Rape culture

**Raymann** · 08-01-2018

Brief introduction, purpose for signing on this forum and question.
Introduction:
I'm a westerner living in New York City who considers himself a mix of Atheist and Agnostic.I grew up in a Catholic family so my morals, culture and personality have been heavily influenced by Christianity.
Purpose:
In the world that I live, Islam is the topic of conversation very often from the past 20 years or so.Before that time I knew very little about Islam and Muslims.I have a passion for researching the topics I find interesting.I get my information from mass media, the internet,(forums, youtube, etc), and electronic books (Quran, Bible, etc)I have heard bad things about the Islamic World, things that are strange and incompatible with the way I live.So I'm here because I want to hear from Muslims themselves if the bad things I hear are misinterpreted or that really Islamic culture is too different from Western culture and therefore incompatible. Can we live side by side? Or sooner or later it is going to explode?
I know many Muslims now but I have never been a real friend with any of them.I find them a little intimidating, they seem to be always in the defensive and ready to jump at you.Whatever I say is quickly responded by a :Can you defend your claim? or Can you prove what you're saying? or can you provide a link to prove it? or that is not in the Quran, or get your facts straight. So you can understand what I mean by being intimidated by some very intense Muslims.
My question and topic today is "Rape in Islamic Countries"
My research indicates that there's a huge flaw in Islamic Countries that allow "Most rape cases to go unpunished" and unreported. Men know they can get away with rape and women wouldn't dare to accuse a man of rape and risking her life by doing so (Adultery)
Is it true? Who's fault is it? Islamic Law, Muslim Jurists? Wrong interpretation of Islamic Scriptures? or What?

**Raymann** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel

Where do you get your misinformation from? The victim is not punished in Islam. See the quote:

I think you are getting worse misinformation than me. The following is a quote from the link you provided:

Rape is essentially zina (fornication or adultery) and is proven in the same way as zina is proven, which is with four witnesses. The punishment is one hundred lashes if the man was a virgin and stoning if he was previously married.
According to my research the four witnesses are only required on an "Adultery" accusation, not on a rape case.
Someone knowledgeable correct me if I'm wrong.

**AabiruSabeel** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by Raymann

I think you are getting worse misinformation than me. The following is a quote from the link you provided:

Rape is essentially zina (fornication or adultery) and is proven in the same way as zina is proven, which is with four witnesses. The punishment is one hundred lashes if the man was a virgin and stoning if he was previously married.
According to my research the four witnesses are only required on an "Adultery" accusation, not on a rape case.
Someone knowledgeable correct me if I'm wrong.

Stop trolling.

Did you bother to read it completely? The punishment is for the rapist, not for the victim.

**Raymann** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by Al Khorasani

"The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter."

Very nice coming from, The Most Beneficent, The MostMerciful"

**xboxisdead** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by Anothername

What are on earth are you about? Men can also rape men if you do such a gender segregation. By the way your information is false.

- - - Updated - - -

^ Ignore that question. I'm probably better off not knowing. Can't delete it.

No...we already know that men can rape men...that is not the point. The gender segregation I was talking about is not to protect men from raping men...I am talking about with feminist ideology that ALL men are rapists from start of Adam until the last human being born on this Earth and that the only way women will be saved from rape is to do complete gender segregation and women live in an Amazon world without male sex period. But what women don't know is that women can also rape women. Proof of that are female teachers who have sex with girls. Don't you consider that in your humble opinion...a rape?

If you are to say no it is not rape because a girl consented to having sex with a female teacher then the next question comes in...why can't that be said when the girl consent to having sex with a male teacher? At least with the second scenario it is not homosexual sex and it is between a male and a female vs the first scenario it is lesbian sex.

And don't worry...I am already making a stink about how boys DO get raped and there are no voices or care for them. What people don't understand is that when boys get raped it warp their mind. It perverts them. They no longer become a suitable marriage partner. In addition such explosive presto will bite us in the long shot under guise of violence, mass shooting, bombs and the victims committing suicides. WORSE they become homosexuals and start raping other boys or men and thus like infected cancer spreading the disease worse than ever before.

**azc** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by Raymann

Anothername

That's exactly how all started, investigating rape cases in my own community but I don't want to get out of topic by elaborating on this question.

Will you come with evidences instead of making false allegations basing your so called research...?

