All about me: depression, love, virginity, loneliness, muslim women, dreams....

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

I agree with you; It shouldn't happen in the first place. No one is disagreeing with that. But you still haven't answered the question, when it does happen, then what??

Islam strictly forbids extramarital, premarital, and homosexual relationships. These are also considered a major sins and should never be publicized. Even a lustful gaze is considered sinful. Parents are strict as well and try to be present but they cannot be present 100% of the time. So even with all the efforts, for whatever reason, people still give in to their desires. I'm sure you've sinned before in some form, because you're not perfect, so what did you do afterwards?

If they don't have regret, they will continue to accumulate sins and it may get worse and worse.

Unfortunately there is the risk that a vicious circle is created.
I repeat my question : why should a person expect marriage before having sex if God will forgives her/his sin?

A girl who wants to wait for marriage, reading and listening to such stories, could fall into temptation. She could ask herself "If God has forgiven my friends, He will also forgive me".

In this way Islam loses credibility, but God risks to lose his supremacy.

Take me, for example: many muslim people have told me that when a Catholic converts to Islam, it is as if he born again, all sins are erased.
Following this philosophy, then I could do this: have fun with all the possible girls..but even drink, smoke, drug. In short, enjoy my life in all its transgressions.
Afterwards, convert me to Islam and say "Hey, I'm a new person! I've become pure! That's because God forgives me!".
I dont think it will be correct: losing my virginity would be like taking away something that belongs to my wife, it would be my gift to tell her that she is so special to have waited so many years.

And then, some genius, has the courage to tell me that my intentions are corrupt or that I am a pervert.

Anyway, under the religious side I dont know what could be done, but under the moral / human profile yes: simply, dont hide/fix our past.
Dont look for subterfuges to return virgins physically or do "alternative things", dont pretend to be who we arent.
It is a marriage that can last even 50-60 years.
It would be enough to talk about it serenely, look in the eyes each other, and then decide "Yes, we are compatible" or "No, we are too different".

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format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

Secondly freely talking to women about their chastity or sexual nature is absolutely forbidden as well. A girl who is open to talk to you in that manner will probably not be chaste even if she is a Muslim girl. So please keep that in mind.

Now I ask you a question: if you were a boy, how would you act?
You cant ask intimate questions, but at the same time you do not know if she is the right girl for you.

If all the Muslim girls followed the Islamic rules, what reason would I have to ask some questions? To ask about the sexual past would be stupid, useless, offensive. Because it's obvious that any girl had a boyfriend before. And what intrigues me are the married marriages: how is this topic treated between the two future spouses?

And in fact, when I read the Koran and Islamic traditions, I felt relieved: it would be enough to find a good Muslim girl (obviously a practicing) and finally I would find serenity and salvation.

But internet and Google showed me a very different reality. I've read stories that made me lose all certainty.

format_quote Originally Posted by Artic090

Unfortunately there is the risk that a vicious circle is created.
I repeat my question : why should a person expect marriage before having sex if God will forgives her/his sin?

A girl who wants to wait for marriage, reading and listening to such stories, could fall into temptation. She could ask herself "If God has forgiven my friends, He will also forgive me".

In this way Islam loses credibility, but God risks to lose his supremacy.

Take me, for example: many muslim people have told me that when a Catholic converts to Islam, it is as if he born again, all sins are erased.
Following this philosophy, then I could do this: have fun with all the possible girls..but even drink, smoke, drug. In short, enjoy my life in all its transgressions.
Afterwards, convert me to Islam and say "Hey, I'm a new person! I've become pure! That's because God forgives me!".
I dont think it will be correct: losing my virginity would be like taking away something that belongs to my wife, it would be my gift to tell her that she is so special to have waited so many years.

And then, some genius, has the courage to tell me that my intentions are corrupt or that I am a pervert.

Anyway, under the religious side I dont know what could be done, but under the moral / human profile yes: simply, dont hide/fix our past.
Dont look for subterfuges to return virgins physically or do "alternative things", dont pretend to be who we arent.
It is a marriage that can last even 50-60 years.
It would be enough to talk about it serenely, look in the eyes each other, and then decide "Yes, we are compatible" or "No, we are too different".

