those who say deen is in the heart

yeah but once it's in the heart doesnt it work outwards? i.e. hijab, beard, manner of speaking, actions e.t.c I think Imaan must start in the heart, otherwise it's not sincere Allahu A'lam

So if someone says the shahadah, prays, fasts and fulfils the other five pillars, they'll have wasted their time unless they have a beard or wear the hijab?

As a revert I find Islam to be a religion of continuous growth. We continue to find new challanges and as we fulfill one area we have the strength to continue onward. We begin simply with the Shahadah and for a while are comfortable in feeling that is truly being a Muslim. Then we begin to take our prayers seriously and again we feel, that is being a true Muslim next we start to practice the pillars to the best of our ability and so on through the rest of our life. As we age we never grow old as we always have future growth in front of us.

We have a very youthful religion. None of us will ever achieve old age in it as we will never stop learning and growing. We all age and grow at different rates.

A 12 year old with much to learn is just as much of a Muslim as the 90 year old scholar who knows and has done very much.


Deen has to be in our heart, as we will never complete it in our deeds and words.

format_quote Originally Posted by amani

from what youve said excluding your ie part, you are describing the murjiahs? who are people that separate iman from actions..ie you only need to believe in Allah and your entrance to paradise is garaunteed no matter what your actions...

and Allah knows best

Far from that. High Iman is going to guarantee a person does actions. How can a person seperate Iman from deeds? When the 2 become seperate the Iman is not there. But, we are individuals and we all have limitations we can only achieve what we are capable of knowing and physicaly able to do, and with those tools our Iman will demand we do the best we can. we do not know why some people do not do some of the external, visible things. But, if they are not done because of limitations, perhaps the person is doing the best he can.

Using myself as an example. I look odd because I do not have a beard at my age. However, because of my ethnic back ground I can not grow a beard. Best I can do is a scraggly mustache and we are supposed to keep that trimmed off.

format_quote Originally Posted by jihaadu nafs

What is the meaning of those who say deen is in my heart, without any outward actions? I.e. Shaving the beard, not wearing the hijaab??

Deen means way of life, it's not about the heart. But it depends on the heart quite a lot. If you don't have the pure intentions, growing a beard or wearing Hijab is pointless. But if you do willingly choose not to do outward things like have a beard, then you do not have pure intentions.

The word 'deen' is Arabic and actually means 'Way of life' rather than 'religeon'. So from this we should understand that Islam should be in our hearts, our behaviour and our looks. if something is in the heart and not being reflected in out physical life, then what is the point of having that thing in the heart? That thing in the heart cannot be serious then can it?

Imaan composes of beliefs and actions. You'll notice in the Qur'an whenever Allaah mentions Iman, he will mention good deeds along with it because the two are insperatable. How can one claim to be a muslim and not practice the religion?

47: 2. But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad (SAW), for it is the truth from their Lord, He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state.

حدثنا أبو نعيم حدثنا زكرياء عن عامر قال سمعت النعمان بن بشير يقول سمعت رسول الله صلى اللهم عليه وسلم يقول الحلال بين والحرام بين وبينهما مشبهات لا يعلمها كثير من الناس فمن اتقى المشبهات استبرأ لدينه وعرضه ومن وقع في الشبهات كراع يرعى حول الحمى يوشك أن يواقعه ألا وإن لكل ملك حمى ألا إن حمى الله في أرضه محارمه ألا وإن في الجسد مضغة إذا صلحت صلح الجسد كله وإذا فسدت فسد الجسد كله ألا وهي القلب

Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'Both legal and illegal things are evident but in between them there are doubtful (suspicious) things and most of the people have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from these suspicious things saves his religion and his honor. And whoever indulges in these suspicious things is like a shepherd who grazes (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it. (O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is His illegal (forbidden) things. Beware! There is a piece of flesh in the body if it becomes good (reformed) the whole body becomes good but if it gets spoilt the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 49

In Islam, we have to proclaim by the tongue, Believe by heart and display by the actions.

format_quote Originally Posted by jihaadu nafs

What is the meaning of those who say deen is in my heart, without any outward actions? I.e. Shaving the beard, not wearing the hijaab??

i think those who say that are lazy (astagfirullaah)

but its like saying:

ye man i said it, i feel it, u cant see it, but i got it, you dont think so? prove it, its in my heart, i dont have to show you, now go away while i drink this beer... astagfirullaah!!

Iman increases by doing good deeds and decreases by sinning. How then can a person have high iman if they do no actions?

Honestly, people who say that outward actions are not important have a lot to learn about Islam!

format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin

So if someone says the shahadah, prays, fasts and fulfils the other five pillars, they'll have wasted their time unless they have a beard or wear the hijab?

Well ignorance is not an escuse for people who are in a muslim community and general things.

So if one does not wear hijab, and they pray, then will their prayer be accepted?

So then if their prayers are not accepted then will they keep being muslim?

Also, for those thinking about Eeman,

heres something:

Al Eeman is the testification of the tongue, belief in the heart, and actions of the limbs. It increases with obedience and decreases with dsiobidience.

Taken from Beneficial Speech In Establishing The Evidences Of Tawheed, By By Shaykh Muhammad Bin Abdil-Wahhaab Al-Wasaabee.

format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin

So if someone says the shahadah, prays, fasts and fulfils the other five pillars, they'll have wasted their time unless they have a beard or wear the hijab?

do you think its alright to pick and mix islam

I don't want to get into a debate. All I'm saying is we shouldn't judge people on their outward appearances. For instance, when a good friend of mine told me Zidane (the soccer player, for those who don't know) was Muslim, I scoffed and sarcastically said that he wasn't doing a very good job of it, drinking and everything. My friend then said, 'Dude, if you say the shahadah, you're Muslim. It's not for us to judge'. The more I thought about it, the more I realised he was right. In my university for example, certain bearded Muslim males seemingly have no problem with flirting with girls, and certain hijabis see no problem with flirting with boys and wearing tight clothing.

I'm not saying that everyone who has a beard or wear a headscarf is secretly a bad Muslim or something. I'm just saying don't assume that people who do not have beards or do not wear the hijaab must be bad Muslims in some way.