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    Cool Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

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    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    So far I have not found answers to my enquiry on several muslim forums, they tend to mislead or over judge focusing on sexual aspects.

    As a non muslim man, is it permissable for me to use tools, like tennis balls or sticks in order to perform a massage on a fully dressed muslim woman? Only showing hands and face.
    What if i wear dark sunglasses that would block most of my vision in order to not look at any specifics on the woman?
    what are the specific rulings on this and why according to islamic laws.
    This is with aim of shoulder/neck massage since this is where people tend to get tense and it is helpful for living beings and can be medical in many circumstances improving bloodflow to the head etc. It is done with no lust in mind.

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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    This would not be allowed. A massage can be given by anyone else (ie. a female friend, mother, siblings, etc) and particularly since there are many women who work in this field, there is an option to go to them, therefore a Muslim woman should seek those options before ever considering to go to a nonMahram male for a massage.
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    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    D e a t h

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    the hardest
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    A non mahram man (one who is not close relative) is not allowed to be in such close proximity to a woman, and touching woman's body with tools will still be touching a woman's body with something that creates a sensation within them, so for these two reasons it will not be allowed

    Now if it was for very essential medical reasons (such as healing a very painful neck or something) and there was no female or mahram to do it, then this may be an exception
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Quote Originally Posted by flapvaber View Post
    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    So far I have not found answers to my enquiry on several muslim forums, they tend to mislead or over judge focusing on sexual aspects.

    As a non muslim man, is it permissable for me to use tools, like tennis balls or sticks in order to perform a massage on a fully dressed muslim woman? Only showing hands and face.
    What if i wear dark sunglasses that would block most of my vision in order to not look at any specifics on the woman?
    what are the specific rulings on this and why according to islamic laws.
    This is with aim of shoulder/neck massage since this is where people tend to get tense and it is helpful for living beings and can be medical in many circumstances improving bloodflow to the head etc. It is done with no lust in mind.
    Before I answer the question I think there are few things which you need to know which has to do with ruling about how Muslims should dress and cover their bodies. Let me cover those so you can understand the background and then I will answer your question, my answer is not different from others but it will help to understand why we are all giving the similar answers.

    Covering the awrah (body parts which must be covered by males and females as ordained by the Shariah and also known as intimate parts of the body) is very important and a firm injunction given in Islam. While giving this instruction, the Prophet Muhammad PBUH is reported to have said:
    No man should look at the awrah of another man and no woman should look at the awrah of another woman (Muslim).
    Based on this injunction, Muslim men and women are required to cover their awrah, and at the same time, protect their gaze from the awrah of others (except those who are lawful for them).
    The awrah of a man is from his navel to his knees. Therefore, a man can look at the body of another man except the area from the navel to the knees.
    The awrah of a Muslim woman for another Muslim woman is just like that of a male. That is, from the navel to the knees. So when a need arises, it is permissible for a Muslim woman to look at the body of another Muslim woman except the area between the navel to the knees.
    With respect to a Muslim woman exposing her body to a non-Muslim woman, this is not the same as exposing it to a Muslim woman. The Muslim woman can only expose her face and palms in front of a non-Muslim woman. She will also have to cover her hair in front of her. This is the most correct opinion according to the over whelming majority of scholars. (Fiqh Al Islami Wa Adilatihi Vol. 4 pg. 2656 and vol 1 pg. 754).

    With this understanding of the awrah of the male and the female, the scholars have mentioned that those areas which are permissible to look at, then it will be permissible to touch provided that it is done without desires. Therefore, a male can go to another male for a massage or dry cupping, and expose the parts of the body which are not awrah to him, and allow him to touch his body for that purpose.

    In a similar manner, a female (Muslim) can go to another female (Muslim) for a massage or dry cupping and expose any area of her body besides the area between the navel to the knees, and allow her to touch those areas for that purpose.

    If she goes to a non-Muslim woman for a massage or dry cupping, then she will not be allowed to uncover any parts of her body, since the only parts she can expose to the non Muslim woman are the palms and her face.

    It must be understood that when a valid need arises for exposing the awrah, like in the case of serious medical reasons, surgery etc, then it will be permissible for the awrah to be exposed to the extent that is needed for the medical expert to attend to, since this is a dire necessity which involves the protection of a person’s health or the removal of that which is harmful. For this reason, the Shariah has allowed the exposing of the awrah. When such a need arises for a male, then he must visit a male doctor. He is not allowed to visit a female doctor, since he may have to expose his awrah and also be touched and handled by the female, and the Shariah does not allow this. However, if he has no choice except to visit a female doctor, because of the non-availability of a male doctor or he can only find a female specialist for his sickness, or he may be in the hospital and will be attended to by female nurses, then in these situations, on the basis of fulfilling a necessity, it would be allowed for him to uncover his awrah and be attended to by female doctors and nurses.

