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  1. #1
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    Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party (OP)


    السلام عليكم


    The Muslims Are One Group & One Party


    From the words of the Shaykh , al-'Allāmah, Hamood bin 'Uqalā' Ash-Shu'aybī (may Allāh have mercy on him):

    "Question: What do you – may Allāh safeguard you – say in relation to belonging the Islamic groups?

    Shaykh Hamood replied: The Muslimūn are one group and one party; they are those who are upon the Book and the Sunnah. However, it is these groups today that have weakened the da’wah and divided the ummah into various sects and parties. So this is the Tablighī group; this is the Salafī group – those who falsely attribute themselves to Salafīyyah – and this is the Ikhwān group, and so on.

    Those who agree with the Book and the Sunnah from these various groups are the ones upon the truth. In terms of dispersion, fragmentation, and separation, then this evil happened from the enemies of the Muslimīn; because the enemies of Islām realize that the authentic Islām poses a danger to them. Due to that they make efforts to divide the Muslimīn so that the Muslimīn do not become established.

    This separation is not permissible and weakens the ummah; it is obligatory upon everyone to unite upon the Book and the Sunnah, and to give aid among the Muslimīn. As for every group who curses and insults the other, then it is erroneous and not permissible. He (ta‘ālā) said, “ And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah (i.e. this Qur'ān), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allāh's Favour on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islamic Faith)1..." And He (ta‘ālā) said, "And verily, this 2 is my Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not (other) paths, for they will separate you away from His Path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al-Muttaqūn." 3

    The Muslimīn being united is a root of strength and honor, along with a means for victory...." - End

    Adaptation of Eng. Transfer. (Original Arabic : http://www.al-oglaa.com/?section=subject&SubjectID=21 )

    ------------

    1 Āle Imrān (3), 103.
    2 i.e. Allāh's Commandments mentioned in the above two Verses 151 and 152.
    3 Al-An'ām (6), 153.
    Last edited by Caplets; 11-04-2019 at 06:39 PM.
    | Likes HabibUrrehman liked this post

  2. #21
    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

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    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    Thats the problem brother Ahmed. Just like you have so called evidences for your belief system, Shias have the evidence too. You are calling them kaffir while some of them call Sunni Muslims Kaffir. Within Sunnis, there are several sects and most of them call each other kaffir. If that's the way to practice Islam then everyone is kaffir according to someone. I honestly don't listen to any Imam who promotes any particular sect and declares that followers of such and such sect are superior over others. That's the problem that we have religious scholars who divide people. I am not saying all of them are like this but it is a reality that most of the Muslim scholars today promote hate among Muslims. That's the reason first one to be thrown in the hell fire will be people of knowledge. May Allah save us from those! Ameen!

    If you ever go for Hajj, you will see true colors of Islam. People from every part of the world come to please Allah SWT. There are people of all colors, all ages, different sects but they all perform same rituals on the same days and in the same way. Everyone puts their differences aside and try to be better Muslims based on Quran and Sunnah. Everyone prays behind one Imam even if that Imam follows a different madhab than theirs. That's the Islam I love and that's the Islam we need to bring in our lives.

    We need to look at what can bring Muslims together. Can we all agree on Quran? Yes we can.
    Does Quran teach to follow the Sunnah of Prophet PBUH? It does. In fact that's the only way for acceptance of our ibadah (worship).
    Are Hadith preserved? Yes, Allah has blessed our scholars to preserve every tiny details of this religion. We can disagree on following weak hadiths but can we all agree on following Sahih hadiths? I think we can.
    Should we be divided into sects based on Madhabs? I don't think Quran promotes that and we have seen that it only divides Muslims.