E.g.

What is the status of this rape culture in America and Saudi Arab. Will you give a comparative data of these two countries...?

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Raymann

Very nice coming from, The Most Beneficent, The MostMerciful"

5:32-34 ...If any one slew a person - unless it be as punishment for murder or for spreading corruption in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Now, what you say...?

***charisma*** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by Raymann

Here are two cases that seem to contradict your statement. These women were convicted for having sex outside of marriage even though they claimed they were raped. Adultery is the charge if the woman is married, Fornication if she is single.

I'm glad you brought up these videos because they are both clear examples of culture not Islam. The UAE does not follow Islamic law. If drinking, clubbing, free mixing, corrupt government are all widely spread as they are in the UAE or any other country, then it is very obvious that there is no concern for anyone's well being whether it is a woman or a man, in regards to rape or otherwise. These are things which are all against Islam and Islamic law. It's a great shame unfortunately. Under Islamic law, not only would the rapists be convicted, but so would law enforcers and anyone tampering with evidence. Did you not notice that even the punishments were not done the way they otherwise would have if it had been done islamically? I'm curious as to why you haven't made that distinction between culture and islam especially when it is clear cut in those videos. Is it simply because when you see Muslims or a Muslim country you immediately assume that we are living under a utopian islamic society?

Nope, we are veryyy far from that.

Originally Posted by Raymann

I think you are getting worse misinformation than me. The following is a quote from the link you provided:

Rape is essentially zina (fornication or adultery) and is proven in the same way as zina is proven, which is with four witnesses. The punishment is one hundred lashes if the man was a virgin and stoning if he was previously married.
According to my research the four witnesses are only required on an "Adultery" accusation, not on a rape case.
Someone knowledgeable correct me if I'm wrong.

Your research is correct--to an extent.
Four witness are required to prove adultery, not rape. This is very clear in the Quran. Otherwise to claim adultery (not rape) against someone falsely is considered slander which leads to severe punishment. The four witnesses are used in rape cases when there is an allegation of adultery similar to the example you gave above. For example, a girl comes in saying she has been raped, the man is brought in and questioned and replies that it was not rape. At that the man would be required to provide four sound witnesses to prove his case. Rape is a type of adultery from the perspective of the accused, not the accuser/victim because it is still unlawful sex. The punishment is similar to that of adultery, but it's considered worse because a person is victimized as explained in previous posts above. Just like with any case and judicial system, evidence is required to prove something whether it is rape or otherwise. It wouldn't be justice if it were simply a claim, generally speaking. Otherwise a woman could simply say she was raped without clear evidence just to have any man who wronged her punished. Today there is medical evidence, circumstantial evidence, witnesses, etc, that were not available to us previously, so surely these things are used as well now.

Unfortunately every country gives rapists leniency and does not take rape cases seriously. It's actually very difficult to convict rape offenders in western countries which is why the term "rape culture" is coined, so if scientifically, medically, sociologically, politically advanced countries like the US or UK can't get it right with all of the women empowerment and equality movements out there, then surely 2nd and 3rd world countries would not come close, especially when Islamic law is not followed. If it's not news to you yet after your research, the justice system is corrupt in the most advanced countries and favors the rapists over the victims.

**Futuwwa** · 08-03-2018

Yes, most cases of rape go unpunished in Islamic countries. Just like absolutely everywhere else.

Pretty much every Muslim would agree that rape is a severe crime that should be punished severely, without recognizing any kind of extenuating circumstances. Yet, Islamic societies aren't magically immune to all the systemic reasons that exist elsewhere that make perpetrators get away with it.

There are, in places in the Islamic world, society-specific causes that lead to it being so though. Some are corrupt dictatorships with dysfunctional legal systems, which makes it dangerous to accuse someone who is in a position of privilege and power. In other places, there are harmful popular misconceptions about how "good girls don't get raped", which leads to women who do get raped to doubt themselves and be discouraged to press charges for fear of harming their reputations.

As for your specific cause though, no. That accusers bear the burden of proof is pretty universally recognized, but a not-guilty verdict for rape doesn't result in an automatic guilty verdict for adultery. I guess there are instances where that's how things have gone down, but you'll be hard pressed to find any Muslim, let alone a scholar of Islamic law, who'd say that's how it's supposed to be.

Is that to-the-point enough for you?

**Raymann** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by *charisma*

I'm curious as to why you haven't made that distinction between culture and islam especially when it is clear cut in those videos. Is it simply because when you see Muslims or a Muslim country you immediately assume that we are living under a utopian islamic society?

I do understand the difference between Islamic culture and Islam but in this case I'm only trying to find out if my research is true regardless of the type or shade of Islamic Law applied in each Islamic Country.
My research finds that "most rape cases in Islamic Countries are unpunished or unreported"
I'm not going to blame Islam on it because I'm sure Islam didn't intend for this to happen but it is happening.
Those who expect me to provide accurate data on the case are going to be disappointed because there is no data about unreported rape cases. This is the case everywhere not only in Muslim Countries.
The problem is that there is a real suspicion that this is much more prevalent in Islamic Countries because of Islamic Laws (whatever the shade of it in use)Women are more reluctant to accuse a rapist, men are not afraid of getting caught, etc.
In the west women have absolutely nothing to fear by accusing a man of rape so there are more reported cases regardless of the outcome of the cases.

This is a response from a Muslim in another Forum, he believes the problem "exists" and blame the Muslims Religious Leaders:

"The only way to correct this situation is to challenge it openly. As long as you would have a religious leadership that ignores the reality you do not have any hope to change it. Keep on talking about it and raising this even if it means that you are frowned upon by such leaders."

Yes sir, I'm on it.

**Alamgir** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by Raymann

Very nice coming from, The Most Beneficent, The MostMerciful"

First you cry when you falsely believe rapists get no punishment in Islam, and now that I've shown you the punishment for rapists you whinge that it's too severe.

Stop being a baby. Putting people in prison clearly isn't working judging by the amount of rape that goes on in Darul Kufr.

This punishment is a mercy upon us, the potential victims of such animals.

***charisma*** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by Raymann

My research finds that "most rape cases in Islamic Countries are unpunished or unreported"

If they do, it's due to culture not religion. This is not to say that there aren't any problems--absolutely issues do exist--but they do not stem from religion. If you included culture into this topic, there'd be much more to say and put blame on, and I'd suggest your research start there.

Originally Posted by Raymann

The problem is that there is a real suspicion that this is much more prevalent in Islamic Countries because of Islamic Laws (whatever the shade of it in use)Women are more reluctant to accuse a rapist, men are not afraid of getting caught, etc.
In the west women have absolutely nothing to fear by accusing a man of rape so there are more reported cases regardless of the outcome of the cases.

This is absolutely untrue. In fact a very small percentage of rape cases actually go to trial in the west, and when they do there is even a smaller chance that the criminal is convicted. To state that women have "nothing to fear" is very ignorant on your part because they face shame, prejudice, and apathy from the justice system more often than not, and after everything, the rapist is not convicted nor is he taken to trial. He is left free to roam. I'm positive if a rape victim heard you make such a comparison they'd be extremely offended and hurt. No matter where rape occurs it may very well hold the same type of stigma regardless of location. Since this is a universal problem, I'd say that perhaps a woman in the US would have different fears than a woman in the Middle East, but both fears may prevent them from reporting rape. Does that make sense? So while I understand that you are trying to find the root of the problem or at least where it is facilitated in Islamic countries, rape is much more prevalent in the west than it is in Islamic countries and there is less of an effort under that judicial system than there is under Islamic law to prosecute the offenders.

You also can't really disregard the influence of religious power in Islamic countries and paint them with the same brush. For example Saudi Arabia is VERY different than Lebanon. The way that rape cases are handled in Lebanon are probably very different to how rape cases in Saudi are handled. Their laws differ, their culture differs, and their society differs. So how would that affect rape cases? Well in Lebanon for example, citizens are allowed to drink alcohol, so alcohol can be a factor in a rape case making it more complicated. In Saudi Arabia however, intoxicants of all types are illegal, so that would remove this obstacle out of the way when convicting a rapist since both the woman and rapist would be sound of mind. Rape cases can become extremely complex in general, so in countries where there are less influences of sexual misconduct, the conviction of rape becomes easier.

**xboxisdead** · 08-03-2018

Originally Posted by *charisma*

If they do, it's due to culture not religion. This is not to say that there aren't any problems--absolutely issues do exist--but they do not stem from religion. If you included culture into this topic, there'd be much more to say and put blame on, and I'd suggest your research start there.

This is absolutely untrue. In fact a very small percentage of rape cases actually go to trial in the west, and when they do there is even a smaller chance that the criminal is convicted. To state that women have "nothing to fear" is very ignorant on your part because they face shame, prejudice, and apathy from the justice system more often than not, and after everything, the rapist is not convicted nor is he taken to trial. He is left free to roam. I'm positive if a rape victim heard you make such a comparison they'd be extremely offended and hurt. No matter where rape occurs it may very well hold the same type of stigma regardless of location. Since this is a universal problem, I'd say that perhaps a woman in the US would have different fears than a woman in the Middle East, but both fears may prevent them from reporting rape. Does that make sense? So while I understand that you are trying to find the root of the problem or at least where it is facilitated in Islamic countries, rape is much more prevalent in the west than it is in Islamic countries and there is less of an effort under that judicial system than there is under Islamic law to prosecute the offenders.

You also can't really disregard the influence of religious power in Islamic countries and paint them with the same brush. For example Saudi Arabia is VERY different than Lebanon. The way that rape cases are handled in Lebanon are probably very different to how rape cases in Saudi are handled. Their laws differ, their culture differs, and their society differs. So how would that affect rape cases? Well in Lebanon for example, citizens are allowed to drink alcohol, so alcohol can be a factor in a rape case making it more complicated. In Saudi Arabia however, intoxicants of all types are illegal, so that would remove this obstacle out of the way when convicting a rapist since both the woman and rapist would be sound of mind. Rape cases can become extremely complex in general, so in countries where there are less influences of sexual misconduct, the conviction of rape becomes easier.

Can I say that if Muslims where not just Muslims by name and where Muslims like the time of sahaba and truly and severely feared Allah (Subahanau Wa Talaa) to the point that they feel and almost see the afterlife in front of them and be at the court of Allah right this very second while doing the action the amount of rape, murder, backbiting, slander, out of wedlock relation, ------- children, music, pornography, etc all would disappear to 0% if every human had this in him or her. I would go as far as say that all men would wear and mimic the prophet in dress code and interaction and all the women would mimic the best of the woman at that time in dress code and interaction. You will find the police officer and jail cell will be almost empty and fiddling his thump. But these issues will only worsen when our hearts be more and more and more and more attached to worldly affairs and less thinking of the afterlife and the consequences of our lives. When we push our children to only achieve bachelor and master degree in universities and get high paying job and have professional job positions and we consider this success instead of pushing our children to be best in Islam and Iman and give good characters to them. When two parents are out there making the money instead of TWO parents are raising the children...don't be surprised that scenarios like rape, murder, etc will be a common natural flow in society. How many parents observe exactly what their children are watching and what they playing?

Just something to ponder .....

**Anothername** · 08-04-2018

Originally Posted by xboxisdead

No...we already know that men can rape men...that is not the point. The gender segregation I was talking about is not to protect men from raping men...I am talking about with feminist ideology that ALL men are rapists from start of Adam until the last human being born on this Earth and that the only way women will be saved from rape is to do complete gender segregation and women live in an Amazon world without male sex period. But what women don't know is that women can also rape women. Proof of that are female teachers who have sex with girls. Don't you consider that in your humble opinion...a rape?

If you are to say no it is not rape because a girl consented to having sex with a female teacher then the next question comes in...why can't that be said when the girl consent to having sex with a male teacher? At least with the second scenario it is not homosexual sex and it is between a male and a female vs the first scenario it is lesbian sex.

And don't worry...I am already making a stink about how boys DO get raped and there are no voices or care for them. What people don't understand is that when boys get raped it warp their mind. It perverts them. They no longer become a suitable marriage partner. In addition such explosive presto will bite us in the long shot under guise of violence, mass shooting, bombs and the victims committing suicides. WORSE they become homosexuals and start raping other boys or men and thus like infected cancer spreading the disease worse than ever before.

The first thing I'll want to remind, genders aside, is that we both are from different places and experiences. However, it seems our thinking are a bit similar, to the point that I also recognise somethings to be divisive rather unifying. To be reactionary rather than really helping. And within this perspective you will also find individuals in different movements to have their own agendas, whether it comes from a place of aggression or compassion. The feminist movement is one such area, different people saying different things changing over time even disagreeing with each other. But, essentially, I agree with you, in recognizing human rights irregardless of gender, transgenger, sexuality, ages etc.

It's all, I'm reminded recently, stemming from having a pure spirituality. That's what we always need to work on. That's when there will be less victimization, abuse and more healing and help taking place, may Allah guide us to be such people and be with those who are this way. Ameen

**xboxisdead** · 08-04-2018

Originally Posted by Anothername

But, essentially, I agree with you, in recognizing human rights irregardless of gender, transgenger, sexuality, ages etc.

It's all, I'm reminded recently, stemming from having a pure spirituality. That's what we always need to work on. That's when there will be less victimization, abuse and more healing and help taking place, may Allah guide us to be such people and be with those who are this way. Ameen

**Raymann** · 08-05-2018

This is absolutely untrue.

Ok, let's see.

a very small percentage of rape cases actually go to trial in the west, and when they do there is even a smaller chance that the criminal is convicted

In other words, a lot of cases are reported but the percentage of trials is low and convictions even lower.
Fine, by people reporting the cases at least we know what's going on.
We know that in Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark, France and others the rape cases are skyrocketing in the past few years and thanks to the victims by coming forward and reporting the cases now we know that most of those rapes are being committed by Muslims.
Unfortunately that doesn't happen in Muslim Countries where the number of reported rapes is either hidden or cases are just not reported.

To state that women have "nothing to fear" (in the west) is very ignorant on your part

So you're saying that the psychological damage (shame, prejudice, apathy, stigma) is somehow equivalent to the possibility of being stoned to death, have your back lashed or end up in jail ?.

I'm positive if a rape victim heard you make such a comparison they'd be extremely offended and hurt.

Well, who is the ignorant then? We should show them a stoning execution to see what a Muslim woman faces when accusing a man.

.... but both fears may prevent them from reporting rape.

True, but somehow women in the west are being brave and doing a better job by showing up against the rapists.

rape is much more prevalent in the west than it is in Islamic countries and there is less of an effort under that judicial system than there is under Islamic law to prosecute the offenders.

Wow, well if you base that statement on data provided by Muslim Countries I agree, but I'm not that naive.

I was reading a compilation of data about all sorts of crimes in the Muslim World. It is a few year old but it shows what I was pointing out about rapes in Europe lately. Might be a little scary to wake up and see reality when you live in a pink colored world.

https://carm.org/islamic-muslim-stat...a-isis-welfare

and another one so you don't think I'm making staff up.

https://www.thenational.ae/world/mus...blems-1.618038

***charisma*** · 08-05-2018

Originally Posted by Raymann

In other words, a lot of cases are reported but the percentage of trials is low and convictions even lower.
Fine, by people reporting the cases at least we know what's going on.
We know that in Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark, France and others the rape cases are skyrocketing in the past few years and thanks to the victims by coming forward and reporting the cases now we know that most of those rapes are being committed by Muslims.
Unfortunately that doesn't happen in Muslim Countries where the number of reported rapes is either hidden or cases are just not reported.

No, in other words, many women don't even bother reporting it because they already know that nothing will happen if they do and in fact they will get ridiculed and shamed for doing so. In other words, women in the west feel shamed and ridiculed due to problems in the judicial system whereas muslim women may feel the same due to problems from culture. Has nothing to do with raped women getting stoned, executed, lashed or whatever your imagination is conjuring up. In what scenario would a woman's rape case be against her in a Muslim country? Let me know if you can figure that out.

Originally Posted by Raymann

We know that in Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark, France and others the rape cases are skyrocketing in the past few years and thanks to the victims by coming forward and reporting the cases now we know that most of those rapes are being committed by Muslims.
Unfortunately that doesn't happen in Muslim Countries where the number of reported rapes is either hidden or cases are just not reported.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but this is also false. Sweden's rape stats have remained nearly the same for the past few years actually. Increases have been noted in the UK and Wales, but not due to Muslims; Germany's stats are often based on a very different definition of rape because they include all types of sexual abuse, and again not Muslim driven. I could go on and on, but definitely your claims are based on false and intolerant right-wing media reports, especially those that started appearing after the influx of refugees in the past couple of years. Now if you actually want a discussion based on real research and facts, then please enlighten me with real facts and research and not hearsay and bigotry. At the very least google does a good job, but there are also free public libraries and research databases you can utilize whenever you read something so ridiculous.

Secondly, I'd assume by your logic that if Muslims were in the west there'd be less rape cases committed there considering women can easily report it without any fears right?? SO then how is it rape cases in the west have increased instead of it decreasing?? Illogical.

However, I'd love some real statistics for your claims based on actual evidence that state otherwise.

Originally Posted by Raymann

Unfortunately that doesn't happen in Muslim Countries where the number of reported rapes is either hidden or cases are just not reported.

I'm sure there are many unreported rape cases in different muslim countries, but again the question remains as to WHY they go unreported, and I've already stated that it's not due to islamic law. So how about I give you the special task of researching the statistics of two different Muslim countries and the possible reasons of why rape cases go unreported. Have fun

Originally Posted by Raymann

So you're saying that the psychological damage (shame, prejudice, apathy, stigma) is somehow equivalent to the possibility of being stoned to death, have your back lashed or end up in jail ?.

Nope because I was drawing parallels not distinctions. If stoning or any of that sort was a factor I'd have mentioned it.

Let me ask you the following:

Which Muslim countries practice Islamic law?
Of those, how many use stoning as a punishment?
Of those, what crimes lead to getting stoned?
and of those stoning cases how many are women who were raped or who "accused a man" of rape??
and if you get that far, describe the conditions that the women were in that convicted them as criminals deserving of punishment and not as victims.

Let's see what you come up with, please show me your sources as well. Maybe I could learn a thing or two

Originally Posted by Raymann

True, but somehow women in the west are being brave and doing a better job by showing up against the rapists.

This has nothing to do with bravery. Where was the bravery while getting raped? Or while drinking with the rapist? Or dancing with him? Or flirting with him? Or moving in with him? Again, don't insult the victims please. Let me ask you this, why do women report rape in the first place? It's not because of "bravery" it's because they believe or hope that justice will be served, and unfortunately it rarely if ever is. So whether they report it or not WHATS THE POINT? They get Stats, but then what?? Nothing happens. NOthing has been happening for years. Or is it a big topic now because Muslims are invading your lands??

Originally Posted by Raymann

Wow, well if you base that statement on data provided by Muslim Countries I agree, but I'm not that naive.

I was reading a compilation of data about all sorts of crimes in the Muslim World. It is a few year old but it shows what I was pointing out about rapes in Europe lately. Might be a little scary to wake up and see reality when you live in a pink colored world.

https://carm.org/islamic-muslim-stat...a-isis-welfare

and another one so you don't think I'm making staff up.

https://www.thenational.ae/world/mus...blems-1.618038

You are naive if you believe those websites. One is a Christian apologetics site (islamophobic) and has nothing to back up its sources, while the other article says absolutely nothing about rape and doesn't even state the name of the study done. Nothing about rape even shows up when searching on the database that the study is allegedly from. Again please find credible sources. I mean you could at least meet me half way with this discussion when you post these things.

Out of curiosity, what is your end goal here? Are you going to eradicate rape?? If so, it's a male issue..maybe start with eradicating them

**xboxisdead** · 08-05-2018

Originally Posted by *charisma*

No, in other words, many women don't even bother reporting it because they already know that nothing will happen if they do and in fact they will get ridiculed and shamed for doing so. In other words, women in the west feel shamed and ridiculed due to problems in the judicial system whereas muslim women may feel the same due to problems from culture. Has nothing to do with raped women getting stoned, executed, lashed or whatever your imagination is conjuring up. In what scenario would a woman's rape case be against her in a Muslim country? Let me know if you can figure that out.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but this is also false. Sweden's rape stats have remained nearly the same for the past few years actually. Increases have been noted in the UK and Wales, but not due to Muslims; Germany's stats are often based on a very different definition of rape because they include all types of sexual abuse, and again not Muslim driven. I could go on and on, but definitely your claims are based on false and intolerant right-wing media reports, especially those that started appearing after the influx of refugees in the past couple of years. Now if you actually want a discussion based on real research and facts, then please enlighten me with real facts and research and not hearsay and bigotry. At the very least google does a good job, but there are also free public libraries and research databases you can utilize whenever you read something so ridiculous.

Secondly, I'd assume by your logic that if Muslims were in the west there'd be less rape cases committed there considering women can easily report it without any fears right?? SO then how is it rape cases in the west have increased instead of it decreasing?? Illogical.