    The same is the case of a Muslim woman. When she wishes to seek medical care, she must visit a female doctor, preferably a Muslim, since she may have to expose her awrah and be touched and handled by the female doctor. If this is not possible, then she must visit a non-Muslim female doctor who can attend to her. In this case, she will be allowed to expose her awrah to the extent needed on the basis of necessity.
    However, if the situation arises where only a male doctor can attend to her since there is no qualified female doctor in that field, or she is in the hospital where male doctors or male nurses may attend to her, then she will be allowed to expose her awrah to the extent needed, based on necessity. However, a male blood relative or her husband should be with her when she visits a male doctor. (Al Mawsooah Al Fiqhiya Vol. 31 pg 56 Maktaba Uloom Al Islamiya Chaman Bahchistan).

    The above allowances are granted when there are sound valid reasons (acceptable in the Shariah) for exposing of one’s awrah. The ruling regarding the covering of one’s awrah is extremely important in the Shariah, however, when the need for curing serious medical complications arises, and one is compelled by necessity to treat an illness, then the Shariah grants allowances for these needs to be fulfilled.

    These allowances however, do not extend to getting a massage or doing dry cupping. On one hand, no serious health problem occurs which will compel a person to go for a massage, and on the other hand, a massage or a dry cupping does not cure any serious medical condition or sickness. It may help in pain relief, but it is not a definite cure for pain. It brings about some relaxation, but this is not really a medical problem. It may improve blood circulation, however, patients who suffer from poor blood circulation like heart patients etc., do not normally turn to massage or dry cupping as a cure. Instead, they will visit their heart doctors and use medication along with exercise to overcome their problem.
    Therefore, massage and dry cupping are not definite cures for medical conditions and so, they cannot bring about allowances for a person’s awrah to be exposed and for one to look and touch the awrah of another person, even if it is the same gender.

    I hope you find this answer helpful, if you have further question please feel free to ask.
    Peace and blessings be on you for asking such an important question.
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    xboxisdead's Avatar
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    There are no such thing as gender when it comes to Non-Muslim man and Non-Muslim woman. Since non-Muslim women are like non-Muslim men and non-Muslim men are like that of non-Muslim women. So for non-Muslim women are nothing more than non-Muslim men but with ability of making babies. Because of that it is not permissible for Muslim woman to be in the same room as non-Muslim woman alone without another person with her as there are risk of sexual intimacy between and there might be attraction between a Muslim woman with a non-Muslim woman. A Muslim should not touch a non-Muslim woman because it is the same as touching a non-Muslim man or a Muslim man. She have to apply full hijjab in front of a non-Muslim because it is the same as standing in front of a man. If a Muslim woman goes to malls and enter stores that sell female cloth and products and there non-Muslim clerk and non-Muslim women working there...these non-Muslim women are men and a Hijab have to be applied to them and in the same time must not touch her because that is a he and not a she. Nothing correct comes out of a mouth of a non-Muslim woman...don't seek advice from her when it comes to anything that effect your life or family life unless it is related with medical things, lawyer and/or services and products you can
    get from them.

    A non-Muslim woman should seek out jobs and educations and go out there toil and work like non-Muslim men and Muslim men and you can see majority of non-Muslim women are stronger than their men counterpart, better than their men counterpart and even more productive in running business then their men counter part but in return they are also the most masculine you can find them. They cut their hairs short, wear pants, some developing deep voice, they are literally men with ability to conceive and for that reason a Muslim woman is not allowed to be with a non-Muslim woman alone.

    At the same time a Muslim man should not be at the same room or be alone with a non-Muslim woman for they also maintain sexuality and beauty that attract men as they are some feminine men (non-Muslim women) and masculine men (non-Muslim women).

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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    This did not address my question at all. try rereading it.

