Hi all. I am or was a Muslim but slowly and slowly feel like losing my faith. Why? How come Allah will send some people to heaven just cause of kalimah but a Jew or a Christian or atheist who spent their entire life in suffering to help others will go to hell?
Doesn't make sense
Dear brothers. Thank you for your time and patience till now. Most importantly I get you. I get it.
I'll formulate a proper reply to all who answered my request for help tomorrow.(including the one person who sent a personal message, I can't reply to you brother since am not a full member yet) And by reply I mean thanks not more arguments.
Thank you once again
Hi all. I am or was a Muslim but slowly and slowly feel like losing my faith. Why? How come Allah will send some people to heaven just cause of kalimah but a Jew or a Christian or atheist who spent their entire life in suffering to help others will go to hell?
Doesn't make sense
I just thought I'd try and add to the conversation...
A learned sage that I admire mentioned that people who question the justness and compassion of Allah based on the evil – both real and perceived – they see in the world actually have a very high opinion of Allah. In other words, they don’t think that a “just and loving” supreme being would allow for such things to happen. Based on this understanding, a Muslim should temper defensive reactions to such questions and comments and focus on attempting to answer them in a genuinely caring way. That’s not to dismiss, however, the person who has demonstrated nefarious intentions.
It can be hard to come to terms with things we don’t necessarily agree with. One possible way to cope is to contemplate the possibility that we may not fully understand the disagreeable situation(s). For a Muslim, who believes in the truthfulness of Muhammad , the incident of Musa and Khidr is a prime example of how outwardly disagreeable events become acceptable once the reality of what’s going on is made known.
Some may scoff at the “belief in the truthfulness of Muhammad ” part I mentioned. That’s understandable. The Muslim Ummah is in a state of rot. Based on the principles of how Islam was – and is still being – transmitted, the testimony of most Muslims in the world would not be accepted as reliable. That’s an unfortunate reality we face in this day and age and it's not surprising to find sincere seekers of the truth becoming despondent. I’ve been fortunate to have been introduced to people who, in my assessment, are truthful and continue to carry on the tradition of authentic Islamic scholarship and practice.
In light of the above, the punishments mentioned in Islam are meant to be deterrents. Implementing them are not as easy as we see in some “Muslim” countries. There is a distinction between being technically Muslim and the proper following of Islam – which you will not find in any “Muslim” country.
Additionally, condemning someone to eternal punishment is Allah’s jurisdiction. Yes, the warnings are there. Yes, Muslims are ordered to obey Allah’s commandments. Yes, disobeying Allah – including kufr – is detrimental to oneself and society. No, getting eternal punishment is not a black and white affair when it comes to Allah’s judgment. Please note that this is not a blank check to do whatever we want. Allah has created us to listen to what He wants us to do.
We need to sincerely reflect on what we can and cannot control along with the opportunities for guidance that may have been provided to us. Allah will not hold us accountable for things that were beyond our control. And be sure, when the time comes, you will only be worried about yourself - just like a defendant in court is solely focused on the outcome of his or her trial.
Bro, When we listen the lectures or read the books of pious people the light of their piety is transmitted to our heart, likewise when we listen or read those people who're drowned in shirk and kufr, darkness of their sins is also transmitted to our heart.
So we must keep in touch with pious and righteous ppl; and must stay away from wrong people
The Muslim will not be punished for the waswas that comes from the Shaytan or from his own nafs, so long as he does not speak of it or act upon it. But he is commanded to resist it, and if he neglects to resist it and gives in to it, then he will be punished for that neglect.
Dont believe everything on the internet. If you have weswes seek refuge with Allah and ignore these thougths....asalam wa3alikoum
Sources of Waswas and Accountability - islamqa.info
Id like to know if there is a way to distinguish the waswasah insinuating whispers that is coming from the shaytanand the waswasah coming from the nafs souland ...
Damn! The amount of arrogance in some of these posts are disgusting! ... Im sorry you had to read through some of these posts
@lost_one
... La hawla walaa kuwata illa bellah.
Brother, you have it wrong. The thing is that ... i dont think most people realise that you are asking about people who haven't got an actual legit chance at knowing what islam in its true form is (the form of peace and how its a way of life).
Your right in saying that those people shouldnt suffer hell fire because it becomes injustices if they were never given a proper chance at becoming muslim.
Your right to say that it is unjust to throw people into hell only because they were raised in a non muslim family and had to adopt their parent's religion.
Your right in assuming its unjust to throw all non muslims whether good or bad into hellfire just based on their religion or kalimah.
