Sallams. Is it halal to or ok to celebrate sons birthday?

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

Yea, we've already established that. Which is why I'm saying as Muslims, it is not required nor necessary to celebrate birthdays. We are not kuffar. If they place importance on birthdays, that's their business.

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It seems you dont recognize that people celebrate all sorts of days in all sorts of cultures. The brothers asking can he celebrate his sons birthday - the obvious answer would be yes unless your a salafi and think that any celebration outside of eids is a blameworthy bida.

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

That makes no sense. Birthday celebrations come from polytheistic traditions. To continue a tradition based from polytheism is imitating kuffar. You are literally preserving the traditions of another religion instead of focusing on your own. Is it ok to imitate the kufaar in that respect? It isn't. If this was practiced by Pagans and Islam came about at that time, do you think it is a practice that would have been allowed to continue?? Absolutely not. So if it would not have been allowed then, why would it be ok now?

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No they are not the prophet fasted on the day he was born - The Quran talks about the day Jesus pbuh was born as it does about John pbuh. Point being there is nothing intrinsically bad about celebrating the day your born. This is a fiqh issue and not a creed based issue - something people get confused over all the time. the days of the week in English and the months are based on roman mythology that nobody believes in. The same could be said about plenty of Arab customs that just carried over from the pagan days - this also includes Turkish and Persian culture as it does with African, European and sub continent.

Of course Birthdays are not religious thing anymore anyway its a cultural thing and as long as nothing haram is happening I'm not sure how one can be against it.

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Originally Posted by Zafran

It seems you dont recognize that people celebrate all sorts of days in all sorts of cultures. The brothers asking can he celebrate his sons birthday - the obvious answer would be yes unless your a salafi and think that any celebration outside of eids is a blameworthy bida.

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We aren't talking about other celebrations. This is strictly about birthdays. Birthday celebrating could only be considered bidaa in the way you present it, as something which is "necessary in the deen" when it very clearly is not and never was.

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Originally Posted by Zafran

No they are not the prophet fasted on the day he was born - The Quran talks about the day Jesus pbuh was born as it does about John pbuh. Point being there is nothing intrinsically bad about celebrating the day your born. This is a fiqh issue and not a creed based issue - something people get confused over all the time. the days of the week in English and the months are based on roman mythology that nobody believes in. The same could be said about plenty of Arab customs that just carried over from the pagan days - this also includes Turkish and Persian culture as it does with African, European and sub continent.

Of course Birthdays are not religious thing anymore anyway its a cultural thing and as long as nothing haram is happening I'm not sure how one can be against it.

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Which day was the prophet Isa born? His birth was mentioned because it was a special birth from a virgin, not because birthdays should be celebrated. About customs originating from paganism, I'm not really sure what you're referring to here. And even if it is still practiced and it is wrongful practice it shouldn't be continued.

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

We aren't talking about other celebrations. This is strictly about birthdays. Birthday celebrating could only be considered bidaa in the way you present it, as something which is "necessary in the deen" when it very clearly is not and never was.

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where did one say its "neccessary in the deen" the person asked if he could celebrate his sons birthday and the answer should be yes.

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

Which day was the prophet Isa born? His birth was mentioned because it was a special birth from a virgin, not because birthdays should be celebrated. About customs originating from paganism, I'm not really sure what you're referring to here. And even if it is still practiced and it is wrongful practice it shouldn't be continued.

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originating from paganism is a mute point as its clear that the prophet fasted the day he was born. If your going full on genetic fallacy then you might as well not name the days of the week or the names of the months as they are based on Roman mythology. Or logic for that matter.

The bottom line is that the guy asked if he could celebrate his kids first birthday - This shouldn't even be seen as a deen Issue.

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Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) has been reported as saying:

He who copies any people is one of them

[Sunan Abi Daawud]

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Mufti Taqi Uthmani (D.B) in Taqreer Tirimizi (p.331 v.2) has written that there are two types of imitation:

One does something with the intention of imitating the disbelievers, meaning one does so because he wants to be like one of them.

