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    Mawlid. Where is your intellect? (OP)


    A reminder

    https://youtu.be/unBsGlfspVk

    Please don't comment if you didnt watch the video.

    Yaa Ummah of Muhammad! Where are your Intellects? - Shaykh Abu Usamah - YouTube
    Please donate to Green Lane Masjid using the link below or the link on the right so we can keep these videos free and also to help us to produce even more vi......
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    Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    The sunnah is like the ark of Noah, whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned.~ Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him)

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    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Umar (ra) establishing the regular congregational taraweeh shows how something not done in Prophets (saw) time can accord to Quran and sunnah too if there is a need for it in later times and it is not something reprehensible, as the hadith prohibiting bidah says 'someone who innovates something reprehensible in this deen' (other hadiths omitting the word 'reprehensible' needs to be put into context with the one that doesn't omit it)...

    Therefore if a mujtahid Scholar opines there is a need for an act of worship to be established thats a good innovation then that's allowed in Islam and if such an act gets the support of the majority of the fuqaha then that further becomes a proof that it is accepted by Allah too as the Quran and hadith says the consensus can never be wrong

    See one of my links and posted articles above, it explains how good innovations does not contradict the hadith 'every bidah is in jahannum' (or words to that effect), it explains it using the different definitions of the word 'bidah'.

    Narrated 'Urwa: That he was informed by 'Aisha, "Allah's Apostle went out in the middle of the night and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah's Apostle came out and the people prayed behind him. On the fourth night the Mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accommodate them, but the Prophet came out (only) for the morning prayer. When the morning prayer was finished he recited Tashah-hud and (addressing the people) said, "Amma ba'du, your presence was not hidden from me but I was afraid lest the night prayer (Qiyam) should be enjoined on you and you might not be able to carry it on." So, Allah's Apostle died and the situation remained like that (i.e. people prayed individually). " [Sahih Bukhari Hadith#2012]
    Note the followings:

    1. It was Prophet Muhammad PBUH who himself led that Taraweeh prayer, so it is not an innovation.
    2. Prophet Muhammad PBUH read that Taraweeh prayer in the middle of the night.
    3. Qiam al lail and Taraweeh prayer is the same. This is further understood by the fact that Imam Bukhari mentioned these hadiths under the heading of praying at "night prayer"during Ramadan. It will be worth to read the next hadith which I will quote to further understand this point.
    4. T
      he reason Prophet PBUH did not lead the Taraweeh prayer (Qiyam al Lalil) is because he was afraid that it may become a burden on his Ummah. So it is not true that leaving taraweeh is a sinful act as you stated in your previous post.
    5. People were still praying Taraweeh individually.


    Now let's go to the next hadith:

    Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night. [Sahih Bukhari , Hadith#2010]
    Now let's note few things in the above hadith:
    1. People were praying individually as well as in small group in one mosque. So what Umar (RA) did is gathered them behind one Imam just like they used to pray behind one Imam at the time of Prophet PBUH. So if people want to pray in the mosque then they should be praying in congregation. Why did Umar proposed to pray behind one Imam is because after Prophet PBUH's death no one can make it compulsory on Muslims to pray Taraweeh. If someone still wants to pray in mosque then it is better to pray behind one Imam instead of praying in several group behind several Imams.
    2. It is better if someone prays at home in the last one third of the night than reading Taraweeh in the early part of the night.
    3. Did Umar(RA) prayed Taraweeh in congregation? No, as hadith clearly shows that he was not part of the congregation and instead he prayed at last one third of the night alone at his home.
    4. Umar (RA) said excellent Bidah in linguistic sense. It was not something new invented in the religion. Prophet PBUH prayed Taraweeh and so did companions of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. There is nothing new which Umar has invented.


    Now a days as most Muslims don't know entire Quran so people find it convenient to pray in congregation right after Isha. If someone instead prays in the last one third of the night then that is preferable but this is something your scholars will not tell you even though it is clearly stated in this hadith.

    I hope explanation above would help you to understand that what Umar (RA) did is not Bidah. Don't fall into committing a major sin just to defend your position and scholars. WAllahi none of your scholar know Islam better than Umar (RA). Prophet Muhammad PBUH said that if there was going to be any prophet after him then it would have been Umar (RA). Don't accuse of something you have little knowledge about.
    ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ……………………..………………… ………………………………………… …………...

