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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Scientists and ......! (OP)


    The following are some comments of scientists[1] on the scientific miracles in the Holy Quran.

    1) Dr. T. V. N. Persaud is Professor of Anatomy, Professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, and Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Reproductive Sciences at the University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. There, he was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy for 16 years. He is well-known in his field. He is the author or editor of 22 textbooks and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. When he was asked about the scientific miracles in the Quran which he has researched, he stated the following:

    “The way it was explained to me is that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read, didn’t know [how] to write. In fact, he was an illiterate. And we’re talking about twelve [actually about fourteen] hundred years ago. You have someone illiterate making profound pronouncements and statements and that are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. And I personally can’t see how this could be a mere chance. There are too many accuracies and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements.”


    Professor Persaud has included some Quranic verses and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, in some of his books. He has also presented these verses and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad at several conferences.

    2) Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson is the Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, and Professor of Molecular and Human Genetics at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA. Formerly, he was Professor of Ob-Gyn and the Chairman of the Department of Ob-Gyn at the University of Tennessee, Memphis, Tennessee, USA. He was also the President of the American Fertility Society. He has received many awards, including the Association of Professors of Obstetrics and Gynecology Public Recognition Award in 1992. Professor Simpson studied the following two sayings of the Prophet Muhammad:

    “In every one of you, all components of your creation are collected together in your mother’s womb by forty days...”[2]

    “If forty-two nights have passed over the embryo, God sends an angel to it, who shapes it and creates its hearing, vision, skin, flesh, and bones....”[3]

    He studied these two sayings of the Prophet Muhammad extensively, noting that the first forty days constitute a clearly distinguishable stage of embryo-genesis. He was particularly impressed by the absolute precision and accuracy of those sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. Then, during one conference, he gave the following opinion:

    “So that the two hadeeths (the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) that have been noted provide us with a specific time table for the main embryological development before forty days. Again, the point has been made, I think, repeatedly by other speakers this morning: these hadeeths could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available [at] the time of their writing . . . . It follows, I think, that not only there is no conflict between genetics and religion but, in fact, religion can guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches, that there exist statements in the Quran shown centuries later to be valid, which support knowledge in the Quran having been derived from God.”

    3) Dr. E. Marshall Johnson is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Developmental Biology at Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. There, for 22 years he was Professor of Anatomy, the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy, and the Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute. He was also the President of the Teratology Society. He has authored more than 200 publications. In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Johnson said in the presentation of his research paper:

    “Summary: The Quran describes not only the development of external form, but emphasizes also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science.”

    Also he said: “As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Quran. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I knew today and describing things, I could not describe the things which were described. I see no evidence for the fact to refute the concept that this individual, Muhammad, had to be developing this information from some place. So I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write.


    4) Dr. William W. Hay is a well-known marine scientist. He is Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, USA. He was formerly the Dean of the Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science at the University of Miami, Miami, Florida, USA. After a discussion with Professor Hay about the Quran’s mention of recently discovered facts on seas, he said:

    “I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scriptures of the Holy Quran, and I have no way of knowing where they would come from, but I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and that this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages.” And when he was asked about the source of the Quran, he replied: “Well, I would think it must be the divine being.”


    5) Dr. Gerald C. Goeringer is Course Director and Associate Professor of Medical Embryology at the Department of Cell Biology, School of Medicine, Georgetown University, Washington, DC, USA. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Goeringer stated the following in the presentation of his research paper:

    “In a relatively few aayahs (Quranic verses) is contained a rather comprehensive description of human development from the time of commingling of the gametes through organogenesis. No such distinct and complete record of human development, such as classification, terminology, and description, existed previously. In most, if not all, instances, this description antedates by many centuries the recording of the various stages of human embryonic and fetal development recorded in the traditional scientific literature.”


    6) Dr. Yoshihide Kozai is Professor Emeritus at Tokyo University, Hongo, Tokyo, Japan, and was the Director of the National Astronomical Observatory, Mitaka, Tokyo, Japan. He said:

    “I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in [the] Quran, and for us the modern astronomers have been studying very small pieces of the universe. We’ve concentrated our efforts for understanding of [a] very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts [of] the sky without thinking [about the] whole universe. So, by reading [the] Quran and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe.”


    7) Professor Tejatat Tejasen is the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai, Thailand. Previously, he was the Dean of the Faculty of Medicine at the same university. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Tejasen stood up and said:

    “During the last three years, I became interested in the Quran . . . . From my study and what I have learned from this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Quran fourteen hundred years ago must be the truth, that can be proved by the scientific means. Since the Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write, Muhammad must be a messenger who relayed this truth, which was revealed to him as an enlightenment by the one who is eligible [as the] creator.

    This creator must be God. Therefore, I think this is the time to say La ilaha illa Allah, there is no god to worship except Allah (God), Muhammadur rasoolu Allah, Muhammad is Messenger (Prophet) of Allah (God). Lastly, I must congratulate for the excellent and highly successful arrangement for this conference . . . . I have gained not only from the scientific point of view and religious point of view but also the great chance of meeting many well-known scientists and making many new friends among the participants. The most precious thing of all that I have gained by coming to this place is La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah, and to have become a Muslim.”



    After all these examples we have seen about the scientific miracles in the Holy Quran and all these scientists’ comments on this, let us ask ourselves these questions:

    • Could it be a coincidence that all this recently discovered scientific information from different fields was mentioned in the Quran, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago?

    • Could this Quran have been authored by Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, or by any other human being?

    The only possible answer is that this Quran must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him.
    القرآن الكريم والعلم الحديث كاملة The Quran and Modern Science full Zakir naik youtube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFO4G7zXlUI

  2. #141
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you chalky,


    The human vertebral column has four curves (or arches) to help support the upright posture. ... If humans had a perfectly straight backbone, we would have major pains such as arthritis throughout the spine because there will be no distribution of weight and more pressure on the bones.



    I also help, as do many people with a faith.



    Humanity is evil, not God. God sent you, me and everyone else to be a part of the solution. Scriptures are full of passages about helping the poor, oppressed, refugees, widows and orphans. If we all obeyed God, there would be no problems. And just think, if people have died as a result of injustice in this life, God can grant them eternal happiness in the next. We are powerless to put any injustice right.



