How is the test of life fair?

**john.bob** · 02-02-2019

I am not a Muslim, but I am very interested in it. I hope by getting an answer to this question I will take a step closer to maybe accepting Islam.

I understand that Allah gives everyone a chance to live out our lives on earth to test us, even though he knows full well how everyone will do. This is similar to how a legal system allows a convicted criminal to make an appeal in his defense even though everything may be stacked against. I.e. all the evidence. In the day of judgment Allah will use our lives as evidence against us to prove if we did good or bad. To be just Allah allowed us all to live our lives so Allah doesn't have to say to us on the day of judgement "I knew what you would've done if i gave you a life so you go to hell or heaven,etc."

Instead Allah can say "you had your chance and you failed to prove yourself etc."So suppose we have two people both born in say a Christian family and let's say one is very devout to his religion and the other is more casual and doesn't care much, he just happened to have Christian parents. Like your typical teen they go through school not to concerned yet about religion and reach say the age of 20. Still very young and focused on their sorting their future lives not too serious about religion; as most people are in the west at this age.

Now suppose the less religious person suddenly dies due to an accident, very probable and has occurred to many people in the world. The devout religious person continues his life and eventually converts to Islam at say 35, which he practices until death.

The question is therefore, is it unfair that the first person who died early when he was still developing and didn't get a chance to reach full maturity or reach a standard livelihood to be able to pursue say religion? Even if would have remained say a disbeliever till death, wasn't letting him live on earth their to prove he would have died a disbeliever and to avoid having to say "I knew you would have lived to die a disbeliever anyway".The first person who died can now argue that if I had lived to the same age as person 2 I might have become a Muslim. If Allah was simply going to say to him " I knew you would have lived to die a disbeliever anyway" than why did Allah give him a life on in the first place.

I understand that Allah has said in the Quran that everyone at some point their lives will be introduced or exposed to Islam. But I feel many young people who do are so caught up with problems in their lives and future that they may miss the opportunity to take it seriously. Especially as in this example they may die very young, ignorant of religion having lived a life focused on worldly pleasure. Many Muslim convert's are like this early on and in later life realise they should submit to god and may come across Islam in their search.

Similarly, why does Allah bring children to this world and many die as children/ babies; which we all know implies that they will enter paradise as they were sinless. What is the point of beinging them to this world if Allah never tested them and simply took their lives and gave them automatic paradise. If I had a choice to whether live long and target a high level in paradise (by enduring hardships and tests) or die young and be guranteed paradise regardless of what level I would be in; I would choose to die young; as this would gurantee paradise.

I'm not attacking islam I just want this issue cleared up and would appreciate a kind response from someone who might have the answer.

Thank You

**john.bob** · 02-05-2019

@*charisma* by your logic you are stating that it is OK for god to be unfair as along as we don't no about it. I'm sorry but regardless of what knowledge we have the test of life Allah has created is flawed and you're telling me to accept it because I won't know about someone who lives longer.

Also if two people are sitting exams one has 10 questions and the other has 20 questions than they are doing different exams. If that is the case when did we get a choice of which exam we want to take, if Allah assigned it to us, how can we tell it is fair?

@najumuddin I understand what you are saying, but that means we are correct to assume god is unjust, because based on the knowledge god has given us that is the only conclusion we can come to. In the same manner a Christian can argue you won't understand trinity because god has limited your knowledge and you are being misguided by Satan.

@eesa the kiwi yes, but I have a sound argument as to why I didn't accept Islam, as I couldn't find an answer to justify why Allah is Just. Also your answer doesn't answer my question, so please post here if you want to discuss my question.

**SidratulMuntah** · 02-05-2019

@john.bob Look, some things you did not tell them. I just used them to explain, to better understand.
Your answers just show one more time, that you are not really interested in finding the truth. You just want to compromite Islam. The same as I said: you think, you are very smart, but in real, you turn around in a circle. When someone gave you a detailed answer here, you start again with the first question. You don’t want to accept, you just want to discuss. You don’t accept the answers. People like you, you can give them 1000 evidences, 1000 explanations, but they will reject, they will not believe. So it makes no sense to debate with you for this question any longer. Because you will start from the beginning again and again and none here will repeat all the answers again.