    With that said, I can share some of my personal details so that my opinions don't bewilder you. I am not a salafi, or shia or Sunni. I am proud to be a Muslim. I don't follow any particular madhab. I sincerely pray to Allah to show me the right path, I read Quran and Sahih hadith to the best of my ability and base my opinion on the teachings of Quran and hadith (Mostly Bukhari & Muslim). I also read books from several Islamic scholars and listen to scholars who strictly follow Quran and Sunnah. However, I don't follow them blindly and don't take their word as my religion. I compare what they say against Quran and Sunnah and if they promote something different than Quran and Sunnah I stop listening to them. I used to be Hanafi but ever since I left following a madhab, it has forced me to learn the religion and my knowledge of Islam has only increased Alhamdulillah. I do Istikhara and keep asking Allah to firm my heart on things which will make me closer to Him. I am not so rigid in my belief system and is always open to change them if I can found a Quranic verse and sahih hadith contradicting what I believe.

    Islam is very simple religion and most of the time we really don't need to know fiq as much as we think. Even if we do, we can read opinions of all 4 madhabs and see what justification they have from Quran and Sunnah. Do Istikhara and follow what our heart is content with. There is no need for shopping a fatwa to justify my actions because I know Allah knows what's in my heart and all what really matters is how much effort I made to come to my decision. An educated decision is better than following something blindly.
    I don't call shias kafir, I said there are valid opinions amongst ahlus sunnah Scholars that the largest sect of Shias, namely the Imamiyah or the Ithna ashari (12er Shias, and Iran regime is that) are kuffar due to their kufr beliefs. Do you really think that people who claim Quran isn't complete,, or who say most of sahaba (ra) are munafiqoun or who say our Mother of the believers Aisha (ra) commited adultery, can be Muslims?

    I think rather than just support shias, you should look into why some are regarded as kuffar because there is a well known saying from our Scholars that people who do not do takfir on kufr (I. E. Who don't recognise kufr for what it is) turn kuffar themselves*.... So you see, this self ijtihad you do can lead to the ultimate harm


    *Now the following is regarding kuffar religions, however the ruling of not recognising kufr as kufr applies generally:

    Imam Nawawi notes:
    "Someone who does not believe that whoever follows another religion besides Islam is an unbeliever (like Christians), or doubts that such a person is an unbeliever, or considers their sect to be valid, is himself an unbeliever (kafir) even if he manifests Islam and believes in it" (Rawda al-talibin, 10.70).

    I wonder what your views on the ahmadiyah is bro, could you share with us, are they Muslims in your opinion?
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:07 AM.

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    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Oops I pressed like by mistake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post

    Hmmm, it's like you have created your own madhab brother as all Muslims (apart from Shias)


    Do you really think I care about your likes or dislikes? I will be perfectly fine if you dislike all my posts. My intention is to do everything to please Allah Subahanhu Wa Taala and not any human being.

    The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said:
    And if the people of Israel were fragmented into seventy-two sects, my Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects. All of them will be in Hell Fire except one sect. The noble Companions asked: O Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him), which one is that? Whereupon he (peace be upon him) said: It is one to which I and my companions belong.



    The Prophet of Allah (saws) said in an authentic narration:
    I leave behind me two things, which if you (the believers) follow, you will never be mis-guided: 1.The Al Quran and 2. My Sunnah.


    We recently debated on the topic of Mawlid. You think it is something good but neither Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) nor his companions ever celebrated that. There is not even a single authentic narration show his real birthdate but yet Muslims like you insist that it should be celebrated and should be celebrated on 12th Rabi Al Awal. Is this what you call following Sunnah? That following your scholar's view who himself is not guaranteed Jannah.

    I also previously discussed a hadith that for men is it fard to have their lower garments above ankles because Prophet PBUH said so and he and his companions did that. You said that's the difference of opinion. Your scholars ( not Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his companions) interpret that you can lower your garments below ankles if one does not have pride. In other words when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him has his izar above ankles that means he has pride (naouzubillah). Again see who actually follows the Sunnah? It is easy to make claims but when it comes to following the Sunnah you are far away because you choose to blindly follow your scholars not Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

    Now I am not saying that don't listen to scholars, listen to those who follow Quran and Sunnah and unit the Muslims instead of promoting to divide them. Majority of the scholars in hanafi, shafi and other scholl of thoughts spend their entire life to prove that their madhab is the right madhab. I wish they can only focus to teach Quran and Sunnah and keep people away from innovations.