    We have the offer of eternal life if we strive to do the will of God, but as you say, life is to be lived. In 2011 I had tests done for cancer, about a month later the doctor phoned and said he urgently wanted to see me, it was non – Hodgkin Lymphoma. This was a name I recognised, our friend had this cancer, and died a few months later. I prayed for the wisdom, strength and peace to do God’s will, whether the cancer was a death sentence, or just an inconvenience. I can only say that from the moment of making this prayer, I have experienced a profound sense of peace, and the thought of cancer has never troubled me for a moment.

    Cancer could be a truly worrying process, you wait a month or two for tests, you wait for the results, and you wait for more tests. I have never once prayed for healing, at the age of 62, the prayer for healing seemed too complicated, it might or might not be my time to go. Recognising this profound sense of peace comes from God, gives me reason to be thankful.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
    Eric
    Sorry to hear about the cancer , I hope it’s gone and it never returnsScientists and ......!

    Are you saying the spine we have is the best god could do ,even though billions of people suffer from lower back pain , because it is the way it is ?

    I agree there are some people who are evil .

    But
    If a person is evil for watching someone starve to death , why isn’t god.
    He has watched billions starve , he could have helped them with a simple thought, yet he choose not to .... that is evil.

    Do you think watching people starve to death is a good thing ?

    God sent the scriptures ?
    That hasn’t been much help to the millions that died before he sent them, the millions that will die since he sent them ... it’s not a great system he has going.

    As for death , death is a natural part of life .
    I imagine being dead , was like how I was before I was born.
    I won’t know I’m dead , I will be aware of nothing

    I can imagine the fear death holds for people , so it’s not surprising they would create and cling to a comfort blanket.
    There are only two things we can be sure of “ death and taxes”

    Your belief that you will go to paradise , is it any less ( I hesitate to use the word ) silly , than believing you will be reincarnated, you will go to Valhalla , that you will go to the sky to be with your ancestors.

    Death is what makes life a precious and rare gift ....! If we live for eternity , then life is meaningless.

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  4. #142
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    We have the offer of eternal life if we strive to do the will of God, but as you say, life is to be lived. In 2011 I had tests done for cancer, about a month later the doctor phoned and said he urgently wanted to see me, it was non – Hodgkin Lymphoma. This was a name I recognised, our friend had this cancer, and died a few months later. I prayed for the wisdom, strength and peace to do God’s will, whether the cancer was a death sentence, or just an inconvenience. I can only say that from the moment of making this prayer, I have experienced a profound sense of peace, and the thought of cancer has never troubled me for a moment.

    Cancer could be a truly worrying process, you wait a month or two for tests, you wait for the results, and you wait for more tests. I have never once prayed for healing, at the age of 62, the prayer for healing seemed too complicated, it might or might not be my time to go. Recognising this profound sense of peace comes from God, gives me reason to be thankful.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
    Eric
    Hope your doing fine Eric. May God preserve you Bro and give you strength.
    | Likes Junon, Eric H liked this post
    Scientists and ......!

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

  5. #143
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Greetings and peace be with you chalky, and thanks for the thumbs up,

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Sorry to hear about the cancer , I hope it’s gone and it never returns
    I am 70 now, I still work part time and do a fair amount of voluntary work, so I don't have the time to worry about cancer. The prayer for the wisdom and the peace to do God's will, is more important than the thought of death; I will try and explain how it works in another way.

    I have been a volunteer street pastor for the last 11 years, we wonder the streets until around 4 am on a Saturday morning. We go out because we care about people, we listen and try to help when we can, we do not go out to preach. We meet a lot of wonderful people as well as drunks, anger, aggression, suicide, depression and we have asked people to hand us their knives.

    I can remember the first big fight we saw, we walked round the corner and witnessed a dozen people punching the living daylights out of each other. We have a dilemma, on the one hand we have policies, risk assessments and a radio with a direct link to the police, our other choice is to pray as we go. As we approached I saw a man punched to the ground, another man was being kicked on the ground and a woman was punched in the face. Seconds later we are walking in the middle of all this turmoil trying to keep people apart and I am conscious of people all around me. I can only say that I experienced a profound sense of peace that is beyond my understanding, and after a short while the fighting stops. we stay with these people for some time, and when it is time to leave, we are given lots of handshakes and hugs.

    At the time I was with two amazing ladies both in their seventies, logically it does not make sense that pensioners should be able to bring about peace in such circumstances, but I have witnessed this many times. The prayer for the peace to do God's will gives us the hope that something good can come about. God willing, I can still be doing this in another ten years when I am eighty.

    In the spirit of praying for a peace that surpasses all understanding,
    Eric
    Scientists and ......!

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  6. #144
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    The following is stated in a verse in the Quran: "…nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered) but is (inscribed) in a Clear Book (to those who can read)" (al-An'am 59). What is meant by the phrase, "Kitab al-Mubin" (Clear Book)? Islamic scholars interpreted it as both the Quran and "Lawh al-Mahfuz" (Prescribed Tablet).
    Lawh al-Mahfuz is a tablet whose secret and content is known by Allah only and in which everything that is known by Allah and everything that happened and will happen is written. That is, it is the Qadar book of Allah.
    We cannot claim that the verse denotes only one of those two possibilities. Then, it can be said that both Lawh al-Mahfuz and the Quran are meant by the phrase Kitab al-Mubin.


    In this case, everything is written clearly in detail in Lawh al-Mahfuz and is summarized in the Quran. The difference between them is like the difference between a tree and its seed. For instance, a fig seed is as small as a point but it includes a big fig tree in it with all of its characteristics (its height, branches, leaves, fruits, taste, aroma, etc…); it carries all aspects (material and spiritual) of the fig tree in the genes that we cannot see in the form of programs. It is a reality proved scientifically.
    Therefore, the important events of the past and the future are recorded in the Quran in the form of summaries and signs just like the seed.
    However, it is not possible for everybody to see and understand it. Some scholars that are experts about the issue can perceive or see them.


