Salam, I'm a new member. Actually I came by because I saw [a reddit thread-removed]
Here hundreds of muslim women say they are dating/marrying non-muslim men.
Personally, I don't know muslim women a lot but is this how a lot of muslim women think and want? Please no censorship, I just want to know the truth, that's it.
Last edited by *charisma*; 01-31-2019 at 09:25 PM.
Reason: islamically misleading content
I wrote a very long msg but erased it again.I am going to tell you a story instead.
Not everyone who has a hijab is a muslim.I came across an ex muslim group online once,they were young people,wearing hijab,going to masjid,fasting. But they were only doing this cuz of the fear from their parents.Those girls had hijab,if you saw them in real life youd be like ohh ma shaa Allah what a good muslim girl.But then online they would talk in a similar or worst way than those in non muslim groups. The thing those girls were saying about non muslim boys,or about their boyfriends,were disgusting.And then there was talk about religion where they couldnt stand praying or they would eat in secret and pretending to fast in ramadhan.
Their names were mostly shirk,one of the boys had put his name as Allah (astagfirullah)
Then there was another one,always going to the masjid but couldnt stand praying,he was only doing it because of his father.
They couldnt wait for their parents to die or to be independent so they wouldnt have to follow islam.
Some of them lived in places like saudi,so there would marry muslims and pretend to be muslims all their lives cuz they had no choice,but online and in secret would show their true self.
This wasnt a small group,it was big with people joinng and leaving everyday,and there are other groups like this and other people like them.who dont join this groups or have no means or time to access the internet.
So not everyone who wears a hijab is a muslim,not everyone born to muslim parents its a muslim.People have tons of reasons to act fake.I act fake too like a non muslim but when am alone am the contrary,so do they.In the streets youd think they are muslims but deep down they are not,they are just faking for a reason,and bring up exuses like this one "im marrying to conver him".Every muslim knows that doesnt happen.Allah can guide people only,there is no ensurance that just by talking about islam people will be guided.
Anyway,to answer your question,i think 0% of muslims date non muslims,except some very few cases where shaytan tricked them and now they are in love and dont have the power to break off it.Which its very sad and hard and may Allah make it easy for them to get out of that situaton.
But overall,no muslim girl would ever date a muslim,let alone a non muslim.
You seem to confuse muslim women with women who SAY they are muslim.
If a woman says she is muslim, but then goes on telling you that she never prays, never goes to the mosque, says that she eats pork, drinks alcohol and she also wears the most revealing cloths imaginable. Is she really muslim? I think not. She might says she is and she might be from a muslim family or muslim culture. But that is all.
As for women saying "I will marry him to convert him", maybe they say it, but it means they are not following Alllah's word.They are either confused or simply trying to make an excuse as to why they are disobeying. Be careful of what people say on social media. As that is usually far from the truth and just vanity.
This wasnt a small group,it was big with people joinng and leaving everyday,and there are other groups like this and other people like them.who dont join this groups or have no means or time to access the internet.
I understanding, you're talking about Munafiqs. That is true what you say, but the particulars you mention are quite extreme.
But about the quote, I will sya if you meet a 1000 people online, you would I you've met a LOT of people. But it is not so. And it is abnormals who scream, normal people are dormant.
In my country, highest suscribed YT channel has 74k, highest suscribed Islamic channel has over 2 million. Same with every country. Ex-muslims scream a lot to get attention, and do blasphemy to get back at Islam. But they are losers.
But since my country is 85% muslim, actually a lot of muslim girls date other muslim guys. Sometime ago, I used to be critical, but now looking at how it is in the west, I overlook this telling myself, "Welp, atleast they are both muslims and happy."
(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
Hope you're doing awesome, Dan. It is nice to see you posting here on Islamicboard.
If Allah (God) wills, I wanted to answer your implicit question and the other query to the best of my abilities.
