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  1. #1
    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    The 'humanitarian' deception.

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    Assalamualaikum Wr. Wb.

    The kuffars (desbelievers) are under the illusion that being a humanitarian is enough to be a good person in this world and it doesn't matter what your faith is.

    This is infact satan's way to lull them into a sense they they are good human beings so they don't need religion anymore. So it's a type of self deception. A type of hypocrysy as what's really behind their 'humanitarianism' is the excuse to live as they desire and reject the true religion

    Now I would like to expound a theory*1 that without acknowledging Allah and being a true monothiest, no one can really be good in their hearts and if they do some soul searching they'd infact see that they are really evil*2.

    I can give many examples of this 'evil', however as time and energy (lol yup I'm lazy) is limited, I'll make do with one.

    Let's take a humanitarian American senator for an example. Now this guy gives in charity, goes to church, and supports live aid for Africa! Bravo! What a good guy! What a humanitarian! However he also supports evil assad in massacring his people!

    So there you have it guys, he's saving lives on the one hand, and complicit in genocide on the other

    I rest my case

    Wa aaqiru dawana anil hamdulillahi rabbil aalameen

    *1 this theory is based on many observations over the years and on the Quranic verses that say desbelievers abide in hell forever, thus logic tells us such people cannot be good hearted

    *2 this word applies to some and not all desbelievers, as all good and bad in them are relative so one cannot generalise
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 1 Week Ago at 10:31 PM.

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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Greetings and peace be with you Ahmed;

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Let's take a humanitarian Muslim American senator for an example. Now this guy gives in charity, goes to mosque, and supports live aid for Africa! Bravo! What a good guy! What a humanitarian! However he also supports evil assad in massacring his people!

    So there you have it guys, he's saving lives on the one hand, and complicit in genocide on the other

    I rest my case
    I have changed two words in your quote above and made them bold. Will the senator now be granted salvation because he is a Muslim? We will all stand before God; and as I understand; we will also be judged by the way we judge other people.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

    Eric
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    The 'humanitarian' deception.

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  4. #3
    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you Ahmed;



    I have changed two words in your quote above and made them bold. Will the senator now be granted salvation because he is a Muslim? We will all stand before God; and as I understand; we will also be judged by the way we judge other people.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

    Eric
    Let's not blame each other and rather look at what each one of you are trying to establish. Brother @Ahmed is probably trying to give Dawah (calling others to Islam). It is a good thing to call others to Islam but probably not the best way in my opinion. I apologize brother Ahmed but at least I am not saying this at your back. I can tell that your intention is right but it appears that the statement is more general. Muslims are not the only one who do many good works, I have seen many non Muslims who do many great things to help the suffering humanity. But will it worth anything in hereafter? I will discuss that towards the end of my this post and I think that's what Brother Ahmed was trying to warn against.

    Brother @Eric H on the other side wants to says that there are Muslims who do the same things which brother Ahmed accused Christians with. Brother Eric, if you think all Muslims truly practice Islam and will go to paradise then that's not true.
    Born as a Muslim is different than being a Muslim. There many Muslims who call themselves Muslims just because they are born in a Muslim family. They never read Quran and they only know about Islam what their forefathers have told them. For them Quran is only a book to be placed on a high shelf and never to be read and reflected upon. There are also Muslims who use religion to control other people. Their understanding of Islam is only to gain political and material benefits in this world. Their actions clearly tell us that they are as far from Islam as the non-Muslims are and in some cases they are even worse.

    There is great emphasis in Islam on rights of Allah SWT, rights of others human beings, and rights of animals, trees, our environment etc. Muslim means one who submits to the will of God and anyone one who truly submits to the will of Allah SWT will know that he/she has certain rights for human beings around him which he/she shall fulfill. Those who truly fulfill these rights will stand out and even their own enemies will testify their good moral values and character.

    As far as the right of our Creator is concerned, it is to believe in Him without any partners. If we don't fulfill this right, then our all good actions are nullified and will have no weight on the day of Judgement. Quran says:

    Then do those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants instead of Me as allies? Indeed, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as a lodging.
    Say, [O Muhammad], "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?
    [They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work.
    Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance.
    That is their recompense - Hell - for what they denied and [because] they took My signs and My messengers in ridicule. [Quran 18:102-106]
    I think this is what brother Ahmed was intending to say. I don't think this post was directly addressing you but since you have replied, I will request you to ponder over these verses with an open heart. By no means, we intend to push Islam on you. I know that this topic keeps coming over and over again but it is not to make fun of Christianity but it is purely out of love and concern for your hereafter since people on this forum know you for a long time and they want the best for you.