    Finally, I will request you to look at the link of videos I gave in my previous post and judge by yourself if celebrating Mawlid is really good for the Ummah. I am copy/pasting links again. You don't have to see all the videos, just skim over few and you will know what I am talking about.

    https://youtu.be/gwBDB_iRRSw
    https://youtu.be/ZPh88eu9HDc
    https://youtu.be/Q-J8L2ynVfw
    https://youtu.be/R0M-eoZt9I4
    https://youtu.be/XVxrUZJTUXE
    https://youtu.be/tmoDEXtRpE4
    https://youtu.be/COvuH-2-xlE

    At least from what I have seen, it leads to all what is forbidden in Islam where as Taraweeh brings people closer to God.
    A Tree is knows by its fruit as they say.....
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 1 Week Ago at 11:26 PM.

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Note the followings:

    1. It was Prophet Muhammad PBUH who himself led that Taraweeh prayer, so it is not an innovation.
    2. Prophet Muhammad PBUH read that Taraweeh prayer in the middle of the night.
    3. Qiam al lail and Taraweeh prayer is the same. This is further understood by the fact that Imam Bukhari mentioned these hadiths under the heading of praying at "night prayer"during Ramadan. It will be worth to read the next hadith which I will quote to further understand this point.
    4. T
      he reason Prophet PBUH did not lead the Taraweeh prayer (Qiyam al Lalil) is because he was afraid that it may become a burden on his Ummah. So it is not true that leaving taraweeh is a sinful act as you stated in your previous post.
    5. People were still praying Taraweeh individually.


    Now let's go to the next hadith:


    Now let's note few things in the above hadith:
    1. People were praying individually as well as in small group in one mosque. So what Umar (RA) did is gathered them behind one Imam just like they used to pray behind one Imam at the time of Prophet PBUH. So if people want to pray in the mosque then they should be praying in congregation. Why did Umar proposed to pray behind one Imam is because after Prophet PBUH's death no one can make it compulsory on Muslims to pray Taraweeh. If someone still wants to pray in mosque then it is better to pray behind one Imam instead of praying in several group behind several Imams.
    2. It is better if someone prays at home in the last one third of the night than reading Taraweeh in the early part of the night.
    3. Did Umar(RA) prayed Taraweeh in congregation? No, as hadith clearly shows that he was not part of the congregation and instead he prayed at last one third of the night alone at his home.
    4. Umar (RA) said excellent Bidah in linguistic sense. It was not something new invented in the religion. Prophet PBUH prayed Taraweeh and so did companions of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. There is nothing new which Umar has invented.


    Now a days as most Muslims don't know entire Quran so people find it convenient to pray in congregation right after Isha. If someone instead prays in the last one third of the night then that is preferable but this is something your scholars will not tell you even though it is clearly stated in this hadith.

    I hope explanation above would help you to understand that what Umar (RA) did is not Bidah. Don't fall into committing a major sin just to defend your position and scholars. WAllahi none of your scholar know Islam better than Umar (RA). Prophet Muhammad PBUH said that if there was going to be any prophet after him then it would have been Umar (RA). Don't accuse of something you have little knowledge about.
    ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ………………………………………… ……………………..………………… ………………………………………… …………...

    Finally, I will request you to look at the link of videos I gave in my previous post and judge by yourself if celebrating Mawlid is really good for the Ummah. I am copy/pasting links again. You don't have to see all the videos, just skim over few and you will know what I am talking about.

    https://youtu.be/gwBDB_iRRSw
    https://youtu.be/ZPh88eu9HDc
    https://youtu.be/Q-J8L2ynVfw
    https://youtu.be/R0M-eoZt9I4
    https://youtu.be/XVxrUZJTUXE
    https://youtu.be/tmoDEXtRpE4
    https://youtu.be/COvuH-2-xlE

    At least from what I have seen, it leads to all what is forbidden in Islam where as Taraweeh brings people closer to God.
    A Tree is knows by its fruit as they say.....
    ....
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 6 Days Ago at 08:02 AM.

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    @HabibUrrehman

    Prophet saw never invited people to join him in taraweeh. When some sahaba saw him praying in Ramadan at night, they joined him, however when a large number of people would turn up to join him, the Prophet (saw) would not pray and would leave the masjid.