    I am following Quran and Sunnah. That's the definition of a Muslim from Quran and hadith ( I quoted few above). Seriously how do you call that a separate madhab? Is being Muslim a separate madhab? Really? If so you can label it that way and I am happy to be a Muslim. I love you brother Ahmad, there is no need to cross the limits just to defend you madhab. I sincerely call you to be a Muslim and try not to be part of any sect.

    Quran says:

    Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allah, works righteousness, and says, ‘I am one of the Muslims'
    [Quran 41,33]


    Quran says:

    And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves;” [Qur’an 3:103]


    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Here's the hadith it's based on:

    (1) Imam Abu Dawood (Rahimahullah) has quoted the well known Hadith concerning the division of the Muslim Ummah into seventy-three sects in his Sunan (3/4580, English edn):

    Abu Amir al-Hawdhani said, “Mu’awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan (may Allah be pleased with him) stood among us and said, ‘Beware! The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) stood among us and said’: ‘Beware! The People of the Book before (you) were split up into 72 sects, and
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    this community will be split up into 73,
    seventy-two of them will go to Hell and one of them will go to Paradise
    ,
    and it is the majority group (Jama’ah).’

    Another version of the above Hadith has been reported by Hafiz Ibn Kathir (Rahimahullah) in The signs before the day of Judgement (pg. 14):

    “Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, ‘The Jews split into 71 sects: one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects: 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul,
    my Ummah will split into 73 sects
    : one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.’ Someone asked, ‘O Messenger ofAllah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?’ He replied, ‘The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama’ah).’ Awf ibn Malik is the only one who reported this Hadith, and its isnad is acceptable.” And in another version of this Hadith the Prophet (Peace be upon him) goes onto say that the saved sect, “…Are those who follow my and my Sahaba’s path” (Tirmidhi, vol. 2, pg. 89)


    The hadiths you quoted above are evidence of my POV. The division of Muslim Ummah is predicted by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). As it has been predicted by prophet it is sure that it will happen and Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. But he did not say that Muslims should be active in dividing themselves into sects. We should do our best to stop it as whosoever will become one of the deviated 72 will go into Hell. And It is duty of all Muslims to save every person from going to Hell. So as Last ummati and no prophet will come it is our duty to try for every person to enter into paradise. This was the mission of our beloved prophet (peace be upon him).

    It is also clear that the group which will be saved in the one who will truly follow Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companions. And the groups who will go to hell are those who will invent new matters into the religion just like Mawalid. If you still choose to follow those who interpret hadiths to take one away from Sunnah then that's your choice and I have no desire to debate further on this issue. You are smart enough and Alhamdulillah has ability to learn Islam so do what you think is best for you. We all have to stand in front of same God and answer for what we did and what we believed. I will be proud to say that I follow Quran and Sunnah to the best of my ability and did not follow those who promoted to divide the Muslims. I will be proud to say that I called people to Quran and real organic view of the Sunnah without adding or removing anything from the meanings of the hadith.

    My job is only to convey the message and I can't make people change their minds. As I mentioned before, I don't have any desire to debate further on this because our debate has no ending. I am not sure about you but it effects my khushu during Salat and I don't want to put myself into anything to lose my concentration while I pray.

    I ask you to forgive me if I said anything that has hurt your feelings, that was never my intention. I still love you as my brother in faith, we have lot more common and I am sure you intent to be a good Muslim just as I do. I leave it up to Allah to resolve our differences and put love in our hearts for each other as we worship same God and we follow the same prophet.