    I understand it is a sensitive topic and therefore apologize if my response has offended you in any way. Please rest assure that's never my intention. I am answerable to God for my actions and He knows what is deep down in my heart. With that said, I will personally refrain from giving you Dawah openly in the forum. I may still message you privately and I hope we can continue our dialogue respectfully to remove any doubts you may have about Islam. If you think Christianity is the right religion, then I am open to read your evidences and arguments for that as well. It will not be a one way traffic.

    We pray to Allah to open your heart towards Islam because surely it is Allah who knows everything and it is Allah who guides whom He wills.
    If you still think Islam is not for you, that's your choice. We will still welcome you with open arms and benefit from your experience and knowledge on this forum.
    May God protect you and those who you love and care for! Ameen!
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 1 Week Ago at 06:37 PM.
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  5. #4
    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you Ahmed;



    I have changed two words in your quote above and made them bold. Will the senator now be granted salvation because he is a Muslim? We will all stand before God; and as I understand; we will also be judged by the way we judge other people.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

    Eric
    Hi Eric,

    It's true what you said, we will be judged the way we judge others, however it's the intention that counts. If we judge someone in order to point out where this guy is going wrong, and to guide/inform of the 'bad path' to others (like I judged trump the other day) then that's a noble intention.

    The type of judging others that's wrong is when there is possibility of interpreting this guys words/actions in a good way and instead one chooses to be harsh.

    My judgement in OP was an example using a fictional character, so I wasn't really judging anyone there

    As for your question regarding a similar Muslim person, I don't think there is any proper Muslim that supports assad ('proper' meaning, from the rightly guided sect that is Sunni Islam)

    The alawites that support him are regarded as non Muslims and the Shias that support him are from the deviant 12er sect. There are some Sunni soldiers of the SAA that have remained I think with Assads army but they are under fear of their lives, thinking they'd be safer with the 'stronger' group that is SAA, so it seems they have some mitigating circumstance

    This is not about parties per se and who's Muslim or not, but the clear right and wrongs and monstrous acts we can see, so supporting assads party or ISIS would be wrong
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 1 Week Ago at 07:09 PM.
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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Yup, brother @HabibUrrehman is right, none of that was directed at you personally Eric,, it was more of a general explanation and dawah towards the right path
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  8. #6
    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Here is another example of hypocrysy by those politicians:

    Usually the West's stance on Palestinian/Israel conflict is to support Israel isn't it?

    Well guess what?, when these evil-doers need something from us, they pretend to support Palestinians and denounce israil!

    I remember when Iraq war was starting and the government trying to get Muslim support on board. Jack Straw (who is a jew himself) was asked about whether he supports israil, and Jack Straw answered: "they can't use an ancient scirpture to capture other people's land'!!!

  9. #7
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Greetings and peace be with you Ahmed.

    none of that was directed at you personally Eric,, it was more of a general explanation and dawah towards the right path.
    Thanks for sharing, I guessed that was your intention, and I know you have my best interests at heart, so thanks again.

    Peace be with you Habib,

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Allah who knows everything and it is Allah who guides whom He wills.
    Thanks for your kind words. There is nothing you or I could say that would turn me towards Islam, without Allah first guiding me. I can only say, that I feel called to Christianity, in the same way you feel called to Islam. Beyond a doubt we are both created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers.

    May Allah bless you all, and those you love and care for,

    Eric
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    The 'humanitarian' deception.

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    If there's one thing I hate, that's Muslims being taken as fools!

    So what is this Armenian genocide vote all about then?, good guys seeking justice?, I don't think so:

    The unlawful killing of any civilian is an injustice and it needs to be rectified. However there needs to be parity in the world. We cannot do 'justice' to one group of people while we ignore other groups or even continue to oppress other groups, for this type of disparity adds to the injustice of the others, therefore its not a justice at all but rather, rubbing salt in the wounds of the others
    ....................................

    Now where does 'Muslims being taken as fools' come into all of this?, just don't be taken in by them when they pull the 'jack straw' on us

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    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    If there's one thing I hate, that's Muslims being taken as fools!

    So what is this Armenian genocide vote all about then?, good guys seeking justice?, I don't think so:

    The unlawful killing of any civilian is an injustice and it needs to be rectified. However there needs to be parity in the world. We cannot do 'justice' to one group of people while we ignore other groups or even continue to oppress other groups, for this type of disparity adds to the injustice of the others, therefore its not a justice at all but rather, rubbing salt in the wounds of the others
    ....................................

    Now where does 'Muslims being taken as fools' come into all of this?, just don't be taken in by them when they pull the 'jack straw' on us
    Dont worry brother. Practicing Muslims are always considered to be strange and are looked down upon in this world. People think we are backward and still live in 7th century. But on the day of Judgement, these people will wish to have accepted Islam in this world.

