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  1. #1
    Array yasoooo's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Scientists and ......! (OP)


    The following are some comments of scientists[1] on the scientific miracles in the Holy Quran.

    1) Dr. T. V. N. Persaud is Professor of Anatomy, Professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, and Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Reproductive Sciences at the University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. There, he was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy for 16 years. He is well-known in his field. He is the author or editor of 22 textbooks and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. When he was asked about the scientific miracles in the Quran which he has researched, he stated the following:

    “The way it was explained to me is that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read, didn’t know [how] to write. In fact, he was an illiterate. And we’re talking about twelve [actually about fourteen] hundred years ago. You have someone illiterate making profound pronouncements and statements and that are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. And I personally can’t see how this could be a mere chance. There are too many accuracies and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements.”


    Professor Persaud has included some Quranic verses and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, in some of his books. He has also presented these verses and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad at several conferences.

    2) Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson is the Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, and Professor of Molecular and Human Genetics at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA. Formerly, he was Professor of Ob-Gyn and the Chairman of the Department of Ob-Gyn at the University of Tennessee, Memphis, Tennessee, USA. He was also the President of the American Fertility Society. He has received many awards, including the Association of Professors of Obstetrics and Gynecology Public Recognition Award in 1992. Professor Simpson studied the following two sayings of the Prophet Muhammad:

    “In every one of you, all components of your creation are collected together in your mother’s womb by forty days...”[2]

    “If forty-two nights have passed over the embryo, God sends an angel to it, who shapes it and creates its hearing, vision, skin, flesh, and bones....”[3]

    He studied these two sayings of the Prophet Muhammad extensively, noting that the first forty days constitute a clearly distinguishable stage of embryo-genesis. He was particularly impressed by the absolute precision and accuracy of those sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. Then, during one conference, he gave the following opinion:

    “So that the two hadeeths (the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) that have been noted provide us with a specific time table for the main embryological development before forty days. Again, the point has been made, I think, repeatedly by other speakers this morning: these hadeeths could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available [at] the time of their writing . . . . It follows, I think, that not only there is no conflict between genetics and religion but, in fact, religion can guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches, that there exist statements in the Quran shown centuries later to be valid, which support knowledge in the Quran having been derived from God.”

    3) Dr. E. Marshall Johnson is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Developmental Biology at Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. There, for 22 years he was Professor of Anatomy, the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy, and the Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute. He was also the President of the Teratology Society. He has authored more than 200 publications. In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Johnson said in the presentation of his research paper:

    “Summary: The Quran describes not only the development of external form, but emphasizes also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science.”

    Also he said: “As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Quran. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I knew today and describing things, I could not describe the things which were described. I see no evidence for the fact to refute the concept that this individual, Muhammad, had to be developing this information from some place. So I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write.


    4) Dr. William W. Hay is a well-known marine scientist. He is Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, USA. He was formerly the Dean of the Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science at the University of Miami, Miami, Florida, USA. After a discussion with Professor Hay about the Quran’s mention of recently discovered facts on seas, he said:

    “I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scriptures of the Holy Quran, and I have no way of knowing where they would come from, but I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and that this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages.” And when he was asked about the source of the Quran, he replied: “Well, I would think it must be the divine being.”


    5) Dr. Gerald C. Goeringer is Course Director and Associate Professor of Medical Embryology at the Department of Cell Biology, School of Medicine, Georgetown University, Washington, DC, USA. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Goeringer stated the following in the presentation of his research paper:

    “In a relatively few aayahs (Quranic verses) is contained a rather comprehensive description of human development from the time of commingling of the gametes through organogenesis. No such distinct and complete record of human development, such as classification, terminology, and description, existed previously. In most, if not all, instances, this description antedates by many centuries the recording of the various stages of human embryonic and fetal development recorded in the traditional scientific literature.”


    6) Dr. Yoshihide Kozai is Professor Emeritus at Tokyo University, Hongo, Tokyo, Japan, and was the Director of the National Astronomical Observatory, Mitaka, Tokyo, Japan. He said:

    “I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in [the] Quran, and for us the modern astronomers have been studying very small pieces of the universe. We’ve concentrated our efforts for understanding of [a] very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts [of] the sky without thinking [about the] whole universe. So, by reading [the] Quran and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe.”


    7) Professor Tejatat Tejasen is the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai, Thailand. Previously, he was the Dean of the Faculty of Medicine at the same university. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Tejasen stood up and said:

    “During the last three years, I became interested in the Quran . . . . From my study and what I have learned from this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Quran fourteen hundred years ago must be the truth, that can be proved by the scientific means. Since the Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write, Muhammad must be a messenger who relayed this truth, which was revealed to him as an enlightenment by the one who is eligible [as the] creator.

    This creator must be God. Therefore, I think this is the time to say La ilaha illa Allah, there is no god to worship except Allah (God), Muhammadur rasoolu Allah, Muhammad is Messenger (Prophet) of Allah (God). Lastly, I must congratulate for the excellent and highly successful arrangement for this conference . . . . I have gained not only from the scientific point of view and religious point of view but also the great chance of meeting many well-known scientists and making many new friends among the participants. The most precious thing of all that I have gained by coming to this place is La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah, and to have become a Muslim.”



    After all these examples we have seen about the scientific miracles in the Holy Quran and all these scientists’ comments on this, let us ask ourselves these questions:

    • Could it be a coincidence that all this recently discovered scientific information from different fields was mentioned in the Quran, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago?

    • Could this Quran have been authored by Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, or by any other human being?

    The only possible answer is that this Quran must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him.
    القرآن الكريم والعلم الحديث كاملة The Quran and Modern Science full Zakir naik youtube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFO4G7zXlUI

  2. #121
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

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    Greetings and peace be with you chalky,
    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    To have a dogmatic belief like ... “this is the truth , and no amount of argument or evidence will ever make me change my mind “
    Is unhealthy
    Forgive me for saying this, but your atheism comes across as dogmatic, as does your belief in the theory of evolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Everything comes in degrees, even scientific theories , which are the most rigorous investigations we do .... are not considered as the set in stone truth , there is always some room left for new evidence.
    The theory of evolution seems very much set in stone, despite all the assumptions that have to be made in order to make it work.

    In the spirit of searching for God
    Eric
    Scientists and ......!

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed View Post
    Why do Hindus believe that their gods are real
    Why do Christians believe Jesus is a real god
    Why did the Greeks believe Zeus was a real god
    Why did the Norse believe you went to Valhalla after you die
    Why do some people believe the earth is flat , or that aliens cost earth and abduct people.


    Okay so first people think earth is flat because they are not knowledgeable and when maps were created they were created flat. And when we look at the horizon does it curve or look consistent? It looks consistent when led to many people believing earth is flat. Quran says the earth is not flat but rather like a turban the day and night wrap around it...which reveals the earth is round and not flat.

    Second hindu lots of muslim scholars belive that it once may have been a religion of god revealed to a specific nation at the time. God keeps sending new message and new prophets when mankind goes astray and the message corrupted when the books get changed or lost. Hinduism used to be a religion of one god and even in hindu scriptures predicted the coming of Muhmmad SAW. God has many characteristics from the Hindus split each of those characteristics into individual gods and startes worshiping them claiming that they are helping them worship the true god which then with time they started to belive the made up gods were gods.

    Christian's like the jews originally used to belive jesus was a man of god but the teachings got corrupted by man names paul the saint. He used to persecute the jews. Not only that emperor Constantine the Roman emperor used to kill Christian's but later became christian. He was a pagan but when he became Christian he wanted the pagan aspect in the new christian so he again killed all the Christian's that worshiped one god to silence the opposing sects. He liked the idea of worshiping multiple gods hence the trinity.

    Now the idea of Zeus's and the multiple gods. It's not possible and its man made concept. Because if there were gods and they were always warring there would chaos everywhere ..this is what the QURAN SAYS.

    Valhalla and the Roman gods is the same as the greek gods. These are made up by humans. The first time mankind made gods and started worshiping was in the beginning there were very pious men. They worshiped god and very good people. When they died the devil came and tricked humans. He said build a statue of them so you can be reminded to worship god. Then the next generation he told them give respect to statue. Then the next generation he said just bow your head little bit. Then next and next the devil kept leading them astray until eventually he said these are your gods. Worship them. This is how the concept of idolism originated.

    Islam is the only logical religion that hasnt been unadulterated and consistent. It is the final message and is for ALL mankind. The other religions are religion of god but they serve their purpose for a specific nation for specific time.

    Isn’t in strange
    If you ask a Christian , their religion is the only logical religion
    If you ask a Jew , their religion is the logical choice
    A Hindu , will tell you that Hinduism is the logical choice
    The Greeks, the Romans , the Norse , would tell you that their religion is the logical choice.
    And you tell me yours is.

    Every believers believes that their religion , is the right one.
    It’s what every religion teaches .
    It’s what you’ve been taught , has it not.

  5. #123
    chalks75's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you chalky,


    Forgive me for saying this, but your atheism comes across as dogmatic, as does your belief in the theory of evolution.



    The theory of evolution seems very much set in stone, despite all the assumptions that have to be made in order to make it work.

    In the spirit of searching for God
    Eric
    My atheism is certainly not dogmatic ,
    If someone can provide evidence that convinced me that a god is real , then I will believe a god is real.

    The theory of evolution is open to be disproved , evidence will modify it.

    If someone disproved evolution , then I would no longer believe it’s true.

    Are you aware how science works ?

    A scientist will propose a hypothesis , publish a paper ( Darwin proposed evolution )
    Right away , other scientists set about trying to disprove it , ( it’s easier to disprove something,) , after 20 years of scientists being unable to disprove it , they gave it the honour of being called a theory ( theories explains facts).

    It’s been over 150 years since Darwin published his paper , and no one has been able to disprove it , on the contrary , in their attempts to disprove it they find more and more evidence to support it.

    Do you realise how easy it would be to disprove if it were untrue.

  6. #124
    Studentofdeed's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    I gave you so many details and facts yet still you ignore them. Darwin HIMSELF said there has to be creator who designed all this. He never denied there was a creator. Islam agrees about evolution and dinosaurs. In the quran it says god has created things we have no knowledge of. One of gods 99 names is the evolver. So islam doesnt reject evolution. The only thing we reject is that humans came from monkey.

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  8. #125
    M.I.A.'s Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    No it can’t be both
    You can’t have free will and not have free at the same time.
    That is a logical contradiction.

    If you believe I pre-destination , then you have no free will.
    Everything you think or do , is pre-determined then you are a “robot “ preforming a role.
    Sure..

    I'm a robot.

    In a world full of humans.

    Does that make any sense to you? ..because your saying it.

    Why are you saying it? Is it an analogy of sorts? Is it true in any way?

    ..maybe you wrote it as a false premise, and we know it cant be true.


    At this point I realised that I had no idea what solipsism is so I googled it.

    Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind.


    ..what are the implications of such a theory? ..And what benefit can be gained from knowing.

    I find it hard to believe that it in itself is anything more that a loose analogy of something more complicated..

    But in reality it sounds like an answer to a question.

    What was the question?



    I thought maybe I was missing something.. so I downloaded a picture.. even if this is not the understanding of solipsism.. this is actually the understanding of solipsism.

    solipsism-all-about-me.jpg

    ...and this second pic gave me the realisation.

    It's not that your saying im a robot and the rest of the world is human.

    Your saying your human and the rest of the world are robots.

    Solipsism.jpg


    Maybe we should just believe in probability and learn to count cards

    :|

    Or wait for another person to give views, explanations and perspectives on predestination and solipsism.

    But in conclusion, your mind making "reality" real is also a few short steps away from believing in a creator..

    Except from another angle.. and maybe another grain of sand on the beach of free will.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 07-27-2019 at 10:08 AM.

  9. #126
    chalks75's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    Sure..

    I'm a robot.

    In a world full of humans.

    Does that make any sense to you? ..because your saying it.

    Why are you saying it? Is it an analogy of sorts? Is it true in any way?

    ..maybe you wrote it as a false premise, and we know it cant be true.


    At this point I realised that I had no idea what solipsism is so I googled it.

    Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind.


    ..what are the implications of such a theory? ..And what benefit can be gained from knowing.

    I find it hard to believe that it in itself is anything more that a loose analogy of something more complicated..

    But in reality it sounds like an answer to a question.

    What was the question?



    I thought maybe I was missing something.. so I downloaded a picture.. even if this is not the understanding of solipsism.. this is actually the understanding of solipsism.

    solipsism-all-about-me.jpg

    ...and this second pic gave me the realisation.

    It's not that your saying im a robot and the rest of the world is human.

    Your saying your human and the rest of the world are robots.

    Solipsism.jpg


    Maybe we should just believe in probability and learn to count cards

    :|

    Or wait for another person to give views, explanations and perspectives on predestination and solipsism.
    I’m not saying that at all.

    I’m saying if there is an infallible omniscient god, then free will is an illusion.
    It’s possible it’s an illusion anyway god or not.

    I’m glad you googled solipsism, at least you know what we are talking about now.

    So now you see what solipsism is , you can see that when someone said to me ( as they have on this forum )
    That they know with 100% certainty that there is a god , that I’m not inclined to believe them.

    Solipsism is the reasons we must make presuppositions to investigate the world.

    I presuppose that
    1. The universe exists
    2. It is intelligible
    3. I am part of it
    These are the only presuppositions that I make

    What presuppositions do you make ?

  10. #127
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    I’m not saying that at all.

    I’m saying if there is an infallible omniscient god, then free will is an illusion.
    It’s possible it’s an illusion anyway god or not.

    I’m glad you googled solipsism, at least you know what we are talking about now.

    So now you see what solipsism is , you can see that when someone said to me ( as they have on this forum )
    That they know with 100% certainty that there is a god , that I’m not inclined to believe them.

    Solipsism is the reasons we must make presuppositions to investigate the world.

    I presuppose that
    1. The universe exists
    2. It is intelligible
    3. I am part of it
    These are the only presuppositions that I make

    What presuppositions do you make ?
    exactly lol, i knew that you dont ascribe to solipsism.. its just something you know about.

    it does not detract from something someone else believes.. unfortunately i cant take solipsism seriously.

    its fundamentally flawed.

    the case is not if the taj mahal exists while i observe the Eiffel tower.. but rather in what state will i observe the Eiffel tower.. mentally.

    this is a video explaining solipsism.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv4bKg8YAD8

    whats important and totally has the goalposts moved on it.. is the introduction of the video.

    observe the interaction between the guy and his friend. *


    what do you think?

    i have to go do things so i will probably think about your post later on.


    You cant really make headway on your question can you, either god exists or god does not exist..

    You can choose to sit in either camp, but I dont know if you will be happy just sitting.

    *
    ...wouldn't it be funny if he cant leave the train station.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 07-27-2019 at 10:59 AM.

  11. #128
    chalks75's Avatar
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    Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    exactly lol, i knew that you dont ascribe to solipsism.. its just something you know about.

    it does not detract from something someone else believes.. unfortunately i cant take solipsism seriously.

    its fundamentally flawed.

    the case is not if the taj mahal exists while i observe the Eiffel tower.. but rather in what state will i observe the Eiffel tower.. mentally.

    this is a video explaining solipsism.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv4bKg8YAD8

    whats important and totally has the goalposts moved on it.. is the introduction of the video.

    observe the interaction between the guy and his friend. *


    what do you think?

    i have to go do things so i will probably think about your post later on.


    You cant really make headway on your question can you, either god exists or god does not exist..

    You can choose to sit in either camp, but I dont know if you will be happy just sitting.

    *
    ...wouldn't it be funny if he cant leave the train station.
    Solipsism isn’t something you ascribe to.

    It’s a problem that we all have to deal with .
    I’m not saying we are living in a matrix , I’m saying it can’t be proved that we are not.

    So where does that leave the guy who told me , he knows with 100% certainty that a god exists.


    “it does not detract from something someone else believes.. unfortunately i cant take solipsism seriously”.

    This is my point , a person can believe something , but can they know it with 100% certainty.
    So when the poster on this forum said “ I know 100% there is a god , you can see why I don’t take that claim seriously.

    If he had said , I dont know if there is a god , but I 100% believe there is , then that’s ok

    You dont have to take it seriously , all you have to do is acknowledge it.

    The only way you or I can get around this problem is if we make pre-suppositions.
    The less the better.
    Last edited by chalks75; 07-27-2019 at 12:25 PM.

  12. #129
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you chalks75,



    Evolution is not in conflict with my religious beliefs, it is in conflict with my basic understanding of mechanical engineering. The human body is made up of around 500 muscles, 200 bones, 500 ligaments and 1000 tendons. If you are an engineer, you can look at how all these components are linked together to create movement. A skeleton is just a bunch of levers and joints; we should be able to mechanically replicate this same range of movement easily, but we can't.

    Every advance in robotic engineering comes about by teams of engineers using intelligent design. The robots we produce now are highly complex, but still primitive compared to our human bodies. Every future improvement will come about by intelligent design.

    I understand the theory behind random mutation and natural selection. I sincerely believe that blind evolution could not produce the mechanics of a skeletal system that teams of our best engineers can't, there is just too much individual detail. The only way I believe evolution could happen is if God was directing it. But that is in conflict with random mutation; because if God directed evolution, how could you call mutations random?

    In the spirit of searching for God,
    Eric
    Either we were created by a god , or we were not.
    If the Quran , or your religion claims we were created by a god ... then that claim is either right or wrong.

    Evolution states that we evolved , we were not created in a special creation event.
    ( unless , you are saying that god began life , and everything evolved from it )

    Let me ask you this , since you are an engineer.

    If you were to design a structure to support a 10lb weight , with the range of motion the human head has .... would you put three curves in it ?
    Would this not put unnecessary stress on the lower part of the structure ?

    Why does the spine have 3 curves ?
    This causes billions of people to have lower back pain .... not a great bit of design.

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    M.I.A.'s Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Solipsism isn’t something you ascribe to.

    It’s a problem that we all have to deal with .
    I’m not saying we are living in a matrix , I’m saying it can’t be proved that we are not.

    So where does that leave the guy who told me , he knows with 100% certainty that a god exists.


    “it does not detract from something someone else believes.. unfortunately i cant take solipsism seriously”.

    This is my point , a person can believe something , but can they know it with 100% certainty.
    So when the poster on this forum said “ I know 100% there is a god , you can see why I don’t take that claim seriously.

    If he had said , I dont know if there is a god , but I 100% believe there is , then that’s ok

    You dont have to take it seriously , all you have to do is acknowledge it.

    The only way you or I can get around this problem is if we make pre-suppositions.
    The less the better.
    For him god exists..

    As an external and internal part of his reality.

    His understanding of god could be anything.

    ..its like pointing to the sun and saying god exists.

    The sun exists.

    So by extension..

    Anyway, your argument is not seeing the wood for the trees.

    I have no doubt that you exist.

    ...but in what form you exist.. I dont know yet.

    What part of my thought processes, ideologies, ego, psyche, subconsciousness you mirror.

    And if your strong enough not to.

    Dont get stuck thinking about people pointing at the moon and saying God exists.


    Went to get trainers for my kid, ended up walking past an EDL protest... not cool, cant find it on any news yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    I presuppose that
    1. The universe exists
    2. It is intelligible
    3. I am part of it
    These are the only presuppositions that I make

    What presuppositions do you make ?
    1. yes
    2. yes
    2. yes

    well in this case,

    4. god exists..

    so what do you find... looking for god?

    you might not be looking for god, most people take time out to "find themselves" whatever that means.

    at the end of the day, if 1, 2 and 3 are more than simplistic answers.. people have dedicated entire lives and fields of study towards them.


    as an atheist, your not going to get further than wanting proof of gods existence.

    we cant get past that point..

    maybe you should go looking for something else.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 07-27-2019 at 02:57 PM.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    For him god exists..

    As an external and internal part of his reality.

    His understanding of god could be anything.

    ..its like pointing to the sun and saying god exists.

    The sun exists.

    So by extension..

    Anyway, your argument is not seeing the wood for the trees.

    I have no doubt that you exist.

    ...but in what form you exist.. I dont know yet.

    What part of my thought processes, ideologies, ego, psyche, subconsciousness you mirror.

    And if your strong enough not to.

    Dont get stuck thinking about people pointing at the moon and saying God exists.


    Went to get trainers for my kid, ended up walking past an EDL protest... not cool, cant find it on any news yet.



    1. yes
    2. yes
    2. yes

    well in this case,

    4. god exists..

    so what do you find... looking for god?

    you might not be looking for god, most people take time out to "find themselves" whatever that means.

    at the end of the day, if 1, 2 and 3 are more than simplistic answers.. people have dedicated entire lives and fields of study towards them.
    EDL, are a bunch of morons.
    I welcome diversity, variety is the spice of life.
    Live and let live , is what I say.
    The rise of right wing fundamentalism is very concerning, in fact fundamentalism in any guise is concerning religious or political, I was brought up in N Ireland in the 70s and 80s I’m painfully aware of the dangers offundamentalism, and nationalism .
    I imagine being a Muslim at this time , would be very much like being black in the 50s.

    “ for him god exists “
    Either a god exists or a god does not
    A god may “ exist” in his mind , but that is not the same as a god existing in reality.

    Your missing the point , I’ve no doubt that you exist ,, it’s what we can prove , I can’t prove you exist 100%, I could probably prove it 99.9% ,

    1,2,3 are the necessary pre-suppositions I must make to enable me to make sense of the universe , these are the least amount that I can make.

    I’m not sure how you make the logical connection between 1,2,3 and a god exists.

    If I were to give you my opinion
    I’ve been studying religions for about 8-9 years , talking to religious people , mostly Christians , and Hindus , and a few Jews .

    I think god or gods are a concept , they are an attempt by us to explain the universe and our place in it.
    There are no real gods
    There are only people that believe gods are real.
    Cultures ,people , tribes , when faced with fundament questions like , how did life begin , or how did the universe begin
    Created answers ( gods) , it seems to be a common phenomenon throughout our history.

  16. #132
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    EDL, are a bunch of morons.
    I welcome diversity, variety is the spice of life.
    Live and let live , is what I say.
    The rise of right wing fundamentalism is very concerning, in fact fundamentalism in any guise is concerning religious or political, I was brought up in N Ireland in the 70s and 80s I’m painfully aware of the dangers offundamentalism, and nationalism .
    I imagine being a Muslim at this time , would be very much like being black in the 50s.

    “ for him god exists “
    Either a god exists or a god does not
    A god may “ exist” in his mind , but that is not the same as a god existing in reality.

    Your missing the point , I’ve no doubt that you exist ,, it’s what we can prove , I can’t prove you exist 100%, I could probably prove it 99.9% ,

    1,2,3 are the necessary pre-suppositions I must make to enable me to make sense of the universe , these are the least amount that I can make.

    I’m not sure how you make the logical connection between 1,2,3 and a god exists.

    If I were to give you my opinion
    I’ve been studying religions for about 8-9 years , talking to religious people , mostly Christians , and Hindus , and a few Jews .

    I think god or gods are a concept , they are an attempt by us to explain the universe and our place in it.
    There are no real gods
    There are only people that believe gods are real.
    Cultures ,people , tribes , when faced with fundament questions like , how did life begin , or how did the universe begin
    Created answers ( gods) , it seems to be a common phenomenon throughout our history.
    what does your morality create? what does other peoples morality create?

    in reality i dont exist lol.

    most of the things that go through my mind are put to the side in order to function, so much so that i dissociate them from myself.. they are not a real reflection of who i am and what i want to be.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 07-27-2019 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    what does your morality create? what does other peoples morality create?

    in reality i dont exist lol.

    most of the things that go through my mind are put to the side in order to function, so much so that i dissociate them from myself.. they are not a real reflection of who i am and what i want to be.