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Now I ask you a question: if you were a boy, how would you act?
You cant ask intimate questions, but at the same time you do not know if she is the right girl for you.

If all the Muslim girls followed the Islamic rules, what reason would I have to ask some questions? To ask about the sexual past would be stupid, useless, offensive. Because it's obvious that any girl had a boyfriend before. And what intrigues me are the married marriages: how is this topic treated between the two future spouses?

And in fact, when I read the Koran and Islamic traditions, I felt relieved: it would be enough to find a good Muslim girl (obviously a practicing) and finally I would find serenity and salvation.

But internet and Google showed me a very different reality. I've read stories that made me lose all certainty.

I personally believe that it is absolutely 100% your right to look for a virgin so long as you are one. And i would advise you to not let anyone tell you any different.The only thing that i can see you've got wrong is the concept of forgiveness in islam. Its not quite how you've described it.

First off, if a person thinks that he is sinning and continues to sin on the bases that he will repent afterwards then this will obviously not be considered as a sincere repentance (The only time it would be, is if the repentance was full of regret and grief). Regardless, even if it was accepted, that does not negate the consquence and the after affects these sin will have on the persons world affairs ... For example: if a virgin loses their virginity by choice and then sincerely regretted it, their repentance would be accepted, BUT still this individual would have LOST their right to ask for a virgin partner. So an element of consequence would still exist in their worldly affairs, even if their repentance was accepted and what not. I mean heck, even if the person does it in the halal way and loses their virginity in the halal but then wants to marry another, they dont have the right to demand for a virgin as they themselves aren't one anymore ... So its not about whether their v-card was used in the halal or haram ... onces its used, you cant demand for a virgin as well (not because its sinful to do so, but because your not qualified. However, its still ok if the individual demands a virgin when he is not ... only thing is that he probably won't find one that would accept him since he lost his, And if he does then its probably out of luck and not because he "deserves" it).

Secondly, i dont want you to be deterred away from islam because of a few judgmental comments made against you. You should know that no group on the face of this earth is free from such individuals who like to judge and whip people with their words. So dont be affected by them and let their judgments go straight through one ear and out the other

Thirdly, the reason why these individual passed some of these harsh words is because they probably didnt want you to be interested in islam solely because of your interest for a pure, virgin partner and what not. They wanted you to be interested in islam for what it mainly offers of truth and salvation, not out of world and materialistic reasons, so in a way their intentions are good. However, i personally believe that it is completely fine to have a worldly reason for your interest in islam. It may be what leads you to become a true muslim and one that is even better than those individuals themselves. Surely after what you've seen of islam's noble teaching about purity and chastity would get you interested to learn more about our beliefs and other things in it. Mayhaps this would be the opening for your heart towards islam

Lastly, i would like to repeat that it is completely 100% your right to ask for a virgin and that there is nothing wrong with that. However, i just wanted to direct your attention towards the fact that purity and chastity isnt a reliable measuring unit of how successful your marriage towards that chaste person would be, nor is it a reliable measure of how likely they are to be satisfied with you. Also, dont put great value on a thing that is not meant to have the amount of value you are giving it, because if you lose your virginity (even in the halal) but for some reason need to marry another, you wont be too heartbroken that you cant get a virgin like before.
Again, im NOT saying that virginity is not an indication of how likely she is to be satisfied and loving towards you, instead what im trying to say is that is it not 100% reliable indicator. I mean, i too dont intend to marry a non virgin as i know that virgins are much more accepting, loving, and more loyal towards first partners. However, if i find one (non-v) that truly loves me more than any virgin then ofc i would marry her in a heartbeat <3.

In essence, what you seek is totally reasonable and acceptable to ask for. However, putting too much value on that factor maybe a bit dangerous ... Anyways bro, hope you find what your looking for SALAM!