There are many cases like this such as the people in north korea who have almost zero access to the real world and islam, isolated tribes in africa, children and babies who haven't been born yet, etc ... These people will not be judged like you and i. We actually got the chance to learn about islam and see what its about. How can we ever compare them to us? its not right. However, the people who actually deserve hellfire are those who have seen the miracles with their own eyes, become convinced that islam is the truth yet still choose to not follow it out of stubbornness and arrogance. How do those people deserve anything but hellfire? those who mislead the people below them astray and away from the path of Allah? Those who killed the prophets like the Israelites?
Have a look at these videos, I think they answer the gist of your question.
Damn! The amount of arrogance in some of these posts are disgusting! ... Im sorry you had to read through some of these posts
@lost_one
... La hawla walaa kuwata illa bellah.
Brother, you have it wrong. The thing is that ... i dont think most people realise that you are asking about people who haven't got an actual legit chance at knowing what islam in its true form is (the form of peace and how its a way of life).
Your right in saying that those people shouldnt suffer hell fire because it becomes injustices if they were never given a proper chance at becoming muslim.
Your right to say that it is unjust to throw people into hell only because they were raised in a non muslim family and had to adopt their parent's religion.
Your right in assuming its unjust to throw all non muslims whether good or bad into hellfire just based on their religion or kalimah.
There are many cases like this such as the people in north korea who have almost zero access to the real world and islam, isolated tribes in africa, children and babies who haven't been born yet, etc ... These people will not be judged like you and i. We actually got the chance to learn about islam and see what its about. How can we ever compare them to us? its not right. However, the people who actually deserve hellfire are those who have seen the miracles with their own eyes, become convinced that islam is the truth yet still choose to not follow it out of stubbornness and arrogance. How do those people deserve anything but hellfire? those who mislead the people below them astray and away from the path of Allah? Those who killed the prophets like the Israelites?
Have a look at these videos, I think they answer the gist of your question.
@ChosenTCO
That is exactly what I have been saying. I also mentioned some examples of people or groups of people who never got the chance to know what is Islam about and still can be considered as believers.
these people do not know Islam, they may not have heard about the prophets, and books, but still have a chance to a place in Heaven. However, these people still need to believe in God. Believíng in one God is already intrinsically in us. We do not need anything to be able to believe in one God. again, faith as much as a mustard grain is enough to earn a place in heaven.
Of course you still have the group of people who are mentally not able to think about religion...like small children, and mentally challenged people. Those people of course are not just thrown in Hell just because they had no chance to believe in God.
- - - Updated - - -
@ChosenTCO
That is exactly what I have been saying. I also mentioned some examples of people or groups of people who never got the chance to know what is Islam about and still can be considered as believers.
these people do not know Islam, they may not have heard about the prophets, and books, but still have a chance to a place in Heaven. However, these people still need to believe in God. Believíng in one God is already intrinsically in us. We do not need anything to be able to believe in one God. again, faith as much as a mustard grain is enough to earn a place in heaven.
Of course you still have the group of people who are mentally not able to think about religion...like small children, and mentally challenged people. Those people of course are not just thrown in Hell just because they had no chance to believe in God.
Dear brothers. Thank you for your time and patience till now. Most importantly I get you. I get it.
I'll formulate a proper reply to all who answered my request for help tomorrow.(including the one person who sent a personal message, I can't reply to you brother since am not a full member yet) And by reply I mean thanks not more arguments.
Thank you once again
Sorry for being rude or arrogant in my previous posts brother, i honestly idk. I apologise brother if i caused offence.
@ChosenTCO
That is exactly what I have been saying. I also mentioned some examples of people or groups of people who never got the chance to know what is Islam about and still can be considered as believers.
these people do not know Islam, they may not have heard about the prophets, and books, but still have a chance to a place in Heaven. However, these people still need to believe in God. Believíng in one God is already intrinsically in us. We do not need anything to be able to believe in one God. again, faith as much as a mustard grain is enough to earn a place in heaven.
Of course you still have the group of people who are mentally not able to think about religion...like small children, and mentally challenged people. Those people of course are not just thrown in Hell just because they had no chance to believe in God.
- - - Updated - - -
@ChosenTCO
That is exactly what I have been saying. I also mentioned some examples of people or groups of people who never got the chance to know what is Islam about and still can be considered as believers.
these people do not know Islam, they may not have heard about the prophets, and books, but still have a chance to a place in Heaven. However, these people still need to believe in God. Believíng in one God is already intrinsically in us. We do not need anything to be able to believe in one God. again, faith as much as a mustard grain is enough to earn a place in heaven.
Of course you still have the group of people who are mentally not able to think about religion...like small children, and mentally challenged people. Those people of course are not just thrown in Hell just because they had no chance to believe in God.
