge, that’s why I was asking for the opinions of other people. But then again made some people to call me a troll and a non-practicing muslim for questioning these fatwas.

    4)
    The section about freedom and responsibility: I agree with most of what you have said. However, I failed to understand how all of what you said relates to the point I was trying to make

    5) Restraint is not harmful and does not turn people into rapists and homosexuals: I would have to strongly disagree with you there. Restraint is extremely harmful. Specially when it comes to sexual desires. The longer a person is restraint from their desires the more they yearn for it. And if the person is taught islam through fear (which is how most people are taught islam nowadays in Pakistan and Afghanistan) they wont have proper iman or even morals. That’s why when they leave their parents houses and immigrate to western countries, they abandon all of that which they have been taught about islam. Had it not been for the wrong methods they were taught with (fear of Allah instead of love for him), they would probably want to hold on to their faith and willingly give up everything for Allah’s sake and satisfaction.

    That’s also the problem with the scholars of this generation. It is that they choose to teach islam through fear instead of love. They make the main motive of the younger generation to be fear when following the deen than to follow it out of love of Allah’s mercy. And who would be motivated to believe in a God that keeps punishing people for every single wrong thing they do? This is what people perceive when scholars keep shooting the haram word at everything(shubuhat) they do. Every action they take will lead to punishment. How is that a religion which motivates people to follow it?

    I remember there was a hadeeth about a person that pledged his allegiance to the Prophet (SAAW) on the conditions of praying 2 salat only per day. The Prophet accepted and later when the man was dismissed, the companions asked the Prophet why he agreed to such conditions. He stated that once the man tastes the goodness of these 2 prayers he will want to pray more. This is the kind of teaching that would actually encourage people to join islam, not the constant bombardment of how everything that doesn’t consist of ibada or sunna is haram.

    Finally, I would like to state the original purpose of this post again, which was to discuss the points I mentioned and see why you may or may not agree with them since they were controversial topics (or so I thought). I never meant to offend anyone by posting this at all and im sorry if it did. Anyways, thanks for ALL your responses.
    2 | Likes beleiver, Aaqib liked this post

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    1) Music: If it doesn't help you in remembering Allah, what's the point of it? It's just a waste of time, and time is something that is very useful and crucial. You can still listen to music while remembering Allah, i.e. listening to anasheed (preferably without certain musical instruments, i.e. vocals only).

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: I know there will be some people who are more conservative and strict in their approach but this is what I personally think. There is nothing wrong with simply interacting with the opposite gender. Having a quick chat, helping them with something, or asking them about something is perfectly fine. Some people think that as soon as they see someone of the opposite gender, they should shield their eyes and run away. And frankly, I find this approach immature. If you find yourself alone with a woman or a man, then you need to be mature about it and deal with this situation in a controlled way. Lowering your gaze does not only mean not looking at things you're not meant to, but also the way you behave, i.e. not flirting or stepping outside your boundaries. But there is nothing wrong with simply talking to someone of the opposite gender.

    3) Cosmetics: If the cosmetics are being used to beautify oneself for the sake of their husband and their appearance, then it's permissible, as long as a) the ingredients are not harmful b) the ingredients are not haram and c) the body isn't altered or permanently changed. Allah has created us perfect: { لَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا ٱلإِنسَانَ فِيۤ أَحْسَنِ تَقْوِيمٍ }Verily We created man al-insān the generic in the best of forms in the best proportioning of his shape.

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: Men are allowed to wear rings, but chains, bracelets, and earrings are discouraged because they are imitations of men.

    5) Wedding anniversaries: An Eid is a festival or holiday. It does not need to be of religious influence or significance. If the husband makes a day special, and he intends to do the same the next year, and so on and so forth, then he is clearly making it a festival, when Allah has decreed there only to be two festivals. Besides, every day should be a day of love, not just the day one year after their marriage.

    6) Birthdays: Not decreed, not in the Sunnah, and nothing to celebrate about getting closer to your death.

    7) Playing video games: There's nothing wrong with having fun, as long as you aren't doing anything sinful or anything that might lead you to sin. And actually, not having fun, i.e. boredom, can lead you to sin as said above.