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format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

well, that's ten mins i wont be getting back

hhahaha xD ... But to be honest though, he does have a fair point. I wouldnt want to marry a person who looks like a pious girl but is secretly a hoe. And when you look at the world today and whats happening in it, more and more girls are starting to adopt this 2 faced life

format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO

I personally believe that it is absolutely 100% your right to look for a virgin so long as you are one. And i would advise you to not let anyone tell you any different.The only thing that i can see you've got wrong is the concept of forgiveness in islam. Its not quite how you've described it.

First off, if a person thinks that he is sinning and continues to sin on the bases that he will repent afterwards then this will obviously not be considered as a sincere repentance (The only time it would be, is if the repentance was full of regret and grief). Regardless, even if it was accepted, that does not negate the consquence and the after affects these sin will have on the persons world affairs ...

Hi friend, thank you for your support words. I share what you said.
Regarding the "Islamic forgiveness" I wanted to specify my thoughts through the involution of the Catholic religion.

Up to 50-60 years ago the Catholic religion was very much similar to the Islamic religion (especially in Southern Italy). The traditions regarding sentimental and sexual life were very rigid:

1) Women wore a veil over their heads and long robes;
2) In church women and men could not sit next to each other;
3) The girls always had to go out accompanied by mothers, aunts, grandmothers;
4) A boy could not go out with a girl. If he wanted to go with her, he had to ask her father for permission;
5) Obviously premarital sex was not allowed, a girl who was no longer a virgin seriously risked being alone for life ...


What happened?
The sexual revolution of '68, the advance of feminism, the advent of technology has changed people's habits.
The Catholic religion has undergone strong changes, Catholic people have rebelled against certain positions and have begun to transgress under the motto "Jesus forgives all, Jesus never will judge you about your sexual life"....

Everything is changed, especially under the sexual aspect. Everyone is free to do what he wants, the value of virginity is absolutely lost, divorces have increased dramatically, having children out of wedlock is very normal.

If even in Islam the idea spreads that "whatever you do, Allah forgives everyone", who will believe more in the value of virginity and chastity? How many men and how many Muslim women will be pure at marriage?
Islam is characterized by the strong value of purity (as was also the Catholic religion), but we do not risk distorting everything?

It is the people who should follow religion, it is not religion that has to adapt to people.

format_quote Originally Posted by Artic090

Hi friend, thank you for your support words. I share what you said.
Regarding the "Islamic forgiveness" I wanted to specify my thoughts through the involution of the Catholic religion.

Up to 50-60 years ago the Catholic religion was very much similar to the Islamic religion (especially in Southern Italy). The traditions regarding sentimental and sexual life were very rigid:

1) Women wore a veil over their heads and long robes;
2) In church women and men could not sit next to each other;
3) The girls always had to go out accompanied by mothers, aunts, grandmothers;
4) A boy could not go out with a girl. If he wanted to go with her, he had to ask her father for permission;
5) Obviously premarital sex was not allowed, a girl who was no longer a virgin seriously risked being alone for life ...


What happened?
The sexual revolution of '68, the advance of feminism, the advent of technology has changed people's habits.
The Catholic religion has undergone strong changes, Catholic people have rebelled against certain positions and have begun to transgress under the motto "Jesus forgives all, Jesus never will judge you about your sexual life"....

Everything is changed, especially under the sexual aspect. Everyone is free to do what he wants, the value of virginity is absolutely lost, divorces have increased dramatically, having children out of wedlock is very normal.

If even in Islam the idea spreads that "whatever you do, Allah forgives everyone", who will believe more in the value of virginity and chastity? How many men and how many Muslim women will be pure at marriage?
Islam is characterized by the strong value of purity (as was also the Catholic religion), but we do not risk distorting everything?

