5281: Can she withhold herself from her husband who does not pray?
Can a husband or wife withhold oneself from his or her partner if they do not pray? In other words, is it permissible to demand that your partner pray in order for you to give yourself to them?
Published Date: 2000-02-03
Praise be to Allaah.
Indeed it is obligatory for the woman (in this situation) to withhold herself from that intimate relationship, and the opposite also applies [i.e., a man should withhold himself from his wife if she does not pray]. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“… Likewise hold not the disbelieving women as wives…” [al-Muntahanah 60:10]
It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to stay with a man who does not pray at all or does not pray most of the time; she has to leave him and not stay with him, because he is a kaafir who has gone beyond the pale of Islam.
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by Zzz_
You tell this fact to cultural Muslims, especially from the subcontinent and they will cal you a "wahabi" and yet most of them do not pray. They say Islam has to be "in the heart" (never mind practicing it) and everything will be ok.
Brother, why are you so obsessed with the subcontinent
There are also many Western, Turkish and Arab people who claim that.
As for the disbelief of somebody who does not pray, most scholars have said that he is in a state of major sinning - but still in the folds of Islam. The Hanbali scholar Ibn Qudamah al-Maqdisi has explained this in al-Mughni, saying that most fuqaha, including Imam Abu Hanifah, Malik and Shafii, share this opinion.
And [there is a share for] those who came after them, saying, "Our Lord, forgive us and our brothers who preceded us in faith and put not in our hearts [any] resentment toward those who have believed. Our Lord, indeed You are Kind and Merciful." (Surat al-Hashr, 10)
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
How is it that it is not allowed for a muslim man to be intimate with his muslim wife just because she is not praying?
Think about it, if a man is allowed to marry and have intimate relations with women of the book such as christian or jewish women who dont practice the islamic prayer, why would he not be allowed to have intimate relations with a muslim woman just because she doesnt pray?
Seems contradicting to me. I dont think that it would automatically make u a disbeliever if you dont pray.
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
1st
A) Renew your shahada (I do that everyday. I am not saying you re a kafir here. It is not me to degree who is Kafir or not. I am saying renew your shahada as a form of habit and practice) everyday.
B) Do all your obligatory prayer and make sure you do not miss a single one at all
In the end, the most important thing in the world is to die Muslim. That is my dream in life. That is what I want in life. Is to die a Muslim. If you do all your prayer and istigfar and you almost see paradise in front of you and at the end of your deathbed you disbelieve because you failed at the end does it matter then for all your prayers? In the end you are going to hellfire. And if a person is a kafir all his or her life never prayed ones and before he or she dies enters Islam and dies with shahada in the end the person enter paradise. YES YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR PRAYER. PRAYER IS OBLIGATORY and part of your life as is breathing in and out is part of your life. You must pray ALL YOUR FIVE PRAYERS, not FOUR, not three AND NOT ONE but all FIVE OF THEM (I need to make sure never to miss fajir prayer.)....and it is obligatory to every single human being born here actually and so is fasting, so is hajj and so is zakaat. Those are the five pillars of Islam must be fulfilled in order to be a Muslim, no if's or butts. However, do not forget it is only Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) who degree who is a believer and who is not. Unless the person openly disbelieves by denying or doing kufir ...be careful in throwing the word kafir into a brother or sister's face. Doesn't change the fact you HAVE TO PRAY all your five prayers and YOU MUST TAKE prayer serious more serious than a stroke, heart attack or even child custody...more serious than wealth or your health...more serious than anything this world offers to you. Do not let this world take you astray from the right path because this world is nothing but an illusion. A dream. And only when you die do you really wake up.
Last edited by xboxisdead; 04-20-2018 at 09:14 PM.
I find it hard to believe some of us still use this extremist website to resolve their daily islamic affairs.
Just before i even get pass the 3rd paragraph and they're already calling for the execution of fellow muslims who happen to believe that the 5 daily prayers in islam isn't an obligation?!
In a way, a person who chooses to regard the 5 obligatory daily prayers as non obligatory despite being shown proof, can be considered a (minor) kafir, but NOT in terms of monotheism or the general message (risaala) of islam. So he can still be considered a muslim. Just not a practicing one. And in terms of whether a spouse can be intimate with their partner who doesnt practice the 5 daily prayers, well id argue that their still muslim even if they dont pray, so whats the problem?
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by Zzz_
so now you have the scholarly qualifications to deem which fatwas are acceptable and which are subjective?