    8) Watching movies: Entertainment is allowed, in my opinion, although you should be a bit cautious about what kinds of stuff you're watching and who you're watching it with (some things may not be suitable for children)

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: Wearing T-shirts is fine; they're not an imitation of the Kuffar. Not everything is an imitation of the Kuffar; there are guidelines concerning that, please read them here https://islamqa.info/en/21694. Depends what is on the T-shirt, things like animals, etc, should not be worn.

    As you can see, most of the stuff you mentioned are actually fine. Islam allows you to have some freedom in your lives; it's not restricted only to worship. If you have further queries, feel free to ask.
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ قَوْلًا مِّمَّن دَعَا إِلَى اللَّـهِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا وَقَالَ إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
    ~ And who is better in speech than someone who calls to God, and acts with integrity, and says, “I am of those who submit”?

  17. #14
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by 99sobi View Post
    1) Music: If it doesn't help you in remembering Allah, what's the point of it? It's just a waste of time, and time is something that is very useful and crucial. You can still listen to music while remembering Allah, i.e. listening to anasheed (preferably without certain musical instruments, i.e. vocals only).

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: I know there will be some people who are more conservative and strict in their approach but this is what I personally think. There is nothing wrong with simply interacting with the opposite gender. Having a quick chat, helping them with something, or asking them about something is perfectly fine. Some people think that as soon as they see someone of the opposite gender, they should shield their eyes and run away. And frankly, I find this approach immature. If you find yourself alone with a woman or a man, then you need to be mature about it and deal with this situation in a controlled way. Lowering your gaze does not only mean not looking at things you're not meant to, but also the way you behave, i.e. not flirting or stepping outside your boundaries. But there is nothing wrong with simply talking to someone of the opposite gender.

    3) Cosmetics: If the cosmetics are being used to beautify oneself for the sake of their husband and their appearance, then it's permissible, as long as a) the ingredients are not harmful b) the ingredients are not haram and c) the body isn't altered or permanently changed. Allah has created us perfect: { لَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا ٱلإِنسَانَ فِيۤ أَحْسَنِ تَقْوِيمٍ }Verily We created man al-insān the generic in the best of forms in the best proportioning of his shape.

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: Men are allowed to wear rings, but chains, bracelets, and earrings are discouraged because they are imitations of men.

    5) Wedding anniversaries: An Eid is a festival or holiday. It does not need to be of religious influence or significance. If the husband makes a day special, and he intends to do the same the next year, and so on and so forth, then he is clearly making it a festival, when Allah has decreed there only to be two festivals. Besides, every day should be a day of love, not just the day one year after their marriage.

    6) Birthdays: Not decreed, not in the Sunnah, and nothing to celebrate about getting closer to your death.

    7) Playing video games: There's nothing wrong with having fun, as long as you aren't doing anything sinful or anything that might lead you to sin. And actually, not having fun, i.e. boredom, can lead you to sin as said above.

    8) Watching movies: Entertainment is allowed, in my opinion, although you should be a bit cautious about what kinds of stuff you're watching and who you're watching it with (some things may not be suitable for children)

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: Wearing T-shirts is fine; they're not an imitation of the Kuffar. Not everything is an imitation of the Kuffar; there are guidelines concerning that, please read them here https://islamqa.info/en/21694. Depends what is on the T-shirt, things like animals, etc, should not be worn.

    As you can see, most of the stuff you mentioned are actually fine. Islam allows you to have some freedom in your lives; it's not restricted only to worship. If you have further queries, feel free to ask.
    Sayyiduna ‘Ali (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said:
    “If the religion were based on opinion, it would be more important to wipe [make masah on] the under part of the leather sock rather than the upper, however, I have seen Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) wipe the upper part.”

    (Sunan Abi Dawud, Hadith: 163, At Talkhisul Habir, Hadith: 717)
    1 | Likes Misbah-Abd liked this post
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    Sayyiduna ‘Ali (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said:
    “If the religion were based on opinion, it would be more important to wipe [make masah on] the under part of the leather sock rather than the upper, however, I have seen Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) wipe the upper part.”

    (Sunan Abi Dawud, Hadith: 163, At Talkhisul Habir, Hadith: 717)
    If the Prophet did it, then you should do it; what do you mean/what is your point?
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ قَوْلًا مِّمَّن دَعَا إِلَى اللَّـهِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا وَقَالَ إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
    ~ And who is better in speech than someone who calls to God, and acts with integrity, and says, “I am of those who submit”?