    It is normal for the following question to come to the mind: What is the reason why the scientific discoveries that are very important for the humanity like the plane, train and electricity are not explained clearly in the Quran? It is possible to answer this question, which comes to everybody’s mind, from a few aspects:
    1- From the point of view of the main purpose of the Quran:The main purpose of the Quran is not to give us scientific information or to present us with historical information related to the past and the future. It is neither a book of history, geography, physics, chemistry or a book of discoveries and inventions. To look for the information that are found in those books in the Quran originates from lack of knowing the main purpose of the Quran and knowing it thoroughly.


    First and foremost, the Quran is a book of religion. That is, it is a book informing people about Allah and their duties toward Allah. In fact, all religions try to explain “the Creator” and “the duties of the creatures”, which are two unknown things, for people. “Who is the Creator? What is the Creator? What kind of a being is He? What did He do? What is He doing? What is His purpose in creating people and things?”
    Man wants to find out and understand those issues. We want to know and understand: “What are creatures? Where did they come from? What will happen to them in the end? What are their functions and duties in this world?”


    The main purpose of the Quran is to inform people about their Lord and themselves by answering those questions.
    The Quran mentions other creatures along with those issues. The earth and the sky, the moon, the sun and the stars, animals and trees, mountains, seas and rivers are all mentioned in the Quran. However, the reason why they are mentioned is the two purposes mentioned above: either to mention the power of Allah and His authority on them, and to inform people about Allah by using them as evidence and means or to mention their benefits and uses for people and to mention the purpose of their creation, to remind people of their duties of servitude and to encourage people to fulfill them.
    Galaxies, the number of the stars, and scientific information like the diameter of the sun, its distance to the world, the rays it transmits, and the degree of its heat is not mentioned in the Quran because the information that describes those things is not important from the point of view of worshipping Allah. Despite all of its magnitude and service, the sun is mentioned as a “lamp” or “candle” in terms of its importance in the framework of worshipping. The world is sometimes a cradle and sometimes a mattress. The sky is a ceiling decorated with stars.


    How can human inventions demand the right to be mentioned in the Quran while the vast universe is described like that? They are very small and insignificant in terms of their bodies and service compared to the components of the universe. Then, an indirect mentioning by the Quran for the human inventions is enough for them. We will see later that it is done like that.
    2- From the point of view of the mystery of testing:Another reason why the Quran does not mention scientific inventions or the past and future events clearly enough for everybody to understand is a necessity of the mystery of testing. We mean this: Human beings were not created on a fixed and unchangeable ability like the other creatures. Man can progress (be elevated) or regress (descend) due to his nature. He can progress spiritually and surpass angels or he can regress ethically and fall down to a level lower than that of animals.
    God Almighty did not leave man unattended after creating him like that. He taught human beings how to progress and reach lofty targets through prophets; He also showed them the obstacles that will prevent progress and the causes that will humiliate and lower them; He said to them, "Here are two ways before you; one of them leads to progress and the other leads to descent. Do not lower yourself by obeying Satan. Otherwise, you will be accounted for it and you will lose eternally."
    The spiritual and even material elevation of man depends on choosing this true path, which is shown to him, with his free will. Life is an opportunity, a test given to man to make a choice.


    It is necessary for man not to be forced while making a choice if the test is to be a real test and if he is to be accounted for what he did.
    Prophets were sent in each era to renew this divine message; they explained the truths that were forgotten in the course of time and that were veiled in a way that the minds would understand. However, they did not force people. No prophet forced people to believe when they conveyed the divine message. In a way, the miracles that astonished the minds were not completely silencing and forcing people to believe. For instance, when the rod of Moses swallowed the illusory ropes of the magicians, they said,
    "We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses" and believed in Allah; however, the Pharaoh said, "Surely this must be your leader, who has taught you magic" (Ta-Ha, 71) and continued to disbelieve. Similarly, when the Prophet (pbuh) split the moon into two when he pointed at it with his index finger upon the demand of the Makkan polytheists, they continued to resist by saying, "Muhammad started to influence the sky with his magic."
    Thus, the religion is a test. In this test, a door is opened for the mind but the will of man is not removed. Then, it is contrary to this principle for the Quran to mention the technology human beings will invent and the events they will see in the future clearly enough for everybody to understand. In that case, nobody will be able to reject it; they will have to accept it.
    3- From the point of view of gradual progress: As it is known, the law of gradualism is in question for man. This law made it possible for man to discover and invent various technologies and tools gradually when they were necessary and when man worked hard. If it had been a divine rule to mention science clearly in the heavenly books, it would have been contrary to the principle of gradual progress. Everything would have been given readily; so, man would not have had to work; there would have been communities of people at the same level everywhere since all people would have received the same message. It is contrary to the principle of gradualism, which is in question for man.


    4- From the point of view of the honor of humanity:God Almighty allowed a great share of honor and pride to humanity by not mentioning science clearly in the Quran. It is a great honor for man, who is known as “the vicegerent on the earth” (dominant over the other living beings on the earth) and as “honorable”, to attain science and inventions by developing his ability through his personal efforts. Is there a human being that does not take pride in great discoverers and inventors that discovered America, that invented the alarm clock, Piri Reis, who drew the first world map, Ibn an-Nafs, who discovered the blood circulatory system, Edison, who discovered electricity, no matter what their nationalities are?
    This honor is one of the millions of grants of God Almighty to humanity. The share of human beings in discoveries and inventions is present though very little; and it is a means of pride. If those discoveries and inventions had been mentioned in the Quran, we would have been deprived of that honor.
    5- From the point of view of the capacity of the people that the Quran addresses:The Quran takes into consideration the understanding level of the majority of the people. In each era, more than three fourths of the people are common people. Even today, some scientific issues can be understood by experts of that branch of science only; the rest cannot understand it. When you speak in a way that the majority of the people understand you, it is clear that the ones at higher levels will understand you more easily.
    Besides, if we consider that the Quran does not address only one single age but all ages until the Doomsday, we will understand the importance of the issue better.