    I am a secular humanist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism

    Morality is different all around the globe , somethings we agree on , done we don’t.
    I think the important thing is to examine what you believe to be moral , and not just blindly follow , we must always be vigilant about what we are being told , and who is telling us, and why.

    ***********************

    Thoughts are just thoughts , not particularly good or bad , it’s only when you act upon them does it become a moral issue.

    In saying that , obsessively thinking positive or negative thoughts can have an impact on your mental health.

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    Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Studentofdeed View Post
    I gave you so many details and facts yet still you ignore them. Darwin HIMSELF said there has to be creator who designed all this. He never denied there was a creator. Islam agrees about evolution and dinosaurs. In the quran it says god has created things we have no knowledge of. One of gods 99 names is the evolver. So islam doesnt reject evolution. The only thing we reject is that humans came from monkey.
    If you reject that we evolved from s common ancestor with apes ... then you reject evolution.

    If the Quran says that we were created as fully formed humans .... then the Quran is at odds with science.
    Both cannot be true.

    Darwin was a Christian and a creationist , he set out to prove special creation.
    The evidence he gathered , when he examined it ,led him to a different conclusion , he was honest enough and brave enough to follow the evidence.

    ( there was another scientist , Jean baptiste lamark , who came to the same conclusion as Darwin , working independently from Darwin , Darwin just published first , if Lanark had published first we would be discussing larmakian evolution )

    Evolution is a fact , things evolve, this was know before Darwin’s time ,,, Darwin just discovered the mechanism by which it works
    ( natural selection )
    Last edited by chalks75; 07-27-2019 at 05:18 PM.

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  20. #135
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Greetings and peace be with you chalky,

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Either we were created by a god , or we were not.
    You could be a 100% right or wrong on the toss of a coin.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    If you were to design a structure to support a 10lb weight , with the range of motion the human head has .... would you put three curves in it ?
    Would this not put unnecessary stress on the lower part of the structure ?

    Why does the spine have 3 curves ?
    I agree, we are not a perfect design; and I see death as the biggest imperfection. As to the spine having three curves, I would suggest this is more an argument against the theory of evolution. How and why should such a complex design evolve over thousand of years? You have the first part of the vertebra, which in itself is a complex shape, then in order for the second part of the vertebra to be of any use, it needs tendons, ligaments, muscles, nerves and a brain, repeat for each separate vertebra. Evolution seems to go against your idea of simple design.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    This causes billions of people to have lower back pain .... not a great bit of design.
    Even if God created us in a way that we did not suffer pain, we would still go around killing others and doing all the immoral stuff that happens in this world. As a species; we ignore the needs of the most vulnerable. About twenty thousand children die needlessly every day as a result of grinding poverty, preventable disease and starvation. This is not how God wants us to treat each other. There are enough resources to feed the poor, we just do not have enough to satisfy the rich.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    No it can’t be both
    You can’t have free will and not have free at the same time.
    That is a logical contradiction.
    If you come to a stop sign in the road, you have the freedom to ignore it. But you also know that if you willingly choose to ignore the stop sign, there is the chance that you could cause a horrific accident. We might be free to do most things, but not all things are good, sometimes it is better to give up our right to do anything we want. This does not make us robots because we obey laws, it makes us better citizens.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
    Eric
    Last edited by Eric H; 07-27-2019 at 05:53 PM.
    Scientists and ......!

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  21. #136
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Chance in our life!
    Is our birth due to chance?
    Are our parents our Creators?

    , but some will say that it is due to chance.
    But scientifically this is not the case. The protein molecule is a very important structure of a living cell.
    It is composed of 5 elements:
    - The Carbon
    - Nitrogen
    - Oxygen
    - Hydrogen
    - Sulfur
    Knowing that there are thousands of atoms that are required for a protein molecule, as in a building game, the elements will come together to eventually form and create a protein molecule.
    Dr. Frank Allen (professor of Biophysics) has calculated the probability that this creative assemblage can be done, he says: "the chance that it can happen is 1/10160 is 0.00 ... .001."
    If 1% = 0.01 is 1 / 10²; 0.1% = 0.001 (1 / 10³) is 1 chance in 1000, now imagine 1/10160!
    In mathematics 1/1050 is considered 0. Chance is impossible.


