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    Thumbs up Scientists and ......! (OP)


    The following are some comments of scientists[1] on the scientific miracles in the Holy Quran.

    1) Dr. T. V. N. Persaud is Professor of Anatomy, Professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, and Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Reproductive Sciences at the University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. There, he was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy for 16 years. He is well-known in his field. He is the author or editor of 22 textbooks and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. When he was asked about the scientific miracles in the Quran which he has researched, he stated the following:

    “The way it was explained to me is that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read, didn’t know [how] to write. In fact, he was an illiterate. And we’re talking about twelve [actually about fourteen] hundred years ago. You have someone illiterate making profound pronouncements and statements and that are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. And I personally can’t see how this could be a mere chance. There are too many accuracies and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements.”


    Professor Persaud has included some Quranic verses and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, in some of his books. He has also presented these verses and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad at several conferences.

    2) Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson is the Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, and Professor of Molecular and Human Genetics at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA. Formerly, he was Professor of Ob-Gyn and the Chairman of the Department of Ob-Gyn at the University of Tennessee, Memphis, Tennessee, USA. He was also the President of the American Fertility Society. He has received many awards, including the Association of Professors of Obstetrics and Gynecology Public Recognition Award in 1992. Professor Simpson studied the following two sayings of the Prophet Muhammad:

    “In every one of you, all components of your creation are collected together in your mother’s womb by forty days...”[2]

    “If forty-two nights have passed over the embryo, God sends an angel to it, who shapes it and creates its hearing, vision, skin, flesh, and bones....”[3]

    He studied these two sayings of the Prophet Muhammad extensively, noting that the first forty days constitute a clearly distinguishable stage of embryo-genesis. He was particularly impressed by the absolute precision and accuracy of those sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. Then, during one conference, he gave the following opinion:

    “So that the two hadeeths (the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) that have been noted provide us with a specific time table for the main embryological development before forty days. Again, the point has been made, I think, repeatedly by other speakers this morning: these hadeeths could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available [at] the time of their writing . . . . It follows, I think, that not only there is no conflict between genetics and religion but, in fact, religion can guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches, that there exist statements in the Quran shown centuries later to be valid, which support knowledge in the Quran having been derived from God.”

    3) Dr. E. Marshall Johnson is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Developmental Biology at Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. There, for 22 years he was Professor of Anatomy, the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy, and the Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute. He was also the President of the Teratology Society. He has authored more than 200 publications. In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Johnson said in the presentation of his research paper:

    “Summary: The Quran describes not only the development of external form, but emphasizes also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science.”

    Also he said: “As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Quran. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I knew today and describing things, I could not describe the things which were described. I see no evidence for the fact to refute the concept that this individual, Muhammad, had to be developing this information from some place. So I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write.


    4) Dr. William W. Hay is a well-known marine scientist. He is Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, USA. He was formerly the Dean of the Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science at the University of Miami, Miami, Florida, USA. After a discussion with Professor Hay about the Quran’s mention of recently discovered facts on seas, he said:

    “I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scriptures of the Holy Quran, and I have no way of knowing where they would come from, but I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and that this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages.” And when he was asked about the source of the Quran, he replied: “Well, I would think it must be the divine being.”


    5) Dr. Gerald C. Goeringer is Course Director and Associate Professor of Medical Embryology at the Department of Cell Biology, School of Medicine, Georgetown University, Washington, DC, USA. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Goeringer stated the following in the presentation of his research paper:

    “In a relatively few aayahs (Quranic verses) is contained a rather comprehensive description of human development from the time of commingling of the gametes through organogenesis. No such distinct and complete record of human development, such as classification, terminology, and description, existed previously. In most, if not all, instances, this description antedates by many centuries the recording of the various stages of human embryonic and fetal development recorded in the traditional scientific literature.”


    6) Dr. Yoshihide Kozai is Professor Emeritus at Tokyo University, Hongo, Tokyo, Japan, and was the Director of the National Astronomical Observatory, Mitaka, Tokyo, Japan. He said:

    “I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in [the] Quran, and for us the modern astronomers have been studying very small pieces of the universe. We’ve concentrated our efforts for understanding of [a] very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts [of] the sky without thinking [about the] whole universe. So, by reading [the] Quran and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe.”