    Basically one group of ahlus sunnah Scholars (the Hanafi's opined that missing taraweeh without good reason or making a habit of missing it will be a sin, and that's because Umar (ra) established it as a stressed sunnah, I. E, to be performed with jamaat regularly in Ramadan. And this is a valid opinion

    Anyway brother, as I said we can carry on disagreeing till kingdom come so its best to agree to disagree and leave it at that

    PS. The crucial evidence for bidah hasana is not based on Umar (ra) starting of regular taraweeh jamaat. It is based on the definition of bidah and wordings of hadith.
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 6 Days Ago at 08:03 AM.

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    @HabibUrrehman

    Brother since you are interested in the evidences from our side, I don't know if you've read this but I'll post it up again in full as its a good comprehensive explanation:

    The word Bid’a (innovation) has two aspects to it, one being the linguistic definition, and the other, it’s meaning from a Shariah perspective.
    Linguistically Bid’a means introducing something new, regardless of whether it is connected to religious affairs or other worldly matters, and regardless of whether one practices it considering it to be part of Deen or otherwise.

    In the Shariah terminology, Bid’a means to introduce something in religion that was not done in the time of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), the rightly guided Khulafa (Allah be pleased with them all) and the early generations with the intention of gaining more reward, and despite being a need for it in the time of the Messenger of Allah and his Companions, it was not implemented verbally, practically, explicitly or implicitly. (Taken from Imam al-Barkawi’s al-Tariqa al-Muhammadiyya, Imam Shatibi’s al-I’tisam and Imam al-Lakhnawi’s Iqamat al-Hujjah).

    From the above definition of Bid’a, it becomes clear that new practices that are not considered to be part of Deen, rather they concern our worldly affairs, such as modern technology, cars, planes, etc… can not be considered as Bid’a, for the fact that they are not introduced with the intention of worship and gaining more reward. Innovations with regards to worldly matters do not fall into the category of reprehensible and sinful innovation, thus they are totally permissible as long as they don’t contradict any other ruling of Shariah.

    Similarly, acts and practices that were carried out (verbally, practically, explicitly or implicitly) in the time of the blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace), his Companions (Allah be pleased with them all) and the early generation can also not be called an innovation.

    Also, an act for which there was no apparent need in the time of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), his companions and the early generations, but later in order to attain a religious objective there rose a need to implement it, then this will also not fall within the definition of Bid’a. Examples of which are: building religious institutions, recording the research of Islamic schools of legal thought, writing books on beneficial subjects, establishing sciences in order to understand the Qur’an and Sunnah, using of modern weapons for Jihad, etc…

    With the above definition of Bid’a, it also becomes clear that to innovate something in religion that had the same need in the early times, but was not carried out will be considered a Bid’a, thus unlawful.

    Another aspect to remember with regards to Bid’a is that there are certain acts of worship which the Shariah has declared to be recommended (mandub) or highly encouraged (sunnah), but without specifying a particular procedure or method for it. Rewards have been promised for various types of worship, but the actual method of implementation has not been prescribed. This method of worship has been left to the convenience of the individual.

    In such acts of worship, it is necessary to leave the general permission given by the Shariah. If a particular method is fixed or considered to be superior to other methods, then this will be impermissible and classed as Bid’a.

    (This has been explained in a previous answer with examples. See the archives on this website.

    Classification of Bid’a

    The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Beware of matters newly begun, for every matter newly begun is innovation and every innovation is misguidance.” (recorded by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad 4/126-127, Imam Abu Dawud, Imam Tirmidhi & Imam Ibn Majah in their respective Sunan collections with an authentic chain of narrators).

    Due to the above Hadith, scholars say that from a perspective of the Shariah definition of Bid’a, every type of Bid’a is reprehensible and sinful. When an act is determined to fall into the abovementioned Shariah definition of Bid’a, then it can never be termed as good or lawful. All innovations are reprehensible and misguidance, thus unlawful.

    Imam Malik (Allah be pleased with him) said:

    “Whosoever innovates an innovation believing it to be good (hasana) has indeed claimed that the Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) breached the trust of Prophethood, because Allah Almighty says: “This day I have perfected your religion for you”. Anything that was not part of religion on that day, can not be a part of religion today.” (al-I’tisam, 1/48).

    However, Bid’a can be divided into various categories when considering the linguistic definition. As mentioned earlier, linguistically, Bid’a means to introduce something, thus any thing that is introduced will (from a linguistic point of view) be termed as Bid’a.