Mentally retarded adult and children of disbelievers may be among people of a'raaf but those didn't get the msg of Islam will be considered as believers is questionable.
Do you see any evidence in Quran and sunnah explicitly clarified this issue..?
Mentally retarded adult and children of disbelievers may be among people of a'raaf but those didn't get the msg of Islam will be considered as believers is questionable.
Do you see any evidence in Quran and sunnah explicitly clarified this issue..?
To be honost, no I do not.
I do not have evidence for this claim, but I think this is just logic, and Islam is all about logic.
It is hard to imagine that such people still exist.
I have family living in a small village in West Turkey. until 15 years ago, no one had a pc over there. they used to trade with each other fruits and vegetables. for meat, they would hunt. they only needed money to pay for clothes, electricity and fuel for tractors etc.
only some of them had a TV. the nearest small city was a one hour drive. They did not have much contact with the rest of the world.
imagine you are born in such a village. you have a daily duty to take care of the crops on your land. your fruit and vegetables, you can trade for something else, or you can sell on a local market. you do not have internet, only a tv and newspapers.
there is no libary. you happened to live in a non-muslim community. how much chance do you have to learn about Islam? the only thing you see on TV about Islam is when there is a terroris act somewhere on the news. would you then consider Islam as the true religion? would you consider to investigate what is Islam truely about?
what you can do, is to question yourself whether the religion in your village makes sense to you or not...and if not, you can disbelieve...but to look for an alternative? where would you start? your religious leader would not advise you towards other religions...instead, he would lie or try to convince of his own religion. So you know something is not right but what?
and then you die...then what? Hell?
I think the situation of those people is not much different than of the situation of children and mentally challenged people.
If such villages existed in west turkey 15 years ago...then we can assume the world is still full with such locations where people do not have the opportunity to a little investigation about religion.
In Africa there still are a lot of people who do not have shelter, food or water...forget about tv's, newspapers, internet, etc.
even then, a lot of them are illiterate...how on Earth would they start their investigation?
the ability of reading and writing is very natural for us...but not everyone has this ability developed. these people are fully dependant on their superiors or religious leaders if they even have any.
what options do they have in life other than questioning their own religion? they can only feel that there is something wrong with it...but not much more.
Thank goodness most of those African countries are already Muslim because of the Ottoman empire...but still, there are still locations where Islam is not present.
Hi all. I am or was a Muslim but slowly and slowly feel like losing my faith. Why? How come Allah will send some people to heaven just cause of kalimah but a Jew or a Christian or atheist who spent their entire life in suffering to help others will go to hell?
Doesn't make sense
All kuffar will go to hell. The question is, are all non-muslims considered kuffar? The answer is, no they are not all kuffar.
For someone to be a kafir he first has to acknowledge that islam is the true religion of Allah, then still refuses to accept it. This is what defines a kafir.
What about the non-believers who never heard of islam or even heard about it but was deterred away by the outward look that most westerners have about islam? Are those considered kuffar. The answer is no they are not considered kuffar, therefore even non believers still have a chance to earn Allah's mercy and enter jannah by His grace.
If you speak arabic and understand the language, here are few videos that explain the definition of what true kufr really means ...
All kuffar will go to hell. The question is, are all non-muslims considered kuffar? The answer is, no they are not all kuffar.
For someone to be a kafir he first has to acknowledge that islam is the true religion of Allah, then still refuses to accept it. This is what defines a kafir.
What about the non-believers who never heard of islam or even heard about it but was deterred away by the outward look that most westerners have about islam? Are those considered kuffar. The answer is no they are not considered kuffar, therefore even non believers still have a chance to earn Allah's mercy and enter jannah by His grace.
If you speak arabic and understand the language, here are few videos that explain the definition of what true kufr really means ...
Sorry for being rude or arrogant in my previous posts brother, i honestly idk. I apologise brother if i caused offence.
I wasnt referring to your posts in mine. Sorry if i caused any misunderstanding for you. From your posts, I know you sometimes can get really passionate about the things you talk about and it may seem to be an aggressive tone, but i for one totally understand that you dont mean it . I know because i have family members who are just like that ... and even i used to be like that
- - - Updated - - -
format_quote Originally Posted by Brighten
Hey thanks for this post bro I learned something.
I dont know who exactly are you referring to but im glad you learned something ... even if it wasnt from me.
To be honost, no I do not.
I do not have evidence for this claim, but I think this is just logic, and Islam is all about logic.
It is hard to imagine that such people still exist.
