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Thread: If & Buts

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    50cent's Avatar
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    If & Buts

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    I hear a lot of people saying 'what if' or 'but if this and that happened'... I want to know if it's a sin saying IF so and so happened or BUT this and that happened then the outcome of the situation will be different? Isit a sin?
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    Re: If & Buts

    Quote Originally Posted by 50cent View Post
    I hear a lot of people saying 'what if' or 'but if this and that happened'... I want to know if it's a sin saying IF so and so happened or BUT this and that happened then the outcome of the situation will be different? Isit a sin?
    Believing in Pre-destination and Al-Qadar is one of the basic doctrine which a Muslim should believe and this leaves no room for ifs and buts. We know nothing happens without the Will of Allah. PERIOD
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    Re: If & Buts

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Believing in Pre-destination and Al-Qadar is one of the basic doctrine which a Muslim should believe and this leaves no room for ifs and buts. We know nothing happens without the Will of Allah. PERIOD
    Of course there is plenty room for ifs and buts. imagining things in your head like "if this happened, then..." is not forbidden. It is not like we suddenly don't believe in Al-Qadar or pre-destination.

    It is just a scenario in your head "if this happened, that would be great" or "if this happened, I would do that". We all do that once in a while. So it can also be a future thing and it is prepairing you for a possible choice you have to make in the future.

    Nothing wrong with that.

    Don't make Halaal things Haraam. (which is also Haraam by the way)

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    Re: If & Buts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    Of course there is plenty room for ifs and buts. imagining things in your head like "if this happened, then..." is not forbidden. It is not like we suddenly don't believe in Al-Qadar or pre-destination.

    It is just a scenario in your head "if this happened, that would be great" or "if this happened, I would do that". We all do that once in a while. So it can also be a future thing and it is prepairing you for a possible choice you have to make in the future.

    Nothing wrong with that.

    Don't make Halaal things Haraam. (which is also Haraam by the way)
    We are talking about past things, things which has already happened. Like if Trump is elected as President, it would not worth discussing what if Hillary Clinton be the president? Or consider about 9/11 attack or killing in New Zealand mosque etc.
    As Muslims we should believe that whatever has happened for a reason and Allah know what is the best.

    Now you are bring in decision making and future planning into that context, which is a totally different thing.

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    Re: If & Buts

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    We are talking about past things, things which has already happened. Like if Trump is elected as President, it would not worth discussing what if Hillary Clinton be the president? Or consider about 9/11 attack or killing in New Zealand mosque etc.
    As Muslims we should believe that whatever has happened for a reason and Allah know what is the best.

    Now you are bring in decision making and future planning into that context, which is a totally different thing.
    do you know what totally different things are? the words "not worth discussing" and "forbidden". even in your example with Trumps election...it may be not worth discussing...but it certainly is not forbidden.
    nothing wrong with fantasizing about things.
    it is not that we revolt like "why God did you not make Hillary win the elections?"

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    Re: If & Buts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    do you know what totally different things are? the words "not worth discussing" and "forbidden". even in your example with Trumps election...it may be not worth discussing...but it certainly is not forbidden.
    nothing wrong with fantasizing about things.
    it is not that we revolt like "why God did you not make Hillary win the elections?"
    Asslam O Alaikum Brother,

    I initially decided not to reply because I did not want to get in any argument just to prove who is right. Later on I thought there are some important things which I probably should point out so it can benefit me and my other brothers and sisters on this forum.

    In general, when we sin there are three situations:

    1. We sin because we did not know it was a sin. I hope Allah will forgive this situation but ignorance is not an excuse one should continuously seek knowledge and whenever they learn something is sin that should try to avoid it.
    2. We sin knowing that it is a sin but we keep trying not to repeat that sin. Obviously it sign of a weak Iman. In this situation, Allah gave us the opportunity to at least repent and seek forgiveness. Inshallah one day, with the help of Allah a person can overcome his/her habit of committing that particular sin.
    3. We sin knowing that it is a sin and we don't care about it. This is dangerous for our faith. It makes one a weak believer.

    For example, in our work place we may have to shake hands with opposite gender at work. One may shake hand without knowing that it is a sin. One may shake hand knowing that it is a sin but he/she could not say no for whatever reason it may be. This is sign of weak Iman but at least he/she thought it was a sin and seek Allah's forgiveness and asked Allah to help Him overcome his/her weakness. One may shake hand knowing that it is a sin but his/her interpretation is that Islam is too old for our time and may be it is okay in our time and age to shake hand with opposite gender. You can tell yourself that where does this person stand as for as faith goes. He/she is like one standing on the edge of the steep mountain and could easily fall on the other side.