    These innovations may be obligatory, recommended and unlawful. When scholars categorize innovations, this is the aspect they are referring to.

    Therefore, innovations such as the study of the disciplines of Arabic that are necessary to understand the Qur’an and sunnah (grammar, syntax, etc), Hadith classification to distinguish between genuine and spurious prophetic traditions, modern technology like electricity, car, plain, light, building of Islamic schools, etc… despite being considered a Bid’a linguistically, will not be considered a Bid’a with regards to the Shariah definition, thus they are lawful.

    Imam al-Lakhnawi explains this by quoting from al-Tariqa al-Muhammadiyya of Imam al-Barkawi:

    “If it is said that how can we reconcile between the Messenger of Allah’s statement “Every innovation is misguidance” and the Fuqaha’s classification of Bid’a into the lawful, recommended and the obligatory?

    We will say: Bid’a has a linguistic meaning that is general, which is to introduce, regardless of whether it is considered worship or is related to personal habits. It (Bid’a) also has a Shariah definition that is more specific, which is to add or remove in religion in a way that it was not done in the time of the Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) and his Companions, verbally, practically, explicitly or implicitly. Therefore, (the Shar’i Bid’a) does not include habits (worldly matters), rather it is restricted to certain beliefs and practices” (Iqamat al-Hujjah, P. 21-22).

    Therefore, the classification of Bid’a in various categories is from a linguistic point of view that does not include the Shar’i definition of Bid’a. It is from this, Sayyiduna Umar al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) said regarding the performance of Tarawih prayer in congregation “This is a good innovation.”

    Also, practices that do not fall into the Shariah definition of Bid’a such as building of religious schools will still be considered a Bid’a linguistically, but not all linguistic innovations are reprehensible.

    Finally, it should also be remembered that practices carried out in the time of the rightly guided Khalifas, other Companions and their followers (Allah be plesed with all) can not be considered a Bid’a. The great Hanafi jurist and Hadith scholar, Imam Abd al-Hay al-Lakhnawi dedicated a whole chapter in support of this in his famous treatise titled ‘Iqamat al-hujjah ala an al-ikthar fi al-ta’abbud laysa bid’a’.

    He states:

    “Practices that were carried out with the approval of the Companions (Allah be pleased with them all) but were not done in the time of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), such as the introducing of the first Adhan for Jumu’ah prayer, twenty Rak’ats of Tarawih prayer, etc…can not be considered a Shar’i Bid’a.

    There are many evidences for this, just to mention a few:

    1) The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Hold fast on to my ways and the ways of the rightly guided Caliphs.” (Abu Dawud, Ahmad, Tirmidhi and others with an authentic chain of narrators).

    2) The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “follow in the footsteps of the two after me, Abu Bakr and Umar.” (Ahmad, Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah with a sound chain of narrators).

    (See for more details: Iqamat al-Hujjah by Imam al-Lakhnawi with notes by Shaykh Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghudda, P.25-58).

    And Allah Knows Best
    Muhammad ibn Adam
    Darul Iftaa
    Leicester , UK

    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/8514

    And with that, I'll say, astalavista, oops sorry that should be assalamualaikum fiamanillah!

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    @HabibUrrehman

    Prophet saw never invited people to join him in taraweeh. When some sahaba saw him praying in Ramadan at night, they joined him, however when a large number of people would turn up to join him, the Prophet (saw) would not pray and would leave the masjid.

    Basically one group of ahlus sunnah Scholars (the Hanafi's opined that missing taraweeh without good reason or making a habit of missing it will be a sin, and that's because Umar (ra) established it as a stressed sunnah, I. E, to be performed with jamaat regularly in Ramadan. And this is a valid opinion

    Anyway brother, as I said we can carry on disagreeing till kingdom come so its best to agree to disagree and leave it at that

    PS. The crucial evidence for bidah hasana is not based on Umar (ra) starting of regular taraweeh jamaat. It is based on the definition of bidah and wordings of hadith.
    No don't take shelter under greater umbrella of Hanafi Muslims. I have given quotes and videos previously from Hanafi scholars who denounce celebrating Prophet's birthday. I have seen that you have quoted Mufti Taqi Usmani in the past, below is his fatwa on this top where he clearly called it Bidah and something which Muslims should not celebrate, but of course you understand more than him


