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Thread: Chinese QiGong

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    Chinese QiGong (OP)



    I've practiced qigong for almost 3 years and have had numerous health benefits from it. I was wondering what's the stance on qigong amongst scholars? I've searched but haven't found any.

    The reason it's sketchy is because it's link with 'energy/qi', which some people link with the 'occult/magick.'

    Recent studies are varied and don't really pan out, but personal experience for me has.

    For example I always feelt tingling going through my body, and if I get injured (from martial arts) those areas I feel more 'energy' and it heals faster.

    I'm not sure if qigong is just a placebo and the tingling is a mind made illusion or is it a latent human ability to feel our electric current if we choose to develop said ability?

    This goes deeper because if we can sense our own electric currents, can we sense others? Like when you walk into a room and 'feel the tension?'

    And if we have a good qi can we try and use our qi to heal other people? This was my goal before I found Islam, was to be an alternative spiritual healer, but now I have to question how valid and legal what my old intentions were.

    If it could be scientifically proven that we have qi, is it permissable to practice qi gong? And what about 'healing?' My theory before and after I reverted remains the same, that either way it's God's will thats determines whether a person will be healed, and my 'qi' is the catalyst, accompanied by massage, natural remedies, and prayer.

    One of the reasons I like natural medicine is because I grew up in America and the pharmacies prescribe 'drugs' that block the pain instead of go to the root to cure it, as well as the insurance policies. I knew of a kid who got shot and was denied treatment because of insurance papers, and crawled and limped to the next hospital because the first refused an ambulence, and died near the second hospital.

    Sorry for the long post,

    And what about yoga? I used to study/research all alternative and new age things, I think most of them are placebo's or the use of jinns. But yoga is kind of like a physical sceince, although if you believe in the yogic belief system it would be shirk or polytheism. But if you practice knowing it's good for your phsyical and electric body than I don't see whats wrong with that.

    Oh sorry one more question, in new age material people say we have 'multiple bodies,' like an emotional body, energy body, soul body, etc... different beliefs have different names and so on.

    What would be scholars opinions about these things? Ok this is going off topic now... :X Thanks in advance, I want to clear all these questions up once and for all. islamqa.com never replied I might have sounded like some new age wiccan to them or something.

    Oh and I have 123 posts

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Report bad ads?

    Then you have a short blood supply on how ur laying down bud.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Woa this guy has exactly almost by point what i have been through, except i have been through worse in a bad way not proud of that.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong


    This is what I feared, although hard to believe, I feel like theirs an alien in my body that I want to get out... how am I supposed to get it out?

    Thanks for the information. It's quite a shock to find out everything I've been doing to try and help people is all satanic... The only reason I started was to heal people, and not do it the way of prescription drugs. Those drugs that are so popular in America are based on principles of money rather than trying to actually help people. Such is the case these days but not throughout history.

    How does healing occur than? If you have an ailment in Americait's either alternative therapy (Jinn) or perscription medicine, which isn't as bad but also does a lot of harm.

    Many of the drugs are just that, drugs. They literally get you high, and most of the time just supress the illness so you have to buy more medicine.


    So what then should people do to heal themselves?
    Last edited by sargon; 03-21-2006 at 10:35 AM.
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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    I have knots that clear after time, I thought it wasjust an energy blockage that needed to be cleared. I don't feel any touches but I have had sleep paralysis before and some other symptoms that are talked about.

    It's just so hard to believe that qigong is a Jinn... It's supposed to be healthy for you!

    I also did internal martial arts, and external for the last six years. There were some famous Muslim martial artists in China as well.

    Thanks again for the website. Are you Muslim by the way?

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Sargon give me your contact on any messanger. I will help you clear it out. It took me a good 3 years. And i still feel the effects.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    The thing that make me wonder about that website is that some of it's historical facts are off. For example animal forms in Chinese Martial Arts weren't developed from Shamanism. They saw animals could fight and went from there, copying them.