    Now, I mentioned this previously that for future planning one should analyze his/her situation looking at different available options. But when we talk about ifs and buts, we normally refer to something which has already happened and will not change. This is where I think we should stay away from any discussion which fall under the category of "What if" or "ifs and buts." Don't take me wrong,
    I probably use " if and buts" more than anyone else on this forum but I always know that it is something I should not be doing it. My understand of this is based on the following hadith:

    Abu Hurayrah (RA) reported that the Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said:

    “A strong believer is better and dearer to Allah than a weak one, and both are good. Adhere to that which is beneficial for you. Keep asking Allah for help and do not refrain from it. If you are afflicted in any way, do not say: ‘If I had taken this or that step, it would have resulted into such and such’ but say only: ‘Allah so determined and did as He willed.’ The word ‘if’ opens the gates of satanic thoughts.”
    [Sahih Muslim, Hadith # 2664]

    Commentary:

    In this Hadith, goodness is acknowledged in weak as well as strong because the real Faith is a common feature of both. The one who is stronger is, however, better with Allah for the reason that he is more active and energetic in the matter of noble deeds and performance of ritual prayers, obligatory as well as voluntary.
    This Hadith ordains that in case of trouble, one should exercise patience and show submission and obedience rather than saying ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ about it, because it provides Satan with a chance to mislead the sufferer.

    Allah knows the best!

    May Allah make us among those who are strong believers and save us form anything which open gates of Satanic thoughts. Ameen!
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:10 PM.

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    Re: If & Buts

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Asslam O Alaikum Brother,

    I initially decided not to reply because I did not want to get in any argument just to prove who is right. Later on I thought there are some important things which I probably should point out so it can benefit me and my other brothers and sisters on this forum.

    In general, when we sin there are three situations:

    1. We sin because we did not know it was a sin. I hope Allah will forgive this situation but ignorance is not an excuse one should continuously seek knowledge and whenever they learn something is sin that should try to avoid it.
    2. We sin knowing that it is a sin but we keep trying not to repeat that sin. Obviously it sign of a weak Iman. In this situation, Allah gave us the opportunity to at least repent and seek forgiveness. Inshallah one day, with the help of Allah a person can overcome his/her habit of committing that particular sin.
    3. We sin knowing that it is a sin and we don't care about it. This is dangerous for our faith. It makes one a weak believer.

    For example, in our work place we may have to shake hands with opposite gender at work. One may shake hand without knowing that it is a sin. One may shake hand knowing that it is a sin but he/she could not say no for whatever reason it may be. This is sign of weak Iman but at least he/she thought it was a sin and seek Allah's forgiveness and asked Allah to help Him overcome his/her weakness. One may shake hand knowing that it is a sin but his/her interpretation is that Islam is too old for our time and may be it is okay in our time and age to shake hand with opposite gender. You can tell yourself that where does this person stand as for as faith goes. He/she is like one standing on the edge of the steep mountain and could easily fall on the other side.

    Now, I mentioned this previously that for future planning one should analyze his/her situation looking at different available options. But when we talk about ifs and buts, we normally refer to something which has already happened and will not change. This is where I think we should stay away from any discussion which fall under the category of "What if" or "ifs and buts." Don't take me wrong,
    I probably use " if and buts" more than anyone else on this forum but I always know that it is something I should not be doing it. My understand of this is based on the following hadith:

    Abu Hurayrah (RA) reported that the Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said:



    Commentary:

    In this Hadith, goodness is acknowledged in weak as well as strong because the real Faith is a common feature of both. The one who is stronger is, however, better with Allah for the reason that he is more active and energetic in the matter of noble deeds and performance of ritual prayers, obligatory as well as voluntary.
    This Hadith ordains that in case of trouble, one should exercise patience and show submission and obedience rather than saying ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ about it, because it provides Satan with a chance to mislead the sufferer.

    Allah knows the best!

    May Allah make us among those who are strong believers and save us form anything which open gates of Satanic thoughts. Ameen!
    Good for you to decide to reply after all, because if you didn't, we wouldn't know the existence of this hadeeth.
    So thank you very much for replying. I really appreciate that.

    So, there is a hadeeth that says that the word "if" is dangerous because it can easily be followed with satanic thoughts.
    I understand and respect that.

    However, Everyone uses the "what if" question once in a while...because it is a natural and healty thing to do. We NEED to ask ourself these questions to evaluate our decisions and to learn from our mistakes. It is the way we learn.

    So yes, this hadeeth seems saheeh, and thank you for pointing that out ( I didn't know, and learned something today), But still, I think that this hadeeth points more in the direction of "accepting the choice being made as it is" and move on instead of getting stuck with thoughts in your head like "what if I took the other choice..." or something like that. It is a warning to prevent such thoughts and blaming oneself or the decisionmaker for making the false decision.

    I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

    If I am wrong, then please do not hesitate and let me know. I like it when someone points my faults out, because those are the moments I learn.

    There is no gain in being stubborn and not to admit mistakes.