One does something without the intention of imitating them, but his actions are similar to theirs. This is however not unlawful but Makruh Tanzihi

http://daruliftabirmingham.co.uk/birthdays/

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It is pretty evident that you should not celebrate your son's birthdays. You will always have people confuse you. But since they have confused you and now it has become a gray matter in your mind, I urge you to heed the following.


An-Nu’man bin Bashir narrated, I heard Allah‘s Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) saying, (Nu'man pointed with his two fingers to his ears) ‘Both lawful (Halal) and unlawful things (Haram) are evident but in between them there are doubtful things·and most people have no knowledge about them.

So he, who saves himself from these doubtful things, saves his religion and his honor (i.e. keeps them blameless). And he who indulges in these doubtful things is like a shepherd who pastures (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is what He declared unlawful (Haram). Beware In the body there is a piece of flesh if it becomes sound and healthy, the whole body becomes sound and healthy but if it gets spoilt, the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.”

[Sahiih al-Bukhaari and Sahiih Muslim]


We live in times when clear matters are even made into doubtful ones. It is clear that you should not celebrate his birthday. There is no doubt about it.

But since we have people who have created a doubt in your mind, you are now left with acting on the following hadiith.


Save your Diin. Life is short. No one knows when it will be over. Save your Diin.

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Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez

It is pretty evident that you should not celebrate your son's birthdays. You will always have people confuse you. But since they have confused you and now it has become a gray matter in your mind, I urge you to heed the following.


An-Nu’man bin Bashir narrated, I heard Allah‘s Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) saying, (Nu'man pointed with his two fingers to his ears) ‘Both lawful (Halal) and unlawful things (Haram) are evident but in between them there are doubtful things·and most people have no knowledge about them.

So he, who saves himself from these doubtful things, saves his religion and his honor (i.e. keeps them blameless). And he who indulges in these doubtful things is like a shepherd who pastures (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is what He declared unlawful (Haram). Beware In the body there is a piece of flesh if it becomes sound and healthy, the whole body becomes sound and healthy but if it gets spoilt, the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.”

[Sahiih al-Bukhaari and Sahiih Muslim]


We live in times when clear matters are even made into doubtful ones. It is clear that you should not celebrate his birthday. There is no doubt about it.

But since we have people who have created a doubt in your mind, you are now left with acting on the following hadiith.


Save your Diin. Life is short. No one knows when it will be over. Save your Diin.

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Saudi Arabia National Day:


Each year, the unification of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is celebrated on the 23rd of September, hence the name “Unification of the Kingdom Day (Saudi Arabia National Day).” This is the country’s only public secular holiday and it takes place on the anniversary of the day Saudi Arabia was founded in the year 1932.''

What is the fatwa of islamq.info about this birthday celebration of Saudi Arabia...?

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Originally Posted by azc

Saudi Arabia National Day:


Each year, the unification of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is celebrated on the 23rd of September, hence the name “Unification of the Kingdom Day (Saudi Arabia National Day).” This is the country’s only public secular holiday and it takes place on the anniversary of the day Saudi Arabia was founded in the year 1932.''

What is the fatwa of islamq.info about this birthday celebration of Saudi Arabia...?

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Do I look like a Saudi?

Do I celebrate national day?

Do I care what Islamqa has to say about them?

No, I am not like you, a blind follower.

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Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez

Do I look like a Saudi?Do I celebrate national day?Do I care what Islamqa has to say about them?No, I am not like you, a blind follower.

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then what is the fatwa of al albani, uthaymin, ibn baaz and your other salafi scholars about this kind of birthday celebrations...?

This forum is confusing to me. Sometimes it is excessively liberal, sometimes it is excessively conservative.

In another thread by this guy, everyone was encouraging him to marry a woman who had a sinful sexual past.

So on the one hand, the people here were making excuses for such a nasty thing but on the other hand they have a massive problem with birthdays which is harmless and trivial.

Makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Stoic

He's going to b 1. My family never celebrated birthdays but wife family does. There would b a cake but no candles cuz I know the candle thing is not of our religion. But just gifts food and present. Also gonna have a banner saying my sons name 1st birthday. Perfectly fine?

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https://stepfeed.com/saudis-are-cele...0%2C2722006054

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Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth

This forum is confusing to me. Sometimes it is excessively liberal, sometimes it is excessively conservative.

In another thread by this guy, everyone was encouraging him to marry a woman who had a sinful sexual past.

So on the one hand, the people here were making excuses for such a nasty thing but on the other hand they have a massive problem with birthdays which is harmless and trivial.

Makes sense.

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That is horrible.

He has to repent from his sin. She has to repent from her sin. Only then can they marry according to the Hanaabilah.

But this is what you get when people speak without knowledge.

A massive contradiction.

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Originally Posted by Stoic

He's going to b 1. My family never celebrated birthdays but wife family does. There would b a cake but no candles cuz I know the candle thing is not of our religion. But just gifts food and present. Also gonna have a banner saying my sons name 1st birthday. Perfectly fine?

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Since some people love to derail threads based on their blind following and sectarian issues, I once I again urge to act on the words of the Messegner of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

Ignorant people have created doubts in your mind because their whims want them to celebrate birthdays. Probably because they do not have it in them to not do so when their first child is born.

You need to rise above letting your child becoming a trial for you. Please do not celebrate his birthday.

There will be many challenges ahead of you. Your child will grow up looking at you. He will look at you as his role model.




Do you not want a child who grows up pious so he can be a source of good deeds for you. A recurring charity?

that Abu Hurayrah said: “The good deeds that will reach a believer after his death are: knowledge which he learned and then spread; a righteous son whom he leaves behind; a copy of the Qur’aan that he leaves as a legacy; a mosque that he built; a house that he built for wayfarers; a canal that he dug; or charity that he gave during his lifetime when he was in good health. These deeds will reach him after his death.”

Ibn Maajah 242


Please follow the way of the Messenger of Allaah (Sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) as come down to us in the authentic hadith:


An-Nu’man bin Bashir narrated, I heard Allah‘s Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) saying, (Nu'man pointed with his two fingers to his ears) ‘Both lawful (Halal) and unlawful things (Haram) are evident but in between them there are doubtful things·and most people have no knowledge about them.

So he, who saves himself from these doubtful things, saves his religion and his honor (i.e. keeps them blameless). And he who indulges in these doubtful things is like a shepherd who pastures (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is what He declared unlawful (Haram). Beware In the body there is a piece of flesh if it becomes sound and healthy, the whole body becomes sound and healthy but if it gets spoilt, the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.”

[Sahiih al-Bukhaari and Sahiih Muslim]


And I promise you, you will see the following Verse every day of your life


Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do.

[Qur'aan 16:97]

There is no concept of birthday in Islam but some sects and people have double standard regarding this matter. Scholars who declare even eid mildun nabi as bidah go on mute mode when their own government or people celebrate birthday of their country and royal family. This double standard is unislamic.

I'm against blind following of scholars as it makes you fanatic worshipper of theirs.

All scholars are fallible. If they are wrong, say they are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Zafran

originating from paganism is a mute point as its clear that the prophet fasted the day he was born. If your going full on genetic fallacy then you might as well not name the days of the week or the names of the months as they are based on Roman mythology. Or logic for that matter.

The bottom line is that the guy asked if he could celebrate his kids first birthday - This shouldn't even be seen as a deen Issue.

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The prophet pbuh fasted on Mondays, not specifically on his birthday as a yearly thing like people these days are doing. Secondly, he FASTED. He didn't celebrate it. And the question is WHY did he do that anyway?

In regards to the calendar, we should be using the Hijri calendar as Muslims. As for the days of the week, a majority, if not all, of Muslim countries do not call them by those names anyway, so I don't really see much significance to your argument. Anyways, they are not celebrated days nor are they worshipped days, just names to reference time. This topic is going on a tangent.

