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  1. #81
    Full Member AhmedGassama's Avatar
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    Re: PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix


    Quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere View Post
    The Ummah needs to get back on the right track!
    In all civilizations, there are ups and downs.

    But when Muslims ruled the world, they spread justice and equity.
    And when European ruled the world, they spread oppression and injustice!
    PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix wel

    THIS NATION WILL KNOW WHO WILL DEFEND IT WITH HIS TONGUE AND WHO WILL FIGHT FOR IT WITH THE GLORIOUS SWORD !!!

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  3. #82
    Full Member fromelsewhere's Avatar
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    Re: PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix


    Quote Originally Posted by AhmedGassama View Post
    First of all, The PhD was not accepted and it found big opposition in all of Tunisia.
    Second of all, i ask you a question

    After all of the blood shed caused by Europeans during the modern age, where does the humanitarian difference between the Europeans of the Middle Ages and the Europeans of the Modern Age lies ?
    Europeans are certainly no better (or worse) than Muslims. The bloodshed caused by the Europeans during the modern age was primarily due to 2 devastating ideologies: Nazism and Communism. Europeans have since gotten themselves rid of these stupid ideologies (there are a few exceptions, like @Karl who seems to still believe that Nazism is ok). The problem is that there is now a worrying trend in the Muslim world with so-called imams preaching hate and anti-science messages that are unacceptable. It is leading to a lot of unnecessary tensions and chaos in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shias, for instance. This is a rather recent trend, but it is there and it is not getting better. I just advocate for moderation in the sense that everyone can practice Islam to his or her level of comfort, but don't try to impose your views onto others as it doesn't work and leads to lots of societal problems and tensions. Likewise, don't deny obvious scientific evidence and facts just because you think it might be "too Western" and go against the Quran, because (1) it doesn't and (2) you make a fool of yourself and mislead others.

    Quote Originally Posted by AhmedGassama View Post
    In all civilizations, there are ups and downs.

    But when Muslims ruled the world, they spread justice and equity.
    And when European ruled the world, they spread oppression and injustice!
    I agree with your first statement, but your second seems a bit odd to me.
    When did Muslims or Europeans "rule" the world? Muslims ruled over Muslim countries and Europeans ruled over European countries. Sometimes they ruled well and relatively justly, and sometimes they didn't.

  4. #83
    IB Oldskool Muhammad's Avatar
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    Re: PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix


    Quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere View Post
    The problem is that there is now a worrying trend in the Muslim world with so-called imams preaching hate and anti-science messages that are unacceptable. It is leading to a lot of unnecessary tensions and chaos in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shias, for instance. This is a rather recent trend, but it is there and it is not getting better.
    From one PhD dissertation which has gained popularity on various websites, you are now talking about a 'worrying trend' in the Muslim world and linking this to the chaos in the Middle East? If you knew anything about the Middle East, you would know it has very little to do with supposed anti-science messages and more about political turmoil and socio-economic challenges. Before its 2011 revolution, Tunisia's spending on research and development had been steadily climbing since 2000, according to UNESCO's Science Report. According to the same report, places like Qatar and Saudi Arabia have 'seen phenomenal growth in the volume of scientific publications over the past decade.'

    I just advocate for moderation in the sense that everyone can practice Islam to his or her level of comfort, but don't try to impose your views onto others as it doesn't work and leads to lots of societal problems and tensions.
    What does the dissertation have to do with imposing views onto others?

    Likewise, don't deny obvious scientific evidence and facts just because you think it might be "too Western" and go against the Quran,
    I asked you this earlier but you didn't answer. Who has mentioned the Qur'an as a reason to reject scientific knowledge?

    You are making numerous generalisations and conclusions from one piece of news. As Futuwwa pointed out above, you have no interest in this issue other than forwarding your own agenda-driven narrative.

    If you really have an interest in science in the Muslim world, why don't you broaden your search? In Tunisia itself, there is Mourad Zghal, a professor at the Engineering School of Communication of Tunis, who has joined the ranks of the world's most prominent optics scientists: he has been named a Fellow of SPIE, the international society for optics and photonics. His mentor, Zohra Ben Lakhdar, was herself a recipient of the prestigious 2005 L'Oreal-UNESCO award for Women in Science.

    Students from marginalized areas of Tunisia are finding a way to solve social problems and even to curb violence by using digital tools. [source]

    The Youth Science Association of Tunisia (AJST) , is a Tunisian association that has set targets for the popularization of science, the dissemination of scientific culture among young people and the organization of various scientific camps.

    Looking elsewhere in the Muslim world, here are 10 Malaysian Scientists Whose Research Is Making The World A Better Place.

    Below are further examples:


    Genetics:


    Medicine:



    Mathematics:

    • An Iranian mathematician became the first ever female winner of the celebrated Fields Medal. In a landmark hailed as "long overdue", Prof Maryam Mirzakhani was recognized for her work on complex geometry.
    • Kazakhstani Muslim scientist proves the existence of a solution to Navier Stokes Equation which is deemed one of the hardest in the world.