    7) Professor Tejatat Tejasen is the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai, Thailand. Previously, he was the Dean of the Faculty of Medicine at the same university. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Tejasen stood up and said:

    “During the last three years, I became interested in the Quran . . . . From my study and what I have learned from this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Quran fourteen hundred years ago must be the truth, that can be proved by the scientific means. Since the Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write, Muhammad must be a messenger who relayed this truth, which was revealed to him as an enlightenment by the one who is eligible [as the] creator.

    This creator must be God. Therefore, I think this is the time to say La ilaha illa Allah, there is no god to worship except Allah (God), Muhammadur rasoolu Allah, Muhammad is Messenger (Prophet) of Allah (God). Lastly, I must congratulate for the excellent and highly successful arrangement for this conference . . . . I have gained not only from the scientific point of view and religious point of view but also the great chance of meeting many well-known scientists and making many new friends among the participants. The most precious thing of all that I have gained by coming to this place is La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah, and to have become a Muslim.”



    After all these examples we have seen about the scientific miracles in the Holy Quran and all these scientists’ comments on this, let us ask ourselves these questions:

    • Could it be a coincidence that all this recently discovered scientific information from different fields was mentioned in the Quran, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago?

    • Could this Quran have been authored by Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, or by any other human being?

    The only possible answer is that this Quran must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him.
    القرآن الكريم والعلم الحديث كاملة The Quran and Modern Science full Zakir naik youtube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFO4G7zXlUI

  2. #21
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbdurRahman. View Post
    WOW, you just lost all credibility when you quoted Harun Yahya lol.

    I feel slightly silly for humoring you with a response, lol, I mean, when you take Harun Yahya's clique as your goto source for science and/or Islam, you look mighty foolish, and in my experience people like you lack the basic understanding for either science or islam.

    Have a nice day.
    Scientists and ......!


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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    WOW, you just lost all credibility when you quoted Harun Yahya lol.

    I feel slightly silly for humoring you with a response, lol, I mean, when you take Harun Yahya's clique as your goto source for science and/or Islam, you look mighty foolish, and in my experience people like you lack the basic understanding for either science or islam.

    Have a nice day.
    Harun yaha never wrote these books. See my above reply to @Umit

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by AbdurRahman. View Post
    Harun yaha never wrote these books. See my above reply to @Umit
    The "Harun yahya" machine plagiarized from Christian creationists who didn't really know much about science in the first place. If this is where you are placing your appeal to authority, then you have absolutely lost the plot.

    Have a nice day.
    | Likes Zafran liked this post
    Scientists and ......!


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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Harun Yahyha and his cult should not be trusted on science or Islam. Secondly evolutionary biology is one of the strongest scientific paradigms we have today, of course its bound to change as more ideas and evidence is gathered but to try to dismiss it by creationist conspiracy theorist isn't a good idea.
    | Likes Scimitar liked this post
    Scientists and ......!

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    European scientist converts to Islam after seeing scientific miracle in Quran!:

    https://youtu.be/Tzcdh8sDoh8

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    صورتي على الفيس حلال ام حرام؟ الشيخ Haitham al-Haddad
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYE_Owevp9M&t=49s

    فتاة تسأل اومن ان الله واحد و ان عيسى ليس ابن الله | يوشع ايفانز مترجم

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr6Wzad7X8o&t=27s


    أبي لا يسمح لي بارتداء الحجاب ماذا أفعل ؟ hijab


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVX8Y8ArDqA&t=53s

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    qibla change in islam


    There are more than 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, and each time they pray, they turn their faces in one direction, towards Mecca. The Islamic term for this direction is qibla. When a Muslim prepares to pray, no matter where he is, he turns towards the qibla, the direction of the Kaba. The Kaba is a small cube shaped building in the courtyard of the mosque known as Masjid Al Haram, in the city of Mecca, in the country of Saudi Arabia.

    “For every nation there is a direction to which they face (in their prayers). So hasten towards all that is good. Wheresoever you may be, God will bring you together (on the Day of Resurrection). Truly, God is Able to do all things. And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Mecca), that is indeed the truth from your Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.” (Quran 2:148-149)

    Muslims do not worship the Kaba, or its contents, it is simply a focal point. Muslims worship One God, the Most Merciful, and the Most Wise. God decreed that when Muslims pray they all face one direction. It is a sign of unity that encapsulates the unity embedded in the religion of Islam.

    The Arabic word for prayer is salah and it demotes a connection between the believer and God; when all believers face the same direction it adds an extra dimension to the connection. The prayer connects the believers to God and the qibla connects the believers to one another. It has been said that if one could observe all the Muslims at prayer we would be able to see lines of worshippers bowing and prostrating like the petals of a flower opening and closing in unison.

    The qibla was not always oriented towards Mecca. The first Muslims prayed towards the al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Around sixteen months after Prophet Muhammad and his followers migrated from Mecca to the city of Medina, the qibla was changed to the Kaba. According to accounts by Prophet Muhammad's companions, the change happened very suddenly. During the noon prayer, Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, received a revelation from God instructing him to, "Turn your face towards the Masjid al Haram".

    “Thus, we have made you real believers in Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad and his legal ways, a just nation, witnesses over mankind and the Messenger a witness over you. And We made the Qibla (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed, it was great (heavy) except for those whom God guided. And God would never make your prayers to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, God is full of kindness, the Most Merciful towards humankind.”

    “Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qibla (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid- al-Haram (at Mecca). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction...” (Quran 2:143-144)

    Changing the direction of prayer establishes Mecca as the fixed central point for worship. It establishes a common sense or purpose.

    Throughout the centuries, mathematicians and astronomers have established correct ways to determine the qibla (direction) from any point on the earth’s surface. There are two precise moments each year when the sun is directly above the Kaba, thus the direction of shadows in any sunlit place will point away from the qibla. There are also two moments per year when the sun is directly over the exact opposite position of the Kaba, thus pointing towards the qibla.

    It is important the Muslims make every effort to face the right direction when praying; however, slight deviations do not invalidate a person’s prayer. Prophet Muhammad said, “What is between the east and the west is qibla”.[1] Nowadays it is easy to locate the qibla. It is a simple matter to look at a map and draw a line between your location and the city of Mecca. Compasses and computer programs that locate the qibla are readily available and most mosques throughout the world have a niche in the wall to indicate the qibla.

    Islam is a religion of unity. Muslims are united by their belief in One God. They are one brotherhood united in the language and ritual of prayer and united by the direction of their worship. The qibla is not only about degrees of latitude or longitude it is about unity. It is about humankind united in the worship of the One God, Creator, and Sustainer of the universe

    منصور و اسئلة فتاة مسيحية عن المساواة فى الاسلام ركن المتحدثين مترجم

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw0HptNgAU8

    Change Of Qibla From Jerusalem To Kaaba By Nouman Ali

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfeSLuLMeAo
    | Likes Ahmed. liked this post

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    There was a cruel oppressive tribal leader named Abu Jahl who lived during the time of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him. God revealed a verse of the Quran to warn him:

    “No Indeed! If he does not stop, We will seize him by the forehead, his lying, sinful forehead.” (Quran 96:15-16)

    God does not call this person a liar, but calls his forehead (the front part of the brain) ‘lying’ and ‘sinful’, and warns him to stop.

    This verse is significant for two reasons. The first is that the front part of our brain is responsible for voluntary movement

    This is known as the frontal lobe. A book titled ‘Essentials of Anatomy and Physiology’ which includes the results of research on the functions of this area states: The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. The part of the brain that is responsible for movement is said to be seized if the man does not stop.

    Secondly, numerous studies have shown that this same region (frontal lobe) is responsible for the lying function of the brain. One such study at the University of Pennsylvania in which volunteers were asked questions during a computerized interrogation, it was found that when the volunteers were lying there was significantly increased activity in the prefrontal and premotor cortices (frontal lobe region)

    The front part of the brain is responsible for movement and lying. The Quran links movement and lying to this area. These functions of the frontal lobe were discovered with medical imaging equipment which was developed in the 20th century.
    ركن المتحدثين الداعية محمد حجاب و زائرين فى الهايد

    بارك مترجم

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEcLgX8EL4E&t=79s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK9sQHJFAtM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJX5XKhd8xo

  12. #29
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by AbdurRahman. View Post
    He said in his video that because intelligent design scientists say it is impossible for animals to have evolved one from another, this is why we should disregard it. He's just trying to remove impediment to believing in evolution

    The scientists infact do have good scientific evidence why it would have been impossible for a lot of creatures to have evolved from one another; see here for example:

    https://m.harunyahya.com/tr/Books/97...ds-and-Mammals

    It's also impossible for apes to have evolved into men due to their bone structures and specifically the backbone:


    Recent researches reveal that it is impossible for the bent ape skeleton fit for quadrupedal stride to evolve into upright human skeleton fit for bipedal stride.


    https://m.harunyahya.com/tr/Books/97...uman-Evolution


    Anyone who believes God created life, then there isn't even a reason to try set out to prove life came about by step by step micro or macro evolution, as God could have created all creatures in their full forms. It's only those who wish to deny God that attempts to designate life to a process of cause and effect so people can think life or universe doesn't need God. This is another reason why Muslims should naturally find evolution theory suspect.
    The same logic would not hold water when compared with Quranic teachings.

    E.g - the following argument falls apart and dissolves upon pondering:

    Anyone who believes God created Jesus then there isn't even a reason to try set out to prove that his life came about by step by step micro or macro evolution, as God could have created all creatures in their full forms (since the parable of jesus is that of adam - he must have been a full grown man when he arrived from crypton or elsewhere), It's only those who wish to deny God that attempt to designate life to a process of cause and effect so people can think life or universe doesn't need God (though our practice of bathing, brushing our teeth, and cleaning food preparation surfaces are simply religius rituals that requires no explanation or understanding, and God could keep them clean if he wanted to - the cause and effect explanation for tooth rot and acquired hereditary viral attack which changes the genetic makeup of an individual are simply ways to explain the curses away (as if they are not rules set beforehand and intertwined with Qadr).
    This is another reason why people should naturally find the cell division story, the virgin birth story and genetic inheritance from two different parents theories suspect.


    Did the person's teeth rot because they didn't brush them? Or did God do it to them as a punishment for detaching from fitrah?
    Maybe it's a bit of both - since God set the rules of fitrah - but whether it was intended as a punishment for not following the rules, or a simple case of wrong life choices - is something to ponder over.


    Both are fails when they clash - The fatalists who load it all on God in a ritualistic fashion without attempting to understand, (thereby rejecting the opening verses which include: "allama bi al qalam - allama al insaana maa lam ya'lam") - and the secularists who attempt to cover the truth by burying their heads in the sand (thereby falling into falsehood), and then try to find explanations which lamely discount the unchanging laws of God .... until they descend into chaos and confusion as the worst crooks from amongst them take political power and then cheat them as they cheat themselves.




    It seems to be in our nature to focus on how we were wrong over the fact that we're now smarter (as if we can't be works in progress), and we often attach our egos to what we believe. A view is just how you see something. It doesn't have to define you, and trying to detach from it to gain understanding can be a very good thing.


    Kal Turnbull
    Last edited by Abz2000; 04-30-2019 at 11:23 AM.
    | Likes DanEdge, Ümit liked this post
    Scientists and ......!













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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    The Ocean

    The Quran uses imagery to covey its deep meanings, here it describes the state of the unbelievers as:

    “Darkness out in a deep ocean which is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds, layers of darkness, one upon the other. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. Those God gives no light to, they have no light.” (Quran 24:40)

    It is commonly thought that waves only occur on the surface of the ocean. However oceanographers have discovered that there are internal waves that take place below the surface of the ocean. These waves are invisible to the human eye, and can only be detected by specialist equipment[8]. The Quran mentions darkness in a deep ocean above which are waves, above which are waves, then clouds above that.

    This description is not only remarkable because it describes the internal waves in the ocean, but also because it describes darkness deep in the ocean. A human being can dive no more than 70 metres without breathing equipment. Light is present at that depth, but if we go down 1000 metres it is completely dark[9]. 1400 years ago there were no submarines or specialist equipment to discover internal waves or the darkness deep inside the oceans.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtqHtZgoEwU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTew5qgmkvY

    شاب يسال ذاكر نايك لماذا نقلد النبي محمد | مترجم
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lerRxBEyfR0

    منصور و فتاة مسيحية l ركن المتحدثين l هايد بارك

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5FEmGRxHwA
    Last edited by yasoooo; 6 Days Ago at 05:51 AM.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by yasoooo View Post
    The Ocean

    The Quran uses imagery to covey its deep meanings, here it describes the state of the unbelievers as:

    “Darkness out in a deep ocean which is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds, layers of darkness, one upon the other. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. Those God gives no light to, they have no light.” (Quran 24:40)

    It is commonly thought that waves only occur on the surface of the ocean. However oceanographers have discovered that there are internal waves that take place below the surface of the ocean. These waves are invisible to the human eye, and can only be detected by specialist equipment[8]. The Quran mentions darkness in a deep ocean above which are waves, above which are waves, then clouds above that.

    This description is not only remarkable because it describes the internal waves in the ocean, but also because it describes darkness deep in the ocean. A human being can dive no more than 70 metres without breathing equipment. Light is present at that depth, but if we go down 1000 metres it is completely dark[9]. 1400 years ago there were no submarines or specialist equipment to discover internal waves or the darkness deep inside the oceans.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtqHtZgoEwU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTew5qgmkvY

    شاب يسال ذاكر نايك لماذا نقلد النبي محمد | مترجم
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lerRxBEyfR0

    منصور و فتاة مسيحية l ركن المتحدثين l هايد بارك

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5FEmGRxHwA
    You do not have to be an oceanist to know that an ocean, sea, river lake or any other water mass has waves below the surface. The waves on the surface are just caused because of the wind. the water mass itself however is affected by high pressure places, low pressure places, so currents from high to low, certain circulation currents, gravitation of the moon pulling on the watermass, etc, etc.

    It is just like the air mass we live in. the wind we cannot see, but surely detect and feel are the waves in air.

    Besides, you do not need special equipment to detect the currents and waves below the surface. any object in floating around below the surface can do that job. I often see a leaf or plant in the water that travels in a different direction than the waves on the surface do.

    But besides that, I get your general message and thank you for your post.
    | Likes Abz2000 liked this post

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by yasoooo View Post
    The Ocean

    The Quran uses imagery to covey its deep meanings, here it describes the state of the unbelievers as:

    “Darkness out in a deep ocean which is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds, layers of darkness, one upon the other. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. Those God gives no light to, they have no light.” (Quran 24:40)

    It is commonly thought that waves only occur on the surface of the ocean. However oceanographers have discovered that there are internal waves that take place below the surface of the ocean. These waves are invisible to the human eye, and can only be detected by specialist equipment[8]. The Quran mentions darkness in a deep ocean above which are waves, above which are waves, then clouds above that.

    This description is not only remarkable because it describes the internal waves in the ocean, but also because it describes darkness deep in the ocean. A human being can dive no more than 70 metres without breathing equipment. Light is present at that depth, but if we go down 1000 metres it is completely dark[9]. 1400 years ago there were no submarines or specialist equipment to discover internal waves or the darkness deep inside the oceans.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtqHtZgoEwU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTew5qgmkvY

    شاب يسال ذاكر نايك لماذا نقلد النبي محمد | مترجم
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lerRxBEyfR0

    منصور و فتاة مسيحية l ركن المتحدثين l هايد بارك

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5FEmGRxHwA
    thanks for this useful information
    Scientists and ......!


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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    @Ümit
    True, and i genuinely very much appreciate the fact that you give that critical point of view on behalf of other Muslims which speaks to readers who may roll their eyes and say "what.....ever" ,

    But..... it is useful to take into account that the Prophet lived in the Arabian Peninsula and his initial job was local shepherding, and his second significant job was travelling north in caravans for trade in cattle - and these places were quite dry, so to imagine him musing about all that stuff accurately without making mistakes is an accumulating pointer -even if not evidence- to his not having been speaking of himself.

    These people used to have to travel very far out just to learn to swim in large pools of water for military training during the time of 'Umar ibn al khattaab - otherwse it was mainly wells, pitchers, and an occasional much celebrated fountain.

    Also - the fact that it is mentioned in a matter of fact manner in parable to the situation of people lost in layers of hawaa for judgement is an evidence that it wasn't being promoted as a scientific wow in and of itself - rather, the subtle nature of the parable itself is the astounding part which forces a person to stop and think of the psychology of those whose judgements have no firm grounding and whose minds are in a state of self and secular media induced turbulence.

    I honestly can't think of a more fitting parable in context of the psychology.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 5 Days Ago at 06:10 PM.
    | Likes Ümit liked this post
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    @Ümit
    True, and i genuinely very much appreciate the fact that you give that critical point of view on behalf of other Muslims which speaks to readers who may roll their eyes and say "what.....ever" ,

    But..... it is useful to take into account that the Prophet lived in the Arabian Peninsula and his initial job was local shepherding, and his second significant job was travelling north in caravans for trade in cattle - and these places were quite dry, so to imagine him musing about all that stuff accurately without making mistakes is an accumulating pointer -even if not evidence- to his not having been speaking of himself.

    These people used to have to travel very far out just to learn to swim in large pools of water for military training during the time of 'Umar ibn al khattaab - otherwse it was mainly wells, pitchers, and an occasional much celebrated fountain.

    Also - the fact that it is mentioned in a matter of fact manner in parable to the situation of people lost in layers of hawaa for judgement is an evidence that it wasn't being promoted as a scientific wow in and of itself - rather, the subtle nature of the parable itself is the astounding part which forces a person to stop and think of the psychology of those whose judgements have no firm grounding and whose minds are in a state of self and secular media induced turbulence.

    I honestly can't think of a more fitting parable in context of the psychology.
    No, I am sorry...I totally get that. And I do not criticize the given general message. I guess my post was just a semi automatic post to point a few things out without thinking too much about it. But thanks for your concern.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    The same logic would not hold water when compared with Quranic teachings.

    E.g - the following argument falls apart and dissolves upon pondering:





    Did the person's teeth rot because they didn't brush them? Or did God do it to them as a punishment for detaching from fitrah?
    Maybe it's a bit of both - since God set the rules of fitrah - but whether it was intended as a punishment for not following the rules, or a simple case of wrong life choices - is something to ponder over.


    Both are fails when they clash - The fatalists who load it all on God in a ritualistic fashion without attempting to understand, (thereby rejecting the opening verses which include: "allama bi al qalam - allama al insaana maa lam ya'lam") - and the secularists who attempt to cover the truth by burying their heads in the sand (thereby falling into falsehood), and then try to find explanations which lamely discount the unchanging laws of God .... until they descend into chaos and confusion as the worst crooks from amongst them take political power and then cheat them as they cheat themselves.




    It seems to be in our nature to focus on how we were wrong over the fact that we're now smarter (as if we can't be works in progress), and we often attach our egos to what we believe. A view is just how you see something. It doesn't have to define you, and trying to detach from it to gain understanding can be a very good thing.


    Kal Turnbull
    I don't think that was a good comparison as the talk is about the first creatures and not those given birth by others

    There is fossil evidence that the first parent creatures were created fully by Allah; look up about the 'Cambrian explosion'. That's the earliest fossils found and they are all of fully formed sophisticated creatures
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 4 Days Ago at 05:30 AM.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    I don't think that was a good comparison as the talk is about the first creatures and not those given birth by others

    There is fossil evidence that the first parent creatures were created fully by Allah; look up about the 'Cumbrian explosion'. That's the earliest fossils found and they are all of fully formed sophisticated creatures

    The same was assumed regarding sperm by many until the advent of the microscope i.e that they were miniature fully formed human beings:

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...erm-180963578/

    https://io9.gizmodo.com/when-scienti...1535749294/amp

    but we can see now that the birth process is similar for most species including fish, reptiles, birds -all of which which lay eggs, and other mammals which carry in the womb, and clearly visible differences are only apparent at a stage which appears to be called "khalq an aakhar" (another creation) in the Quran.


    Screenshot_2019-06-13-01-55-14.jpg


    The whole developmental process appears to be a record of acceptances of past positives (relative to branching species) (discounting acceptances of negatives due to genetic flaws), and rejection of past negatives (again relative to branching species) (discounting rejections of positives due to genetic flaws), all the way from "maa-in-maheen" (lowly despicable fluid) to individual offspring bearing resemblances of both parents depending much on mental and physical health, experiences, and age at the time of conception and during pregnancy.


    https://babybelliesandbeyond.com/201...-unbelievable/


    The divine pronunciation "Innee a'lamu maa laa ta'lamoon" could be indicating that the angels only saw Adam and his qualities as he would be on earth, and wondered and questioned - though Allah who knew the future of this work in progress -which had been given the ability to increase in intelligence through the generations based on learning from mistakes and compounding knowledge -knew better.



    I believe that the earliest traces of living species would be something more akin to bacteria (lowly despicable fluid - arabic: "maa in maheen") which practice cell division and replication - not very much differently to the way human fetal cells multiply.

    And Allah knows best.

    - - - Updated - - -

    More compelling evidence


    Attachment 6713

    Attachment 6714

    Attachment 6715

    1650.png

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-change-stance
    Last edited by Abz2000; 4 Days Ago at 08:29 PM.
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