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Originally Posted by azc

Saudi Arabia National Day:


Each year, the unification of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is celebrated on the 23rd of September, hence the name “Unification of the Kingdom Day (Saudi Arabia National Day).” This is the country’s only public secular holiday and it takes place on the anniversary of the day Saudi Arabia was founded in the year 1932.''

What is the fatwa of islamq.info about this birthday celebration of Saudi Arabia...?

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Originally Posted by azc

https://stepfeed.com/saudis-are-cele...0%2C2722006054

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Please tell me what relevance you are bringing to this topic?? Again you mention things that are not at all helpful, and this isn't the first time.

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

The prophet pbuh fasted on Mondays, not specifically on his birthday as a yearly thing like people these days are doing. Secondly, he FASTED. He didn't celebrate it. And the question is WHY did he do that anyway?

In regards to the calendar, we should be using the Hijri calendar as Muslims. As for the days of the week, a majority, if not all, of Muslim countries do not call them by those names anyway, so I don't really see much significance to your argument. Anyways, they are not celebrated days nor are they worshipped days, just names to reference time. This topic is going on a tangent.

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It not going on tangent its going to the crux of the argument - you seem to think anything that has "pagan rootes" it must be bad but you have no problem with using all sorts of things from phrases, to sayings and even do customs/logics that are part of your aesthetic identity - the same is with celebrating birthdays, bonfire night, July 4th, new years on national holidays. To tell Muslims not to do this that come from all sorts of backgrounds because of some genetic fallacy then there is a clear problem here telling the brother who is a new Muslim that celebrating birthday is bad when it has no bearing on religion anyway.

Another thing to know is that not all Muslims come from "Muslim countries" a lot of us live in non Muslim countries because that is who we are and that is where a lot Muslims live - the world doesn't revolve around one culture or identity - this forum in English is a great example. Next you will be telling the brother to only use the Hijra calendar even though it would be unpractical and wouldn't be able to communicate with most people that live around him.

Birthdays are celebrated all over the world including most Muslim countries.

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

Please tell me what relevance you are bringing to this topic?? Again you mention things that are not at all helpful, and this isn't the first time.

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because its the saudis scholars that were anti birthday celebrations - The IslamQA is a great example of that. Of course a lot of them are under a purge. May God protect them with that.

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Originally Posted by Zafran

It not going on tangent its going to the crux of the argument - you seem to think anything that has "pagan rootes" it must be bad but you have no problem with using all sorts of things from phrases, to sayings and even do customs/logics that are part of your aesthetic identity - the same is with celebrating birthdays, bonfire night, July 4th, new years on national holidays. To tell Muslims not to do this that come from all sorts of backgrounds because of some genetic fallacy then there is a clear problem here telling the brother who is a new Muslim that celebrating birthday is bad when it has no bearing on religion anyway.

Another thing to know is that not all Muslims come from "Muslim countries" a lot of us live in non Muslim countries because that is who we are and that is where a lot Muslims live - the world doesn't revolve around one culture or identity - this forum in English is a great example. Next you will be telling the brother to only use the Hijra calendar even though it would be unpractical and wouldn't be able to communicate with most people that live around him.

Birthdays are celebrated all over the world including most Muslim countries.

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Again, just because it is celebrated DOES NOT make it correct. And how are you going to make assumptions about me when you don't know me? I haven't said that it's ok to celebrate other holidays so I don't know where you got that assumption from :/ I'm not inconsistent with what I believe, just like you are not inconsistent with what you believe. If you believe it's ok to celebrate birthdays then you probably think it's ok to celebrate other holidays. I personally do not believe that. You still haven't directly mentioned which pagan customs are still practiced. Again using the hijra calendar has nothing to do with this topic. You are going on a tangent.

If you're Americanized and can't let it go, that's on you bro. It's obvious we will not see eye to eye on this topic. You're too attached to culture. I am not.

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Originally Posted by Zafran

because its the saudis scholars that were anti birthday celebrations - The IslamQA is a great example of that. Of course a lot of them are under a purge. May God protect them with that.