    The gatherings arranged to remember the birth of the Prophet Muhammad, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, the mercy to the mankind, are called Milad gatherings. Remembering the life of the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and teaching others about it, is an act of great blessing and virtue. However all good deeds have to be performed according to the rules and guidelines established by the Shariah. To exceed them is a grave sin. For example reciting the Qur'an is a great act of virtue, but it is prohibited to do so while one is in ruku or sujud in prayers. Likewise, Salat is one of the most important acts of worship. Yet, it is haram to perform it at sunrise or sunset.
    Similarly, there are rules governing the blessed remembrance of the Sirah. For example, this remembrance must not be associated with a particular day or month; it should be considered equally virtuous during every month of the year, every week of the month, and every day of the week. Also it can take any permissible form. For example you can arrange a reading of an authentic book on Sirah or have a lecture delivered by a scholar. Doing that is not only permissible but it will bring great reward. But it is important to stay away from the evils found in the prevalent Milad gatherings. Here are some of those evils:
    A particular date (12 Rabi-Awwal) has been designated for this remembrance. There is no evidence supporting this designation during the time of Sahaba (Companions), the tabiyeen (the generation that followed the companions) or taba-tabiyeen (the next generation). This designation is bida'a (innovation).
    The element of showoff (riya) is commonly present in these gatherings.
    If someone does not attend these gatherings, he is looked down upon.
    Distribution of sweets is considered an indispensable part of the proceedings.
    To meet the expenses donations are collected from sometimes unwilling people who give money under social pressure. According to the hadith it is not permissible to take any Muslim's money without his willingness.
    Intermixing of men and women commonly takes place in these gatherings. People stay late at night in these meetings thereby missing the next morning's prayers.
    The focus of the talks delivered there is very limited. The Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, has given guidance for every aspect of our life. These cover acts of worship, dealing with other people, morals and manners, social relationships, business dealings, etc. However, it has been observed that the prevalent Milad talks concentrate mainly or solely on the account of the birth of the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and his miracles. They do not attempt to cover the vast teachings of the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. [Thus, not only the form of these meetings but also the message given by them is generally a distorted one. Translator.]
    For these reasons one should refrain from the prevalent Milad gatherings. However if care is taken to avoid all of these evils and to follow the Shariah carefully, then a meeting organized to remember the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, with the sole purpose of seeking Allah's pleasure, will Insha-Allah be a blessed event. And Allah knows best.
    Written: Muhammad Abdul Muntaqim Sylheti (Darul-Ifta, Darul-uloom Karachi)
    Concurrence from:
    Justice Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani
    Mufti Muhammad Rafi Usmani
    Mufti Abdul Rauf Sakharvi
    And many others.
    Translated from Urdu by Khalid Baig.
    Source: http://albalagh.net/qa/milad_qa.shtml
    Your belief system in more inline with Barelvi Muslims who are small sect within Hanafi Muslims established in 1856 by Ahmad Raza Barelvi. Kindly read your history and see what Hanafi Muslims think of Baralvi's, they call them Kaafir and don't pray behind them. That's the reality of sects within Islam.

    This is the third time you refused to comment on the videos I shared which clearly show shirk done at the name of Mawlid. I can understand why you don't want to comment on those videos which clearly show that greats sin (Shirk) is being done at the name of Mawlid, perhaps that's the sort of Islam you believe in, Or perhaps you are too embarrassed to admit that you were wrong or perhaps your ego is not letting you to loose the argument. Anyways its not about winning or loosing an argument, it is matter of believing in the right thing for our salvation.

    I tried my best to show you the right path but guidance only comes from Allah. There is nothing which I can do if you are not willing to change. I will conclude my argument with following hadith:

    Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sects but my people will be divided into 73 sects, all of them will be in the fire except one.’ The companions asked. ‘Who are they O Messenger of Allah,’ Holy Prophet PBUH said. `They are those who will be like me and my companions.’ [Tirmidhi – Kitabul Iman]
    Signs Of those who follow the right path:
    “And hold fast altogether to the Rope of Allah and do not become divided.” [Qur’an 3:103]
    “And be not those who commit shirk (associate partners With Allah), those who split up their Deen (religion) and become sects;each rejoicing in what is with them.” [Qur’an 30:31-32]
    May Allah guide you to the path which is taught by Prophet PBUH and was followed by his companions. Ameen!

