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View Poll Results: Do you hate modern Western culture?

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  1. #1
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    Do you hate modern Western culture? (OP)


    This is a generic message that I plan to post to all forums where I am subscribed. My dominant passion in life is my hatred of modern Western culture which I consider to be pure evil. There is no point for me to participate in any forum where no one shares my view of modern Western culture. Therefore I am asking - Does anyone here hate modern Western culture? If not, I will leave this forum.

  2. #41
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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

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    Salaam

    Quote Originally Posted by CarefulThinker View Post

    Traditional family structure is being eradicated, and so are the moral foundations, and thing is, it is spreading. Not long ago I read up on this "Theybies" concept, where parents allow their children to choose their own gender? Is this for real?
    The breakdown of the family system is a major sign of civilizational decline. One element in creating stong cultures, societies, civilizations is to have robust family structures.

    When you dont.

    So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Of course.

    And from the Byzantine east.
    Originally Posted by Procopius

    The ladies of the court at this time were nearly all of abandoned morals. They ran no risk in being faithless to their husbands, as the sin brought no penalty: even if caught in the act, they were unpunished, for all they had to do was to go to the Empress, claim the charge was not proven, and start a countersuit against their husbands. The latter, defeated without a trial, had to pay a fine of twice the dower, and were usually whipped and sent to prison; and the next time they saw their adulterous wives again, the ladies would be daintily entertaining their lovers more openly than ever. Indeed, many of the latter gained promotion and pay for their amorous services. After one such experience, most men who suffered these outrages from their wives preferred thereafter to be complaisant instead of being whipped, and gave them every liberty rather than seem to be spying on their affairs.
    Hah I see feminism is is not a new phenomena.

    This is relevant to the debate, like to share.

    Blurb

    What is Western civilisation? What is the point of a great civilisation? Jonathan Bowden talks about the spirit of Western Europe, manifest in its religion, art and cultural figures.

    Last edited by Junon; 12-25-2018 at 07:59 PM.

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Hah I see feminism is is not a new phenomena.
    Feminism is not new at all. It was present in most decaying cultures in history. It is described in the Old Testament by Isaiah. Aristophanes ridiculed feminism in Ancient Athens. It was present in the Abbasid Caliphate. This is briefly described here:

    http://www.mikraite.org/file/n16/fate.pdf

    But the strongest evidence comes from the book "Sex and Culture".

    https://archive.org/details/b20442580

    https://www.amazon.com/SEX-CULTURE-J...dp/B000K7AQFC/

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Salaam

    Ah that book been meaning to get a hold of that for some time, thanks for the links, I'll be checking it out in due time. Its a phenomena that needs careful study. Correct me if Im wrong it usually starts of with reasonable and legimitate demands (no big secret that men throughout the ages have abused their position of power) but as it progresses its demands become more and more 'radical'. Perhaps they are trying create a matriarchy? Also of interest how corporate capitalism and state power created/coopted this movement for their own benefit. (didnt the Roman empire co-opt women to keep men 'under control' at one point?)

    Some feminists really do live in fantasy land.



    The harm it can do to ordinary men is something doesn’t bear thinking about.

    e.g. Johnathan Bowden is one guy who predicted the rise of the emasculated men, soyboys.



    Having said all that women do speak out against this movement (Erin Pizzey has been a relentless opponent) and plenty of male authors are giving very sharp critiques.

    More on the problems of modernity. Similar to what GK Chesterton was saying earlier.

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Correct me if Im wrong it usually starts of with reasonable and legimitate demands (no big secret that men throughout the ages have abused their position of power) but as it progresses its demands become more and more 'radical'. Perhaps they are trying create a matriarchy?
    We are unlikely to agree on the cause because I base my thinking on evolution. Basically once punishment for adultery is removed then it becomes in women's evolutionary self-interest to become s-l-u-t-s and feminism is basically a s-l-u-t movement. But what I think we would agree on is that Islam solves the problem in a fair and balanced way. Islam protects women's rights while encouraging modesty and appropriately punishing adultery with a hundred lashes. This should prevent feminism.