Tell me bro, what credentials do you have that puts above the scholars?
al-Muntahanah 60:10
''you who believe, when believing women (abandon the enemy and) ask for asylum with you, you shall test them. GOD is fully aware of their belief. Once you establish that they are believers, you shall not return them to the disbelievers. They are not lawful to remain married to them, nor shall the disbelievers be allowed to marry them. Give back the dowries that the disbelievers have paid. You commit no error by marrying them, so long as you pay them their due dowries. Do not keep disbelieving wives(if they wish to join the enemy). You may ask them for the dowry you had paid, and they may ask for what they paid. This isGOD's rule; He rules among you.GODis Omniscient, Most Wise.''
the verse has nothing to do with the topic but the mufti used this verse to prove Muslim who aren't punctual in praying salah as kafir and deprived them of Islam.
“… Likewise hold not the disbelieving women as wives…” [al-Muntahanah 60:10]
It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to stay with a man who does not pray at all or does not pray most of the time;she has to leave him and not stay with him, because he is a kaafir who has gone beyond the pale of Islam.''
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
Also, i dont know if you have read some of their very controversial statements and fatwas but i have, and i can tell you they're bad ... really really bad!
I wont post anything about it here but if you would like i could private message you and show you just how extreme and irrational these guys really are ...
''The first group narrated that there was consensus based on the apparent meaning of the texts, of which no one disputes the soundness, and on the words of Ibn Shaqeeq and Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh, and so on.
The second group narrated that there was consensus on the basis of what they saw of the actions of the ummah in all times and places.
If either of these two groups had been convinced of the other’s claim that there was consensus, and had agreed that it was well-founded, then they would have gone along with them. But the problem in this case was that neither group accepted the evidence of the other.''
Both groups claim of consensus.
How is it possible...?
Both groups deny each other.
Q: Then, why the opinion of a particular group can be applied as the final verdict....?
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
Surah 64.
Mutual Disillusion,
Haggling
1. Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare the Praises and Glory of Allah. to Him belongs dominion, and to Him belongs praise: and He has power over all things.
2. It is He Who has created you; and of you are some that are nonbelievers, and some that are Believers: and Allah sees well all that ye do.
Quran 64:2
There is a difference between Islam and eemaan.
Islam is not the antonym of kufr - Eemaan is. (Refer to Quran ch.64 v2)
Islaam is a set of disciplines practiced to safeguard the eemaan and general well-being of society. Yet deeds alone cannot take a person to paradise, nor can the saying: "god" is in my heart so everything shall be overlooked".
14. The desert Arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to Allah,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
15. Only those are Believers who have believed in Allah and His Messenger, and have never since doubted, but have striven with their belongings and their persons in the Cause of Allah: Such are the sincere ones.
16. Say: "What! Will ye instruct Allah about your religion? But Allah knows all that is in the heavens and on earth: He has full knowledge of all things.
Islam is a set of physical actions and laws prescribed for believers in Allah and the last day and there were many who claimed to be "Muslims" who didn't really have faith in Allah and hated what He has revealed due to the restrictions they felt were a result of the wise guidelines, exhortations, and prohibitions which the islamic state was actually implementing in reality.
They paid the zakah and prayed whilst the Prophet was alive, opposed him secretly, plotted treachery in secret, and then apostasized at the earliest opportunity, such people still exist.
They are the people who attempt to flatter Allah and the believers with the song from their lips and the dance on the mat whilst their heart is so far away that they don't really care whether it's the truth or not - a notion of inherited ownership.
Then there is another category who believe in Allah and the last day, dislike falling into sin, want to walk straight, are angry when Allah is betrayed, are happy when Islam and Eemaan prevail, yet miss prayers or take intoxicants, etc out of lack of self-control and discipline (an example is Abdullah the drunkard companion (aka donkey) )
Then there's the noble and wholesome category who do well on the eemaan front and on the discipline front - Islam and eemaan complement each other and work correctly when applied together.
Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Useful to keep some of that in mind as we attempt to rationalize who's what.
But he answered his father, "Behold, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed a commandment of yours, but you never gave me a goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this, your son, came, who has devoured your living with pro$titutes, you killed the fattened calf for him." And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
From Luke 15
What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
In a way, a person who chooses to regard the 5 obligatory daily prayers as non obligatory despite being shown proof, can be considered a (minor) kafir, but NOT in terms of monotheism or the general message (risaala) of islam. So he can still be considered a muslim. Just not a practicing one.