  20. #16
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by 99sobi View Post
    If the Prophet did it, then you should do it; what do you mean/what is your point?
    Quote Originally Posted by 99sobi View Post
    1) Music: If it doesn't help you in remembering Allah, what's the point of it? It's just a waste of time, and time is something that is very useful and crucial. You can still listen to music while remembering Allah, i.e. listening to anasheed (preferably without certain musical instruments, i.e. vocals only).

    2) Interaction with the opposite gender: I know there will be some people who are more conservative and strict in their approach but this is what I personally think. There is nothing wrong with simply interacting with the opposite gender. Having a quick chat, helping them with something, or asking them about something is perfectly fine. Some people think that as soon as they see someone of the opposite gender, they should shield their eyes and run away. And frankly, I find this approach immature. If you find yourself alone with a woman or a man, then you need to be mature about it and deal with this situation in a controlled way. Lowering your gaze does not only mean not looking at things you're not meant to, but also the way you behave, i.e. not flirting or stepping outside your boundaries. But there is nothing wrong with simply talking to someone of the opposite gender.

    3) Cosmetics: If the cosmetics are being used to beautify oneself for the sake of their husband and their appearance, then it's permissible, as long as a) the ingredients are not harmful b) the ingredients are not haram and c) the body isn't altered or permanently changed. Allah has created us perfect: { لَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا ٱلإِنسَانَ فِيۤ أَحْسَنِ تَقْوِيمٍ }Verily We created man al-insān the generic in the best of forms in the best proportioning of his shape.

    4) Men wearing nongold and silk adornments: Men are allowed to wear rings, but chains, bracelets, and earrings are discouraged because they are imitations of men.

    5) Wedding anniversaries: An Eid is a festival or holiday. It does not need to be of religious influence or significance. If the husband makes a day special, and he intends to do the same the next year, and so on and so forth, then he is clearly making it a festival, when Allah has decreed there only to be two festivals. Besides, every day should be a day of love, not just the day one year after their marriage.

    6) Birthdays: Not decreed, not in the Sunnah, and nothing to celebrate about getting closer to your death.

    7) Playing video games: There's nothing wrong with having fun, as long as you aren't doing anything sinful or anything that might lead you to sin. And actually, not having fun, i.e. boredom, can lead you to sin as said above.

    8) Watching movies: Entertainment is allowed, in my opinion, although you should be a bit cautious about what kinds of stuff you're watching and who you're watching it with (some things may not be suitable for children)

    9) Wearing T-shirts that has drawings on them: Wearing T-shirts is fine; they're not an imitation of the Kuffar. Not everything is an imitation of the Kuffar; there are guidelines concerning that, please read them here https://islamqa.info/en/21694. Depends what is on the T-shirt, things like animals, etc, should not be worn.

    As you can see, most of the stuff you mentioned are actually fine. Islam allows you to have some freedom in your lives; it's not restricted only to worship. If you have further queries, feel free to ask.
    ''In my opinion'' has NO place when clear guidelines in Islam are written. Plz see bold parts in your post.

    I'm not a pious person though but I never mould Islamic rulings according to ''in my opinion''.

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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    ''In my opinion'' has NO place when clear guidelines in Islam are written. Plz see bold parts in your post.

    I'm not a pious person though but I never mould Islamic rulings according to ''in my opinion''.
    I'm not trying to suggest a different ruling, I wouldn't dare do such a thing. I believe that actions are by intentions as the Prophet said, so if someone speaks to a woman with the intention of breaching her space, and making her feel uncomfortable, and not lowering his gaze, in order to flirt or anything like that, then he is sinning and going against the command of Allah. But if someone is speaking to a woman with the intention of helping her, or finding information about something, or anything that is not impermissible, then there is no sin being committed, because my intentions are not evil or bad. And Allah knows best
    1 | Likes ChosenTCO liked this post
    Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ قَوْلًا مِّمَّن دَعَا إِلَى اللَّـهِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا وَقَالَ إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
    ~ And who is better in speech than someone who calls to God, and acts with integrity, and says, “I am of those who submit”?