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Salaam

    Ah that book been meaning to get a hold of that for some time, thanks for the links, I'll be checking it out in due time. Its a phenomena that needs careful study. Correct me if Im wrong it usually starts of with reasonable and legimitate demands (no big secret that men throughout the ages have abused their position of power) but as it progresses its demands become more and more 'radical'. Perhaps they are trying create a matriarchy? Also of interest how corporate capitalism and state power created/coopted this movement for their own benefit. (didnt the Roman empire co-opt women to keep men 'under control' at one point?)

    Some feminists really do live in fantasy land.



    The harm it can do to ordinary men is something doesn’t bear thinking about.

    e.g. Johnathan Bowden is one guy who predicted the rise of the emasculated men, soyboys.



    Having said all that women do speak out against this movement (Erin Pizzey has been a relentless opponent) and plenty of male authors are giving very sharp critiques.

    More on the problems of modernity. Similar to what GK Chesterton was saying earlier.

    The problem with that illusionist who believes in gender equality is that it is literally impossible for boys and girls to be equal.

    A) Biological factor of the sexes renders that impossible.
    B) There can never be equality in the same gender itself so how can there be equality in two different worlds
    C) Equality is impossible to be had and that is communist and communism never works

    Look at their laws and it is completely against feminism concept of equality and when gender favoritism of the female sex is had the feminism is highly quiet. False allegation of rape and family break up and female having 100% custodial right of children even if she is lesbian or abusive does not seem to cause feminism to go in rally for gender equality so that males have 50% of custodial rights in the world as mothers do. Feminism does not seem to go to media and say how bad mothers are for killing their children to avoid the father having custody to them when the judge says the father have custodial rights.

    Feminism is not posting pictures of baby boys or boys saying underneath the sad face of a boy "They are humans too! Boys rock! Boys contribute to society etc" when the majority of failures in school are boys.

    I will take feminism with my hand...throw it to the floor and with my boot step on it and hear it crunch away as I keep stepping hard on it. I will take the half of feminism and place it in the shredder machine as the machine grinds away and shred it to thousand pieces. The last piece of feminism I will drop oil on it and light it to flames as the flame crackles away and eats through the final piece of feminism.

    I will only obey Allah and his prophets and Allah said the male and the female are not like each other and he wants to glorify him FOR THE DIFFERENCE AND BEAUTY of the sexes and that males ARE FLOWERS to admire and females are FLOWERS to admire and to maximize the ability of the sexes and push for masculinity and push for femininity and then have those two genders hold hand and hand and work together as a strong community. The man is the cloth for the woman and the woman is the cloth for the man. Both work to protect the defective of each gender and let the non-defective side shine to form a complete one whole person. A man acting feminine should be discourage and admonished at all cost even if it means saying to boys, "Oooh! You are acting like a little girl" and make fun of him (not to insult girls) for one purpose alone..to shame him from that act so he act masculine but at the same time telling him..he is not superior to the female..BUT he is different than her and she have abilities she can do better than you and you both need to work together as one. Same goes for girls...don't say "AH! You can do the same job like a man and better" and tell her..ooh how strong you are..you are doing the same job as a man and better than and acting masculine for a girl is a positive attribute....same should be done for her to discourage to act masculine "Ooh you are acting like a boy" Feminism says this is wrong..I say to feminism you ca...erm...anyways....GENDER DIFFERENCE IS BEAUTIFUL and natural...


    this....this in Western world is unnatural.....China by the way...knows this....in China they separate boys from girls to prevent boys been feminized and build into them honor, bravery and masculine attribute. Allah (SWT) did not create the Y chromosome and created testosterone and altered the female baby to have boy brain and altered the female baby to become a boy baby through flooding of testosterone hormone ..just so when that she became a he to end up acting she again.....

  9. #46
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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Salaam

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you fschmidt;



    Joining a good religion is a start, but we should do more in society than attend religious services.