Anyone who denies the obligation of prayers is a Kafir. There is consensus on this issue. Otherwise, Abu Bakr As-Sideeq wouldn't have fought against the deniers of Zakat after the death of the Prophet .
People should stop speaking on Islamic matters without proper knowledge. No-one here is qualified enough to discuss or criticize a fatwa given by a mufti. That is the job of scholars, not some random people on a forum.
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
Anyone who denies the obligation of prayers is a Kafir. There is consensus on this issue. Otherwise, Abu Bakr As-Sideeq wouldn't have fought against the deniers of Zakat after the death of the Prophet .
People should stop speaking on Islamic matters without proper knowledge. No-one here is qualified enough to discuss or criticize a fatwa given by a mufti. That is the job of scholars, not some random people on a forum.
I never claimed to be a scholar or even qualified enough to give fatwa (nor will i probably ever...). However, i dont think it takes a scholar to see the unsoundness of this fatwa.
How can a person who denied the obligation of Salah (except out of arrogance), be equal to that whom denies Tawheed (monotheism) all together?
How can a person who refuses to admit the obligation of Salah be equal of that who commit treason?
This mentality is beyond me. I may be wrong in thinking its not the same but any person with a sound mind and heart can easily see where im coming from...
I can see why it is a must to fight againstpeople who claim such things like denying the obligation of Salah or Zakah (sincethey would threaten the authenticity of our religion), but to go as far assaying its ok to kill (EXECUTE) only one individual like that in my opinion isa stretch (unless there is a direct command from The Book & Sunna or havinga direct threat to islam in general, then ofc I wouldn’t object … but still wouldn’tunderstand the reason behind it.)
And with regards to the takfeer part. Dont think there is any dispute over this point, only misunderstanding. Like i said, denying the obligation of Salah is a form of Kufr (in that they would be concealing the truth. And since kufr is an act of covering something, it matches the definition perfectly). But is it the same major Kufr of those who deny the oness of Allah (AWJ)?
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
I never claimed to be a scholar or even qualified enough to give fatwa (nor will i probably ever...). However, i dont think it takes a scholar to see the unsoundness of this fatwa.
How can a person who denied the obligation of Salah (except out of arrogance), be equal to that whom denies Tawheed (monotheism) all together?
How can a person who refuses to admit the obligation of Salah be equal of that who commit treason?
This mentality is beyond me. I may be wrong in thinking its not the same but any person with a sound mind and heart can easily see where im coming from...
I can see why it is a must to fight againstpeople who claim such things like denying the obligation of Salah or Zakah (sincethey would threaten the authenticity of our religion), but to go as far assaying its ok to kill (EXECUTE) only one individual like that in my opinion isa stretch (unless there is a direct command from The Book & Sunna or havinga direct threat to islam in general, then ofc I wouldn’t object … but still wouldn’tunderstand the reason behind it.)
And with regards to the takfeer part. Dont think there is any dispute over this point, only misunderstanding. Like i said, denying the obligation of Salah is a form of Kufr (in that they would be concealing the truth. And since kufr is an act of covering something, it matches the definition perfectly). But is it the same major Kufr of those who deny the oness of Allah (AWJ)?
Brother, the point is that Islamic rules are not based on one's mind or heart - which are, particularly on such matters like this, influenced by one's surrounding culture and values. As it is obvious, human-influenced values cannot be preferred over the divine revelation:
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (Quran, 09:05)
But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know. (Quran, 09:11)
If Muslims showed softness against those who deny the primal pillars of the religion, Islam would perish. That may be the wisdom behind Allah's rule on this matter. For, after the Prophet (peace be upon him) passed away, nearly all of the Arabian Peninsula returned from the religion. So, Abu Bakr (radiyallahu anh) was forced to fight them to protect Islam.
As for individuals, there needs to be a direct exclusion in these general verses instead of a direct indication. Individuals soon conflate to greater collectives. If one person spreads doubt on the religion, others who may lack knowledge might follow him. Then, of course, the execution of apostates is in the hands of the executive state, it is not accomplished by individuals. And Muslim scholars are preliminary sent to advise that person and clarify his doubts before he is executed.
The preservation of religion is from the five necessities (ad-daruriyyat al-khamsah) and must be granted by the governmental authority of Muslims. It is the highest interest of Muslims to preserve the purity of the divine religion and ward off any human influences to it - for that would lead us all astray.