No, there’s no issue between Tom and Bob. You make it an issue. You have a complicated thinking and your mind is limited. You try to think like God. But none here is able to do that. Some questions will remain open until the day of resurrection or the day of judgement. It’s not unfair against Tom, that he died earlier than Bob. I told you already, that Allah knew, Bob will never accept Islam, even if he gave him 400 years to live. Don’t you understand that. But that’s just one possible explanation. There can be tons of others for God. We can’t know. Some things you must accept them, as they are.

No, wrong. We don’t get all the same exam. Allah tests different people in different ways. Very logic. If it’s always the same exam, people can prepare for that. That’s not the sense of an exam. It’s like in school. The questions of an exam change with every year. Exceptions may be there, but we talk in general.

No, free will is free will. And there’s no contradiction in it, that we don’t control suicide. Yes, for sure, we commit it finally and we decide. But as I said, every deed of free will happens with the permission of God. So finally he in real controls it. I told you too, that Allah allowed these things in advance, because he gave us the free will and he does not interfere, because he is absolutely just. But the point is: if he would want to interfere, he could. And so with him is the last word.

No, babies are not more favoured. It’s just a fact that they go to paradise, because they still don’t undergo the test. They don’t sin. Why should they go to hell? Putting them into he’ll would be unfair. That they surely go to paradise is just logic. I don’t know, what’s you discussion now for that point. It should be clear.
And it’s clear, that some people are more favoured and others less. That depends on their capabilities. The paradise is a high award. Only the best will go there. That should be clear.

It’s like in life too. Not every person can become a vascular surgeon. Only the best ones, who made most efforts and most struggle to get the best marks/points in their exams.

Hhhhh, to die young is not a criterion for getting into paradise.
OK, well… my answer to this post will end here now. Other posts, we will see.. But here it makes no more sense in my opinion to debate more. I said all, what I wanted to say and what I can say to this. We just would go around like in a carousel.

**MazharShafiq** · 02-05-2019

Originally Posted by SidratulMuntah

@john.bob Look, some things you did not tell them. I just used them to explain, to better understand.
Your answers just show one more time, that you are not really interested in finding the truth. You just want to compromite Islam. The same as I said: you think, you are very smart, but in real, you turn around in a circle. When someone gave you a detailed answer here, you start again with the first question. You don’t want to accept, you just want to discuss. You don’t accept the answers. People like you, you can give them 1000 evidences, 1000 explanations, but they will reject, they will not believe. So it makes no sense to debate with you for this question any longer. Because you will start from the beginning again and again and none here will repeat all the answers again.

No, there’s no issue between Tom and Bob. You make it an issue. You have a complicated thinking and your mind is limited. You try to think like God. But none here is able to do that. Some questions will remain open until the day of resurrection or the day of judgement. It’s not unfair against Tom, that he died earlier than Bob. I told you already, that Allah knew, Bob will never accept Islam, even if he gave him 400 years to live. Don’t you understand that. But that’s just one possible explanation. There can be tons of others for God. We can’t know. Some things you must accept them, as they are.

No, wrong. We don’t get all the same exam. Allah tests different people in different ways. Very logic. If it’s always the same exam, people can prepare for that. That’s not the sense of an exam. It’s like in school. The questions of an exam change with every year. Exceptions may be there, but we talk in general.

No, free will is free will. And there’s no contradiction in it, that we don’t control suicide. Yes, for sure, we commit it finally and we decide. But as I said, every deed of free will happens with the permission of God. So finally he in real controls it. I told you too, that Allah allowed these things in advance, because he gave us the free will and he does not interfere, because he is absolutely just. But the point is: if he would want to interfere, he could. And so with him is the last word.

No, babies are not more favoured. It’s just a fact that they go to paradise, because they still don’t undergo the test. They don’t sin. Why should they go to hell? Putting them into he’ll would be unfair. That they surely go to paradise is just logic. I don’t know, what’s you discussion now for that point. It should be clear.
And it’s clear, that some people are more favoured and others less. That depends on their capabilities. The paradise is a high award. Only the best will go there. That should be clear.

It’s like in life too. Not every person can become a vascular surgeon. Only the best ones, who made most efforts and most struggle to get the best marks/points in their exams.