    Ok, I am a member of a bad religion in your opinion, but I actively do things to help the homeless, I help people with addiction problems. We are part of a group that opened up a basics food bank in our area, we have opened up two homeless shelters and much more in recent years.

    We need to do more than make judgements about other groups of people, we have to do something to make a difference.

    Blessings
    Eric
    This is laudable, but is being a 'good' person and 'good' works is enough? Seems like many Christians have embraced a type liberal indifferentism when it comes to their faith, one of the main reasons why Christianity has gone into such decline (UK).

    The liberal/leftist wing from within/outwith your Church who encourage this 'indifferentism' dont practice it when it comes to proselytising their worldviews, odd that. . . . .but then perhaps that was part of the 'plan'.

    Mill's thought as a coherent whole with a specific proselytising purpose, geared to the emasculation of Christianity and its replacement by a libertarian public doctrine.


    Yeah I know its Milo but this is relevant.

    Blurb

    MILO YIANNOPOULOS HAS EXPERIENCED THE MORAL DECAY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FIRST-HAND. NOW HE WANTS TO FIX IT—STARTING WITH POPE FRANCIS.Who is the real Pope Francis? And can the Church survive him? Milo Yiannopoulos traces the origins of the Church’s descent into sin and shame, pointing the finger at left-wing reformers, trendy progressive bishops, gay clergy, and ultimately, Francis himself.

    In DIABOLICAL, Milo Yiannopoulos levels his critical eye and legendarily caustic wit at the Catholic Church, an institution he reveres but which, under the leadership of a “Lavender Mafia” of left-wing gay bishops, has become shambolic and depraved. Yes, there really is a gay mafia. And yes, their outfits are fabulous.The Catholic Church hasn’t had a crisis like this since the Reformation. It won’t survive unless it learns how to talk to men again, sets aside transitory political nostrums like environmentalism and identity politics, and gets back to worshiping Almighty God.


    Last edited by Junon; 01-01-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  10. #47
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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    This is a generic message that I plan to post to all forums where I am subscribed. My dominant passion in life is my hatred of modern Western culture which I consider to be pure evil. There is no point for me to participate in any forum where no one shares my view of modern Western culture. Therefore I am asking - Does anyone here hate modern Western culture? If not, I will leave this forum.
    It is not nice to hate someone's culture. Do you like whe somone hates your culture? Of course not, so please, try to learn to accept others's cultures and take them as something you can learn for self development. Without culture, how do you expect us to develope? We humans need to learn little bit from everywhere as much as we can so that we can feed our brains. What are the things that makes you hate western cultures?
    | Likes DanEdge liked this post

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Salaam

    Another update.




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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Interesting photo. The way the picture is stylized, the woman reading the magazine is depicted as the defiant hero, not as a moral degenerate.

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Salaam

    Quote Originally Posted by DanEdge View Post
    Interesting photo. The way the picture is stylized, the woman reading the magazine is depicted as the defiant hero, not as a moral degenerate.
    Yeah thats the point, shes obviously been 'liberated' from her 'servitude', this tired old trope.. . . . .

    Muslim women of twitter have been very critical, they consider it very patronising.











    Not to forget.





    To sum up.



    Last edited by Junon; 01-04-2019 at 11:46 AM.

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Salaam

    Relevant like to share. One explanation for the genesis of modernity.



    Moderns starting to realize how inhumanly difficult their morality is

    Modern morality is often thought of as a deliverance from the harshness of past moral codes. But that’s only because we don’t take it seriously. If we do, then it is absolutely inhuman in its demands, a sprit-crushing, insatiable monstrosity, whether modern morals are taken in their Kantian-personalist or, especially, in their utilitarian form. Can you imagine being required to maximize the total happiness of mankind, never treat anyone as a mere means, or value everyone on Earth’s happiness equally with your own every moment of every day? Every human good would be strangled, and no one could ever be happy again. One begins to appreciate that the legalism and casuistry of pre-modern morality functioned not to burden mankind but to us from the hell of unbounded altruism.