    The forms were used as exercises, and towns, villages, and armies were made up of soldiers that were trained in the art of combat, simply combat. Anything to aid the combat would be thrown in, swords, spears, etc...

    It grew from catching thieves and punishing them. A police officer or enforcer would have to know how to fight, and usually the popular fighting families of an area would have control or 'relations' in the city because they had power and knowledge of combat.

    And all the bad side effects of qi gong and yoga are vastly outweighed by the good side effects. In some isolated cases you have people that go insane temporarily, or in extreme cases die. This is the same with many physical exercises/activities, there are accidents.

    But there are millions of people that have good effects, and compared to the minority of people that have some bad things happen because of qi gong, it's a very small percent.

    In this particular case he was going to a Buddha statue and trying to 'get energy' from it. Of course Jinns would be residing within the Buddhist statue if people were doing that.

    I was having a conversation with a brother that does martial arts and he's more knowledgable than me, and he threw that whole theory of 'qi = jinn' out the window saying it's garbage.

    Right now I'm not exactly sure but the website has some convincing factors to it, for example the exorcism.

    The site says Jinn feed off the food in your stomach, this makes no sense however because my old coach knew a few guys here in China that would not eat for long periods of time, and do 6 hours of qi gong a day. They would see who could fast longer. The longest time was more than a month... so all the Jinn would've starved....

    Another thing is that there were profound Muslim martial artists...

    And finally, the website also says that the Jinn can give us views into their world, but some scholars say we cannot see the unseen, and some people say we can see the unseen but not all of it.

    I and many friends of mine have 'seen' things since we were children. There are lots of little kids in my old schools that can see energy around people. Are they all possesed by Jinn?

    So when I look at it all together, the website doesn't make a lot of sense. Half of the pages are missing, the links are broken, and the author is anonymous. If he can't quote from more than one Islamic source, and doesn't even list a hadith, just one Islamic book I've never read, then I'm not going to be hasty and freak out looking for an exorcist.

    I'm glad I found that site, it was convincing at first but the more I thought about it the more I realized he took elements from different eras and areas, and added them together into a theory of Martial Arts = jinn.

    Oh I forgot to add that Qigong is iffy but not martial arts isn't.

    Does Qigong really have roots in Buddhism?

    Before the Han Dynasty (Before 206 B.C.)
    The Yi Jing - Book of Changes1122 B.C.) was probably the first Chinese book related to Qi. It introduced the concept of the three natural energies or powers (San Cai): Tian (Heaven), Di (Earth), and Ren (Man). Studying the relationship of these three natural powers was the first step in the development of Qigong.

    In 1766-1154 B.C. (the Shang dynasty), the Chinese capital was located in today's An Yang in Henan province. An archeological dig there at a late Shang dynasty buIial ground called Yin Xu discovered more than 160,000 pieces of turtle shell and animal bone which were covered with written characters. This writing, called "Jia Gu Wen" (Oracle-Bone Scripture), was the earliest evidence of the Chinese use of the written word. Most of the infonnation recorded was of a religious nature. There was no mention of acupuncture or other medical knowledge, even though it was recorded in the Nei Jing that during the reign of the Yellow emperor (2690-2590 B.C.) Bian Shi (stone probes) were already being used to adjust people's Qi circulation.

    During the Zhou dynasty (1122-934 B.C.), Lao Zi (Li Er) mentioned certain breathing techniques in his classic "Dao De Jing" (or Tao Te Ching) (Classic on the Virtue of the Dao). He stressed that the way to obtain health was to "concentrate on Qi and achieve softness" (Zhuan Qi Zhi Rou).(*l) Later, Shi Ji - Historical Record in the Spring and Autumn and Warring States Periods (770-221 B.C.) also described more complete methods of breath training.

    About 300 B.C. the Daoist philosopher Zhuang Zi described the relationship between health and the breath in his book Nan Hua Jing. "The men of old breathed clear down to their heels."