    Ummah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH will be given light coming out the parts we wash regularly while making ablution.
    Ummah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH will drink from the cistern of Al-Kawther on the day of judgement and who so ever will drink from al-kawther will never get thirsty. Imagine sun being a mile away and people are buried in their own sweat and so thirsty while faithful Muslims being under the shade of Allah's throne and having no thirst at all. Subhan Allah!
    Ummah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH will be the first one to be judged on the day of Judgement, the day which is 50,000 years long. Ummah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH, will make up 2/3 of the people of jannah ( 80 rows out of 120 row).

    Let them make fun of us, we will have the final laugh inshallah. In fact, Quran has already described this scene:

    Indeed, those who committed crimes used to laugh at those who believed.
    And when they passed by them, they would exchange derisive glances.
    And when they returned to their people, they would return jesting.
    And when they saw them, they would say, "Indeed, those are truly lost."
    But they had not been sent as guardians over them.
    So Today those who believed are laughing at the disbelievers,
    On adorned couches, observing.
    Have the disbelievers [not] been rewarded [this Day] for what they used to do? [Quran 83:29-36]
    It is laughable that these so called peace makers think their actions are to restore peace in the world, little they know that they are source of corruption in the society. As Quran says:
    And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
    Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not. [Quran 2:11-12]
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 1 Week Ago at 05:31 PM.
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    SintoDinto's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Dear neo ottoman @Ahmed. the greatest evidence for an armenian genocide is the social genocide going on against my people, the gulenists, and the people who spoke out in defense of them, the furkan vakfi, and the hdp, and the syrians by my nation, the turks, under the reign of recep.

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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    humanist/humanitarian are people that haven't see or haven't aware how ugly the reality of human's lifes in this world.
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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Greetings and peace be with you Habib;

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    It is laughable that these so called peace makers think their actions are to restore peace in the world
    In order to be a peace maker, you have to be in the middle of conflict. Over the last eleven years I have walked in the middle of many angry drunken fights; this is nothing to do with world peace, rather we strive for peace in our town. I have asked people to hand me their knives, we have intervened in fights with broken bottles and tended to many injuries over the years. We don't do self defence, we have no protection other than God. I shall be out in the streets tonight until about 4 am tomorrow morning; we pray for God's peace; we pray for something good to happen and we ask for guidance to do God's will. None of this is laughable.

    This morning, I was with the Muslim chair of our local interfaith group to open a bank account for them. The accounts manager at the bank was also a Muslim, we hope to do some good in our community together.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

    Eric
    The 'humanitarian' deception.

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  16. #13
    Ümit's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    Dear neo ottoman @Ahmed. the greatest evidence for an armenian genocide is the social genocide going on against my people, the gulenists, and the people who spoke out in defense of them, the furkan vakfi, and the hdp, and the syrians by my nation, the turks, under the reign of recep.
    wat a big pile of nonsense are you talking about?
    how are the actions of Erdogan evidence for what happened 100 years ago?
    did Erdogan kill those Armenians or are you suggesting that the Turks are and always have been evil or something? i am politically not that strong...so I cannot talk about the Gülen and Furkan movement...but the HDP is a Kurdisch party...they support the PKK a terrorist organisation and want an independant state Kurdistan....not gonna happen.
    about the Armenians in Turkey...during the war, britisch and french soldiers have been invading the ottoman empire...and what did the Armenians do when they saw their fellow christian soldiers? they betrayed the very country they lived in and supported the britisch and french army. and Ataturk of course punished them for this betrayal by sending them away from Turkey. so first there was war going on...and second, they just got punished for their own crimes...so how is this genocide?

    what do you think the penalty is for treason nowadays?
    for example in UK...the penalty is life imprisonment.
    so think before you post some nonsense.
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    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you Habib;



    In order to be a peace maker, you have to be in the middle of conflict. Over the last eleven years I have walked in the middle of many angry drunken fights; this is nothing to do with world peace, rather we strive for peace in our town. I have asked people to hand me their knives, we have intervened in fights with broken bottles and tended to many injuries over the years. We don't do self defence, we have no protection other than God. I shall be out in the streets tonight until about 4 am tomorrow morning; we pray for God's peace; we pray for something good to happen and we ask for guidance to do God's will. None of this is laughable.