    Now how big is the substance needed to form a single molecule of protein? Let's not forget that we are talking about a protein molecule that is infinitely small. Charles Guy (physicist) measured the size of this substance and he says: "To form this molecule we need a substance that is as big as our galaxy thousands of times. Thousands of galaxies are needed to form a protein molecule. He also calculated the time required to form this molecule that is 10243 years, all for a single molecule.
    Now how much protein molecule is there in a human cell? And how many cells are there in a human being?
    Doctors tell us that there are more than 6 billion molecules in a newborn baby!
    The probability that a protein molecule is formed by chance is 1/10160 and the time of this formation is 10243 years and in a newborn there are 6 billion molecules.
    And how many women are pregnant at the same time, millions at the same time. According to statistics, there are 260 births per minute, so 374,000 per day or 136 million per year knowing that a birth takes only nine months. Science says the chances are downright ZERO.
    According to an advertisement published in "Le Figaro" the number of cells in a human being is about 100,000 trillion and there are about 250 types in the body of every human being.



    In each cell, there is a nucleus that contains the genes, the material that gives the instructions to the cell to function as well as to the organ and the body. And there is an instruction manual in the core of each cell. If we wish to put these instructions in the form of a book, it would be necessary to fill 900 books of 500 pages and this for only one cell! So what about 100,000 billion cells?
    If we see writings on a beach then there is certainly intelligence and in each cell there is information then where does this information come from?
    Certainly this is a very learned person.
    Until then we have only talked about the human being, what about birds, insects, fish, ... animals in general, plants, fruits ... all having different characteristics, all coming from from the same earth, all needing water. Similarly for stars, planets, galaxies. The sun is placed at a good distance from us so that life can be developed there. The earth, rotating around the sun, follows a precise orbit so that every 30km it deviates only 2.8 mm. If the earth deviated a few millimeters from its orbit would cause a disaster on earth. If the deviation was 2.5mm, its orbit would be higher and we would all be frozen. And if the orbit was 3.1 it would burn. All this can not happen by coincidence!


    Nature follows a plan designed in advance. After the explosion of the Big Bang everything was extremely well adjusted. Just as there is a DNA code there is a cosmological code that governs all of this. These things are not programmed by chance but by someone very powerful, very glorious and extremely learned and intelligent. Science tells us that there is someone, a super natural force, and the question, where do these laws come from and who wrote them?
    Albert Einstein says in a letter sent to a child who asked him if he believed in God here is what he replied:
    "All those who are seriously involved in science will eventually understand that a mind is manifested by the laws of the vast universe emancipation superior to that of man. "
    Francis Bacon (French philosopher) says:
    "A little knowledge takes you away from God Almighty. But a deep knowledge of science makes you a believer in God. "
    Scientists do not eliminate God but the models of God ... we must meditate to believe and never confuse atheism and science.
    We read different books, different authors but if a book relates to God dictated to one of his prophets, should not we make the effort to read it in full?

    Similarly, if we do not understand one thing, we must make efforts to understand it, which is not difficult in our day.
    Scientific Proof for Atheist on Existence of God...Answer By: ...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuZh8Tt8v-A

  22. #137
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    Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you chalky,



    You could be a 100% right or wrong on the toss of a coin.



    I agree, we are not a perfect design; and I see death as the biggest imperfection. As to the spine having three curves, I would suggest this is more an argument against the theory of evolution. How and why should such a complex design evolve over thousand of years? You have the first part of the vertebra, which in itself is a complex shape, then in order for the second part of the vertebra to be of any use, it needs tendons, ligaments, muscles, nerves and a brain, repeat for each separate vertebra. Evolution seems to go against your idea of simple design.



    Even if God created us in a way that we did not suffer pain, we would still go around killing others and doing all the immoral stuff that happens in this world. As a species; we ignore the needs of the most vulnerable. About twenty thousand children die needlessly every day as a result of grinding poverty, preventable disease and starvation. This is not how God wants us to treat each other. There are enough resources to feed the poor, we just do not have enough to satisfy the rich.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
    Eric
    It’s a law of logic , something is or it is not , it can’t be both.

    Isn’t in funny how religions always offer sone kind of eternal life , you would nearly think some people had a pathological fear of death.
    For me death is a part of life , the fact that life is so short is what makes it precious.

    There is an evolutionary explanation as to why there are 3 curves in our spine.

    If god designed it , then he designed it badly on purpose , knowing it would cause us pain ... that is evil

    Between you me and god, only one of us had the power to end all those social problems ...

    Consider this , would you watch a person starve to death , if you had the power to help ,
    I know I wouldnt , I do .

    Yet , every single man , woman , child , that has ever starved to death ... god had the power to help , yet he choose not to.

    That is evil
    Last edited by chalks75; 07-27-2019 at 11:30 PM.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    The Solar
    The notion of a settled place for the sun is vividly described in chapter Yaa Seen of the Qur’an:
    “The sun runs its coarse to a settled place That is the decree of the Almighty, the All Knowing.” Qur’an, 36:38
    “Settled place” is the translation of the word mustaqarr which indicates an exact appointed place and time. Modern astronomy confirms that the solar system is indeed moving in space at a rate of 12 miles per second towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules ( alpha lyrae ) whose exact location has been precisely calculated. Astronomers have even give it a name, the solar apex.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po65ViMfwTE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqw91ihJcQw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4SiHSCemT8

    Among the achievements of modern science is the “conquest” of space which has resulted in mans journey to the moon. The prediction of this event surely springs to mind when we read the chapter ar-Rahmaan in the Qur’an:
    “O assembly of Jinns and men, if you can penetrate the regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate them! You will not penetrate them except with authority.”
    Qur’an,55:33
    Authority to travel in space can only come from the Creator of the laws which govern movement and space. The whole of this Qur’anic chapter invites humankind to recognize God’s beneficence.