    This was not merely a figure of speech, and confirms that a breathing method for Qi circulation was being used by some Daoists at that time. During the Qin and Han dynasties (221 B.C.-220 A.D.) there are several medical references to Qigong in the literature, such as the "Nan Jing" (Classic on Disorders) by the famous physician Bian Que, which describes using the breathing to increase Qi circulation. "Jin Kui Yao Lue" (Prescriptions from the Golden Chamber) by Zhang Zhong-Jing discusses the use of breathing and acupuncture to maintain good Qi flow.

    Zhou Yi Can Tong Qi - A Comparative Study of the Zhou (dynasty) Book of Changes by Wei Bo-Yang explains the relationship of human beings to nature's forces and Qi. It can be seen from this list that up to this time, almost all of the Qigong publications were written by scholars such as Lao Zi and Zhuang Zi, or physicians such as Bian Que and Wei Bo-Yang.

    There are four periods of Qigong history. The second period is when it was influenced by Buddhism from India, however the FIRST period dates as far back as 2000 BC!!! This means that QiGong has absolutely nothing to do with Buddhism, besides the fact that Buddhists also tapped into the same thing because they were meditating and what not. Combined it created a strong religous practice that Buddhists follow.

    But the underlying sceince and primal energies have nothing to do with Buddhism, and the cultivation and awareness of such things dates way back in China before a single Buddhist stepped foot in the land.


    *** Also interesting to note is that there were religous scriptures in China found on turtle shells
    Last edited by sargon; 03-22-2006 at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    KEY DATES OF THE HISTORY OF THE QI GONG



    1) Before HAN dynasty, up to -206

    Appearance of YI KING (the book of the transfers) and of the concept of 3 energies : sky /man /earth.

    2 types of training also appear at this period, Confucianist and Taoist, of which the goal is uprightness, to preserve a good health and to increase longevity. At the origin, in the first forms of Chinese acupuncture, the doctors used stone punches, then of bone and bamboo. Then came the metal needles (bronze).

    2) -206 to +502

    Development of 3 schools of Qi Gong

    - Buddhist
    - Hindouist
    - Taoist

    The goal of the Qi Gong is then to make the man escape the cycle of reincarnations.
    A doctor of the 3rd century, Hua Tuo, affirms that one can work the Qi thanks to the thought. He formalizes the movements in order to allow a better work of energy.

    3) 502 to 1911

    Work concerning the Qi develops and reaches a very high level.
    The Qi Gong adapts itself to the practice of the Martial Arts, in particular thanks to the practice which is made by it in the Temple of Shaolin.
    Between 585 to 910 the massages and phytotherapy appear .
    Around 1106, a doctor named WANG WEI YI creates the copper mannequin or "Bronze Man ", natural size, in order to visualize the points of acupuncture. He looks after the emperor, cures him and this one enables him to develop his art.
    Between 1102/1106, he works on tortured victims whom he dissects alive, helped by secretaries and draughtsmen, this in order to increase his knowledge. It is around 1068 -1086 that, for the first time, one teaches acupuncture at the university.
    WANG WEI YI wrote the " Illustrated handbook of the points of acupuncture and moxibustion according to the bronze statue ".

    At the beginning of the twelfth century, General YUE FEI (dynasty of the SONG of the south) creates XING YI QUAN.
    He also develops the series of exercises of health called " the 8 parts of brocade " or BA DUAN JIN.
    He insists on the fact that thought (YI) must lead the breath of life (QI) and the movements.
    Around 1279, CHANG SAN FENG, a hermit taoist, creates the TAIJIQUAN.
    Under the MING dynasty (1368-1644), doctor YANG CHI CHOU gathers all that relates to acupuncture and matches up the divergent sights on the subject.
    At the 18th century : creation of the BAGUAQUAN, an other martial arts which uses the principles of the Qi Gong.