  22. #18
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    ''In my opinion'' has NO place when clear guidelines in Islam are written. Plz see bold parts in your post.

    I'm not a pious person though but I never mould Islamic rulings according to ''in my opinion''.
    You mentioned CLEAR GUIDELINES. Brother, don't forget that there are some things that are considered as Shubuhaat (شبهات) (meaning doubtful matters). And the reason why there are things that are of shubuhat is because it DOES NOT have clear guidelines in share'a. Things like driving cars, praying in airplanes, using the internet, vaping, all of these things did not exist at the time of the prophet and therefore doesn't have clear rulings in the Share'a. There are also acts that used to exist at the time of the prophet that were not talked about (or at least, no mention of it exist in our records. Example, Oral xxx). Now, with this in mind, all of the points i wanted to discuss in my post were things that (as far as i know) have no clear rulings in Islam. Most of these things are made doubtful in our hearts because of all the stuff that the scholars of today harshly and illogically say about them. I made this post in effort to discuss whether i was missing any clear rulings regarding these points and discuss about how to counter the harshness of some of these scholars.

    As proof to what i just said, there is a hadith that encourages us to consult our heart about such matters even if we consulted the right people and still feel doubt.
    Sayyiduna Wabisah ibn Ma’bad (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said: “I came close to Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) until my knees touched his. He asked: ‘O Wabisah, should I inform you of what you came to ask or will you ask?’ I replied: ‘O Messenger of Allah, inform me.’ He said: ‘You came to ask me about righteousness and sin.’ I replied: ‘Yes.’ He combined three of his fingers and started to poke me with them in my chest and said, ‘O Wabisah, ask your heart, ask yourself.’ [He repeated it three times and then said:] ‘Righteousness is that which the heart feels at ease with and the soul is content with and sin is that which troubles the heart and causes doubts in the chest, even if people pass fatwa (of permissibility) for you and give you verdicts.”

    You speak of Clear Guidelines, yet i have directed you to a link that talks about instances and narrations given as proof that music is not forbidden as appose to the many narrations that goes against music (just as an example to show you that not everything is that clear). Other scholars use single cases of reasoning to justify prohibiting entire things that can have many different motives. For example, cosmetic surgeries are deemed haram because most scholars think that the only reason why people do it is to change the natural human form when in fact this is not the case. Many of the women who have had cosmetic surgeries did it to restore a part of their body to their natural state/size (this can vary from resizing an abnormally large nose to restoring the breast size after pregnancy & breastfeeding). Another example is drawing, but i have already made a previous post about that (if you want to take a look about my argument). A third is adornments for men, where most scholars seem to think its just for beautification when its not.

    On and on the arguments go ... so no brother, things are not clear as you may think. I was wanting to discuss and debate about the reasoning of some of these prohibitions. Im not here to mock or insult! So if you feel like you would like to correct me on one or more of my points feel free to do so as i am looking to learn more about other people's
    perspectives and gain knowledge from them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    ''In my opinion'' has NO place when clear guidelines in Islam are written. Plz see bold parts in your post.

    I'm not a pious person though but I never mould Islamic rulings according to ''in my opinion''.

    You mentioned CLEAR GUIDELINES. Brother, don't forget that there are some things that are considered as Shubuhaat (شبهات) (meaning doubtful matters). And the reason why there are things that are of shubuhat is because it DOES NOT have clear guidelines in share'a. Things like driving cars, praying in airplanes, using the internet, vaping, all of these things did not exist at the time of the prophet and therefore doesn't have clear rulings in the Share'a. There are also acts that used to exist at the time of the prophet that were not talked about (or at least, no mention of it exist in our records. Example, Oral xxx). Now, with this in mind, all of the points i wanted to discuss in my post were things that (as far as i know) have no clear rulings in Islam. Most of these things are made doubtful in our hearts because of all the stuff that the scholars of today harshly and illogically say about them. I made this post in effort to discuss whether i was missing any clear rulings regarding these points and discuss about how to counter the harshness of some of these scholars.