    If things that do not comply with the daily observations of people, their individual experiences and general information had been mentioned openly, it would have caused two important drawbacks:
    1- It would have driven people who did not believe fully and who had hesitations away from the religion. Those who opposed the religion would have used it to increase their mockery. For instance, if the Quran had mentioned microbes and stated that there were millions of small living beings in one glass of water that we drink, that information would have confused believers who lived before the invention of the microscope and caused them to have superstitions; it would have led the unbelievers to total rejection and mockery.
    2- It would have drawn the attraction of people to unnecessary and useless things. If the Prophet had informed people through the Quran and his personal knowledge that there would be televisions and that people would watch what happened in other parts of the world instantly in the rooms that they lived, or if he had said that there would be electricity and that a whole city would be transformed to brightness from darkness by pushing a button, people would have been engaged in unnecessary discussions and talks among them and would have forgotten about their main duties. However, it is not the purpose of the religion. The real purpose of the religion is to arrange the duties of people toward Allah and their relationships with other people, and to teach them the ways of material and spiritual progress.
    No matter from which point of view you deal with it, the mind does not regard it appropriate for science and technology to be mentioned clearly in the Quran.
    Due to many wisdoms and reasons the most important ones of which we have mentioned above, sciences are not mentioned openly in the Quran; however, it is observed that they are implied or indicated in various ways. We will try to explain the issue by giving some examples.


    A – Information related to cosmos:The Quran often gives information about the universe. The creation, order, harmony of the universe, the night and the day following each other, the rain, clouds, plants, trees and animals are mentioned. The information about them represents the laws regarding things so truthfully that the science that developed in every field only confirmed it; science never stated anything opposite to it.
    For instance, in many verses of the Quran, it is repeatedly stated that plants were created in pairs (twos) (ar-Rahman 52, ar-Ra'd 3, Taha 131); in a verse, it is stated that things that we do not know were also created in pairs (Yasin 36); in another verse, attention is drawn to the fact that everything was created in pairs (adh-Dhariyat 49). Thus, it informs us about the existence of pairs from good-bad, ugly-beautiful, hot-cold, night-day, belief-unbelief, to positive and negative particles that constitute the structure of atom and the two opposite poles of the electricity. This information may seem simple for today but it is a miracle for the era 14 centuries ago.
    The verse of nur (light) is an interesting example that we need to mention here. It can be said that it indicates electricity, one of the most important discoveries of humanity: "Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the Glass as it were a brilliant star: lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West, whose Oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things." (an-Nur, 35).
    We understand that the simile, "as it were a brilliant star" indicates light bulb, "whose Oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it" indicates electricity and we also understand from the simile, "a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West" that the oil mentioned in the verse is not the oil produced from plants that grow based on the climate.
    The loftiness and profundity in the style of the verse and especially the similes are appropriate for deducing other meanings.
    B – Historical Events:The Quran sheds light on the future by describing some events in the past and points to some technology that humanity can obtain through science. Some of those events are miracles granted to prophets. Some of them are not regarded as miracles. Let us give a few examples:
    1- In the chapter of al-Fil, it is stated that the Ethiopian army, whose aim was to demolish the Kaaba, was defeated by stones of baked clay called “sijjil”. It is indicated there that particles that are small enough for a bird to carry can be used to defeat an army if they are thrown down from the air. Various weapons thrown down from airplanes, cannon balls and missile bullets that are exploded at a certain height applied this principle.


    2- In the Battle of Badr, a miracle granted to the Prophet (pbuh) informs us about something further than the one mentioned above. As it is explained in the books of tafsir and siyar (life of the Prophet), a handful of soil and sand that the Prophet picked up from the ground and threw at the enemies hit the eyes of the each enemy and caused their defeat. The verse narrates the event as follows: "It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust) it was not thy act, but Allah's" (al-Anfal, 17).
    It is a highly advanced technology for a bullet to follow the target and to catch it today. However, it is limited with big targets in the air. The verse indicates that it is possible to develop bullets that can find and catch small targets like human beings and that they can even be thrown by hand. Neutron bomb can be an example of it.


    C - Miracles:The miracles mentioned in the Quran indicate some technology that human beings can attain. The miracle of Miraj (Ascension) is one of them. The Prophet (pbuh) ascended to the sky with his spirit and body through the miracle of Miraj (al-Isra 1; an-Najm 7-18). According to the complementary explanations that were reported together with hadiths, the descent to the sky was made by a vehicle resembling a horse and travelling very fast called Buraq. The description about the speed of Buraq is very remarkable. It is stated in the hadith that Buraq steps its front foot on the ultimate point that its eye reaches.
    That miracle indicates that the way to the sky is open to human beings along with drawing attention to the magnitude of the speed to be reached in the vast space.
    The miracle related to the rod of Hazrat Musa (Moses) is related to today. One of the miracles of the rod that does wonderful things is the gushing forth of water out of the ground when Moses hits the ground with it. The water comes out from 12 springs (al-Baqara 60). Today, extracting water through deep artesian wells even in deserts has become something ordinary. Besides, not only water but also petrol and natural gas gush forth out of the ground. Since 12 springs are mentioned in the verse, it is possible to make other bounties gush forth in the future.


    As a matter of fact, the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) states the following in a hadith: "The door of sustenance is open from the highest point of the sky to the depths of the ground. Allah gives sustenance to all of His slaves based on their efforts."
    A miracle that is granted to Hazrat Ibrahim (Abraham) informs us about fireproof materials. As it is known, Hazrat Ibrahim, who did not give in to the community that worshipped idols, broke the idols that his community worshipped into pieces. He was given the punishment of being thrown into the fire due to his act. When Hazrat Ibrahim was thrown into the fire, he took refuge in Allah. God Almighty gave the fire this order: "O Fire! Be thou cool, and (a means of)) safety for Abraham." (al-Anbiya, 69) The fire did not burn Hazrat Ibrahim.
    This miracle informs us about the existence of a waterproof material. As a matter of fact, human beings discovered amianthus; then, they developed it and produced materials that protect spaceships from being burned due to entering atmosphere very fast and getting hot very easily.

    In conclusion, we can say this: There are many verses about information and technology to be reached in the future in the Quran. Those verses were not sent down only to tell us about the miracles of the prophets or the stories of the prophets. There are some scientific truths in various verses of the Quran, from the verses that give information about the creation of man and the universe to the verses that encourage man to contemplate and draw lessons. Experts of each branch of science will be able to discover the ones related to their branches in the course of time.