    4) THE QI GONG IN CHINA TODAY

    The QI GONG must make it possible to the man to be put in resonance with nature. If that is difficult in our Western societies, that also became in the modern Chinese societies.
    Nowadays, the Chinese, Japanese and extreme Eastern cultures in general carry out many exchanges.
    The vision of propagation of the Qi Gong since the advent of the People's Republic of China is more to increase the health of the people than to obtain an opening on the universe, a more spiritual vision.

    HOW MANY FORMS OF QI GONG ARE THERE ?

    There are 5 schools :

    1) Medicinal School :
    its goal is to reinforce health, prophylactic, and if required to look after diseases.

    2) Confucianist School :
    Created by Confucius at the 6th century before our era and developed by Mancius at the 4th century before our era.

    This school is characterized by three directions of work:
    - knowledge
    - morality
    - uprightness

    3) Bouddhic school :
    - teaching rests on the mental drive and the release.
    - the SAMADHI school which says that " everything is only illusion "
    - the CHAN school (Japanese ZEN), which aims at the purification of the person.

    4) Taoist school :
    preaches not-to act, " WU WEI ". It has for goal to increase longevity and of living in harmony with nature.

    5) The martial arts school :
    aims to the maintenance and the improvement of health, then if required to use this strength for combat.

    Source: http://kungfuyiquan.free.fr/sitee/eqghist.html

    *** So as you can see it was actually Buddhists who came and adopted the practice into their religion, as a way to overcome what they call re-incarnation. The other school were developed in that era as well, without the same beliefs of hte Buddhists.

    And I find it hard to believe that my old QiGong doctor who ate no sweets, ate no meat, and was one of the nicest, strongest, healthiest people I met, is 'possesed by a Jinn.'

    But... I'll always leave room for me to be wrong, but right now that website looks even weaker. It says qigong came from Buddhism. wrong. It says martial arts comes from Shamanism. wrong.

    Now summoning Jinn and casting circles in magick is a completely different subject, and if you did that I would say maybe you are being influenced. It's not recommended to apprentice magicians anyways to summon for at least two years before you 'build up your magical forces.' The problem is first it's shirk, and not lawful, and the second problem is kids go on the internet and read some 'cool' Wiccan spell which is an ancient evil form of black magick, and they don't even know that they've just attracted a whole boatload of problems into their life.

    Stuff like that is like opening a door to the unseen, we're usually protected, but if you read ancient things, think too much about them, stay in negative places too long, you're bound to attract some negative energies IE Jinn.

    I leave with one question:
    - If I save someone's life using my martial arts, is that a jinn inside my helping or an angel? I think if I go fight in jihad and I'm using all my heart to run just a little longer or fight a little harder, it's not a jinn that's stimulating you it's qi.

    Salaamz

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    whats wrong with believing in Chi ?? its Air, and its what we breathe..

    And we are using our Chi to channel into our bodies and bones to either heal ourselves by the Grace of God, or protect ourselves using Iron Shirt / Palm techniques... etc

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Brother,

    I hope you read the previous posts. Have you done any iron palm, iron body training? I have and so far it has nothing to do with chi. The chi area comes later on. There is no meditation or chi required for iron palm however iron body i believe requires a few techniques. For instance, hung gar requires Iron wire form aka tiet sin kuen. BUT, if the form was performed incorrectly you could kill yourself or harm yourself severly.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    When you go jogging, or play basketball, that's not exactly for the worship of Allah is it? By meditating you can solve problems, it's not only used for qi. It can also be known as 'deep thinking,' and it has proven health benefits.

    Now If I had an exorcist around I would check it out but I live in China and I doubt there are many here.

    There are many other ways to build up qi besides meditation as well, and meditating on Allah's attributes is still meditating. It's just that it has a better function I guess when you use it like that.

    Dua is a great way to heal people but can you open a dua clinic? Why do we have so many hospitals and clinics if all we need is dua? It has to be paired with some other catalyst.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Yes someone understands Sargon perfectly put!

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Alpha beta just curious what do you know or have been taught?