    As proof to what i just said, there is a hadith that encourages us to consult our heart about such matters even if we consulted the right people and still feel doubt.
    Sayyiduna Wabisah ibn Ma’bad (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said: “I came close to Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) until my knees touched his. He asked: ‘O Wabisah, should I inform you of what you came to ask or will you ask?’ I replied: ‘O Messenger of Allah, inform me.’ He said: ‘You came to ask me about righteousness and sin.’ I replied: ‘Yes.’ He combined three of his fingers and started to poke me with them in my chest and said, ‘O Wabisah, ask your heart, ask yourself.’ [He repeated it three times and then said:] ‘Righteousness is that which the heart feels at ease with and the soul is content with and sin is that which troubles the heart and causes doubts in the chest, even if people pass fatwa (of permissibility) for you and give you verdicts.”

    You speak of Clear Guidelines, yet i have directed you to a link that talks about instances and narrations given as proof that music is not forbidden as appose to the many narrations that goes against music (just as an example to show you that not everything is that clear). Other scholars use single cases of reasoning to justify prohibiting entire things that can have many different motives. For example, cosmetic surgeries are deemed haram because most scholars think that the only reason why people do it is to change the natural human form when in fact this is not the case. Many of the women who have had cosmetic surgeries did it to restore a part of their body to their natural state/size (this can vary from resizing an abnormally large nose to restoring the breast size after pregnancy & breastfeeding). Another example is drawing, but i have already made a previous post about that (if you want to take a look about my argument). A third is adornments for men, where most scholars seem to think its just for beautification when its not.

    On and on the arguments go ... so no brother, things are not clear as you may think. I was wanting to discuss and debate about the reasoning of some of these prohibitions. Im not here to mock or insult! So if you feel like you would like to correct me on one or more of my points feel free to do so as i am looking to learn more about other people's
    perspectives and gain knowledge from them.


    - - - Updated - - -

    damn this double post/editing glitch thing
    1 | Likes beleiver liked this post

  23. #19
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    I am here as a Truth seeker with belief in the One God and that Mohamed and Jesus are his messengers, I love reading the Koran and my daily prayers are influenced by Islam, yet i am far from what makes a True Muslim?
    This is my opinion for what its worth.

    The world is ruled by Satan, he seeks to destroy all that is Good and Just in the world, Islam is his enemy but is perfected in such a way that it can not be destroyed , so Satan can only seek to infiltrate, divide and try to distort its Truth as he has done previously with Judaism and Christianity..This has been going on since Islams early days i am certain, and now thousand+ years later and hundred plus years after the fall of the Caliphate Satan's task in subverting the religion of Islam has never been easier..And i think this is whats happened.

    That beautiful Hadith above is clear proof Scholars have done great work in preserving the Truth as was their purpose, their purpose is to help us understand and record history not guide us to the extent they create and dictate laws..That can only come from the Koran surely? And how can anyone claim they are sovereign when we worship God as our Sovereign when he has no partners and intermediaries?

    Unless a Scholar makes it clear its his learned opinion and opinions can be wrong and to ultimately make up ones own mind then personally i would be more inclined to doubt his Truth..In my search for Truth I have read Opinions that claim to be the basis of Islamic Law that imho opinion are seriously flawed and supported by untruths, when these laws come with punishments it turns me away from Islam to the degree that i oppose it, but i refuse to give Satan that satisfaction.. Its the erroneous Scholars i actually oppose or their untruths.

    If people are causing no harm or loss to another and have respect for life and are in good health and cause no trouble then who can really judge but God as it can only be between God and the offender, and the Koran gives clear enough warning..

    Banning Music, now cmon Where did that one come from?
    Last edited by beleiver; 02-03-2018 at 12:07 AM.
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    Re: Harsh rulings in Islam? (opinions please)

    I see that is becoming more prevalent for Muslims to disrespect the scholars and think that their own opinion with regards to the religion is a better way to go. This is a grave mistake that will lead to misguidance that makes it even easier for the Shaytan. The premise that only Allah can judge disregards the very Law of Allah and His prescribed punishments for certain crimes. If you have a problem with certain punishments in the Quran and Sunnah, or think that they are barbaric and not "acceptable" by today's standard then you cannot be a Muslim. A Muslim is one who submits his will to the Will of Allah. So continue to follow your religion of "Jedi" or whatever makes you feel better about your deluded self, but don't come on a Muslim site and have the audacity to give us your worthless opinion about the religion and all of its precepts.

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