    قذائف الحق! هاشم في حوار مع مسيحيين الجزء الأول
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSbdutvJD0


    قذائف الحق! هاشم في حوار مع مسيحيين الجزء الثاني
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lXhD2uCwco

    قذائف الحق! هاشم في حوار مع مسيحيين الجزء الثالث
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALrY1Pwr8Bk

    - - - Updated - - -

    Surah al-Rahman

    55:31
    Nous allons bientôt entreprendre votre jugement, ô vous les deux charges [hommes et djinns].
    Surah al-Rahman, Verses 33 - 55


    Surah al-Rahman - Verses 33-34

    يَا مَعْشَرَ الْجِنِّ وَالْإِنسِ إِنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ أن تَنفُذُوا مِنْ أقْطَارِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأرْضِ فَانفُذُوا لَآ تَنفُذُونَ إِلاّ بِسُلْطَانٍ
    فَبِأيِّ آلَآء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
    33. O assembly of jinn and men! If you have power to pass beyond1 the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass beyond [them]. But you shall never be able to pass them, except with extraordinary power.
    34. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?
    The Arabic word ma‘shar is cognate with ‘ashr ("ten") and ‘ashira ("relatives"). The word is attested thrice in the Holy Qur’an in all the instances of which jinn precedes men.
    The reason lying behind such precedence may be the points that jinn exceed men in terms of quantity, jinn were created before men;
    ("And We created jinn before [men]"),
    and jinn are more prepared to soar in the heavens. Nevertheless, men precede jinn in some other instances. The Arabic word sultan denotes material strength and might leading some to conquer others. It is also applied to academic authority and solid arguments leading to academic and intellectual authority.
    It is worthy of note that the blessed Verse in question may also allude to the world, astronautics, transcending the atmosphere of the earth, and penetration into the heavens, since the depth of the earth, the farthest points in space, and celestial bodies may be conquered by jinn. The clause in astata‘tum in lieu of law astata‘tum connotes contingence.
    The clause illa bi-sulttan-in alludes to the fact that it is possible to penetrate into the heavens and the earth, particularly to the effect that in the Glorious Qur’an, the Arabic word sultan connotes academic authority.
    Taking into account, the contextual meanings of the preceding and the following blessed Verses, it may also make a reference to Resurrection and the impossibility of evading Divine Tribunal.
    Thus, the blessed Verse in question is saying:
    "O jinn and men! If you truly intend to evade Divine Recompense and Chastisement, make an attempt to transcend the boundaries of the heavens and the earth and thereby leave the bounds of His Omnipotence. However, you may never embark upon the same, unless through Divine Might and such Might is not at your disposal. You may never evade the Tribunal of Divine Justice. Wherever you go, you shall be Divine Realm. Wherever you stand, it shall be His Sovereignty.”
    Such weak creatures may never transcend the boundaries of Divine Sovereignty.
    Likewise, Imam ‘Ali (as) in the exhilarating invocation of Kumayl says:
    "No one may evade Your Omnipotence and Sovereignty."
    The blessed Verse 34 is again asking the rhetorical question:
    "Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?"
    Surah al-Rahman - Verses 35-36

    يُرْسَلُ عَلَيْكُمَا شُوَاظٌ مِّن نَّارٍ وَنُحَاسٌ فَلَآ تَنتَصِرَانِ
    فَبِأيِّ آلَآء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
    35. There shall be sent against you both, smokeless flames of fire and molten brass, and you shall not be able to defend yourselves.
    36. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?
    To further emphasize the inability of jinn and men to evade Divine Justice, the blessed Verse 35 is saying:
    "There shall be sent against you both, smokeless flames of fire and molten brass, and you shall not be able to defend yourselves."
    Then, they may not seek succor from anyone, since angels shall surround you on the one hand and burning flames of fire and dark and suffocating smoke surrounds the Plain of Judgment on the other. There shall remain no way out. The Arabic word shuwad designates great and awe-inspiring flames of fire.
    The Arabic word nuhas denotes the smoky and red flames of fire that turn copper in color. It is a source of surprise that Divine Tribunal is surrounded by Divine agents, suffocating smoke, and blazing fire and there shall remain no way but to attend the Tribunal and submit to the Verdict.
    The blessed Verse 36 further asks:
    "Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?"
    Surah al-Rahman - Verse 37-38

    فَإِذَا انشَقَّتِ السَّمَاء فَكَانَتْ وَرْدَةً كَالدِّهَانِ
    فَبِأيِّ آلَآء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
    37. Then when the heaven is rent asunder, and it becomes red like molten oil [you shall not bear the horrible incidents].
    38. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?
    Resuming the account of the preceding blessed Verses regarding some of the incidents that shall occur on the Day of Resurrection, the blessed Verse 37 treat of further depictions of the scenes of Resurrection and the manner of attending to records and Divine Recompense.
    Thus the blessed Verse 37 is saying that when the heaven is rent asunder and turns rosy like molten oil, horrible incidents shall occur such that no one may bear them. All the blessed Qur’anic Verses concerning Resurrection clearly reflect that the present order of the world shall be disturbed on that Day and very horrible incidents shall occur throughout the world.
    Stars, planets, the earth shall undergo alterations and incidents shall occur which may not be imagined by us. Instances of such incidents include tearing asunder of celestial bodies turning rosy like molten oil. The word warda designates flower and most of flowers are red in color. The word dihan is employed in the sense of molten oil which is often different in color.
    The blessed Verse 38 reiterates the rhetorical question:
    "Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?"
    Surah al-Rahman - Verses 39-40