I have family living in a small village in West Turkey. until 15 years ago, no one had a pc over there. they used to trade with each other fruits and vegetables. for meat, they would hunt. they only needed money to pay for clothes, electricity and fuel for tractors etc.
only some of them had a TV. the nearest small city was a one hour drive. They did not have much contact with the rest of the world.
imagine you are born in such a village. you have a daily duty to take care of the crops on your land. your fruit and vegetables, you can trade for something else, or you can sell on a local market. you do not have internet, only a tv and newspapers.
there is no libary. you happened to live in a non-muslim community. how much chance do you have to learn about Islam? the only thing you see on TV about Islam is when there is a terroris act somewhere on the news. would you then consider Islam as the true religion? would you consider to investigate what is Islam truely about?
what you can do, is to question yourself whether the religion in your village makes sense to you or not...and if not, you can disbelieve...but to look for an alternative? where would you start? your religious leader would not advise you towards other religions...instead, he would lie or try to convince of his own religion. So you know something is not right but what?
and then you die...then what? Hell?
I think the situation of those people is not much different than of the situation of children and mentally challenged people.
If such villages existed in west turkey 15 years ago...then we can assume the world is still full with such locations where people do not have the opportunity to a little investigation about religion.
In Africa there still are a lot of people who do not have shelter, food or water...forget about tv's, newspapers, internet, etc.
even then, a lot of them are illiterate...how on Earth would they start their investigation?
the ability of reading and writing is very natural for us...but not everyone has this ability developed. these people are fully dependant on their superiors or religious leaders if they even have any.
what options do they have in life other than questioning their own religion? they can only feel that there is something wrong with it...but not much more.
Thank goodness most of those African countries are already Muslim because of the Ottoman empire...but still, there are still locations where Islam is not present.
format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
All kuffar will go to hell. The question is, are all non-muslims considered kuffar? The answer is, no they are not all kuffar.
For someone to be a kafir he first has to acknowledge that islam is the true religion of Allah, then still refuses to accept it. This is what defines a kafir.
What about the non-believers who never heard of islam or even heard about it but was deterred away by the outward look that most westerners have about islam? Are those considered kuffar. The answer is no they are not considered kuffar, therefore even non believers still have a chance to earn Allah's mercy and enter jannah by His grace.
If you speak arabic and understand the language, here are few videos that explain the definition of what true kufr really means ...
All kuffar will go to hell. The question is, are all non-muslims considered kuffar? The answer is, no they are not all kuffar.
For someone to be a kafir he first has to acknowledge that islam is the true religion of Allah, then still refuses to accept it. This is what defines a kafir.
What about the non-believers who never heard of islam or even heard about it but was deterred away by the outward look that most westerners have about islam? Are those considered kuffar. The answer is no they are not considered kuffar, therefore even non believers still have a chance to earn Allah's mercy and enter jannah by His grace.
If you speak arabic and understand the language, here are few videos that explain the definition of what true kufr really means ...
Are we really authorised to decide about them devoid of any evidence from kitab and sunnah...?
you are asking the wrong questions bro.
We are most certainly not authorized to decide about them...but we are not deciding anything.
We are just discussing what might happen to those people and we use our logic and reasoning for it.
Allah has not given us the power of reasoning for nothing...you can use that too besides Quran and sunnah.
The only one who decides over their destiny is Allah of course...
I wasnt referring to your posts in mine. Sorry if i caused any misunderstanding for you. From your posts, I know you sometimes can get really passionate about the things you talk about and it may seem to be an aggressive tone, but i for one totally understand that you dont mean it . I know because i have family members who are just like that ... and even i used to be like that
- - - Updated - - -
I dont know who exactly are you referring to but im glad you learned something ... even if it wasnt from me.
Yea i was meant to tag rhw op in this but i kinda forgot loool. Thanks thooo
you are asking the wrong questions bro.
We are most certainly not authorized to decide about them...but we are not deciding anything.
We are just discussing what might happen to those people and we use our logic and reasoning for it.
Allah has not given us the power of reasoning for nothing...you can use that too besides Quran and sunnah.
The only one who decides over their destiny is Allah of course...
Do these people have no reasoning power to ponder over the existence of their Lord...?
Suppose someone living in a remote area involves in any activity which is a crime according to law of the land he is unaware thereof.
Will he be exonerated by the court for not knowing the law...?
If we begin to drive the rulings based on our reasoning power, then this deen will become a toy that everyone will play with
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Array
cinnamonrolls1 liked this post
Hi all. I am or was a Muslim but slowly and slowly feel like losing my faith. Why? How come Allah will send some people to heaven just cause of kalimah but a Jew or a Christian or atheist who spent their entire life in suffering to help others will go to hell?, the incident of Musa
and Khidr
. I know because i have family members who are just like that ... and even i used to be like that
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks