Atheist Internet warrioring in a nutshell: Fool the other guy into believing he bears the burden of proof, and that your epistemological doctrines are objective truths. If all else fails, demand proof of every premise and count on Gödel' Incompleteness Theorem.
Atheist Internet warrioring in a nutshell: Fool the other guy into believing he bears the burden of proof, and that your epistemological doctrines are objective truths. If all else fails, demand proof of every premise and count on Gödel' Incompleteness Theorem.
Is not an Atheist thing, actually I learned it from Muslims but it is universal at this point. I used to hate it when used against me.
I can't believe you guys fell for this. Based on the lack of context in the OP, it was pretty clear what Raymann's intentions were. 6 pages and counting. Raymann, continue enjoying your popcorn.
He cannot be called a troll. A troll hides himself and misleads people to an idea which would not be expected from him. This user openly reveals himself as an Agnostic who is not compatible with Islam. I believe he is what he appears to be.
Is not an Atheist thing, actually I learned it from Muslims but it is universal at this point. I used to hate it when used against me.
See...not sincere at all...it is just a game for you...so why would we bother explain to you anything...besides you are the one claiming İslam makes no sense in the first place...then you get to explain what you mean by that and why.
It has nothing to do with sincerity, the "support your claim" technique is a widely used way of making the other person to open up first which is what you've been trying to do all along. So don't play victim now.
I already made it clear (page 7 on this thread) why Islam doesn't make sense, no need to keep repeating myself.
Read it and then if you feel like it explain why Islam makes sense to you.
It is a waste of time to discuss anything with you. As long as you consider Divine guidance to be imaginary, you will never be able to understand our perspective.
If you really want to understand Islam and Muslims, you should first understand our Creator, the Sustainer of everything. Otherwise, we can show you the exit door.
That's the point, with people of other faith you can at least have some sort of discussion but with atheists, its pretty much pointless. Not to mention that this debate has been going on for 1000's of years. Though it does interest me why are they so desperate to drag us down into the abyss.
He cannot be called a troll. A troll hides himself and misleads people to an idea which would not be expected from him. This user openly reveals himself as an Agnostic who is not compatible with Islam. I believe he is what he appears to be.
I have to disagree, there’s a lot of nuance when it comes to trolling nowadays, he's trying everything from concern trolling to hard salesman and everything in between. He's not doing a very good job compared to his predecessors on this forum. If he can’t convert then at least subvert. Mind you he's not doing a very good job of it compared to his predecessors.
So Atheists have a monopoly on reason? Why didn't you tell us straight away? We could have saved much useless back-and-forth that way, you could simply straight up one-way tell us how it is.
This is perceptive, its a powerplay, they want to dominate. We can see how reasonable internet atheists can be.
Even the more intelligent ones can hold questionable views.
In a debate on the existence of God this atheist philosopher didn't seem to understand the basics.
Holy Spirit Activism
Hi! First of all, Craig's point is that Dennet agreed with both premises and the conclusion, but argued that the universe caused itself which is impossible. Secondly, the first premise is necessarily true since it is logically impossible for nothing to cause anything. That applies to both tables and universes. To claim that the universe began to exist without a cause out of nothing is to argue for something that is both illogical and impossible.
Obviously he's sharpened up, but demonstrates the point, nobodies perfect.
Islam is natural, axiomatic. Doesn't require an "explanation". Atheism is a construct, and thus, needs explaining.
The burden of proof is actually on you.
Try not to spasm.
It is not even the burden of proof that I am afraid of. we are not desperately defending the flat earth theory here. Again, Islam is very logical...if only this dude was a little more cooperative and explained what exactly does not make sense in Islam according to him.
Instead, he gives us a vague description where to look for this issue...whatever tactics that may be.
May I remind you that you are the one coming here demanding an explanation for things that are not clear to you...So please explain or otherwise we are not able to help you.
Now, if I put in extra effort to follow your description and in "settings" I put the "amount of posts per page" on "forum default", then on page 7 I will find these posts of yours:
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
Yes, depends on how you look at it. An Atheist in general is the one who doesn't believe God exists, an agnostic is not sure.
In both cases we are talking about belief and belief is subjective and doesn't require proof.
- - - Updated - - -
Correct me if I'm wrong but in very few words, your belief is based on the absence of a real answer. In other words if you cannot find the answer then God has to be the answer.
God doesn't need to be proven since is based on FAITH.
I'm not here to criticize your faith nor religion but it is what it is.
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
Wow, it's totally the opposite. You have a lot to learn. An atheist is always looking for proven answers unlike you (religious people)
Statistics show that most scientists are atheists and scientists are always looking to find and prove things.
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
No, we would think you're a weirdo.
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
Wrong. Scientists try to prove anything that is not proven yet.
Scientists would love to find the explanation of how everything happened, but there's no reliable evidence God was what started it all.
You cannot see, touch, hear or smell God.
It doesn't make sense.
Created complex dna for every single creature on earth but still cannot figure out a good method of communication between him and every single human being.
You would think he should be able to snap a finger and send a global e-mail updating rules as times change.
Or even better send telepathic messages to every human being.
I could think of a million reasons why God doesn't make sense but I don't want to bore you.
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
Absolutely not.
Tell you what?