    This has not gone unnoticed by the moderns. See this review of Susan Wolf’s “Moral saints”, namely an argument against trying to become one. Wolf appeals to all the “non-moral” goods that can only be preserved if we limit our commitment to modern morality. Interestingly, the reviewer, Daniel Callcut, points out that one way to escape from the dilemma would be to return to pre-modern virtue ethics, in which an altruism restricted to neighbors is held in balance with other goods as parts of a comprehensive good life, and he notes that Wolf rejects this option. Wolf is left to construct a solution which limits universalist altruism while granting it the monopoly on morality it has had in modern thought.

    She must claim that we should be somewhat altruistic but that we should not aspire to “moral sainthood”, i.e. allow the admitted demands of morality to entirely structure our lives and crowd out other goods. Indeed, I agree that one should not allow utilitarian ethics to ruin one’s life, but I see no way to coherently assert this while admitting utilitarian ethics. One is applying to a “should” which is more authoritative than the “should” of morality, but such a thing cannot exist. The ruling “should” is one’s true morality, and it’s better to make it explicit.

    https://bonald.wordpress.com/2018/12...r-morality-is/
    Last edited by Junon; 01-06-2019 at 09:28 PM.

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Greeting and peace be with you Eric H and fschmidt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    but I actively do things to help the homeless, I help people with addiction problems. We are part of a group that opened up a basics food bank in our area, we have opened up two homeless shelters and much more in recent years.
    Alhamdulillah, glad to hear what you and your group do for needy people. Hopefuly it will inspire Muslims to do kindness like this too.


    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    This society is evil and God will wipe it out. Decent people have no business involving themselves in this society in any way, including helping them.
    What would you do if you saw a blind man walking towards a cliff? Would you let him fall without you doing anything? Or you would move to lead him to the right path?

    I have seen and met many people who behave sinfully. but I never thought God misled them. God never misleads anyone. But it is we who often mislead ourselves.

    People who are misguided are like a blind person walking towards a cliff. They walked on the wrong path because their hearts were blind. And it is our duty to open their hearts and guide them to the right path.

  17. #53
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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Greetings and peace be with you Dan,

    Quote Originally Posted by DanEdge View Post
    Interesting photo. The way the picture is stylized, the woman reading the magazine is depicted as the defiant hero, not as a moral degenerate.
    On the surface, this picture seems harmless enough, but its message is clearly to push the boundaries. What would the next picture show, the boundaries would have to be pushed a little further to have an impact. Would the woman be wearing a short skirt and a low cut top? How could you do a follow up from this, what boundaries could you push further?

    When it becomes acceptable to break the seemingly little laws, the more important bigger laws will soon become under threat.

    In the spirit of searching for the laws of God,
    Eric
    Do you hate modern Western culture?

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanEdge View Post
    Interesting photo. The way the picture is stylized, the woman reading the magazine is depicted as the defiant hero, not as a moral degenerate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    On the surface, this picture seems harmless enough, but its message is clearly to push the boundaries. What would the next picture show, the boundaries would have to be pushed a little further to have an impact. Would the woman be wearing a short skirt and a low cut top? How could you do a follow up from this, what boundaries could you push further?
    That picture was taken from "Changing your perspective" advertisement by Reporter magazine. And this just one from three picture in that ad campaign. You can see two other pictures in this link : https://www.collater.al/en/changing-...ter-magazines/
    | Likes Eric H, DanEdge liked this post

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Greetings and peace be with you ardianto;

    That picture was taken from "Changing your perspective" advertisement by Reporter magazine. And this just one from three picture in that ad campaign. You can see two other pictures in this link : https://www.collater.al/en/changing-...ter-magazines/
    Thanks for the link, I preferred the other two pictures of the lone person walking away from a riot and war.

    Blessings
    Eric
    | Likes ardianto liked this post
    Do you hate modern Western culture?