    This morning, I was with the Muslim chair of our local interfaith group to open a bank account for them. The accounts manager at the bank was also a Muslim, we hope to do some good in our community together.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

    Eric

    You definitely misunderstood my post. If humanity moves away from Divine laws then they create problems for themselves. The problems you are talking about are all result of ignoring Divine laws and depending on human made laws. In Islam focus is always on solving the root cause not the symptoms. You took the guy who needed help to a bank to open an account for him which will be based on interest? How is that going to help him when God has forbidden to deal with interest? Western society is responsible for creating all the homeless people by introducing interest based economic system. There are more 3.2 million homeless people in UK alone. International debts are responsible for killing more 130,000 children around the world every week. Interest based system is the root cause, fix that and try not to deal with interest. Obey Allah and His Divine laws, if we don't then yes it is laughable that we create our own problems and then we pretend that we are doing a great humanitarian work by help few homeless people in the name of God.

    If we truly need to fight for humanity and Justice then first we need to correct our foundation. If foundation is not right, nothing really matters. Any building built without foundation is going to collapse.

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    SintoDinto's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    wat a big pile of nonsense are you talking about?
    how are the actions of Erdogan evidence for what happened 100 years ago?
    did Erdogan kill those Armenians or are you suggesting that the Turks are and always have been evil or something? i am politically not that strong...so I cannot talk about the Gülen and Furkan movement...but the HDP is a Kurdisch party...they support the PKK a terrorist organisation and want an independant state Kurdistan....not gonna happen.
    about the Armenians in Turkey...during the war, britisch and french soldiers have been invading the ottoman empire...and what did the Armenians do when they saw their fellow christian soldiers? they betrayed the very country they lived in and supported the britisch and french army. and Ataturk of course punished them for this betrayal by sending them away from Turkey. so first there was war going on...and second, they just got punished for their own crimes...so how is this genocide?

    what do you think the penalty is for treason nowadays?
    for example in UK...the penalty is life imprisonment.
    so think before you post some nonsense.
    sorry, just meant to push buttons cause I was in a bad mood in all honesty. my apologies.

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    Dear neo ottoman @Ahmed. the greatest evidence for an armenian genocide is the social genocide going on against my people, the gulenists, and the people who spoke out in defense of them, the furkan vakfi, and the hdp, and the syrians by my nation, the turks, under the reign of recep.
    Brother, I advised you against the gulenists before. How can they be good when they made deal with USA to overthrow Erdogan with coup and allow USA to divide and conquer Turkey by giving the evil israhell loving kurds their own state?

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    SintoDinto's Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Brother, I advised you against the gulenists before. How can they be good when they made deal with USA to overthrow Erdogan with coup and allow USA to divide and conquer Turkey by giving the evil israhell loving kurds their own state?
    my answer is simple. 1) the entire gulenist organization is not responsible for the coup, only a few are, 2)it was an inside job through turkish intelligence. 3) many of the coup plotters were forced to confess under duress of torture, false things 4) the turkish media is state owned and even the media that is not state owned as well, is heavily censored leading to a one sided view of events 5) not all coup plotters were gulenist 6)the coup was not about a kurdish state, that is American CNN nonsense. I suggest you get educated on these matters. I will not discuss turkish politics any longer, as it is not fruitful. if boxed into a corned, i will give the same result, like a broken record, along with "go research from gulenist media"

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    Dear neo ottoman @Ahmed. the greatest evidence for an armenian genocide is the social genocide going on against my people, the gulenists, and the people who spoke out in defense of them, the furkan vakfi, and the hdp, and the syrians by my nation, the turks, under the reign of recep.
    It weren't a genocide mate. Do you know of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf?, he's a white American Christian convert to Muslim and he's always very fair to both West and Islam. And he researches something very thoroughly before reaching an opinion on it. He is a towering intellectual and he said that the numbers of armenian dead have been exaggerated by anti Ottoman historians and the real numbers are no where near as high to be catogorised as genocide

    He mentions a bit on following vid:

    https://youtu.be/0bO0C_cZcbg

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: The 'humanitarian' deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    wat a big pile of nonsense are you talking about?
    how are the actions of Erdogan evidence for what happened 100 years ago?
    did Erdogan kill those Armenians or are you suggesting that the Turks are and always have been evil or something? i am politically not that strong...so I cannot talk about the Gülen and Furkan movement...but the HDP is a Kurdisch party...they support the PKK a terrorist organisation and want an independant state Kurdistan....not gonna happen.
    about the Armenians in Turkey...during the war, britisch and french soldiers have been invading the ottoman empire...and what did the Armenians do when they saw their fellow christian soldiers? they betrayed the very country they lived in and supported the britisch and french army. and Ataturk of course punished them for this betrayal by sending them away from Turkey. so first there was war going on...and second, they just got punished for their own crimes...so how is this genocide?

    what do you think the penalty is for treason nowadays?
    for example in UK...the penalty is life imprisonment.
    so think before you post some nonsense.
    Well said brother!


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