On Saturday I went to the football with my friend,he does not practise any religion at all(although comes from a Christian upbringing),on our way the way to the game & on the train to Glasgow we got discussing about things mostly conspiracy theories what popped up in conversation was,the usual conspiracy theories stuff,it was the flat earth this time,now we had a good discussion although my friend is 7 yrs younger & believes in what I do mostly political & conspiracy theories,he still hasnt aligned himself to a faith,once we got to outside football stadium,i met this man who had a small statue of an alien,on it was a piece of paper which mentioned things about ''flat earth'',..now anyone that knows me on this forum will know I am a new revert,from april although I have been looking into Islam,..To be honest,i am still on a learning curve with Islam,learning more & progressing more into the faith,& still scratching the surface with the Qur'an,Now why do I mention this,well what is the odds of this happening getting into such a deep discussion with my friend,then on my way I met a man interviewing people on the very same subject,hmm coincidence? Not,for me things happen for a reason!!
here is the inter view I am the man in the grey jogging suit & celtic(green/white)scarf,i hope you can undertand me LOL as Scottish accent is fast & difficult to understand,please ask if you don't understand
I was with the kids today for a moment and they asked what i was doing.
...just reading the news i said.
..they said read it out to us..
I had to go find another website.
..there is no point in challenging any perception of reality, only hoping they find a better one than mine.
..
..
..i have no idea what that has to do with a flat earth theory.
Proof has to be given from the ground up.
..well..
Most of the time anyway.
I dont devote my time to flat earth proofs.. so i can only argue in.. a round about way.. lol.
Darwins theory of evolution is almost set in stone..
And yet it is still debateable.. in fact its probably one of the most controversial theories in science.
There is nobody that gains from it.
There is probably not any cover up.
..but the controversy still stands.
..in fact the very people that say no islamic authority or theory should be accepted from or credibility given to a flat earth claimer..
Probably give a differing answer towards the theory of evolution..
I may have to google it o_o
Einstein was a different kettle of fish though.
..if you spend enough time with/on something, sooner or later you have to try making sense of it..
Unless you have been planning not to.. or planning for something else.
These are getting increasingly long.. if i could talk like this and say nothing it would be great irl..
Anyway another viewpoint on another matter..
Recently i have been youtubing neil de grasse tyson..
Scientist and teacher.
But like stand up comics, it seems if you watch too long you probably end up watching a repeat..
And he has interesting takes on muslim history..
And at one point even attributed the scientific and academic advancements made under the "golden age of islam" ..to middle easterners not related to islam at all..
I do not know if this is true, But it may as well be..
I can only barely relate these last few paragraphs back to your post.
It would seem knowledge is not power, application of knowledge is power.
I dont know if what we talk about and what we say are the same thing.
...dont worry, everyone gets it wrong at some time or other.
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
It's amazing that people are still debating whether the Earth is flat in the 21st century.
Scimitar has already asked the key question: If you believe in flat earth, and think there's some sort of conspiracy - ask yourself - who gains from it? and why?
There's little point in saying anything else about the flat Earth hypothesis until you've answered that question.
Peace
Some have tried tying a gopro to an air balloon, which is fail on so many levels. K, uhm (cough)... vote to close thread then ??
"Sixty years ago, when the Russians beat us into space, we didn't deny Sputnik was up there," Obama proclaimed, drawing applause from some of the senators, representatives and honored guests packed into the House Chamber of the U.S. Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. "We didn't argue about the science, or shrink our research and development budget."-
"We built a space program almost overnight, and 12 years later, we were walking on the moon,"-
Im not saying its fake..
Because im posting from my mobile phone..
But those awkward pauses and looks do even myself proud..
I just realised its not a satellite phone.. o_o sorry.
Last edited by M.I.A.; 10-12-2017 at 08:45 PM.
Reason: Please remember its all edited, without context and entirety.. its just spin
The Muslim holy book, the Qur'an, stated the earth is spherical, explicitly 1400+ years ago:
Chapter/Sura 79:30, that is Sura Naziyat Aya 30 reads in Arabic ” WAL ARDA BAID ZALIKA DOHAHA”.