As for the 'greatness of kufr', in matters of judiciary decrees there is no such distinction. You may regard apostates believing in Allah 'closer to iman' than apostates who 'just' reject the obligation of salaah, but in the end an apostate stays an apostate (for us). Allah may grant them their proper retribution.
And [there is a share for] those who came after them, saying, "Our Lord, forgive us and our brothers who preceded us in faith and put not in our hearts [any] resentment toward those who have believed. Our Lord, indeed You are Kind and Merciful." (Surat al-Hashr, 10)
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Abusing your brother in religion is a worse sin than not praying.
Asalamu Alaikum
No, it's not (still pretty terrible though).
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format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
How is it that it is not allowed for a muslim man to be intimate with his muslim wife just because she is not praying?
Think about it, if a man is allowed to marry and have intimate relations with women of the book such as christian or jewish women who dont practice the islamic prayer, why would he not be allowed to have intimate relations with a muslim woman just because she doesnt pray?
Seems contradicting to me. I dont think that it would automatically make u a disbeliever if you dont pray.
Asalamu Alaikum
Apostasy is considered MUCH worse than regular kufr.
Kufr itself can simply be a case of ignorance, apostates willingly choose to abandon the haq.
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format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya.
Brother, why are you so obsessed with the subcontinent
There are also many Western, Turkish and Arab people who claim that.
As for the disbelief of somebody who does not pray, most scholars have said that he is in a state of major sinning - but still in the folds of Islam. The Hanbali scholar Ibn Qudamah al-Maqdisi has explained this in al-Mughni, saying that most fuqaha, including Imam Abu Hanifah, Malik and Shafii, share this opinion.
Asalamu Alaikum
The sub-continent is practically bidah central, and it doesn't help that it produces the most Islamic literature in the world. We need more Salafis or at the very least Deobandis in that region.
As for one who does not pray, if it is a regular occurrence for a lengthy period of time, Shafis and Malikis traditionally considered it grounds for execution, but still considered the individual Muslim. The Hanbalis considered and still consider it as a form of apostasy. Either way, the majority of scholars traditionally agreed that it was serious enough to warrant execution.
But a takfir is the most dangerous as per the stance of Hanafi Imam and some others . does any brother knows about hanafi Imaam's takfir on a Person who does not pray Salah ?
Just a Muslim with Glorious Quran and (hadith) sunnah as my guide as in verse 41:33 '' And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya.
Brother, the point is that Islamic rules are not based on one's mind or heart - which are, particularly on such matters like this, influenced by one's surrounding culture and values. As it is obvious, human-influenced values cannot be preferred over the divine revelation:
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (Quran, 09:05)
But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know. (Quran, 09:11)
If Muslims showed softness against those who deny the primal pillars of the religion, Islam would perish. That may be the wisdom behind Allah's rule on this matter. For, after the Prophet (peace be upon him) passed away, nearly all of the Arabian Peninsula returned from the religion. So, Abu Bakr (radiyallahu anh) was forced to fight them to protect Islam.
As for individuals, there needs to be a direct exclusion in these general verses instead of a direct indication. Individuals soon conflate to greater collectives. If one person spreads doubt on the religion, others who may lack knowledge might follow him. Then, of course, the execution of apostates is in the hands of the executive state, it is not accomplished by individuals. And Muslim scholars are preliminary sent to advise that person and clarify his doubts before he is executed.
The preservation of religion is from the five necessities (ad-daruriyyat al-khamsah) and must be granted by the governmental authority of Muslims. It is the highest interest of Muslims to preserve the purity of the divine religion and ward off any human influences to it - for that would lead us all astray.
As for the 'greatness of kufr', in matters of judiciary decrees there is no such distinction. You may regard apostates believing in Allah 'closer to iman' than apostates who 'just' reject the obligation of salaah, but in the end an apostate stays an apostate (for us). Allah may grant them their proper retribution.
And Allah knows best.
Besides the other points you mentioned in your post, i still want to get to the bottom of why you consider a non-prayer to be a kafir.
Seems to me that you and i have different interpretation of what constitutes or makes a kafir what he is. So from your understanding, what exactly makes someone a kafir?
I only ask because i want to get to a common ground of where we can build up from there and see what is causing this difference in understanding.