    Engineering:


    Education:
    According to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), four Muslim countries were ranked in the top 20 destinations all over the world for international students.

    Space:

    • The European space probes Rosetta and Philae didn't only have Egyptian names to commemorate the Egyptian Civilization’s contributions to humanity, but four Egyptian scientists have also worked in this historic space mission.
    • Egyptian students were ranked internationally among the top 20 teams of space engineering youth groups that participated at the University Rover Challenge (URC), in USA. In 2016, Bangladesh and Egypt are among the teams advancing to the semi-finals.
    • A young female Kazakh inventor Nazifa Baktybayeva has been working on a real in-orbit satellite that will allow Kazakhstani students to conduct research based on materials obtained from space. This invention wasn't Nazifa's first one as in 2012 she created a model of a Venusian spacecraft that was fabricated using parts of her own old computer, headphones, a DVD disk, an umbrella and even a hanger and she calculated the craft's trajectory.




    In addition, here is a list of 14 exciting and celebrated nanotechnologists from the Muslim world:

    1. Dr. Mostefa El-Sayed [Nano-scale Scientist], Regents’ Professor and Julius Brown Chair, Georgia Institute of Technology, Zewail Prize, #17 on Thomson Reuters, Top 100 Chemists of the Decade
    2. Dr. Ibrahim Elfadel [Designer of Nano-scale Tools], Professor, Masdar Institute, Winner of Six Invention Achievement Awards, an IBM Outstanding Technical Achievement Award and a Research Division Award
    3. Dr. Muhammad Al-Sayah [Supra-molecular Chemist], Professor, American University of Sharjah and winner of Comstech Award
    4. Prof. Ali Khademhosseini [Biologically inspired Engineer], Assoc. Prof., Harvard Medical School, President Obama’s Early Career Award
    5. Dr. AbdolReza Simchi [Nanostructures & Biomaterials], Assoc. Prof., Sharif University, Khwarzimi International Award
    6. Munir Nayfeh [Quantum Nanotechnologist], Professor, University of Illinois (UIUC), Award for Single Atom Detection
    7. Sharifah Bee Abd Hamid [Catalyst and nanomaterials], Deputy Vice Chancellor, University of Malaysia
    8. Dr. Aghil Yousefi Koma [Designer of Micro-vehicles], Professor, University of Tehran
    9. Resit Turan [The Solarizer], Director, Center for Solar Energy, Research & Applications, Metu, Turkey
    10. Muhammad Mustafa Hussain [Integrated nanotechnologist], Associate Professor, King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST), Thuwal, Saudi Arabia
    11. Halimaton Hamdan [Synthesizer of Nanostructures], Director, National Nanotechnology Directorate, Mosti, Malaysia
    12. Prof. Uda Hashim, Director [Micro-electronic Systems Engineer], Institute of Nano Electronic Engg, Malaysia
    13. Dr. Irfan S. Ahmed [Bionanotechnologist], Executive Director, Center for Nanoscale Science and Technology, University of Illinois (UIUC)
    14. Prof. Ali Eftekhari [Electrochemist & Nanoscientist], Avicenna Institute of Technology (USA)


    List from: http://muslim-science.com/14-most-ex...-muslim-world/


    In terms of the future, there are grassroots efforts across the Muslim world to stimulate curiosity about science among students of all ages, operating without much government support. Eminent international experts have called for comprehensive reforms to universities of the Muslim World seeking to transform societies though scientific excellence.

    Let's not become blinded by one PhD dissertation and use that to make sweeping generalisations about trends in the Muslim world.
    3 | Likes noraina, Eric H, AhmedGassama liked this post
    PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix wel




  5. #84
    IB Oldtimer Futuwwa's Avatar
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    Re: PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix


    The only reason why any random smartass secularist internet warrior has heard about this is because Muslims, in Tunisia and beyond, raised hell about it. If this incident had been business as usual in a Muslim university, nobody would ever have heard about it.
    2 | Likes noraina, Zafran liked this post

  6. #85
    * Tawakkul * noraina's Avatar
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    Re: PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix


    Quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere View Post
    Europeans are certainly no better (or worse) than Muslims. The bloodshed caused by the Europeans during the modern age was primarily due to 2 devastating ideologies: Nazism and Communism. Europeans have since gotten themselves rid of these stupid ideologies (there are a few exceptions, like
    @Karl
    who seems to still believe that Nazism is ok). The problem is that there is now a worrying trend in the Muslim world with so-called imams preaching hate and anti-science messages that are unacceptable. It is leading to a lot of unnecessary tensions and chaos in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shias, for instance. This is a rather recent trend, but it is there and it is not getting better. I just advocate for moderation in the sense that everyone can practice Islam to his or her level of comfort, but don't try to impose your views onto others as it doesn't work and leads to lots of societal problems and tensions. Likewise, don't deny obvious scientific evidence and facts just because you think it might be "too Western" and go against the Quran, because (1) it doesn't and (2) you make a fool of yourself and mislead others.
    As a Muslim, I haven't noticed any such trend. In fact, this is the first time I have come across any Muslim advocating flat earth theory. This has nothing to do with their religion, but their personal opinions. I've seen people of all kinds of backgrounds coming out with the most nonsensical pseudo-scientific theories but that doesn't mean I apply it to a whole demographic.