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    Re: If & Buts

    Edit:

    Besides, I do not know Arabic, but I do realize that working with an english transation of a saheeh hadeeth can be dangerous, because one could translate it as good as possible, but the actual loads of words may still be slightly different.

    So the word "if" in Arabic may have a slightly different load than the "if" in English. I do not know...

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    Re: If & Buts

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Asslam O Alaikum Brother,

    I initially decided not to reply because I did not want to get in any argument just to prove who is right. Later on I thought there are some important things which I probably should point out so it can benefit me and my other brothers and sisters on this forum.

    In general, when we sin there are three situations:

    1. We sin because we did not know it was a sin. I hope Allah will forgive this situation but ignorance is not an excuse one should continuously seek knowledge and whenever they learn something is sin that should try to avoid it.
    2. We sin knowing that it is a sin but we keep trying not to repeat that sin. Obviously it sign of a weak Iman. In this situation, Allah gave us the opportunity to at least repent and seek forgiveness. Inshallah one day, with the help of Allah a person can overcome his/her habit of committing that particular sin.
    3. We sin knowing that it is a sin and we don't care about it. This is dangerous for our faith. It makes one a weak believer.

    For example, in our work place we may have to shake hands with opposite gender at work. One may shake hand without knowing that it is a sin. One may shake hand knowing that it is a sin but he/she could not say no for whatever reason it may be. This is sign of weak Iman but at least he/she thought it was a sin and seek Allah's forgiveness and asked Allah to help Him overcome his/her weakness. One may shake hand knowing that it is a sin but his/her interpretation is that Islam is too old for our time and may be it is okay in our time and age to shake hand with opposite gender. You can tell yourself that where does this person stand as for as faith goes. He/she is like one standing on the edge of the steep mountain and could easily fall on the other side.

    Now, I mentioned this previously that for future planning one should analyze his/her situation looking at different available options. But when we talk about ifs and buts, we normally refer to something which has already happened and will not change. This is where I think we should stay away from any discussion which fall under the category of "What if" or "ifs and buts." Don't take me wrong,
    I probably use " if and buts" more than anyone else on this forum but I always know that it is something I should not be doing it. My understand of this is based on the following hadith:

    Abu Hurayrah (RA) reported that the Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said:



    Commentary:

    In this Hadith, goodness is acknowledged in weak as well as strong because the real Faith is a common feature of both. The one who is stronger is, however, better with Allah for the reason that he is more active and energetic in the matter of noble deeds and performance of ritual prayers, obligatory as well as voluntary.
    This Hadith ordains that in case of trouble, one should exercise patience and show submission and obedience rather than saying ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ about it, because it provides Satan with a chance to mislead the sufferer.

    Allah knows the best!

    May Allah make us among those who are strong believers and save us form anything which open gates of Satanic thoughts. Ameen!
    Jzk brother thank you

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    Re: If & Buts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    Good for you to decide to reply after all, because if you didn't, we wouldn't know the existence of this hadeeth.
    So thank you very much for replying. I really appreciate that.

    So, there is a hadeeth that says that the word "if" is dangerous because it can easily be followed with satanic thoughts.
    I understand and respect that.

    However, Everyone uses the "what if" question once in a while...because it is a natural and healty thing to do. We NEED to ask ourself these questions to evaluate our decisions and to learn from our mistakes. It is the way we learn.

    So yes, this hadeeth seems saheeh, and thank you for pointing that out ( I didn't know, and learned something today), But still, I think that this hadeeth points more in the direction of "accepting the choice being made as it is" and move on instead of getting stuck with thoughts in your head like "what if I took the other choice..." or something like that. It is a warning to prevent such thoughts and blaming oneself or the decisionmaker for making the false decision.

    I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

    If I am wrong, then please do not hesitate and let me know. I like it when someone points my faults out, because those are the moments I learn.

    There is no gain in being stubborn and not to admit mistakes.
    I understand what you are saying and you probably understood the underlying message I want to convey. We as Muslims should know that anything that happens whether good or bad, does not happen without the Will of Allah. When something good happens then we should thanks Allah and know that it only happened because Allah willed so. Similarly, when a calamity happens we should accept it and know that it happened because there is some thing good in it for us or may be Allah wanted to give us warnings etc. Allah says in the Quran:

    No disaster strikes upon the earth or among yourselves except that it is in a register before We bring it into being - indeed that, for Allah, is easy -
    In order that you not despair over what has eluded you and not exult [in pride] over what He has given you. And Allah does not like everyone self-deluded and boastful - [Quran 57:22-23]

    So what we learn from this ayat is that Allah has already written with His knowledge that what will happen and ayat 23 also tells us the reason why calamities happen in our lives.

    Yes, it is natural and allowed to analyze what happened to learn for that incident and see what Allah wants to tell us. What is not allowed is use of ifs and buts to think that we could have avoided a calamity if we have done so and so. Allah knows best!


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