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Some of those symptoms are normal. However, I couldn't help but notice your email was SSJgoku or some DBZ name. If you're doing 'radki,' and not the traditional qigong techniques it's been proven unhealthy and will only create unbalances which could lead to knots, headaches, etc...

    I shouldn't believe that website if it "got a few facts" wrong should I? The whole thing is based on qigong comes from buddhism or yoga which is hinduism.

    Neither are true.

    And what that guy did was suck energy from a Buddhist statue, which we all know is an idol. I could be wrong but I'm not going to freak out about it that's all. I pray everyday to find out if I'm being haunted by Jinn but I don't think that's the case. If the Jinn had control how can I still pray and perform Islam?

    I asked for a sign/insight if it was jinn instead of just natural qi and haven't received one yet so I'll wait and see what happens.

    I think that you've been doing qigong incorrectly and that resulted in some weird things.

    My thoughts:
    - It's good to do it in nature, and you can interact with a trees energy.
    - Jinn can live in trees.
    - Jinn are made of fire, maybe a 'spiritual fire' that feel like qi?
    - There are *very few* isloated cases of qigong deaths/psychosis.

    Ok now for the good:
    - If it's not jinn, then trees, and everything else has qi as well.
    - While Jinn can live in trees, Jinn can also possess humans, but it doesn't mean that the qi from a tree or the qi from a human is the jinn.
    - If the Jinn are made from a spiritual fire, it isn't actually hot? It interacts with this realm through the interface of qi perhaps, but that doesn't mean we all don't have our own personal 'space' of qi.
    - Besides the isolated incidents of bad things happening, their are plenty of healthy people, qigong masseuses, and martial artists that are perfectly fine.

    What's interesting:
    The exorcism story. It was actually the only convincing thing, but what I've heard of Jinn possession is that they can pretty much do it whenever they want. They have that ability to oppress. Why do they need to build up 30 years of qi before possession? Aren't there normal Arab people in the Middle East that get possessed but never do qigong?

    And if they feed off the food in your stomach how do my teachers friends fast for so long? (Not that it's natural or good but they do it.)

    If I see an exorcist I'll ask him to take a look, definately. However the chances of any really religous people in China are slim because the governement is so against... everything. They can't even be real atheists (free thinkers). They basically submit to their country, partially because the government has control of [i]everything[i]. Hard to blame anyone though because who knows what I would be if I grew up here.

    Anyways think about it, is qi really Jinn's or not? Review all the facts I mentioned.

    There's something in Islam I don't know what it's called but we're all supposed to decide things together, like a community. So I'd appreciate all your opinions about all the facts. Then we can all make a good decision together for a better society. If qigong is safe and it can heal people than I'm for it. If it's Jinn well than I'll find something else (I refuse to do medicine the modern way).

    P.S. Modern medicine would be good if it wasn't all about money. For example anti-biotics are last resort, when yo ucan't stimulate the body with natural remedies to fix itself. If you keep taking anti-biotics when it's not needed, your body never gets stronger, which is a blessing of being sick. In cases of surgery and emergency care modern medicine and some drugs are good, but now it's being raped for money, like most things these days.

    Makes me sad, really.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Oh Please dont tell me about Radki, I was one of the few that started those websites Please if the knowledge of anyone from this board comes from Radki Just dont bother posting on this thread. Im not directing this to sargon or to those that practice and know the full measures. But directly to those who think they know ki/chi from the internet

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19 View Post
    Oh Please dont tell me about Radki, I was one of the few that started those websites Please if the knowledge of anyone from this board comes from Radki Just dont bother posting on this thread. Im not directing this to sargon or to those that practice and know the full measures. But directly to those who think they know ki/chi from the internet
    I assume you're familiar with Veritas and 'Underground Society' then? I was doing traditional qigong from a very good book, which led me to veritas somehow I can't remember. Anyways my whole journey started when my ex-gf (before I was muslim) said she had ghosts in her house. I felt like I could 'will' it away (I never did qigong or anything at this point) but it didn't work.