When I tell you what I believe about something that cannot be proven I'm just giving you my personal opinion.
Science cannot prove that God exists but that doesn't mean God doesn't exist.
Do you understand that?
Science is pretty bad when dealing with the metaphysical world and that is understandable.
We welcome all attempts to prove God, even using non scientific methods.
In my personal opinion the popular religions have failed to come close to a reasonable explanation of God.
Again, is my personal opinion.
If I was God I could have think many better ways rather than send prophets, but that is just me.
Method 1. Very simple, using telepathy.
Wouldn't have been much more productive to send direct telepathic messages to every human being on earth?
Who would have doubt the existence of God if every single person received the same message at the same time?
Are you saying that the one that created all couldn't create a telepathic way of communication with all human beings?
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
Why don't you explain it in a concise and not boring manner, maybe I can learn something new today.
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
Sorry but that is exactly my claim. It doesn't make any sense. I know it cannot be proven by current scientific methods but I do believe in the metaphysical world so there has to be some other way to prove it.
I haven't come across any convincing one.
Why do you think Islam makes sense?
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
No, a better approach would be for you to support your claim.
So if I swipe the endless gibberish away...it all boils down to the points we already had:
"God cannot be proven, so I do not believe."
and
"Could God not find a better way to communicate then to send prophets?"
It has nothing to do with sincerity, the "support your claim" technique is a widely used way of making the other person to open up first which is what you've been trying to do all along. So don't play victim now.
I already made it clear (page 7 on this thread) why Islam doesn't make sense, no need to keep repeating myself.
Read it and then if you feel like it explain why Islam makes sense to you.
Peace be upon those who accept guidance
Our job as Muslims is not to make you believe, only Allah can make you do that. Our job and our responsibility towards you is to convey the message so that is exactly what I'm going to do
The beliefs of Islam are simple. Allah is one he has no partners whatsoever. He sends prophets to convey his message to mankind. Some of these Messengers you are familiar with like Moses and jesus alayhis salam however the teachings they were sent with were corrupted by subsequent generations so Allah sent a final Messenger to mankind Muhammad sallaho alayhi wa sallam and revealed a book al Qurān
If you accept this message and die upon that then InshaAllah paradise will be your abode. If you reject then you are risking a fire whose fuel is men and stones
Now I'm guessing your reaction to this will be to turn away arrogantly and scoff but I'm cool with that, I've done my job but before you go let me share a verse from the Qurān with you. You want to know if Islam is true or not? Why don't you test this verse out
Allah subhanahu wa ta ala says (translation of meaning) And whoever turns away from My remembrance - indeed, he will have a depressed life, and We will gather him on the Day of Resurrection blind."
20:125
So when your life becomes miserable and it will, know that you can turn back to Allah in repentance and accept his religion or you can persist in misguidance and be punished in both the worlds
Peace be upon those who accept guidance
Oh and btw you should really try humble yourself. Arrogance may make you feel like you are great in your own eyes but to everyone else you're just a sad little man
To claim that the universe began to exist without a cause out of nothing is to argue for something that is both illogical and impossible.
Who are you to tell what's illogical and what's impossible?
But for argument sake let's follow your logic.
NOTHING BEGINS WITHOUT A CAUSE that's your premise, isn't it?
Problem number 1. Who created God? NOTHING BEGINS WITHOUT A CAUSE, that should include God too.
And who created what created God, and so forth.
Let's go step by step.
Answer that and we'll go to step 2.
So if I swipe the endless gibberish away...
it all boils down to the points we already had:
"God cannot be proven, so I do not believe. "and" Could God not find a better way to communicate then to send prophets?
"anything else? or did I miss anything?
Well, somewhere along the thread I also said I could find a million reasons why Islam doesn't make sense.
I also said I'm not here to impose my belief nor to adopt yours that's why I have been reluctant to go deep into the subject.
You hinted you could explain it as you've done in the past but you seem hesitant and afraid of wasting your time.
I don't blame you, I cannot promise you, your arguments would convince me.
format_quote Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi
The beliefs of Islam are simple. Allah is one he has no partners whatsoever. He sends prophets to convey his message to mankind .....
Thanks for your post and explanation and although I admire your faith I still see no reason to believe.
Well, somewhere along the thread I also said I could find a million reasons why Islam doesn't make sense.
I also said I'm not here to impose my belief nor to adopt yours that's why I have been reluctant to go deep into the subject.
You hinted you could explain it as you've done in the past but you seem hesitant and afraid of wasting your time.
I don't blame you, I cannot promise you, your arguments would convince me.
Yes İ've hinted that...but İ have to back up on this...İ've seen the level of your way of arguing...İ cannot handle that...İ am sorry...
Well, somewhere along the thread I also said I could find a million reasons why Islam doesn't make sense.
I also said I'm not here to impose my belief nor to adopt yours that's why I have been reluctant to go deep into the subject.
You hinted you could explain it as you've done in the past but you seem hesitant and afraid of wasting your time.
I don't blame you, I cannot promise you, your arguments would convince me.
Thanks for your post and explanation and although I admire your faith I still see no reason to believe.
Have you ever read a copy of the translation of the Quran?
“Allah gave you a gift of 86,000 seconds today, have you used one to say ‘Alhamdulilah"
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