I agree with you that love is a very powerful force. Therefore, I find it no surprise that one of Allah's (God's) 99 names is Al-Wadud, meaning, "The Loving." Indeed, Allah (God) is the author of all love. Without love, there would be no mercy or affinity among human beings. God is not oppressive of the desire to love or be loved. However, God desires that we as human beings understand what is love and to whom we should give that love which springs in our hearts. In Islam, a man or a woman is not simply a physical being. That person has a heavenly personality, that is, the soul, which desires to be set free. Given that each human being has been given a responsibility to discover and know this heavenly personality which resides within us, any block spiritually is devastation for the hereafter. And therefore, it is important for a believer to invest that love into God first. When that divine love truly takes root in the the heart of the believer first, that love then is able to be channeled into love for human beings. And when that love for all human beings is then properly funneled into a mate picked for life, then that person is likely to see that companion as a human being and honored creation of God first whom one should treat with love and then secondarily as a companion about whom the Qur'an (2:187) says, "They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them." This beautiful verse makes clear the husband-wife relationship is to be the most intimate of relationships wherein both have the responsibility of another to cover, protect, and safeguard the interests of the other, to move in grace as analogically the garment moves as one with the body and is loved to be worn for practical as well as impractical reasons like beautifying the person (in the case of spousal relationship enabling the beautification of the inward and outward character of the person).
This relationship will thereby be inherently unbalanced if a Muslim woman pursues it with a non-Muslim no matter how kind or nice the non-Muslim man is for the reasons that he will most likely not have mutual interest in helping her maintain specific obligations for the purposes of her faith in God: For example, a believing woman is restricted from have intercourse during her menstrual cycle, and a nonbeliever is less likely to understand or feel obliged to follow that restriction. A believing woman is obliged to fast in the month of Shahru Ramadan from sunrise to sunset and cannot have intercourse during that time, and a nonbeliever is less likely to understand or feel obliged to allow her that freedom to be free from his sexual advances for that given time period. Also, a Muslim woman must make ablution before praying and must be in that ritualistic state of purity when commencing prayer, which means she also cannot indulge his sexual play whenever she is about to pray. Also, a believer is not to engage in anal sex, which might not be able to be understood from a nonbeliever's point of view.
Furthermore, a Muslim woman must raise her children in Islam, because it is a matter of both her and her children's hereafter; this might also likely be a point of contention in such a marriage; and even if an agreement is reached about the children being raised in Islam, it is likely the children will be confused about or grow distant from Islam seeing the father not following Islam. Moreover, in Islam, a believer has to pay zakat, obligatory payment made annually under Islamic law on certain kinds of property, to the poor and needy, which is essentially a wealth tax; and a nonbeliever might be less inclined to see that obligation as serving the household's combined financial interests. Also, a believing woman is obliged to make pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in her lifetime to wash away her sins; and she will be unable to travel alongside a non-believing partner to do so, because non-Muslims are not allowed to enter the sacred place in Mecca. She will have to bear the hardships of journeying without a trusted partner to engage in the same goal. These things might seem small right at the outset when the embers of love first begin to grow, but, as you may know, love does not always remain the passionate love of the first stage in a romantic relationship but transforms into a more knowing and comfortable kind of love later; and in that other stage, what might have seemed small then in the beginning is likely to grow into big differences or annoyances which have the power to break a loving relationship. And a relationship, from an Islamic standpoint, which did not build its foundation on the mutual love of God, which is considered primordial and eternal, is then less likely to last when temporal cracks appear.
And you are right; Muslims are allowed to marry the chase and righteous from among the People of the Book, but that is a permission granted only to Muslim men. I understand this might seem discriminatory at the outset, but given what I've told you of what Islam requires of believers, I think you'll be able to see why that permission is granted to Muslim men only. A Muslim man, even if he marries a wife from among the People of the Book, will be expected to refrain from intercourse with her during her menstrual cycles and to not engage in intercourse when he's fasting for Shahru Ramadan and never engage in anal sex. He will be able to make the journey to Mecca and make pilgrimage without feeling burdened by the hardships of the journey that a woman unaccompanied by a spousal partner might feel. He may give zakat without secondary thought, especially as still households around the globe still witness men generally taking care of the bulk of finances; however, a Muslim woman, especially if she is financially dependent as a housewife, might in the same arrangement not even be in position of bargaining to pay her obligation of zakat if she has a non-Muslim partner not so inclined.
In our time, there are undoubtedly some Muslim women, who in their lack of reflection on this matter more deeply, simply see the permission granted to men as an injustice against their own gender; however, if they truly began to reflect on what a marriage consists of in terms of sacrifices required, they'd realize that Islam is not preventing them from finding or acquiring the love they feel they deserve but is protecting them from unique harms that might emerge from such a marriage from the perspective of security for here and hereafter. And to be honest, if a Muslim woman truly believes in and loves God as per Islam, she is less likely to lust after the love of a man who does not believe in the same, because there would be no mutual foundation upon which to build the bridge to the hereafter in a partnership not based on the same. And even if she does happen to lust after the love of such a man, she will give up that love, for the sake of God. That is why believers remind themselves in prayer and outside of prayer, "AllahuAkbar," that is, "God is Greater."