    That's when I went online and started looking into spirituality, occult, ghosts, basically anything metaphysical or supernatural. I became obssesed and decided I lived in the matrix, went through all kinds of conscpiracies, and finally right when I was about to start doing magick (lack of anything better to do spiritually, as well as it requires almost as much discipline as Islam), then I found Islam, masha Allah.

    I never knew magick was such a horrible evil, I thought if I did 'white' magick I could help the world.

    Anyways there are tons of kids (I'm one of em) that go online and get into black magick stuff without knowing what exactly they're doing. I just fooled around for 4 years making energy balls and messing with jinn (whom I thought were ghosts I was banishing.) It was all a prideego trip, which so many kids do today.

    It's not fair to them because they were never properly educated. If I hadn't met a muslim guy in China who was also from Chicago, I'd probably never have came to this site, or became Muslim.

    Anyways mahadisoldier, if you were into radki that would also explain your weird symptoms.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Veritas and Underground Society? I was being Taught By Prophecy you might know him, I left that place total Bunch of brainwashing people with little idiots wow. Ill never go back there i was involved in that heavily for years.

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    sargon's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Wow that's quite a coincedence, I do know him, not very well though. He is a part of Veritas, which is a group focusing on metaphysics and spirituality, that includes qigong and martial arts.

    That's weird

    So how did you become Muslim after learning magick for so long? I was about to start and then became Muslim...

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    I was a born Muslim, then i got involved in wingmakers, daoism then kaballah. Ive been around the block. Prophecy is the one who started the underground site which led to veritas. majority of the people in veritas are retarded. So i dont bother. They dont know nothing about Qi gong and martial arts period. They just go on websites from videos and say stupid things. The adults are worse they get little kids to feed on em like OH YOU GOT POWERS! FOLLOW ME!.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    Quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19 View Post
    I was a born Muslim, then i got involved in wingmakers, daoism then kaballah. Ive been around the block. Prophecy is the one who started the underground site which led to veritas. majority of the people in veritas are retarded. So i dont bother. They dont know nothing about Qi gong and martial arts period. They just go on websites from videos and say stupid things. The adults are worse they get little kids to feed on em like OH YOU GOT POWERS! FOLLOW ME!.
    Actually there are some very knowledgable people there now. Yes the website is full of young children but there are quite a few prominent martial artisits and dedicated yoga or qigong practicioners.

    Well maybe before they're methods were different but I can understadn where you're coming from, being from Wingmakers... I mean that stuff is like fantasy type stuff, but they have some authentic qigong techniques.

    That website used to be the only place to go to get away from the retardedness of new age culture. All other websites were about talking to angels and channeling the Sun God or something, Veritas kept it strictly real and no 'fluff,' however their two sides to the same coin of 'magick.'

    Well I guess this thread is pretty dead unless a scholar can come and clear stuff up.

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    Re: Chinese QiGong

    From IslamToday:


    Dear questioner:



    Al-Sal�m `Alaykum wa Rahmah Allah wa Barak�tuh.



    As for the scientific claims concerning bodily energy and its role in healing, these are claims that must be reviewed scientifically.



    However, even if there is a legitimate scientific basis for those claims, the practice of qi gong as it stands is clearly not unadulterated science. It is definitely mixed up with occult and quasi-religious elements. Some forms of qi gong are clearly akin to religion. Therefore, we recommend that Muslims be extremely wary regarding this and other similar practices.



    Also, the idea of external qi is something that should be approached with the utmost caution.



    If there are medical professionals and knowledgeable Muslims in a position to objectively determine the real medical and scientific merits to be found in qi qong and other traditional practices, this would be laudable research. However, a Muslim cannot simply enter into a discipline like qi qong and simply accept it as it presently stands.



    And Allah knows best.



    Fatw� Department Research Committee of IslamToday chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahh�b al-Turayr�
    Chinese QiGong

    "Lo! the Hour is surely coming, there is no doubt thereof; yet most of mankind believe not." (Al-Ghafir:59)


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