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you ardianto;



    Thanks for the link, I preferred the other two pictures of the lone person walking away from a riot and war.

    Blessings
    Eric
    You preferred the lone person walking away from riot and war and killing vs a woman walking away from wearing modesty and protecting her private parts and obeying Allah (SWT) so she can attain high level of paradise?


    BEAUTIFUL!
    | Likes DanEdge liked this post

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Salaam

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    We are unlikely to agree on the cause because I base my thinking on evolution. Basically once punishment for adultery is removed then it becomes in women's evolutionary self-interest to become s-l-u-t-s and feminism is basically a s-l-u-t movement. But what I think we would agree on is that Islam solves the problem in a fair and balanced way. Islam protects women's rights while encouraging modesty and appropriately punishing adultery with a hundred lashes. This should prevent feminism.
    Im not big on evo psych explanations, it gives insight but too reductive. Also we have to be careful in the language we use. Without constraints, morals, codes, standards of behaviour either sex will abuse the advantages they can get. With men its transparent but we are now becoming more aware of how women can abuse the system for their benefit (feminised family courts, (US) aliomony laws etc). We must not forget capitalist classes and the state had their own interests in pushing the feminist ideoolgy (Captialists, women in workforce, families arent conducive to profit making, the state wanted to get rid of the family because its an impredement to their control of society). Plus we shouldnt forget the impace of ideas (leftism etc).

    Having said all that we have to acknowledge that societies have changed and we have to make reasonable adjustments.

    I agree with the last part Marriage needs to have legal force (eg. adultery needs to be sanctioned.)

    I think its important that men and women both work together to create better families and societies, where husaband and wife can have good relations, children can be raised in a safe enviorment, elderly can be looked after and your kin can be supported etc. Difficult I know but can be done.
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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Greetings,

    While I don't always agree with you guys on any given point, I love to see the back and forth discussion on this forum. As a religious group, I've found that Muslims are particularly logical in their thinking and applications of principles. This may be why I've gotten my tail whipped at chess by so many Muslims. I'm telling you: don't ever go up against a Turkish or Iranian chess player thinking you are going to win. They're like the Russian and Indian chess players, constantly looking 5 moves ahead while I'm only seeing 2 to 4.



    --Dan Edge

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    According to people in the East, the difference between "Modern" and "Western" is only on who say this word. If the youths dress like rock star, playing music loudly, they call it as "modern". While parents who see it are shaking their heads and say "oh no!, those youths are really Westernized!"

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    Re: Do you hate modern Western culture?

    Salaam

    Another update. the Moderns are prosletysing again, and what do they attack? the bedrock of an Islamic society, the family. How surprising .



    The Delusion of Individualism Spreading to the Muslim World

    If you thought the Muslim world was safe from the extreme individualism and hedonism of the West, think again. Westernized Muslims are pushing these destructive values in Muslim newspapers around the world. One recent example comes from Morocco World News, where Houda rants about the “cultural” emphasis on marriage and child rearing:

    I have decided to write this after having gone through quite a bit of criticism over the past few months (or is it years, I don’t remember). My ideas and beliefs are apparently so outlandish that people around me feel obliged to criticize me and “wake me up” from my “delusions.” Am I an alien who needs to be taken back to its planet, or am I simply, harmlessly different?

    My “unforgivable,” bizarre ideas often revolve around me trying to convince people that marriage and/or having children is not made for everybody. Marriage and procreating are first and foremost choices; choices that no single person has a say in, except he/she who wants to or does not want to get married and procreate.

    We know from Allah and his Messenger ﷺ that one of Iblis’ tactics, when it comes to leading astray the human being, is to whisper things to him until he can’t differentiate between his own thoughts and the whisperings of the Devil. Here, the author is under the delusion that she is arguing for something special and unheard of when, in fact, she is just regurgitating the talking points of the noxious modernist dogmas. This delusion of choice as superseding all else is the rotten fruit of the pernicious indoctrination that we’ve all been victims of through multiple means, from secular state education to various forms of entertainment. Such ideas are shoved down our throats by the most politically dominant entity of our era, Western imperialism, and have been used as a justification to invade and colonize the Muslim world for more than two centuries. Once ideals of individual choice settle into the heart, one will inevitably start to feel disdain towards Islamic values, which do not have such a self-centered emphasis.