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    flapvaber's Avatar
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    There are no such thing as gender when it comes to Non-Muslim man and Non-Muslim woman. Since non-Muslim women are like non-Muslim men and non-Muslim men are like that of non-Muslim women. So for non-Muslim women are nothing more than non-Muslim men but with ability of making babies. Because of that it is not permissible for Muslim woman to be in the same room as non-Muslim woman alone without another person with her as there are risk of sexual intimacy between and there might be attraction between a Muslim woman with a non-Muslim woman. A Muslim should not touch a non-Muslim woman because it is the same as touching a non-Muslim man or a Muslim man. She have to apply full hijjab in front of a non-Muslim because it is the same as standing in front of a man. If a Muslim woman goes to malls and enter stores that sell female cloth and products and there non-Muslim clerk and non-Muslim women working there...these non-Muslim women are men and a Hijab have to be applied to them and in the same time must not touch her because that is a he and not a she. Nothing correct comes out of a mouth of a non-Muslim woman...don't seek advice from her when it comes to anything that effect your life or family life unless it is related with medical things, lawyer and/or services and products you can
    get from them.

    A non-Muslim woman should seek out jobs and educations and go out there toil and work like non-Muslim men and Muslim men and you can see majority of non-Muslim women are stronger than their men counterpart, better than their men counterpart and even more productive in running business then their men counter part but in return they are also the most masculine you can find them. They cut their hairs short, wear pants, some developing deep voice, they are literally men with ability to conceive and for that reason a Muslim woman is not allowed to be with a non-Muslim woman alone.

    At the same time a Muslim man should not be at the same room or be alone with a non-Muslim woman for they also maintain sexuality and beauty that attract men as they are some feminine men (non-Muslim women) and masculine men (non-Muslim women).
    I think that is a terrible lie, that non muslim woman are stronger than their counterpart etc.. It is true that a very few go the way with short hair pants and acting like a man, but are still not stronger than their male counterpart. It is simple physiology, they just aren't.

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    xboxisdead's Avatar
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Quote Originally Posted by flapvaber View Post
    I think that is a terrible lie, that non muslim woman are stronger than their counterpart etc.. It is true that a very few go the way with short hair pants and acting like a man, but are still not stronger than their male counterpart. It is simple physiology, they just aren't.
    How is it a lie? Non-Muslim women run the country and not the men. They out perform the non-Muslim men in education, in family court, in emotional and psychological strength and they are raising the children on their own. Naturally such unfair unbalance to the non-Muslim female have resulted in the destruction of Western society. Since in Non-Muslim country it is the female who are the leader and ruler and Qayama over their men counterpart. They inherit 50/50 of their male counterpart. In divorce they obtain 50% and from their male counterpart. The non-Muslim women can kill you and she will never go to prison. The non-Muslim woman can castrate your son and she will be empowered and liberated. Watch TV and observe the insult hurls that the non-Muslim men take and the psychological and physical abuse he have to endure and as a non-Muslim men he is not allowed to express his emotions or feelings and he have to take it. Thus the non-Muslim women she get to step over your head and you better be pleased she have her foot on your head.

    So...no. What I said is not a lie. Non-Muslim men are weak, feminized and have failed in their society because the non-Muslim men have given equality and superiority to the female counterpart over him. Nothing I said is a lie. Sorry. You seem to be hiding behind your finger

    In the non-Muslim family I would talk to the head of the household and that is the woman and not the man. You can easily be replaced by another man if she see fit but she have all the power and wealth from you. Why waste time respecting a non-Muslim men to be honest. Waste of energy. Don't also forget thanks to the radio wave, and wifi and food intake the non-Muslim men are consuming you will be birthing more daughters than sons. IN non-Muslim family the new family structure is a mother and daughters or sometimes...sprinkle in a father, mother and daughter(s). Not sons. If you have not noticed. So excuse me, but you are wrong to tell me I am a liar.

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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    A non mahram man (one who is not close relative) is not allowed to be in such close proximity to a woman, and touching woman's body with tools will still be touching a woman's body with something that creates a sensation within them, so for these two reasons it will not be allowed

    Now if it was for very essential medical reasons (such as healing a very painful neck or something) and there was no female or mahram to do it, then this may be an exception
    Ok this start to address the issue.
    So if non essential, using tools. which quran verses/hadith would cover this subject exactly?

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    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    What part of your question is not addressed?

    did you read my reply:

    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual
    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual So far I have not found answers to my enquiry on several muslim forums, they tend to m...

  14. #11
    flapvaber's Avatar
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    What part of your question is not addressed?

    did you read my reply:

    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual
    Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual So far I have not found answers to my enquiry on several muslim forums, they tend to m...
    I did.. and it doesn't address the question. It does give the same answers there are on other forums like you correctly pointed out, but doesn't address the specific situation I'm asking about regarding massaging with tools on a dressed body.

