Muslims upset at in-your-face lesson in Dutchness

**solid_snake** · 03-19-2006

http://smh.com.au/news/world/muslims...098602916.html

By Gregory Crouch in Nijmegen, the Netherlands
March 17, 2006

THIS is not exactly a run-of-the-mill homework assignment: watch a film clip of an attractive woman sunbathing topless and try not to be shocked.

"People do not make a fuss about nudity," the narrator says.

That lesson, about the Netherlands' nude beaches, is followed by another: homosexuals have the same rights here as heterosexuals do, including the chance to marry.

Just to make sure everyone gets the message, two men are shown kissing in a meadow.

The scenes are brief parts of a two-hour-long film that the Dutch government has compiled to help potential immigrants, many from Islamic countries, meet the demands of a new entrance test that went into effect on Wednesday.

Opponents of the tightening immigration policies have pointed to the film - a DVD contained in a package of study materials for the new exam - as an attempt by the Government to discourage applicants from Islamic countries who may be offended by its content.

Dutch politicians and immigration officials have dismissed those accusations, saying the film is a study aid that will give potential immigrants an honest look at the way life is lived here.

"The film is meant for people not yet in Holland to take note that this is normal here and not be shocked and awed by it once they arrive," said Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born member of the Dutch parliament.

But Abdou Menebhi, chairman of Emcemo, a Moroccan interest group in Amsterdam, said the film was just another example of how the Netherlands was trying to limit immigration from Muslim countries.

"This isn't education, it's provocation," Mr Menebhi said. "The new law has one goal: to stop the flow of immigrants, especially by Muslims from countries like Morocco and Turkey."

Citizens from the US, the European Union, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan and Switzerland are exempt.

Dutch officials deny the film is intended to discourage Muslim immigration. But they insist they want all applicants to wonder whether or not they would fit into one of the world's most permissive societies.

Besides the snippets on homosexuality and nudity, the film shows a run-down neighbourhood populated by immigrants who describe the Dutch as "cold" and "distant". It warns of traffic jams, unemployment and possible flooding. One newspaper joked that the tourist board would give the whole production a thumbs down.

**irsha** · 03-19-2006

I think is a wonderful Idea, it just says, you are welcome, but only if you can be tolerant to ther peoples way of life. I wish our government would have th guts to do the same.

**abdul Majid** · 03-19-2006

i think thats funny ...lol

**Knut Hamsun** · 03-19-2006

yeah, if homosexual marriage and beach nudity are legal there--and they are--, immigrants should be able to deal with it (or don't go there!). Fair is fair!

**afriend** · 03-19-2006

Allah tells us to stay away from fitnah afflicted areas......

because, sooner or later, the punnishment of Allah will come, and there is no guarantee that u will b safe cos ur a good muslim, Azhab spares nothing...

Best to stay away.

**irsha** · 03-19-2006

maybe it would be best to stay away, many muslims do seem to have a problem accepting other peoples way of life, Of course you can always recpricate with vidoes of people getting stoned to death for similar behaviour in muslim countries, that way the westerners will stay away from you too.

**abdul Majid** · 03-19-2006

you too?? you seem a lil angry.... listen a good muslim, has a problem with things that are wrong! not peoples way of life , you got us confused a bit..

the prophet(pbh) lived with jews and christians in his time, and there was peace, these people never did disgracefull acts as they do today out in the open remember that..

**irsha** · 03-19-2006

Perhaps my view on muslims is a little tainted, I have been called evry name you can immagine- but only ever by muslims, for my way of life. I also have a problem with the attitude on "what would you do if your child turned gay, forum. I figure if muslims are willing to kill their own children for being gay, then what chance do they have of being able to be tolerant of people being free in front of them. If muslims are wiling to mind their own business on these issues, then of course they are welcome.

**Knut Hamsun** · 03-19-2006

Well said, Irsha. I have no tolerance for intolerant religious people.

**abdul Majid** · 03-19-2006

KILLING A CHILD OF ANYSORT IS UNLAWFUL!

im sad that you harbor terrible views on islam, when it is actually the opposite of what you think...maybe you just met the wrong people, and we do mind our bizness.. but what do you mean about that?

**irsha** · 03-19-2006

Have a look at that thread, they probably meant when their child was an adult- which I believe in a female is considered when they have their period- which can be as young as 8 years old. As to minding their own business, I mean just accept it. Not like here, where the top immam (shiek hilally) said its "Australian cultures fault for allowing women to dress as they want" (in reference to a group of muslim young men who gang raped a girl). The other thing is, I have personally been called all sorts of names by muslims for my way of life

**abdul Majid** · 03-19-2006

well thats horrible and wrong irsha, name calling is not right at all, and judging people also....but i want you to please remember something, there are people out there that should, be acting like true muslims but unfortunately they act foolish and fall into evil....they dont represent our religion ISLAM.. when theirs actions are such...a true muslim wouldnt do that...

**irsha** · 03-19-2006

Well, I hope so, that is why I am here, to see.
But you should try to walk around Cronulla beach with skimpy clothes on and see how many muslim young men insult you and call you names like
"skippy sl-t". Thats why I moved away from that beach up north

**abdul Majid** · 03-19-2006

thats just wrong those kids are not very intellectuall as you can see, lol

**irsha** · 03-19-2006

they were not kids, they are usually around 19 to late 20's

**abdul Majid** · 03-19-2006

well they sure acted like kids to me ....lol

**Umu 'Isa** · 03-19-2006

Originally Posted by irsha

Well, I hope so, that is why I am here, to see.
But you should try to walk around Cronulla beach with skimpy clothes on and see how many muslim young men insult you and call you names like
"skippy sl-t". Thats why I moved away from that beach up north

irsha.. i know the type of guys you are talking about..
do you honestly think they practise islam?
A true muslim who abides by Qur'an and Sunnah does not call people names,

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
“The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely or speak rudely.”

Also muslim men should not be looking at women anyway! Unfortunately, there are young men that go around doing this, and call themselves muslims! But if you want to see how a muslim should be, read about the Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) life.

**irsha** · 03-19-2006

Ok, we are getting off topic, Iy will be interesting to see how tolerant people are when they get to know me

**Al-Zaara** · 03-19-2006

Originally Posted by irsha

Ok, we are getting off topic, Iy will be interesting to see how tolerant people are when they get to know me

Well, it depends alot if you too are being tolerant.
I mean, one shouldn't try to find the line where people get intolerant, insulted or angry, rather should you say your thing nicely and politely and I know, there may be some who will reply harshly or rudely but then again there are those who will answer you with the same tolerance you showed (reply politely back etc) Even though we or others disagree with you, with tolerance from both sides, we will make our points clearly and won't need to call one another intolerant, rude, stupid or God knows what.
To say this short, you want tolerant people, be one of them and you will find them.