Hhhhh, to die young is not a criterion for getting into paradise.
OK, well… my answer to this post will end here now. Other posts, we will see.. But here it makes no more sense in my opinion to debate more. I said all, what I wanted to say and what I can say to this. We just would go around like in a carousel.

Aslaam o alikum
it is absolutely right and informative and benefit explanation if you want understand it.

**Eric H** · 02-05-2019

Greetings and peace be with you john.bob; I am a Christian, and I have learned a great deal from my Muslim brothers and sisters on this forum.

Therefore God has made an incorrect statement, which than disproves god. please answer what god could say to the individual I spoke of in my last post, then I will reply with an response to counter that. I am not concerned with things such as who knows what if someone dies earlier, I am merely observing the system god created and testing if truly is a fair test for everyone

Either God the creator of the universe and life exists fully and totally, or there is no god. You will only find God when you start to change yourself and your attitude towards God. Study and reflect on the 99 names of Allah, who wants goodness for ALL his creation.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric

**eesa the kiwi** · 02-05-2019

Originally Posted by john.bob

@*charisma* by your logic you are stating that it is OK for god to be unfair as along as we don't no about it. I'm sorry but regardless of what knowledge we have the test of life Allah has created is flawed and you're telling me to accept it because I won't know about someone who lives longer.

Also if two people are sitting exams one has 10 questions and the other has 20 questions than they are doing different exams. If that is the case when did we get a choice of which exam we want to take, if Allah assigned it to us, how can we tell it is fair?

@najumuddin I understand what you are saying, but that means we are correct to assume god is unjust, because based on the knowledge god has given us that is the only conclusion we can come to. In the same manner a Christian can argue you won't understand trinity because god has limited your knowledge and you are being misguided by Satan.

@eesa the kiwi yes, but I have a sound argument as to why I didn't accept Islam, as I couldn't find an answer to justify why Allah is Just. Also your answer doesn't answer my question, so please post here if you want to discuss my question.

No you dont have a sound argument so dont try and kid yourself. You are basically saying you know better audhoo billah than the One who created the heavens and earth

Cant you see the arrogance here? That the Creator is wrong audhoo billah and John Bob has figured it all out. Humble yourself

I'm sorry but this is sheer foolishness so don't say you have a sound argument. Saying things like God has made an incorrect statement. Who exactly do you think you are? Show me what you have Created

Now as for your points theres a verse in the Quran that answers all of them

أَلَا يَعْلَمُ مَنْ خَلَقَ وَهُوَ اللَّطِيفُ الْخَبِيرُ

(67:14) Does He who created not know, while He is the Subtle, the Acquainted?

Islam is to accept that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah alone and Muhammad sallaho alayhi wa sallam is his servant and messenger. If you accept this and remain steadfast then inshaAllah paradise will be yours. If you reject then you are risking a fire whose fuel is men and stones

Peace be upon those who accept guidance

**john.bob** · 02-05-2019

@SidratulMuntah to you it seems that I am going around in circle, but from reading your and others answer I can clearly see holes in them. Unlike you I am not a Muslim and therefore not afraid to ask the difficult questions, that can affect the delicate balance of my religion. I am here to point out that you should consider everything before committing to something. My question looks complicated but is very simple, all you have to do is state whether you think Tom should go to hellfire based on what we know. e.g. He clearly has been exposed to Islam and therefore should go to hellfire, but as we know that also arises various issues. Such as How is it fair that he did not live to the same age as Bob who began like Tom but became a Muslim at a later age. Had Bob died earlier he would have died a disbeliever like Tom. Tom will now have an valid argument against God that he was supposed to be given a chance to live on earth to show evidence as to what he would have done with free will; but his life was cut short and failed to show the evidence. Should God have let him live to the age Bob he would have no complaint as this would show equivalent evidence. Think of this scenario:

God created Tom to give him a chance to create evidence that he would be a Muslim or not, which is the point of this test/ life on this earth. Because we know God could simply said to him that I know what you will do with your life right till the end no matter what age you lived to, so I can send you to hell or heaven now. Instead God let him have his chance. But by taking his life at 18 for example and then saying to him on the Judgement day that no matter what age you lived to you were always going to be a disbeliever. It makes giving him a chance pointless as God could have said that before sending him to this test. So why let him live till 18 for no reason. We all know that most people in the west at the age of 18-25 for example majority are people are naive and may not take religion seriously. This scenario is especially made worse if another person Bob who is similar to Tom accepts Islam at a later age and dies a believer, Tom has now an argument against God as to why he wasn't given equal chance/length to Bob.