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Quote Originally Posted by flapvaber View Post
    Ok this start to address the issue.
    So if non essential, using tools. which quran verses/hadith would cover this subject exactly?
    Quran Say's 'don't even go near to fornication' (Chapter 17 sūrat l-isrā ) so that's the verse that basically says, keep a good safe distance from non-mahram women. This verse also implies we shouldn't touch non-mahram women.

    Now ofcourse some people can argue, if I just shake hands with a woman and do not intend any sexual motive at all then why shouldn't that be OK?, however there is a risk.. Basically it could LEAD to fornication so our scholars have shut the door to it

    Now if touching with hands is not allowed due to the risk it poses, then touching with tools poses the same risk as its not dissimilar to touching with hand in terms of close proximity and creating sensation in women's body or even getting a thrill out of a sensation the toucher could feel too from 'pshycoligical pleasure'

    So the impermissibility to touch with tools is really a straight forward deduction based on the same verse.
    | Likes flapvaber liked this post

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    flapvaber's Avatar
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    How is it a lie? Non-Muslim women run the country and not the men. They out perform the non-Muslim men in education, in family court, in emotional and psychological strength and they are raising the children on their own. Naturally such unfair unbalance to the non-Muslim female have resulted in the destruction of Western society. Since in Non-Muslim country it is the female who are the leader and ruler and Qayama over their men counterpart. They inherit 50/50 of their male counterpart. In divorce they obtain 50% and from their male counterpart. The non-Muslim women can kill you and she will never go to prison. The non-Muslim woman can castrate your son and she will be empowered and liberated. Watch TV and observe the insult hurls that the non-Muslim men take and the psychological and physical abuse he have to endure and as a non-Muslim men he is not allowed to express his emotions or feelings and he have to take it. Thus the non-Muslim women she get to step over your head and you better be pleased she have her foot on your head.

    So...no. What I said is not a lie. Non-Muslim men are weak, feminized and have failed in their society because the non-Muslim men have given equality and superiority to the female counterpart over him. Nothing I said is a lie. Sorry. You seem to be hiding behind your finger

    In the non-Muslim family I would talk to the head of the household and that is the woman and not the man. You can easily be replaced by another man if she see fit but she have all the power and wealth from you. Why waste time respecting a non-Muslim men to be honest. Waste of energy. Don't also forget thanks to the radio wave, and wifi and food intake the non-Muslim men are consuming you will be birthing more daughters than sons. IN non-Muslim family the new family structure is a mother and daughters or sometimes...sprinkle in a father, mother and daughter(s). Not sons. If you have not noticed. So excuse me, but you are wrong to tell me I am a liar.
    I think you are getting rather personal. Just because you like to tyrannize your woman, doesn't mean that non muslim men are not on the top of society. We still very much are, there are a few woman who do climb rather high on that ladder. But that is not at all the same as the woman being in power, don't be delusional and hide your pride behind your lies.
    With love and respect I hope you discover the evils of your ways. God bless.

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    flapvaber's Avatar
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    Re: Opposite sex non muslim massage with tools on clothes not sexual

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Quran Say's 'don't even go near to fornication' (Chapter 17 sūrat l-isrā ) so that's the verse that basically says, keep a good safe distance from non-mahram women. This verse also implies we shouldn't touch non-mahram women.

    Now ofcourse some people can argue, if I just shake hands with a woman and do not intend any sexual motive at all then why shouldn't that be OK?, however there is a risk.. Basically it could LEAD to fornication so our scholars have shut the door to it

    Now if touching with hands is not allowed due to the risk it poses, then touching with tools poses the same risk as its not dissimilar to touching with hand in terms of close proximity and creating sensation in women's body or even getting a thrill out of a sensation the toucher could feel too from 'pshycoligical pleasure'

    So the impermissibility to touch with tools is really a straight forward deduction based on the same verse.
    I think that is over speculating things.
    basically there is no rule that directly prohibits the situation i described. The reason for my question is to discover the exact border, not speculations on what happens when you just get near the border. This needs to be based on quranic rule.
    I understand that touching her on her clothes directly would be prohibited according to her clothes being part of her when she wears it and as such no direct touch even on clothes are allowed (unless it is emergency).
    Reason for using tools is to avoid direct touch and she is dressed so there is no looking. It happens in public and or with a chaperone.
    we are not fornicating nor having any intention of it, there is no fitna.

    This is my understanding on what has been put here. Correct me with the quran if i am wrong on this.

    Fornication is also prohibited in the bible.
    Do not make life more hard than it has to be. Act with agape (humane love).


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