    فَيَوْمَئِذٍ لَآ يُسْألُ عَن ذَنبِهِ إِنسٌ وَلَآ جَانٌّ
    فَبِأيِّ آلَآء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
    39. Therefore, on that Day no question shall be asked of men or jinn as to their sins.
    40. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?
    Following an account of the formative occurrences of Resurrection, the blessed Verse 39 treats of the state of sinners on that Day saying that jinn and men shall not be questioned concerning their sins, since everything shall be evident on the Day of Emergence (yawm al-buruz) and faces reflect everything.
    It may be falsely imagined that the blessed Verse in question is inconsistent with those emphasizing the questioning of servants on the Day of Resurrection, e.g.
    "But Stop them, indeed they are to be questioned,"2
    and
    “Therefore, by your Lord, We shall certainly question all of them for all they used to do,"3;
    however, the point is that the Day of Resurrection shall be a very long Day and man has to pass different paths and stations and spend some time at each place. According to a number of traditions, such stopping places shall be fifty in number. Questions shall not be asked at some of these places, since faces reveal inward secrets.
    At some of these places, mouths shall be sealed and bodily organs bear witness to deeds and words;
    ("This Day We shall seal up their mouths and their hands shall speak unto Us and their legs shall bear witness to what they used to earn,"4).
    There are still other places where questions shall be precisely asked5.
    Further, men shall come up pleading:
    ("The Day when everyone shall come up pleading for himself and everyone shall be paid in full for what he did and they shall not be dealt with unfairly,")6.
    In short, each and every scene has its own conditions and each scene shall be more horrible than another.
    The blessed Verse 40 asks the rhetorical question once more:
    "Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?"
    Surah al-Rahman - Verses 41-42

    يُعْرَفُ الْمُجْرِمُونَ بِسِيمَاهُمْ فَيُؤْخَذُ بِالنَّوَاصِي وَالْأقْدَامِ
    فَبِأيِّ آلَآء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
    41. The sinners shall be known by their marks and they will be seized by their forelocks and their feet [and shall be cast into Hell].
    42. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?
    Those who committed all kinds of sins and disobeyed Divine Command by all their beings from their hair to their feet shall be seized on the Day of Resurrection by their hair and feet to be cast into Hellfire.
    The Arabic word sima is employed in the sense of:
    "mark."
    The Arabic word nawasi is the plural form of nasiya designating:
    "forelock."
    On that Day, questions shall not be asked since sinners shall be recognized by their marks and faces. Some shall have smiling and brilliant faces which reflect their faith and righteous good deeds and some other shall have dark, ugly, and sullen faces, reflecting their faithlessness and evil deeds.
    The blessed Verse further adds that then they shall be seized by their forelocks and their feet and they shall be cast into Hell. The scene is quite agonizing and awe-inspiring.
    The blessed Verse 42 is a warning against Resurrection and a Favor bestowed upon everyone:
    "Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?"
    Surah al-Rahman - Verses 43-45

    هَذِهِ جَهَنَّمُ الَّتِي يُكَذِّبُ بِهَا الْمُجْرِمُونَ
    يَطُوفُونَ بَيْنَهَا وَبَيْنَ حَمِيمٍ آنٍ
    فَبِأيِّ آلَآء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
    43. This is the Hell which the sinners denied.
    44. They shall move between Hellfire and the fierce boiling water.
    45. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?
    Denial of Paradise, Hell, and Resurrection lead man to join the people of Hell.
    The antecedent of the Arabic demonstrative pronoun hadhihi:
    ("this")
    in the blessed Verse 43 is the preceding blessed Verse. It is as if angels or guards of Hell say unto sinners that this is Hell against which Prophets warned you but you denied and belied it out of arrogance, vanity, enmity, and ignorance. The blessed Verse 44 further depicts Hell and its excruciating torments saying that sinners move between Hell and boiling water.
    The Arabic word hamim denotes:
    "boiling water"
    and the Arabic word an employed herein designates the utmost degree of heat. Thus, they burn and thirst and ask for water on the one hand and boiling water will given unto them or boiling water will be splashed upon them on the other and it will be an excruciating chastisement. The blessed Verse 45 is a serious and awakening warning and a Divine Favor:
    "Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?"
    Surah al-Rahman - Verses 46-47

    وَلِمَنْ خَافَ مَقَامَ رَبِّهِ جَنَّتَانِ
    فَبِأيِّ آلَآء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
    46. But for him who fears the standing before his Lord, there shall be two Gardens.
    47. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?
    Fearing standing before God Almighty prevents man from committing sins and will lead to Paradise, as it is reflected elsewhere in the Glorious Qur’an7:
    "But as for him who feared standing before his Lord and restrained himself from concupiscent desires, indeed, Paradise shall be his abode."8
    The blessed Verse 46 is also saying that for he who fears standing before his Lord, there shall be two Gardens in Paradise. Fearing standing before Lord means that one who knows God Almighty through His Greatness, Glory, and Lordship, such knowledge causes fear in him and there shall be two Gardens in Paradise for him.
    It may also mean the fear of Resurrection and its stations and standing before His Threshold for records of deeds and Divine Supervision and Constant Care for all mankind. It is worthy of note that fear is supposed to spring from knowing Divine Lordship.
    Imam Sadiq (as) said:
    "He who believes that God sees him and hears whatever he says, such belief restrains him from committing evil deeds. Such person fears standing before God Almighty and restrains himself from concupiscent desires.”9
    It is narrated that the Noble Prophet (S) said unto Imam ‘Ali (as):
    "Several things lead to deliverance one of which is fear of God inwardly and outwardly."10
    Fear of standing before God Almighty in this world shall lead to security from all fears in the Hereafter, as it is reflected in other Qur’anic Verses, e.g.
    "There is no doubt that indeed believers who love Allah no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve,"11.
    In short, fear of God Almighty leads to submission to the Truth and doing righteous good deeds. Thus, there is no other condition besides fear of God Almighty. For one who fears standing before his Lord, there shall be two Gardens in Paradise.
    The blessed Verse 47 repeats the rhetorical question:
    "Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both [jinn and men] deny?"

    What are Jinn ? - Dr. Zakir Naik - YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZB7YVe0Dd4

    Last edited by yasoooo; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:44 AM.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Sorry to hear about the cancer , I hope it’s gone and it never returnsScientists and ......!

    Are you saying the spine we have is the best god could do ,even though billions of people suffer from lower back pain , because it is the way it is ?

    I agree there are some people who are evil .