It is the people who should follow religion, it is not religion that has to adapt to people.

majority of girls is still virgin in our society in contrast to western society.

the right person wont lie, but i think what most are saying, we hope you do find someone who has never been married and who is chaste, not touched yet by no man, as agree you have every right as you yourself have kept your self pure.. there are people out there who havnt fallen for the trend intimacy before marriage.. and have similar level of faith as yourself.... but you may find a sister who before even coming to islam, may have had relationships that may be your compatible partner that you may be missing out on because you are so focused on if she has been touched... again purity means a woman who is loyal committed, faithful and respectful, may have had a relationship, but in a pure way, ...so you may need to open your horizons, also look into these characteristics .. who and what she is now, is what is important.. perfection in the way we think doesnt exist... the prophet married, and was pure, chaste himself, a divorcee who was married before.. what we are saying dont limit your own choices, because you may just miss the One who is who actually the character your also desiring, which is far more important, due to your perception of preference.. (virgin) and i do agree with all who have said, do not come to islam, if it is to marry a chaste woman, but rather because you have recognised that islam is the religion you feel inclined towards because you have recognised its truth and know it is the God you love.. when we come any religion if we do it for a human being... and that human being disappoints us, because we attach our faith to them.. that faith is not based on God.. but a weak faulty human being.. as we are not absolute angels... we are human beings..so if that relationship doesnt work, will you then turn your back on Allaah.. ? i think these are crucial questions to ponder on.. and in your heart know, you will be tested to see wht you say, and we infact truly hold true.. becomes manifested in our reality.. so do take good time, don't rush,or panic.. keep religion first in your mind and heart, and marriage second... as people can get married later, but there is only ONE God, irrelevant how people may perceive HIm.. its a big step..i have christian friends, who i do love, because they are searching for truth and great people, believers in my eyes.. as the level of spiritually and expansion is there.. just have been effected so much by media and what the controversies create, that have them questioning the cultural islam.. but they know God in fact better than most muslims, (because sadly we are going through the same issues, that people of the book also went through, but we have forgotten that messages were for us prewarning what takes place..when we follow blindly without using our intellect and reasoning) i would say please do meditate deeply, as everyone here is genuinely wanting the best for you... and can forsee if you come to accepting islam based on wanting to marrying a pakistani lady who is chaste.. and if it doesnt work, what does that mean for you? these are hypothetical questions but needed ones to be asked so you can check your own truth/ faith.. best wishes with whatever you decide..

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

What you will do if you don't find a virgin girl..?
Will you not marry..?

Brother, how could I marry a girl who is not compatible with me? I believe that marriage should be based on two people who have ideals, characters and similar values.
I cant risk marrying a girl I could not love as she deserves to be loved. I dont want to suffer and make other people suffer.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

majority of girls is still virgin in our society in contrast to western society.

This is the biggest problem!
I dont belong to your society. I live in the west.
If I had lived in some Muslim country (Morocco, Tunisia, Iran, Pakistan ...) I would have had more possibilities.
First, I could ask my parents and relatives for advice to help me find a good girl (which, as tradition, often happens in those countries), and then I would have the "mathematical certainty" that sooner or later I would find the right girl for me. In short, it is true that even in conservative Muslim countries things are changing (unfortunately), but it is also true that there are still so many girls linked to religion who dream of a romantic and traditional style wedding.

Here in Italy I could easily find a Muslim girl. I repeat, Muslim. But really a practitioner?
I read on the internet testimonies about Muslim girls living in the US, Canada, the UK and even here in Europe ... I read stories that really made me feel bad. And they were all practitioners, and not Muslims of birth or family traditions.

This is why I began to think: "If I had to meet a Muslim girl, I have to consider that she probably acquired Western ideals and mentality". In addition, I dont have references, I dont exactly how and where to meet Muslim girls and to choose who one is right for me.

What to say?
I'm running away from Western/Christian reality, I discovered Islam and knocked on its door. Nobody is going to open me. And I feel as if behind that door there were the same ghosts from which I escaped...

format_quote Originally Posted by Artic090

Brother, how could I marry a girl who is not compatible with me? I believe that marriage should be based on two people who have ideals, characters and similar values.
I cant risk marrying a girl I could not love as she deserves to be loved. I dont want to suffer and make other people suffer.



This is the biggest problem!
I dont belong to your society. I live in the west.
If I had lived in some Muslim country (Morocco, Tunisia, Iran, Pakistan ...) I would have had more possibilities.
First, I could ask my parents and relatives for advice to help me find a good girl (which, as tradition, often happens in those countries), and then I would have the "mathematical certainty" that sooner or later I would find the right girl for me. In short, it is true that even in conservative Muslim countries things are changing (unfortunately), but it is also true that there are still so many girls linked to religion who dream of a romantic and traditional style wedding.