    At this point, we must ask ourselves the following question: How could an uneducated man in the middle of the desert accurately tackle so many and such varied subjects at a time when mythology and superstition reigned supreme? How could he so skillfully avoid every belief that was proven to be totally inaccurate many centuries later?


    THE SEAL OF ALL THE PROPHETS MUHAMMAD PBUH - Muhammad Abdul Jabbar | ALQADRMEDIA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blxHYZfX78k

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by yasoooo View Post
    The Solar
    The notion of a settled place for the sun is vividly described in chapter Yaa Seen of the Qur’an:
    “The sun runs its coarse to a settled place That is the decree of the Almighty, the All Knowing.” Qur’an, 36:38
    “Settled place” is the translation of the word mustaqarr which indicates an exact appointed place and time. Modern astronomy confirms that the solar system is indeed moving in space at a rate of 12 miles per second towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules ( alpha lyrae ) whose exact location has been precisely calculated. Astronomers have even give it a name, the solar apex.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po65ViMfwTE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqw91ihJcQw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4SiHSCemT8

    Among the achievements of modern science is the “conquest” of space which has resulted in mans journey to the moon. The prediction of this event surely springs to mind when we read the chapter ar-Rahmaan in the Qur’an:
    “O assembly of Jinns and men, if you can penetrate the regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate them! You will not penetrate them except with authority.”
    Qur’an,55:33
    Authority to travel in space can only come from the Creator of the laws which govern movement and space. The whole of this Qur’anic chapter invites humankind to recognize God’s beneficence.

    At this point, we must ask ourselves the following question: How could an uneducated man in the middle of the desert accurately tackle so many and such varied subjects at a time when mythology and superstition reigned supreme? How could he so skillfully avoid every belief that was proven to be totally inaccurate many centuries later?


    THE SEAL OF ALL THE PROPHETS MUHAMMAD PBUH - Muhammad Abdul Jabbar | ALQADRMEDIA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blxHYZfX78k
    The sun isn’t motionless
    Not only does it spin but nuts axis , it’s also part of a spiral galaxy that spins , and that galaxy is also moving through space.

    Instead of going through your book and trying to find verses that you can interpret in a way that seems to coincide with our modern world, “ this must have have meant that “

    Why don’t you give me a verse that describes a future scientific discovery.

    What’s a jinn?

    If it isn’t to much trouble could you quote the verse before and after 55:53

    And the verse before and after 36:38

    It’s important for context

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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Greetings and peace be with you chalky,
    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    If god designed it , then he designed it badly on purpose , knowing it would cause us pain ... that is evil
    The human vertebral column has four curves (or arches) to help support the upright posture. ... If humans had a perfectly straight backbone, we would have major pains such as arthritis throughout the spine because there will be no distribution of weight and more pressure on the bones.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Consider this , would you watch a person starve to death , if you had the power to help ,
    I know I would , I do .
    I also help, as do many people with a faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Yet , every single man , woman , child , that has ever starved to death ... god had the power to help , yet he choose not to.

    That is evil
    Humanity is evil, not God. God sent you, me and everyone else to be a part of the solution. Scriptures are full of passages about helping the poor, oppressed, refugees, widows and orphans. If we all obeyed God, there would be no problems. And just think, if people have died as a result of injustice in this life, God can grant them eternal happiness in the next. We are powerless to put any injustice right.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Isn’t in funny how religions always offer sone kind of eternal life , you would nearly think some people had a pathological fear of death.
    We have the offer of eternal life if we strive to do the will of God, but as you say, life is to be lived. In 2011 I had tests done for cancer, about a month later the doctor phoned and said he urgently wanted to see me, it was non – Hodgkin Lymphoma. This was a name I recognised, our friend had this cancer, and died a few months later. I prayed for the wisdom, strength and peace to do God’s will, whether the cancer was a death sentence, or just an inconvenience. I can only say that from the moment of making this prayer, I have experienced a profound sense of peace, and the thought of cancer has never troubled me for a moment.

    Cancer could be a truly worrying process, you wait a month or two for tests, you wait for the results, and you wait for more tests. I have never once prayed for healing, at the age of 62, the prayer for healing seemed too complicated, it might or might not be my time to go. Recognising this profound sense of peace comes from God, gives me reason to be thankful.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
    Eric
    | Likes Zafran liked this post
    Scientists and ......!

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