In regards to tests and how they are fair/ unfair I have a separate issue that I will post later once I am satisfied with an answer for this question.

The description of free will you described is not free will if the individual had to seek permission from God, as this implies that God is indeed in control and therefore the individual does not have the free will to kill himself. This is because God could deny his permission and therefore stopping him from killing himself.

In regards to babies, I admit it would be unfair to send them to hellfire but it would also be unfair to send them to paradise, this is because they haven't earned the right to go to either. It is particularly unfair if we consider that like me and you babies asked God to send them to earth so we can take this test, but the babies lives were taken away at a young age. Similarly, many people would agree that the test of life is very hard and would prefer to die as a infant and get automatic paradise. Now that is unfair? please before simply saying it is fair give an valid argument as to why?
@Eric H you are here debating me when you should be trying to convert your Muslim 'brothers and sisters' to Christianity to save them from hellfire; as we know that both Islam and Christianity contradict one another. Likewise, you have not attempted to answer my question once and are merely making a fool of yourself defending those whom to you are destined for hellfire. The fact that you haven't accepted Islam implies that you have some issues that you don't agree with clearly in Islam, maybe you should go and post a separate question and try to get them resolved, or try to maybe convert Muslims to save them from hellfire as non-Christians are destined for hellfire according to Christianity.
@eesa the kiwi your arguments make no sense at all, I have been given a brain by God which I am supposed to use to ponder about Gods creation. I do not have to be a God in order to ask these questions, when I say God has made a incorrect statement, I am not saying God is wrong; I am merely stating that according to what has revealed to me i am correct to assume that. e.g. If I showed only green birds and never ever showed you any other colored birds, you have a right to now assume that all birds are green. If take your argument and test it we can see that a Christian could easily say Jesus is God and therefore we cannot question him as we ourselves did not achieve any of his feats. I don't know more than God for sure, but I know enough to say that this test of life is unfair (based on everything I have read and seen), if God want to prove me wrong I would like it if God would reveal the answer to me.

**Nájlá** · 02-05-2019

John,

You are going round in circles. We have answered your question but the problem is you have doubts and you want to argue and proof God is not real or unfair. You are not trying to seek answers rather you are seeking to challenge God.

We have told you:

1. God created us to only WORSHIP him.
2. We have free will.
3. Everything about us is a test, including AGE. There are 7 doors to hell, someone who lives only 15 years their test was probably to just Beleive in GOD after given the warning. That is probably what their test was before they die. Where as someone who lives 70 years will have different tests. Is this fair? Yes of course.

Someone who lives 70 years they will be tested with a lot even if they convert they will continue to be tested. This person will be held accountable for a lot of stuff when their book of deeds is given to them. This is just an example that we can think of it. But it all goes back to Gods wisdom.

We are in a TEST. This test isn't easy nor is it fixed. Nor are we fixed. Our death isn't fixed. Our age isn't fixed. Our challenges isn't fixed.

We cannot say why is this or why not this. God is the most WISE and he has only given us a small brain to help us pass the test. Why do you question what is fair for someone and what isn't for someone else? When they themselves will not even say this on the day of judgement?

To be a believer you have to belief in Allah's 99 names and leave the rest to him. We cannot compare our tiny brain to God's wisdom. Surly the quran tells us He knows and we do not.

You have lived to see a lot of years, why haven't you converted? Would you say it wasn't fair ? When you was given long enough to live?

**azc** · 02-05-2019

@john.bob :

So, You are a Christian and you think that Muslims are destined as people of hell fire and Christians are people of heaven.
And you think that those Christians on IB who don't invite Muslims to Christianity are fool.

@ *charisma*
@ eesa the kiwi

- - - Updated - - -
@john.bob :

So, You are a Christian and you think that Muslims are destined as people of hell fire and Christians are people of heaven.
And you think that those Christians on IB who don't invite Muslims to Christianity are fool.

@ *charisma*
@ eesa the kiwi

**john.bob** · 02-05-2019