Here in Italy I could easily find a Muslim girl. I repeat, Muslim. But really a practitioner?
I read on the internet testimonies about Muslim girls living in the US, Canada, the UK and even here in Europe ... I read stories that really made me feel bad. And they were all practitioners, and not Muslims of birth or family traditions.

This is why I began to think: "If I had to meet a Muslim girl, I have to consider that she probably acquired Western ideals and mentality". In addition, I dont have references, I dont exactly how and where to meet Muslim girls and to choose who one is right for me.

What to say?
I'm running away from Western/Christian reality, I discovered Islam and knocked on its door. Nobody is going to open me. And I feel as if behind that door there were the same ghosts from which I escaped...

Bro, I advise you to visit any masjid/Islamic centre and put your issue before them

format_quote Originally Posted by Artic090

Brother, how could I marry a girl who is not compatible with me? I believe that marriage should be based on two people who have ideals, characters and similar values.
I cant risk marrying a girl I could not love as she deserves to be loved. I dont want to suffer and make other people suffer.



This is the biggest problem!
I dont belong to your society. I live in the west.
If I had lived in some Muslim country (Morocco, Tunisia, Iran, Pakistan ...) I would have had more possibilities.
First, I could ask my parents and relatives for advice to help me find a good girl (which, as tradition, often happens in those countries), and then I would have the "mathematical certainty" that sooner or later I would find the right girl for me. In short, it is true that even in conservative Muslim countries things are changing (unfortunately), but it is also true that there are still so many girls linked to religion who dream of a romantic and traditional style wedding.

Here in Italy I could easily find a Muslim girl. I repeat, Muslim. But really a practitioner?
I read on the internet testimonies about Muslim girls living in the US, Canada, the UK and even here in Europe ... I read stories that really made me feel bad. And they were all practitioners, and not Muslims of birth or family traditions.

This is why I began to think: "If I had to meet a Muslim girl, I have to consider that she probably acquired Western ideals and mentality". In addition, I dont have references, I dont exactly how and where to meet Muslim girls and to choose who one is right for me.

What to say?
I'm running away from Western/Christian reality, I discovered Islam and knocked on its door. Nobody is going to open me. And I feel as if behind that door there were the same ghosts from which I escaped...

Lol not morocco. Im moroccan and im horrified at whats happening there. Girls freely date smoke etc there( same for the men sadly) and prayer seems to be neglected entirely by some.

format_quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1

Lol not morocco. Im moroccan and im horrified at whats happening there. Girls freely date smoke etc there( same for the men sadly) and prayer seems to be neglected entirely by some.

More or less similar situation is in several other Muslim countries as well

format_quote Originally Posted by Artic090

You are right. Unfortunatelly, you are right.

I heard (and read) not very good things about the situation in Morocco. I was shocked about girls with hijabs, which should fully represent the value of purity (hijab should be a guarantee seal for women who decide to wear it, otherwise why should they wear it?)
In any case, I believe that the situation in Morocco is the same than other North African countries such as Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt: did European air influence? Just see also Turkey, for example.

We also add that the Iranian girls are influenced by the Zoroastrian religion and a still Westernized mentality (up to 40 years ago Iran was a "semi-European" country for its lifestyle), the Pakistani girls influenced by a Hindu mentality (very open on these aspects)... in short, hard times for boys who want a pure girl.

Seriously, I wonder ... Where are the parents? Where are the brothers who should watch over the sisters? Where are the "wali"?
I also wonder if Muslim men still want to marry a "pure" wife and if Muslim women also want to marry a "pure" husband, because seeing this kind of behavior, it seems that nobody cares!

Especially the boys, when they manage to have a girlfriend, they should think "And if the same happens to my sister, I would be happy about this?"

All over the muslim world stuff is happening sadly. Of course there will be plenty of good people in these countries too though.