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
After doing further research into this topic, i found that the majority of major scholars do warrant the execution of individuals who do not pray (even those who dont out of laziness).
So in that, i guess i was wrong to ridicule IslamQA for saying that in their fatwa and for that i apologize. But i still dont understand why scholars would warrant such a thing. Specially since (based on my understanding) islam aims to bring people to the straight path which leads to heaven, not ensuring their final moments be in a state of kufr. I personally believe execution should only be warranted when there is a direct and significant threat to islam and/or its authenticity. its just that, I can't see how an individual who doesnt pray can cause such a threat. Regardless though, its best for all to follow the majority of the scholars and not me. I personally will hold true and loyal to my morals as they are the things which made me hold onto this faith (and hopefully still follow it till my end).
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
Besides the other points you mentioned in your post, i still want to get to the bottom of why you consider a non-prayer to be a kafir.
Seems to me that you and i have different interpretation of what constitutes or makes a kafir what he is. So from your understanding, what exactly makes someone a kafir?
I only ask because i want to get to a common ground of where we can build up from there and see what is causing this difference in understanding.
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
Basic question is if any Muslim doesn't pray salah due to laziness then what you think of him... A kafir or still a Muslim?
I did not state that not praying Muslims are falling into kufr. Most scholars share the opinion that they are in a state of major sinning, but nevertheless still in the fold of Islam. Like brother @Al Khorasani has addressed, the penalty of execution is applied as a hukm in itself for not praying - not as a penalty of apostasy. So, they are basically executed as 'lazy Muslims not praying'.
As for what makes somebody a kafir - rejecting a verse of the Quran or a rule that is evidently derived of it, like salaah; uttering words and performing actions that lead to kufr (alfaz wa af'al al kufr); and any other action that is stated to be kufr by the Quran and the Sunnah. The general methodology of Ahl as Sunnah is that if there are 99 evidences for Kufr and one evidence for Islam, one judges with regards to that one evidence for Islam. Moreover it is in the authority of scholars to judge a Muslim with disbelief, ordinary people like me are not authorised to make any particular claims - we may just narrate the evident knowledge of it.
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format_quote Originally Posted by Al Khorasani
We need more Salafis or at the very least Deobandis in that region.
What is the problem with Deobandis?
And [there is a share for] those who came after them, saying, "Our Lord, forgive us and our brothers who preceded us in faith and put not in our hearts [any] resentment toward those who have believed. Our Lord, indeed You are Kind and Merciful." (Surat al-Hashr, 10)
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
format_quote Originally Posted by Yahya.
What is the problem with Deobandis?
I just have a few minor disagreements (e.g their strong belief in Taqlid), but they are still perfectly acceptable Muslims and most of their opinions are legitimate differences, not crazy things like permitting music or shrines.
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format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
After doing further research into this topic, i found that the majority of major scholars do warrant the execution of individuals who do not pray (even those who dont out of laziness).
So in that, i guess i was wrong to ridicule IslamQA for saying that in their fatwa and for that i apologize. But i still dont understand why scholars would warrant such a thing. Specially since (based on my understanding) islam aims to bring people to the straight path which leads to heaven, not ensuring their final moments be in a state of kufr. I personally believe execution should only be warranted when there is a direct and significant threat to islam and/or its authenticity. its just that, I can't see how an individual who doesnt pray can cause such a threat. Regardless though, its best for all to follow the majority of the scholars and not me. I personally will hold true and loyal to my morals as they are the things which made me hold onto this faith (and hopefully still follow it till my end).
You don't just kill them on the spot, you give them a chance to start praying again, and only execute them if they don't heed your warning.
Re: Can a Muslim, literally, be kafir for not praying salah..?
Imaam Ahmad said that the one who does not pray because of laziness is a kaafir.This is the more correct view and is that indicated by the evidence of the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger, and by the words of the Salaf and the proper understanding. (Al-Sharh al-Mumti’ ‘ala Zaad al-Mustanqi’, 2/26).
It was narrated that Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The covenant that distinguishes between us and them is the prayer, and whoever neglects it has disbelieved (become a kaafir).’” (It was narrated by Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaa’i and Ibn Maajah).
At-Tabaraani narrated in al-Mu‘jam al-Kabeer (8941) with a saheeh isnaad from ‘Abdullah ibn Mas‘ood (may Allah be pleased with him) that he said: “Whoever does not pray has no religion.”
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wouldn't have fought against the deniers of Zakat after the death of the Prophet
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