    It seems somewhat ironic you are saying you support a science based on objective evidence and facts and yet most of what you have said here is extremely subjective and lies in personal opinion and bias.

    I enjoy a good old debate on the merits of flat earth theory - but tbh the purpose of this thread seems to be using *one* thesis written by *one* Muslim to bash Islam for being anti-scientific. And this thesis has been rejected by the vast majority of the scientific community and I don't see the government of Tunisia imposing flat-earth theory on anyone.

    And, the conflict in the Middle East has nothing to do with being anti-science - it is much more than that.
    1 | Likes sister herb liked this post
    PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix wel

    Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, Thabbit Qalbi Ala Deenik
    Oh turner of the Hearts make my heart firm on Your Deen







  7. #86
    Full Member AhmedGassama's Avatar
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    Re: PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix


    Quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere View Post
    Europeans are certainly no better (or worse) than Muslims. The bloodshed caused by the Europeans during the modern age was primarily due to 2 devastating ideologies: Nazism and Communism. Europeans have since gotten themselves rid of these stupid ideologies (there are a few exceptions, like @Karl who seems to still believe that Nazism is ok). The problem is that there is now a worrying trend in the Muslim world with so-called imams preaching hate and anti-science messages that are unacceptable. It is leading to a lot of unnecessary tensions and chaos in the Middle East between Sunnis and Shias, for instance. This is a rather recent trend, but it is there and it is not getting better. I just advocate for moderation in the sense that everyone can practice Islam to his or her level of comfort, but don't try to impose your views onto others as it doesn't work and leads to lots of societal problems and tensions. Likewise, don't deny obvious scientific evidence and facts just because you think it might be "too Western" and go against the Quran, because (1) it doesn't and (2) you make a fool of yourself and mislead others.



    I agree with your first statement, but your second seems a bit odd to me.
    When did Muslims or Europeans "rule" the world? Muslims ruled over Muslim countries and Europeans ruled over European countries. Sometimes they ruled well and relatively justly, and sometimes they didn't.
    Muslims ruled the world and they spread justice, and made the Europeans pay for the Jizya! Because they tried to Attack the Muslim countries and to rape their women...!

    As for the modern era, you stated Communism and Nazism (you called them a few exception, it is like they didn't caused any damage) but what about colonisalim, manifest destiny, white man's burden, Zionism (supported by the west) and so on and on and on... and even Democracy which was used by the west to destroy our countries in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria...

    You also stated the Imams who are preaching hate, everyone knows in the world who is financing these idiots with money and weapon! Isn't it Europan ? Don't you know that 95% of the victims of terrorism are Muslims ? It is evident that you, Europeans have Something to do with that!

    Europeans are a disease! Without you, the world will live in Peace!

    So the first thing that you need to do is to stick to your rotten ideologies, and stop speaking about the Quran because it is Something that you can't even understand!
    PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix wel

    THIS NATION WILL KNOW WHO WILL DEFEND IT WITH HIS TONGUE AND WHO WILL FIGHT FOR IT WITH THE GLORIOUS SWORD !!!

  8. #87
    Full Member fromelsewhere's Avatar
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    Re: PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix


    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    From one PhD dissertation which has gained popularity on various websites, you are now talking about a 'worrying trend' in the Muslim world and linking this to the chaos in the Middle East? If you knew anything about the Middle East, you would know it has very little to do with supposed anti-science messages and more about political turmoil and socio-economic challenges.

    What does the dissertation have to do with imposing views onto others?

    Let's not become blinded by one PhD dissertation and use that to make sweeping generalisations about trends in the Muslim world.
    So you want more examples? Ok. First, if I talk about the theory of evolution instead of "flat earth", I am sure that a lot of people on here will be against it. I don't want to make this thread about "evolution", but it remains that many people are against evolution simply because they think it contradicts with the notion of a perfect Creator. Read this column piece from The Guardian on the subject (2011): https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ence-evolution

    Then, here is a recent example (Feb 2015) of a Saudi cleric spewing nonsense: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/vari...ary-Earth.html

    The late Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baaz also asserted that the Earth was stationary.

    There are many more examples like this. It is just a minority of people who think this way, but still, there are influential people in the Muslim world who seem to be quite anti-science.

  9. #88
    Full Member fromelsewhere's Avatar
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    Re: PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix


    Quote Originally Posted by AhmedGassama View Post
    It is evident that you, Europeans have Something to do with that!
    Note: I am not a " white Westerner".
    Last edited by fromelsewhere; 2 Hours Ago at 03:17 AM.

 

 
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