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Here's a good explanation with hadith reference:

    D The Messenger of Allaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

    "Whoever innovates something reprehensible in this matter of ours that does not belong to it is rejected." (Bukhari, Muslim)

    "In this matter" i.e. religion - Islam. Defining "innovation," Qadi Iyad رحمه الله writes, "Whoever innovates an opinion in Islam that does not have any manifest (zahir) or obscure (khafi) or clear derived substantiation from the Qur'an and Sunna, then it is rejected."

    ... It also can be understood from the above explanation of bid'a that many things were not needed in the time of Allah's Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم, but were established later to achieve a religious objective, cannot be included in the realm of bid'a (in the legal sense) either, [even though they may be considered bid'a in the literal sense, i.e., "an innovation" or "something new." Many times the later is intended when referencing a certain matter to be a good or bad bid'a, since every action legally considered a bid'a can only be reprehensible].

    Some innovations that do not violate the Qur'an or the Sunna include the establishment of of madrasas with their organized curricula and classrooms and centers and institutions for spreading Islam (da'wa). Also included among these commendable innovations is the codification of sciences like Arabic grammar, syntax, etymology, rhetoric, and literature to better understand and interpret the Qur'an and hadith; the study of philosophy [or other relevant subjects] to repudiate heretical groups; and the use of certain modern weapons for the defense of Muslims.

    Examples of [legally] reprehensible innovation include [unnecessary] decoration of masjids or the custom of shaking hands after the prayers. Mulla 'Ali al-Qari رحمه الله writes, "Some of our scholars [i.e. the Hanafi scholars] have explicitly mentioned that it [shaking hands after prayer] is disliked, and for this reason it is from among the reprehensible innovations (Mirqat al-mafatih 1:368, see also Radd al-muthar 5:244). [A] Conversely, one must also be cautious of ignorantly labeling something, which may be recommended or permissible, as a bid'a, since that is also detrimental to the faith.

    [Excerpt from, Provisions for the Seekers with commentary by Mufti Abdur-Rahman Ibn Yusuf]

    http://www.muftisays.com/forums/76-t...h.html?p=41785
    Assalaamu alaikum

    Are you on muftisays as well?

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by bint e aisha View Post
    Assalaamu alaikum

    Are you on muftisays as well?
    Sister

    I saw one of your questions on there

    No I'm not on there but just research up answers on there sometimes
    | Likes bint e aisha liked this post

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    salaam

    This thread should never have been started in the first place - its strange to see a moderator post about something that has been debated about endless - one can find plenty of threads just by searching. The bottom line is that salafis see this as bad bida because they follow certain scholars that have a specific the definition of bida (ibn Taymiyya, saudi salafis, modernist etc) - whilst the vast majority of sunnah wal Jammah as a demarcation definition good and bad bida (Most scholars like Imam shafi, Ibn Hajer, Suyuti, Nawawi, etc).
    Last edited by Zafran; 6 Days Ago at 09:48 PM.
    | Likes Ahmed. liked this post
    Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    salaam

    This thread should never have been started in the first place - its strange to see a moderator post about something that has been debated about endless - one can find plenty of threads just by searching. The bottom line is that salafis see this as bad bida because they follow certain scholars that have a specific the definition of bida (ibn Taymiyya, saudi salafis, modernist etc) - whilst the vast majority of sunnah wal Jammah as a demarcation definition good and bad bida (Most scholars like Imam shafi, Ibn Hajer, Suyuti, Nawawi, etc).
    Facts speaks for itself, below are some links to the videos specific to Mawlid, watch and tell me if this is only Bidah or is it shirk? Anyone in right mind can see why bidah like this leads to hell fire....

    https://youtu.be/gwBDB_iRRSw
    https://youtu.be/ZPh88eu9HDc
    https://youtu.be/Q-J8L2ynVfw
    https://youtu.be/R0M-eoZt9I4
    https://youtu.be/XVxrUZJTUXE
    https://youtu.be/tmoDEXtRpE4
    https://youtu.be/COvuH-2-xlE

    Just tell me how something which is good can lead people to commit shirk.
    I don't think this debate was useless. We need to discuss such issues with an open mind and accept if something is wrongly introduced in the Islam.
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 6 Days Ago at 11:52 PM.

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Dont open a door for good bidah because people will introduce many bad things to Islam at the name of good bidah. Just look at the video links I shared in my previous posts and you can see how that leads to shirk.
    Imam Shafi,Ibn Hajer Asqalani, Imam Suyuti, Imam Nawawi etc etc are Big names who split Bida in different categories. This includes putting the mawlid in Good bida - the video links are useless - the scholars and there arguments is where the main discourse is at not random people doing stupid things.