    But
    If a person is evil for watching someone starve to death , why isn’t god.
    He has watched billions starve, he could have helped them with a simple thought, yet he choose not to .... that is evil.
    You are still not getting it. This world we live in, is not meant to be a perfect habitat where everyone lives in harmony and without pain, agony, sufforing etc.
    This world is just a test. nothing more. we are here only temporarily. God tests us in this world with wealth, with poverty, with health and sickness, with pain, troubles, hunger, thirst, lies and truthfullness, with anything possible...so this everything is needed and are therefore present in this world. The Afterlife is perfect, no pain, no worries, no sickness, no hunger...no sufforing of any kind...if you are a believer of course.

    Yes he could save everyone from suffering in an instant...but that is the whole point of testing...that has nothing to do with evilness. billions of people die of starvation...in the afterlife you will be asked: "you were aware of billions of people have been starving to death...what have YOU done to prevent that?" So it is a test for the people who are starving how they cope with the situation...but it is at the same time your test what efforts you take against that.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post

    Do you think watching people starve to death is a good thing ?

    God sent the scriptures ?
    That hasn’t been much help to the millions that died before he sent them, the millions that will die since he sent them ... it’s not a great system he has going.
    The millions of people before the scripture have also received a scripture or at least instructions before this scripture. Islaam is not just 1400 years old. God was always there and always provided us with the correct scriptures.

    What exactly do you mean with "it’s not a great system he has going"? What system are you referring to?
    The purpose of this world...again...is not to have a great system where everybody abides by the given rules...It is to test ones free will. To give you instructions and rules and see if you live accordingly, if you obey the rules or not...and its a great system to test that.
    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post

    As for death , death is a natural part of life .
    I imagine being dead , was like how I was before I was born.
    I won’t know I’m dead , I will be aware of nothing

    I can imagine the fear death holds for people , so it’s not surprising they would create and cling to a comfort blanket.
    There are only two things we can be sure of “ death and taxes”

    Your belief that you will go to paradise , is it any less ( I hesitate to use the word ) silly , than believing you will be reincarnated, you will go to Valhalla , that you will go to the sky to be with your ancestors.

    Death is what makes life a precious and rare gift ....! If we live for eternity , then life is meaningless.
    yes, it is less "silly". Because, reincarnation has no place in Islaam. Quraan speaks about Heaven and Hell in the afterlife, not about reincarnation, valhalla, no sky with ancestors or whatever. The quraan is true. in a different thread I already reacted today why the Quraan is true, and why you cannot just ignore that.

    So yess, reincarnation is silly...heaven and hell not.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    You are still not getting it. This world we live in, is not meant to be a perfect habitat where everyone lives in harmony and without pain, agony, sufforing etc.
    This world is just a test. nothing more. we are here only temporarily. God tests us in this world with wealth, with poverty, with health and sickness, with pain, troubles, hunger, thirst, lies and truthfullness, with anything possible...so this everything is needed and are therefore present in this world. The Afterlife is perfect, no pain, no worries, no sickness, no hunger...no sufforing of any kind...if you are a believer of course.

    Yes he could save everyone from suffering in an instant...but that is the whole point of testing...that has nothing to do with evilness. billions of people die of starvation...in the afterlife you will be asked: "you were aware of billions of people have been starving to death...what have YOU done to prevent that?" So it is a test for the people who are starving how they cope with the situation...but it is at the same time your test what efforts you take against that.


    The millions of people before the scripture have also received a scripture or at least instructions before this scripture. Islaam is not just 1400 years old. God was always there and always provided us with the correct scriptures.

    What exactly do you mean with "it’s not a great system he has going"? What system are you referring to?
    The purpose of this world...again...is not to have a great system where everybody abides by the given rules...It is to test ones free will. To give you instructions and rules and see if you live accordingly, if you obey the rules or not...and its a great system to test that.

    yes, it is less "silly". Because, reincarnation has no place in Islaam. Quraan speaks about Heaven and Hell in the afterlife, not about reincarnation, valhalla, no sky with ancestors or whatever. The quraan is true. in a different thread I already reacted today why the Quraan is true, and why you cannot just ignore that.

    So yess, reincarnation is silly...heaven and hell not.
    So god is causing people to suffer needlessly
    That’s evil .

    Why would god need to test us , if he knows everything?
    What’s the point of the test , if he knows the result before it happens.

    Islam did not exist , 2000 years ago , 5000 years ago, or 10,000 years ago.

    The problem of evil, is one of the biggest problems religions face , that’s why your religion teaches you that “ this is a test”, it’s the only way they could explain “ why bad things happen to good people”

    It always amazes me how someone can think
    Reincarnation is silly
    But
    Going to heave is not

    What about the old American Indian belief that you go to the sky to be with your ancestors ?

    Life after death , this is born out of mans fear of death, fear of the unknown,

    I think
    When you die , you die , you get 80-90 years, if your lucky , then that’s it , you return to non- existence

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    So god is causing people to suffer needlessly
    That’s evil .

    Why would god need to test us , if he knows everything?
    What’s the point of the test , if he knows the result before it happens.
    Exactly, why would God test us if he is alknowing right?

    Except, this test is not for God to determine which one is good and which one is bad. It is a test for us.

    If we did not come to this world first, and God just created you and then threw you into hell...you would complain..."Why God did you just threw me into hell, what did I do wrong?"
    God will explain to you that He knows you better than you know yourself, but you would not accept that answer.
    By coming into this world first, you make yourself a witness of your own decisions and actions. that is what this test is about...not for God.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Islam did not exist , 2000 years ago , 5000 years ago, or 10,000 years ago.
    Yes it did...Adam as got the first revelations and taught them to his own children and grandchildren, then after generations the message got lost and people added changes and stuff and a new man-made religion was born...So God sent another Prophet to us to provide us with the right sciptures....every prophet came with the same purpose to earth sent by this one God, Solomon, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus, every single one of them were sent by the same God to guide us back to the truth, everytime, mankind lost the message, changed it and created a new man-made religion. So Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and all other religions are to some extent based on the truth, but still everyone of them is man-made religions. Only Islaam is the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    The problem of evil, is one of the biggest problems religions face , that’s why your religion teaches you that “ this is a test”, it’s the only way they could explain “ why bad things happen to good people”

    It always amazes me how someone can think
    Reincarnation is silly
    But
    Going to heave is not

    What about the old American Indian belief that you go to the sky to be with your ancestors ?