Peace Be Upon Those Who Follow Guidance
Sincere Regards & Best Wishes,
Greetings Lady,
As usual, your response was brilliant, thorough, poignant, and to the point. Your writing has gotten better over the past few years. I note and appreciate your ability to change tone to more effectively communicate to different individuals.
Your friend,
--Dan
Last edited by *charisma*; 02-01-2019 at 04:46 PM.
Reason: inappropriateness to opposite gender not allowed, even in jest
“I'm asking how many break the ruling. Recently social media influencers like ..... have promoted marriage between Muslim women and non-muslim men.
And I had a look at the comments, far from criticizing her, many Muslim women came to support her, many were with hijab in their profile pic. They were saying comments like "It is our right to marry who we like."
So that I was curious on the truth (hence my user name) on this matter. Do a lot of Muslim women in the West want to marry non-muslim men? If so, what percentage of them in estimate?”
Anyone can take a pic wearing hijab, give themselves a Muslim screen name, and hey presto, there are lots of Muslim women who want to marry non-Muslim men. You have no idea who is sitting behind that computer screen, tablet or phone. Even though the figure of even those compared to the worlds population of Muslims will be peanuts.
Figures don’t have much relevance, and we’ve not been taught to quantify sins. It is what we can actually do that’s important. Understanding the ruling, so that we can inform and educate and help if we come across someone about to go into that scenario, no matter what the figures might be, and in some cases, perhaps that education and understanding that will save our own selves too.
actually a lot of muslim girls date other muslim guys. Sometime ago, I used to be critical, but now looking at how it is in the west, I overlook this telling myself, "Welp, atleast they are both muslims and happy."
We are not ones to overlook. It is only Allah who can overlook sins should He choose to do so.
There isn’t a concept of well at least it’s this sin so it doesn’t matter as much as that sin. Even if those committing the sin are Muslim and happy doing it.
Last edited by Insaanah; 02-01-2019 at 04:46 PM.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
Its mostly because of the popularity of the white guys rather then non muslim. Western cultural imperialism has succesfully promoted the white race to be more desirable.
There is a problem to this. You say Allah abiding women won't.
But there are religious women who date non-muslim men, hoping to convert them.
I did say Allah-abiding, so if they are dating, they are not abiding Allah. What a "religious" person is can be relative to each individual which is why we need to look at what is considered religious by Allah's standards, not our own. I don't know of any religious women by standards of Islam who would even consider nonMuslims. Yes, we may talk to nonMuslims about Islam or find a way to help them if they are truly interested (dawah), but that is not really considered dating. There is no validity in a Muslimah's marriage to a nonMuslim man. She would be living in zina which is a major sin, as well as disobeying the parents which is another great sin. By those standards, I'd think that no matter how outwardly "religious" a girl is I cannot fathom that living in zina, the disobedience against the parents, and mostly the disobedience against Allah would still consider her as religious. Our love and obedience is to Allah is first and foremost. To leave all that behind for one of his disbelieving creations is not really ideal. There may be individual cases where a pious girl truly does somehow find herself attracted to a nonMuslim guy but I'd probably say the way this would happen is if she lives in a community where there are not many Muslims and the guy has admirable and respectable qualities that she'd like to see in a potential husband or who truly is interested in converting. But again this is probably rare and individualistic and I still would think that such a girl would still becareful and protect herself from making any grave mistakes. No one is perfect, but the difference is being conscious of our sins and truly repenting.
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format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Its mostly because of the popularity of the white guys rather then non muslim. Western cultural imperialism has succesfully promoted the white race to be more desirable.
While this is true, I don't think it has much to do with physical attraction. If you don't have a sense of self and core beliefs, you're easily persuaded by the ideas around you. There are muslim/hindu marriages in India for example which are absolutely forbidden Islamically for both genders.
We are not ones to overlook. It is only Allah who can overlook sins should He choose to do so.
There isn’t a concept of well at least it’s this sin so it doesn’t matter as much as that sin. Even if those committing the sin are Muslim and happy doing it.
I'm just talking from personal perspective, not from the perspective of religious ruling. Besides atleast if they get to know muslim guys, atleast they won't we are programmed robots and that the grass isn't greener on the other side. Also, girls back in the very 1st year who wear feminists, now have calmed down after having male friends (just friends, don't take it in another way).