However, I'd love some real statistics for your claims based on actual evidence that state otherwise.

P.S "Funny though...I hear so many non-Muslim women fantasize of being raped! They have...'desires' to be raped.....I am thinking we human being is one bag of issues

"
I'm sure there are many unreported rape cases in different muslim countries, but again the question remains as to WHY they go unreported, and I've already stated that it's not due to islamic law. So how about I give you the special task of researching the statistics of two different Muslim countries and the possible reasons of why rape cases go unreported. Have fun

Nope because I was drawing parallels not distinctions. If stoning or any of that sort was a factor I'd have mentioned it.

Let me ask you the following:

Which Muslim countries practice Islamic law?
Of those, how many use stoning as a punishment?
Of those, what crimes lead to getting stoned?
and of those stoning cases how many are women who were raped or who "accused a man" of rape??
and if you get that far, describe the conditions that the women were in that convicted them as criminals deserving of punishment and not as victims.

Let's see what you come up with, please show me your sources as well. Maybe I could learn a thing or two

This has nothing to do with bravery. Where was the bravery while getting raped? Or while drinking with the rapist? Or dancing with him? Or flirting with him? Or moving in with him? Again, don't insult the victims please. Let me ask you this, why do women report rape in the first place? It's not because of "bravery" it's because they believe or hope that justice will be served, and unfortunately it rarely if ever is. So whether they report it or not WHATS THE POINT? They get Stats, but then what?? Nothing happens. NOthing has been happening for years. Or is it a big topic now because Muslims are invading your lands??

You are naive if you believe those websites. One is a Christian apologetics site (islamophobic) and has nothing to back up its sources, while the other article says absolutely nothing about rape and doesn't even state the name of the study done. Nothing about rape even shows up when searching on the database that the study is allegedly from. Again please find credible sources. I mean you could at least meet me half way with this discussion when you post these things.

Out of curiosity, what is your end goal here? Are you going to eradicate rape?? If so, it's a male issue..maybe start with eradicating them

I assure you that rape can be done by a woman also. If a woman of adult age have sexual sex with a 10 year old boy and he says no and she pushes and she kept pushing that is rape. Women can rape too. Be it is true that lots of rapes are committed by men..not denying that women can rape as well. Eradicating all men too is also injustice because not all men are rapist. You know how to lessen rape or put it at minimum level (never said it can be eradicated for life..because so is murder cannot be eradicated for life, so is poisoning someone cannot be eradicated for..so is psychological and emotional and verbal abuse can never be eradicated for life...so is disease, vertigo, heart problems, other calamities can never be eradicated for life....), FOLLOW ISLAMIC LAW 100% AND IMPLEMENT IT 100% to a point of even committing zina you get slashed and whipped or even if you so steal one digital application or steal one apple you get your hand cut off...you will be surprised at how close to crime free we will become. FEAR of your creator should be sufficient to put evil at 1% bay. Don't you agree? HECK we can go as far as backbiting (men and women crime too) is considered like eating the flesh of your brother and as thus if we want 100% implementation..backbiting should get the same crime as eating the flesh of your brother..meaning lots of women will be in prison too. WANT TO IMPLEMENT IT 100% also...slander and false allegation should have the crime of death whether that be a man or a woman.

RAPE is one thing...but you are focusing on one thing when other EVIL acts as equally bad come in act but come with different shade.

P.S "Funny though how I read and hear about so many non-Muslim fantasize of being raped! I start to believe we humans in general are just walking bag of issues

"

**Futuwwa** · 08-05-2018

Originally Posted by Raymann

We know that in Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark, France and others the rape cases are skyrocketing in the past few years and thanks to the victims by coming forward and reporting the cases now we know that most of those rapes are being committed by Muslims.

u wot m8?

Every serious criminologist (as in, an actual academic, not a hack trying to validate a preconceived notion) knows that changes in recorded rape numbers can either be due to actual changes in the frequency of rape, or changes in reporting rate, and that determining which it is is extremely difficult. You must be some kind of criminological genius if you have found a way to do it reliably. Or, you're just a troll spouting Islamophobic talking points as fact. You disappoint me, I thought you were here for serious discussion. Well baited, I suppose. Now, sod off.