    Life after death , this is born out of mans fear of death, fear of the unknown,

    I think
    When you die , you die , you get 80-90 years, if your lucky , then that’s it , you return to non- existence
    I have already explained to you why reincarnation is silly and heaven not.
    about ancestors, Islaam teaches us that in the afterlife you can be with your ancestors if you desire...but not that those ancestors are kinda watching over the world how there great great grand children on Earth are doing or something.

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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    Exactly, why would God test us if he is alknowing right?

    Except, this test is not for God to determine which one is good and which one is bad. It is a test for us.

    If we did not come to this world first, and God just created you and then threw you into hell...you would complain..."Why God did you just threw me into hell, what did I do wrong?"
    God will explain to you that He knows you better than you know yourself, but you would not accept that answer.
    By coming into this world first, you make yourself a witness of your own decisions and actions. that is what this test is about...not for God.


    Yes it did...Adam as got the first revelations and taught them to his own children and grandchildren, then after generations the message got lost and people added changes and stuff and a new man-made religion was born...So God sent another Prophet to us to provide us with the right sciptures....every prophet came with the same purpose to earth sent by this one God, Solomon, Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus, every single one of them were sent by the same God to guide us back to the truth, everytime, mankind lost the message, changed it and created a new man-made religion. So Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and all other religions are to some extent based on the truth, but still everyone of them is man-made religions. Only Islaam is the truth.

    I have already explained to you why reincarnation is silly and heaven not.
    about ancestors, Islaam teaches us that in the afterlife you can be with your ancestors if you desire...but not that those ancestors are kinda watching over the world how there great great grand children on Earth are doing or something.
    The story of Adam is a mythological tale.
    It does not represent reality.
    Are there any other stories with talking animals you treat as factual ?

    If god knows the future , and he is infallible
    Then it does not matter what you do.

    If god knows the day you are born that you will end up in hell , .... then there is nothing you can do to change that.

    If you could , then god would have been wrong , therefore not a god .


    You did not explain how reincarnation is silly
    You just said “ because it’s not part of Islam “

    That’s not an explanation , it’s a baseless assertion.

    Islam is just your religious beliefs , no matter how strongly you believe.
    It’s just stuff you believe is true

  12. #149
    chalks75's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    I think I’ve heard enough.

    I’ve been talking with people of other faiths for years ,
    I came on here hoping to hear something different.

    The arguments are the exact same , the appeals to authority the same , the claims of revealed knowledge , the same.
    The way of thinking , the same
    The false confidence , the same.

    I thank you for taking the time to answer my questions , I appreciate it , hopefully I didn’t offend you or anyone reading .
    That was never my intention.

    I wasn’t convinced gods are real , I’m still not .

    I think gods are a concept we created , to try and explain the universe and our place in it,
    Gods exist in the minds of believers , like Santa exists in the minds of children.

    Good luck for the future
    All the best .

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  14. #150
    Junon's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    What's the matter? Getting bored of preaching? Poor you! Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    Do tell your clones that infect this forum from time to time not to bother.

    After all Internet atheists are predictable, you've met one you've met them all.

  15. #151
    Ümit's Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    The story of Adam is a mythological tale.
    It does not represent reality.
    No, it is history. it does represent reality
    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    Are there any other stories with talking animals you treat as factual ?
    Yes, prophet Solomon as If I am correct could speak to animals.
    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    If god knows the future , and he is infallible
    Then it does not matter what you do.

    If god knows the day you are born that you will end up in hell , .... then there is nothing you can do to change that.

    If you could , then god would have been wrong , therefore not a god .
    That are two things you are mixing up with each other.
    God created us all with free will. we decide ourselves which way we choose. The fact that God already knows our destiny does not change our responsibility to choose for the good over evil.

    an example:

    Person X and Y are struggling with a complicated task and they cannot do that without any extern help.
    Person X sees two individuals sitting nearby, one in red and one in green and suggests to ask them for help.
    Person Y looks at them and says "the one in green will help us but the one in red wont"
    Person x "how do you know?"
    Person Y "just try it and you will see"
    Person X askes them both and indeed the one in green helps them but the one in red rejects.

    Now, the both individuals both have totally acted on their own decicions to help or not.
    and the fact that person Y knew them and therefore could tell before hand which one of them would offer any help did not influence them in their decision making.

    So the one in red has no right to say "I did not help because person Y already knew I wasn'T going to help"

    That only sounds silly.

    similar with God. He knows what decisions we will make...but we are the one who are responsible for those decisions. we need that in order to have free will.
    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post

    You did not explain how reincarnation is silly
    You just said “ because it’s not part of Islam “

    That’s not an explanation , it’s a baseless assertion.

    Islam is just your religious beliefs , no matter how strongly you believe.
    It’s just stuff you believe is true
    It is not a part of Islaam, therefore man-made.
    It is not a baseless assertion because I gave you enough arguments why we believe in Islaam, and why the Quraan represents the truth.

  16. #152
    M.I.A.'s Avatar
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    Re: Scientists and ......!

    Quote Originally Posted by chalks75 View Post
    I am a secular humanist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism

    Morality is different all around the globe , somethings we agree on , done we don’t.
    I think the important thing is to examine what you believe to be moral , and not just blindly follow , we must always be vigilant about what we are being told , and who is telling us, and why.

    ***********************

    Thoughts are just thoughts , not particularly good or bad , it’s only when you act upon them does it become a moral issue.

    In saying that , obsessively thinking positive or negative thoughts can have an impact on your mental health.
    ..
    ..

    Thoughts are just thoughts , not particularly good or bad , it’s only when you act upon them does it become a moral issue.
    Is that another facet of free will?

    Have you watched The Boys yet? It's a netflix original (amazon prime original, sorry).. pretty good, although cliched in its attempt to avoid being contrived and cliched.. worth a watch.

    I'm pretty much out of continuing this circular train of thought.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:43 PM.


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