    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Second, there is not a single authentic source providing the birthdate of Prophet PBUH. If there is not a single authentic date then what are you celebrating?
    Neither is the night of power - the month that prophets brith is known and as i said plenty of Ulema see it as a good thing. If you don't well there are Ulema who do not.


    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    I don't think this debate was useless. We need to discuss such issues with an open mind and accept if something is wrongly introduced in the Islam.
    Your not going to solve this because your coming from a different school of thought. The moderator shouldn't have brought it up.
    | Likes Ahmed. liked this post
    Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Facts speaks for itself, below are some links to the videos specific to Mawlid, watch and tell me if this is only Bidah or is it shirk? Anyone in right mind can see why bidah like this leads to hell fire....
    This is just people acting dumb - it as nothing to do with the arguments of the scholars that have been presented. Lets keep the discourse rational as we are talking about a fiqh issue which bleeds in to good/bad bida split - shirk is aqeada not fiqh - people are presenting authorities in Islam like Imam Nawawi, Imam Suyuti, Imam Shafi - not foolish people from random countries.
    | Likes Ahmed. liked this post
    Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    I don't care about how scholars define bidah, just tell me how can something be good when it leads to shirk?
    Islam is based on scholarship.
    | Likes Ahmed. liked this post
    Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    This is just people acting dumb - it as nothing to do with the arguments of the scholars that have been presented. Lets keep the discourse rational as we are talking about a fiqh issue which bleeds in to good/bad bida split - shirk is aqeada not fiqh - people are presenting authorities in Islam like Imam Nawawi, Imam Suyuti, Imam Shafi - not foolish people from random countries.
    That’s exactly my point. No one acted dumb in case of Taraweeh? Why is this the case with Mawlid? And it’s not just common people who are doing this, your so called scholars ( imams) are dancing there as well.
    Allah SWT knows better than human beings and whatever acts of worship were necessary have been described in Quran and Sunnah. These acts only bring people closer to God. Have you seen people dancing during prayer? Have you seen people singing songs during Taraweeh? Why? Because these acts are not invented by human beings.

    Human beings can invent acts of worship as well just like our Christians friends have invented and now Muslims are doing at the name of good bidah, guess what they lead people to commit shirk. And hence the reason prophet Muhammad PBUH said that all innovations will lead to misguidance and hell fire. All means all.

    The scholars who say bidah is good may have big names but they are not prophet PBUH and are not guaranteed jannah. Anyways you can follow such scholars if you like to and on the day of judgement can say that I followed so and so, I can proudly say that I followed prophet Muhammad PBUH to the letter.
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 6 Days Ago at 12:17 AM.

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    Neither is the night of power - the month that prophets brith is known and as i said plenty of Ulema see it as a good thing. If you don't well there are Ulema who do not.
    are you kidding me? Have you read Quran? Is not night of power mentioned in there? Have you read hadiths, there are many on the topic of night of power. All scholars agree that it is to be in the last 10 nights of Ramadan. How can you compare that to Prophet’s birthdate? There is no reward mentioned anywhere to celebrate the birthday and neither is any authentic account with exact date of birth. If one do want to celebrate then celebrate for entire month just like power of night is not known and we all work hard to find it in last 10 days of Ramadan.

    Anyways, these two are not relevant. One is proven through Quran and Sunnah while other is not.

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    Your not going to solve this because your coming from a different school of thought. The moderator shouldn't have brought it up.
    moderator clearly said not to comment unless someone watch the video.

    second most of the topics in Islam are controversial with difference of opinion and that does not mean one should not discuss it. Differences are resolved only when we discuss and have an open mind.

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    Re: Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    Thread closed

    Apologies to those offended but I did clearly state to not comment unless you watched the video. Was hoping for a discussion on the interesting points raised but seeing as none of the points of the speaker were refuted besides a bizarre issue over his discussing a reason for not being given Salam which was irrelevant
    @Zafran this moderator brought it up because he views his responsibility to call to Islam seriously

    Anyway nuff said watch the video if you are interested. Our job is not to make people believe our job is to convey the message.

    May Allah guide us all to the path he is pleased with
    Mawlid. Where is your intellect?

    The sunnah is like the ark of Noah, whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned.~ Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him)


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