Here is the word for word breakdown:
WAL means AND
ARDA means EARTH
BAID means AFTER
ZALIKA means THAT
DOHAHA MEANS EGG SHAPED THING
Now see the English translation of the Sura 79:30 “And the earth , moreover, hath he extended in egg shape.” The origin of the verb, “Dohaha,” is found in the word (Ud-hiya), which means “egg of ostrich”
No flat earth protagonists in Islam bro.
If it wasn't for this ayah, the Islamic Golden Age scientist, Al Biruni would not have been so inclined to calculate the diameter of the earth to within a fraction of accuracy. Nor could Muslim geographers map the world as in the case of Muhammad Al Idrisi. The Piri Reis map would not have been made either, showing the continents which no nation before had known about - antarctica - Neither could they have done A,B,C...X,Y,Z.
Abu Rayhan Muhammad ibn Ahmad Biruni, also known simply as Al Biruni (born 5 September 973 in Kath, Khwarezm (now in Uzbekistan), died 13 December 1048 in Ghazni, today’s Afghanistan) was a Persian scholar and polymath of the 11th century.The early Muslims duplicated the technique of Eratosthenes. The Early Muslims attempted to measure the Earth using Eratosthenes method, 200 years before Al Biruni. But, that technique had a basic flaw. Al Biruni came up with a better idea, to measure the circumference of the earth, based on trigonometry. It is beautifully demonstrated by James Al Khalili in his BBC documentary, the Empire of Reason. He quotes Al Biruni’s book and then applies the technique himself. I picked up the exact segments of the documentary for you:
Flat Earth protagonists should keep an open mind, and watch this experiment. I promise, your brains won't fall out.
Moving on - Christians have always thought the earth was flat and not spherical. The Hebrew Old Testament uses the word "Khoog" which is translated from the Hebrew to Greek then to Latin and finally to English - during this process of Chinese Whispers, the word Khoog has lost its' original intended meaning and been translated as "corners". So instead of "four cardinal directions (north east, west, south)" the translations claims "four corners" which propagates for a flat earth instead of the original meaning.
This problem of Chinese Whispers can be better demonstrated as follows:
A cook they hadde with hem for the nones
To boille the chiknes with the marybones,
That was Chaucer, apporx 700 years ago, and this is English. Not exactly today's English. Makes Shakespeare look modern. Chaucer is hotly debated among English Professors even today because the English of those times is rather, alien to us today. Consider, the Bible was taught in this language, Middle English - and from a translation in Italian. Which in turn was a translation from Greek, which in turn from the Hebrew... and what you have my friend - is Chinese whispers augmented over the course of time.
The people of old, used allegory and metaphor moreso than we do today. And so, naturally God would reveal to them verses which fit into their eco-context of language. Problem we have in modern times - namely that uni-lingual English speaking folk, have no clue how to study the scripture because they do not know how language forms and how many types of language there are and why Semitic languages are wholly different to other languages in the world today.
But all is not lost. Look, if I could do it - so can others. I am self taught, and I sought out scholars and priests, rabbi's and shaikhs etc to make sure I am reading the right intention from within the verses I am studying.
Meanwhile, you have the Bedroom Believer, who tucks up in bed before sleep with an holy book, attempting to glean its mysteries as if its JRR Tolkein they are reading. Here's looking at you M.I.A.
Recap a little, yes?
The Muslims mapped the world in the 13th century, check out Al Idrisi's Tabulus Rogeriana - that was the known world at that time - no Americas... but then check out the Piri Reis map - also made by Muslims and you find that not just the Americas - but the Antarctic was mapped - but it was mapped without the glaciers and ice on it's coastline, to within a degree of accuracy. All this almost a thousand years before the West knew there was an Antarctica.
Even without the knowledge of the Americas - Al Idrisi understood the world to be spherical due to two things:
1) Science and math, Al Biruni had already calculated the radius and circumference of the earth. I'm pretty sure Al Biruni's only agenda was to know the size of the earth - nothing to do with any world moving govt conspiracy of modern day. So this argument for a flat earth fails. Other mathematicians calculated its mass based on - yet more maths coupled with astronomy. I forgot to mention that earlier. And that is a massive hole in the flat earth argument right here - scientifically speaking.
2) Reports from sailors and captains who had travelled the world on ships and had the opportunity to relay this info to Al Idrisi. And these sailors had travelled around the world, not across it - as flat earth believers would seem to suggest. It's all there, in the histories.