    Society and its constituents have placed norms and constraints on our lives to the point where most of us follow the crowd, abide by many unwritten rules and bury our real desires somewhere deep down, just to fit in. Well, as much as it is a choice not to question who put those boundaries on our lifestyles and where they come from, isn’t it also a choice not to conform? Not to want what everybody else wants?

    The institution of marriage is clearly a major part of Islam. Making a case against it and, thus, contributing to its decline isn’t just challenging a culture. Rather, it is tantamount to arguing against the way of life that God revealed for our own salvation and fulfillment.

    Let’s clarify something. When we label a practice as “cultural,” we are merely saying that this practice can be found among this given group of people. In other words, any social practice can be labelled as “cultural.” The potential problem with such categorization is that it can detach practices from their origins, deeper meanings, and significations. We must keep in mind that ultimately “cultural practices” have their roots in the way(s) of life (Dīn) of the individuals that compose such a society. We must avoid two extremes: 1) To blindly assume that every single facet of a Muslim culture is from Islam, and 2) To blindly assume that not a single facet of a Muslim culture is from Islam. The truth is, some “cultural” practices are grounded in Islam and others are not. As Muslims, we must make sure that what is being labelled as a “cultural” practice isn’t a part of Islam before critiquing or discarding it, otherwise we are attacking Islam unknowingly.

    Yet, here we have a Muslim writer attacking marriage as a “cultural” byproduct. Is this mere confusion and ignorance? Or is it a manifestation of the colonial project to undermine Islamic values and supplant them with the liberal emphasis on individual choice at all costs?

    Going back to the topic of getting married, I strongly believe that for self-made, well-established, independent human beings, marriage is not a priority anymore. A lot of people want to focus more on their personal and professional development rather than spend their time and energy on a relationship that may or may not work out in the end.


    The author fancies herself unique because she is by breaking off from the herd of people wanting to get married. Ironically, the global trend is people not wanting to get married, so she isn’t unique or special at all. Nonetheless, she argues that an individualistic lifestyle is incompatible with marriage… Well, of course an individualistic lifestyle isn’t going to sit well with marriage or any kind of meaningful relationship for that matter! Prioritizing yourself over others is not a recipe for successfully connecting with other human beings. The real question is: Is an individualistic lifestyle fulfilling? Will it lead to happiness and contentment?

    The answer is a resounding “No!” Human beings aren’t individualistic by psychological and sociological necessity. Our need for love and belongingness as well as many of our physiological needs require deep and meaningful relationships in order to be fulfilled. Sexual needs for example. Unless you want to live a life of sexual frustration or meaningless, debased fornication, you have no choice but to get married. The love and mercy that Allah places in the hearts of legitimately married couples are the antithesis of this individualistic pursuit of personal hedonistic satisfaction.

    Ultimately, this is exactly what individualism calls towards: The perpetual repression and misdirection of our authentic human desires, e.g., for marriage, for childbearing, for loving families, etc., and the implantation of artificial desires, e.g., for career, endless personal choice, individual satisfaction, etc. Islam, in stark contrast, recognizes authentic human needs and is, thus, perfectly in line with human nature for the simple reason that Islam was sent by the One who created human nature in the first place. Allah sent guidance for our own betterment and fulfillment, fulfillment that can never be attained in the cold, desolate dystopia of modernist individualism.

    “And Allah wants to lighten for you [your difficulties]; and mankind was created weak.”
    Quran: 4:28

    https://muslimskeptic.com/2019/01/14...-muslim-world/
    Last edited by Junon; 01-15-2019 at 12:37 AM.


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