**Abz2000** · 08-05-2018

Originally Posted by Futuwwa

u wot m8?

Every serious criminologist (as in, an actual academic, not a hack trying to validate a preconceived notion) knows that changes in recorded rape numbers can either be due to actual changes in the frequency of rape, or changes in reporting rate. You must be some kind of criminological genius if you have found a way to do it reliably. Or, you're just a troll spouting Islamophobic talking points as fact. You disappoint me, I thought you were here for serious discussion. Well baited, I suppose. Now, sod off.

Anybody observing the situation can see clearly that the frequency of sexual expression in public, strip clubs and visitation of strip clubs, the production of pornography and its consumption, and the visitation of nighclubs replete with increasing lewdness and alcohol consumption - are all increasing in non-Muslim majority countries, and Muslims have nothing to do with it.

See also:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/mar/19/gender.uk

**BeTheChange** · 08-05-2018

If one really wants to talk about unreported rape crimes you need to start off by looking at the music industry. It is full of cases! Lots of powerful rich men (i must add women otherwise brother xboxisdead will correct me no doubt

Alhamdulilah) who commit horrific violent acts but buy people's silence.

Waste of time looking at who to blame. Look at solutions and preventative measures.

**xboxisdead** · 08-05-2018

Originally Posted by BeTheChange

If one really wants to talk about unreported rape crimes you need to start off by looking at the music industry. It is full of cases! Lots of powerful rich men (i must add women otherwise brother xboxisdead will correct me no doubt

Alhamdulilah) who commit horrific violent acts but buy people's silence.

Waste of time looking at who to blame. Look at solutions and preventative measures.

NOT ONLY YOU ARE 100% correct but let me add to this.

0) BRING ISLAM TO NON-MUSLIM WORLD and you will see what happens. Just watch!

A) STOP REMOVING FATHERS FROM HOMES. LET THEM do their freaking job...YEACH.

FATHERS - PROTECTOR AND PROVIDER (THEY ALSO TURN BOYS INTO MEN. GOOD CITIZEN MEN who excel in school which drops on crimes, suicide, etc)

Please...let FATHERS do their freaking job and stop telling the world thaat men and fathers are unnecessary and we don't need them and that a woman can be a dad and a mom at the same time. STOOOOP it.

B) STOP having sex outside of marriage and bringing children from out of wedlock homes. PLEASE...PLEASE...PLEASE. Have children only in confinement of marriage.

C) STOP making it less attractive for men to get married by having such anti-male laws and make it instead appealing for men to wanting to get married and having children so he can play his role of...jeeze...I dunno.....PROVIDER AND PROTECTOR (especially for his daughters - rolls eyes - )

D) STOP LETTING CHILDREN (especially girls) wear provocative clothing when they go outside. The amount of little children...effeminate boys and girls who go out in the most SEXUAL attires....yeach!! Not only the non-Muslim country breeds rape culture or so what you call it..but it breeds child rapist and pedophile.

E) DO NOT HAVE BOYFRIENDS AND GIRLFRIENDS. If the guy want to have sex...HE GET MARRIED TO THE GIRL and THE FATHER is at the picture...MEN know their own nature well and he can filter out the bad apples from the good ones.

F) STOP HAVING WOMEN SOLD AS A SEXUAL COMMODITY IN TVS AND VIDEO GAMES. I am so bored now looking at women on TV I am like...yaawwn. Your society is going to breed homosexuality at the rate your headed.

Ever wondered why in Muslim countries in TV's you see almost all men in TV and even in voice to speech in computers? So that there will be always gender opposite attraction between the sexes and that men will do whatever it takes to shape himself up to be with a woman. Bombarded him non-stop with sexual images, female voices, female on TV and you will breed disaster. NO man would want to get married. Why? He have pornography which will breed rape desires. He will be surrounded with so many women outside at work and places, laughing joke, seeing women almost walking naked in street...why get married? You don't need to get married. There is always fresh meat (sorry to say) walking in the street I can enjoy and admire...I don't need some old woman in my home who lost her beauty to look for attraction. THAT IS EXACTLY what the NON-MUSLIM world have done and all blame goes ON YOU!! Don't come here weeping for rape culture when you..YOU non-muslim did it to yourself.

Hehe...funny how it is easy to target men as evil

Brand new story..2018 fresh ahah!