And this is how we got to know about Fiji also. Mankind has forever been adventurous. Seeking that other hill, other pasture, or in some rare cases - the water of life - point being, mankind have always been pragmatic builders of boats and ships and went places. Our own very Semitic history teaches us of the flood and how mankind was saved with the Ark. Ships n sailors was nothing uncommon in the old days. Today its a little more novel.
We have a "dark side" to the earth too - namely where Fiji sits in the middle of nowhere - now, if there was land - I'm pretty sure they'd have found it by now, on a spherical or flat earth - this does not help you to make a point.
Factor in also, how Al Biruni calculated the using trigonometry, the size of the earth and you will find that applying the math to a flat circular model over a spherical one - simply, does, not, work.
The Christian will claim a verse from the Old Testament and New Testament allude to flat earth dynamics - The verses which they claim are "flat earth" verses in the Old Testament and New are problematic.
This malarky is promoted ONLY by some pretending to be ‘Christians’. You won’t find a Muslim, not a Jew, nor any humanist satanists, nor a Buddhist promoting this foolishness. Only ‘christian pastors’. Isn’t that telling you something? Please look at the New Testament 1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
And I ask why this is such a big deal? does the shape of the earth impact your practice of your faith? you know the answer to that already... but in the case of the intellectually challenged, the answer is a big fat resounding NO!
Bottom line is this, the bible is being proven wrong in the modern age with the narrative Christians sponsor (flat earth) while my holy book, the Qur'an - claimed "sphere" 1400 years ago, quite beautifully.
NOTE: I do not sponsor the belief that the Old Testament teaches a flat earth model of our planet. But flat earth believing Christians do. So this is the standard by which I make that claim.
If Christians read the Qur'an like they read the bible, I have no doubt they would believe the earth was flat too - simply because of their "linear reading" which doesn't flesh out the skeletal framework of the verses. It's the contextual understanding which fleshes the meat out.
I'd like to remind the Christians of this verse: 1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Let us take a look at Isaiah 40:22 from the Old Testament first.
Isaiah 40:22 - "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..."
It should be understood that in Hebrew, there is no word for "Sphere". The word "Khoog" in Hebrew translates to the following: Circle, Circuit, Compass.
Knowing that there is no word for "Sphere" in Hebrew, and that the word used is Khoog (translation: circle), will most definitely confuse many into believing the earth is flat. Let's now take a look at if this is actually what the Bible(s) are attempting to teach God willing.
The Christian and the Jew believes and are taught that God is "Omni-Present". That He looks down on the earth from every angle.The Earth would appear to be a circle from any angle - because God is far above the earth looking down onto it - no matter which direction HE looks at earth from - it can only appear as a circle from every angle if the earth is a sphere.
But the flat earth believing Christian follows this contradictory understanding of his holy book:
But, if it is a flat disc with a dome shaped roof, as per this image above, only from the top angle would the earth appear as a circle, meanwhile all other angles would prove the bible untrue. The earth mis-shapen and God - a liar - If you believe in flat earth. Isaiah fits a spherical earth in context but with linear minds - flat earth, which is failed understanding.
I was thinking about the story of Jonah and the Whale and was reminded of Ephesians 4:9 telling us of Jesus pbuh descending into the heart of the earth. Can mankind be in the heart of a circle any more than he can be in the belly of the fish - from Ephesians 4:9 "first descended into the lower parts of the earth".
Job 26:7 reads as follows: He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.
If North is the center of the earth in the flat earth map - where is "south" according to the Cardinal Directions (north east west n south) given in the Old & New Testament scriptures??? Everywhere the rim of the flat earth circumferences over??? Is this sound dissemination of the Old & New Testament scripture which they entertain? Or is starting to look bogus? Are you starting to see how bogus this flat earth malarky is if using the Bible(s) as your inferences? Job 26:7 is clearly comparing the earth to the other planets in space "He spreads out the Northern skies over empty space; He suspends the earth over nothing"- Same as the Moon, the Sun, and the planets which surround it.
Job 26:10 He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness. - this fits with Job 26:7, which mentions the Earth is suspended in space like the moon and sun, and 26:10 is giving us a visual identifier to know it is a sphere and not a circle - "he marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness" - This is only possible with a spherical model of the earth, and not a flat one. See?
Would you like me to go into the science now? or is this enough to show you how protagonising for a flat earth is just, simply, dumb!
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