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format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Its mostly because of the popularity of the white guys rather then non muslim. Western cultural imperialism has succesfully promoted the white race to be more desirable.
So......the solution is to defeat them in war and conquer their lands like in the past?
I understanding, you're talking about Munafiqs. That is true what you say, but the particulars you mention are quite extreme.
But about the quote, I will sya if you meet a 1000 people online, you would I you've met a LOT of people. But it is not so. And it is abnormals who scream, normal people are dormant.
In my country, highest suscribed YT channel has 74k, highest suscribed Islamic channel has over 2 million. Same with every country. Ex-muslims scream a lot to get attention, and do blasphemy to get back at Islam. But they are losers.
But since my country is 85% muslim, actually a lot of muslim girls date other muslim guys. Sometime ago, I used to be critical, but now looking at how it is in the west, I overlook this telling myself, "Welp, atleast they are both muslims and happy."
Haha,why is everything about statistics to you? You asked earlier whats the % of them dating non muslims now these.Statistics doesnt show anything.
I dont think they are abnormal or extreme.Its just people who dont believe in Islam and are pressured by the society or family to follow it so they act that way.I understand them.Its pretty frustrating to do what you dont want to do always.And yes you are right they arent alot but they are an example that there are many people out there who looks muslim but inside they arent.
How come you live in a country with 85% muslims and you dont know a muslim woman?...
Haha,why is everything about statistics to you? You asked earlier whats the % of them dating non muslims now these.Statistics doesnt show anything.
I dont think they are abnormal or extreme.Its just people who dont believe in Islam and are pressured by the society or family to follow it so they act that way.I understand them.Its pretty frustrating to do what you dont want to do always.And yes you are right they arent alot but they are an example that there are many people out there who looks muslim but inside they arent.
How come you live in a country with 85% muslims and you dont know a muslim woman?...
When I said I don't know, I meant I don't know personally because I was not close enough. The only time I speak to girls is for education reasons.
And I certainly don't talk to them about religion, because girls in my country are relatively secular. So you'd get shut down fast.
When I said I don't know, I meant I don't know personally because I was not close enough. The only time I speak to girls is for education reasons.
And I certainly don't talk to them about religion, because girls in my country are relatively secular. So you'd get shut down fast.
I dont wanna pressure you but if you can give me just a small hint who this country is,id appreaciate it.I have an idea but i wanna be sure.
If you dont want its ok,no pressure
I dont wanna pressure you but if you can give me just a small hint who this country is,id appreaciate it.I have an idea but i wanna be sure.
If you dont want its ok,no pressure
At this point I'd rather see your guessing skills.
At this point I'd rather see your guessing skills.
Id say turkey or kazakhstan.Im 95% sure its turkey.I wouldnt say turkey is 85% muslim despite what people think.And islam in turkey is more like a cultural thing than a belief.Also majority of them are very different,like they shave off the beard,celebrate the bday of the prophet saws with dancing and music,etc,do things completely out of islam.I had a lot of connections with turks before so i know a thing or two,and if you are from turkey i can understand why you made this question.
Id say turkey or kazakhstan.Im 95% sure its turkey.I wouldnt say turkey is 85% muslim despite what people think.And islam in turkey is more like a cultural thing than a belief.Also majority of them are very different,like they shave off the beard,celebrate the bday of the prophet saws with dancing and music,etc,do things completely out of islam.I had a lot of connections with turks before so i know a thing or two,and if you are from turkey i can understand why you made this question.
You are wrong. My country is in the Indian subcontinent.
So......the solution is to defeat them in war and conquer their lands like in the past?
Haha no I dont have any animosity towards any race. We have even muslim brethren from all races of the world. You just asked the truth behind a generalization and I said yes there might be such an aim and its related to racial allure of white people independent from their religion which is a propogated perception and also is effective on both genders not only wonen. There is not a specific “solution” for the marriage part. Everyone decides him/herself whom to marry and if it is Islamically illegal he/she will take the responsibility. The only solution is if there is the sharia rule in the country then it will be illegal in the law too. But there is solution for the western cultural imperialism part. It has several ways. Media is the most effective on that so you can control the media and block if it contains such elements. But at the end of the day it comes to your personel dignity to your religion. Its you who will find solution for yourself.
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format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
While this is true, I don't think it has much to do with physical attraction. If you don't have a sense of self and core beliefs, you're easily persuaded by the ideas around you. There are muslim/hindu marriages in India for example which are absolutely forbidden Islamically for both genders.
Ofcourse, anyway I said mostly not only. This is my analyze.
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