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There are many scholars who are not saudi who are against birthdays, also his posts weren't mentioning birthdays they were mentioning national celebrations. Maybe you should just let him answer for himself?

Another thing, apart from all that has already been said, is that there are generally four really important commodities or resources:

People,
Time,
Wealth,
Health

We don't celebrate loss of people, we don't celebrate loss of wealth, we don't celebrate loss of health, so why do we celebrate loss of time?

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

Again, just because it is celebrated DOES NOT make it correct.

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what basis? you entire argument hinges on the idea that "birthdays are foolish" and it has "pagan roots" - Both are not good enough reasons on an Islamic forum to ban people from Birthday celebrations which you have been pushing for in all your posts.

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

I'm not inconsistent with what I believe, just like you are not inconsistent with what you believe. If you believe it's ok to celebrate birthdays then you probably think it's ok to celebrate other holidays. I personally do not believe that. You still haven't directly mentioned which pagan customs are still practiced. Again using the hijra calendar has nothing to do with this topic. You are going on a tangent.

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of course you are - you first stated that calling something "foolish" was Good - which it isn't (not Islamic wise anyway) then you went on to say it has Pagan roots - which isn't a good reason has its a genetic fallacy. So I'm still confused why your trying to convince the brother on not celebrating his one year old kids birthday?

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

If you're Americanized and can't let it go, that's on you bro. It's obvious we will not see eye to eye on this topic. You're too attached to culture. I am not.

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Or that your culturally disposed on not celebrating birthdays - thats on you - dont need it ram on other people be they "american" Indonesian or arab. Besides Im not american but Im not sure how american Muslims will feel of belittling there culture - this is an Islamic forum at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

mimic Pagan traditions

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

You just need to look at the history of something to know whether it is incorrect or not

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

If it was haram at one point, it is probably haram today.

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all these quotes have no basis in Islam - they are either your own cultural reasoning, genetic fallacies - or trying to find reasons to make something haram that you dont feel disposed to.

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

IF something in a culture is haram, against Islam, historically dubious, harmful, it should not continued to be practiced even if it were practiced for thousands of years prior

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Trying to make it Islamic here. too many inconsistencies.

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Originally Posted by Zafran

Or that your culturally disposed on not celebrating birthdays - thats on you - dont need it ram on other people be they "american" Indonesian or arab. Besides Im not american but Im not sure how american Muslims will feel of belittling there culture - this is an Islamic forum at the end of the day.

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Incorrect. Has nothing to do with my culture. There are many american muslims who don't celebrate their birthdays, and I don't really practice my beliefs based on someone else's "feelings."

Americanized,
westernized
colonized
white washed...
whatever.
All the same.

As I said, we do not see eye to eye. Stay confused :)

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

Incorrect. Has nothing to do with my culture. There are many american muslims who don't celebrate their birthdays, and I don't really practice my beliefs based on someone else's "feelings."

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Im sure you do

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

Americanized,
westernized
colonized
white washed...
whatever.
All the same.

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Birthdays?

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Originally Posted by *charisma*

As I said, we do not see eye to eye. Stay confused

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Indeed seems like the whole "pagan roots and "foolish" was mere sentiment after all.

@*charisma* :

Birthday of a commonman or a prince or Riyadh festival or Saudi national festival etc all these celebrations have no basis in Islam. If birthday of a commonman is bidah then all such celebrations are also bidah and scholars should speak impartially against all these unislamic traditions but sometimes I see double standard of scholars which is questionable.

And in truth if we see these issues from Islamic point of view, these celebrations can't be proven as bidah as according to hadith ''Man ahdasa fi deenina haza ma laisa MINhu fahuwa radd'' (Bukhari) it means any new practice IN religion is wrong whereas nobody celebrate birthday of a child as religious deed and nobody thinks that he will be rewarded for it.
However, it's waste of money which is clearly prohibited in Islam and so it can be called as makrooh tahreemi otherwise birthday is neither haram nor bidah per se.

I tried to see the fatwa of islamqa.info regarding birthday of prince and Saudi national festival but there is no fatwa.