    Ma'a Salama

  5. #23
    Caplets's Avatar
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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    السلام عليكم

    Does calling yourself a e.g. salafī (in and of itself) make you upon the way of the Salaf As-Sālih? Donate only to Salafī masjid's?

    https://youtu.be/WueeD5CzP5A

    (Duration 11 mins 54 secs)

    Q&A with Mufti Muhammad ibn Muneer.


    السلام علیکم


    Last edited by Caplets; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:40 PM.
    Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    “Your soul is just like your enemy; if it finds you serious, it will obey you. But if it finds you weak, it will take you as a prisoner.”

  6. #24
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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Caplets View Post
    السلام عليكم

    Does calling yourself a e.g. salafī (in and of itself) make you upon the way of the Salaf As-Sālih? Donate only to Salafī masjid's?

    https://youtu.be/WueeD5CzP5A

    (Duration 11 mins 54 secs)

    Q&A with Mufti Muhammad ibn Muneer.


    السلام علیکم


    Thanks for sharing Brother,
    I love to listen to scholars like Mufti Muneer. These are the type of scholars who unite the Muslim Umma. May Allah bless this Ummah with more scholars like him and May Allah put the love of such scholars in our hearts. Ameen!

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    [LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]

    Do you really think I care about your likes or dislikes? I will be perfectly fine if you dislike all my posts. My intention is to do everything to please Allah Subahanhu Wa Taala and not any human being.

    [LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana][LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]
    The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said:



    The Prophet of Allah (saws) said in an authentic narration:


    We recently debated on the topic of Mawlid. You think it is something good but neither Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) nor his companions ever celebrated that. There is not even a single authentic narration show his real birthdate but yet Muslims like you insist that it should be celebrated and should be celebrated on 12th Rabi Al Awal. Is this what you call following Sunnah? That following your scholar's view who himself is not guaranteed Jannah.

    I also previously discussed a hadith that for men is it fard to have their lower garments above ankles because Prophet PBUH said so and he and his companions did that. You said that's the difference of opinion. Your scholars ( not Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his companions) interpret that you can lower your garments below ankles if one does not have pride. In other words when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him has his izar above ankles that means he has pride (naouzubillah). Again see who actually follows the Sunnah? It is easy to make claims but when it comes to following the Sunnah you are far away because you choose to blindly follow your scholars not Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

    Now I am not saying that don't listen to scholars, listen to those who follow Quran and Sunnah and unit the Muslims instead of promoting to divide them. Majority of the scholars in hanafi, shafi and other scholl of thoughts spend their entire life to prove that their madhab is the right madhab. I wish they can only focus to teach Quran and Sunnah and keep people away from innovations.

    I am following Quran and Sunnah. That's the definition of a Muslim from Quran and hadith ( I quoted few above). Seriously how do you call that a separate madhab? Is being Muslim a separate madhab? Really? If so you can label it that way and I am happy to be a Muslim. I love you brother Ahmad, there is no need to cross the limits just to defend you madhab. I sincerely call you to be a Muslim and try not to be part of any sect.

    Quran says:



    Quran says:





    The hadiths you quoted above are evidence of my POV. The division of Muslim Ummah is predicted by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). As it has been predicted by prophet it is sure that it will happen and Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. But he did not say that Muslims should be active in dividing themselves into sects. We should do our best to stop it as whosoever will become one of the deviated 72 will go into Hell. And It is duty of all Muslims to save every person from going to Hell. So as Last ummati and no prophet will come it is our duty to try for every person to enter into paradise. This was the mission of our beloved prophet (peace be upon him).

    It is also clear that the group which will be saved in the one who will truly follow Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companions. And the groups who will go to hell are those who will invent new matters into the religion just like Mawalid. If you still choose to follow those who interpret hadiths to take one away from Sunnah then that's your choice and I have no desire to debate further on this issue. You are smart enough and Alhamdulillah has ability to learn Islam so do what you think is best for you. We all have to stand in front of same God and answer for what we did and what we believed. I will be proud to say that I follow Quran and Sunnah to the best of my ability and did not follow those who promoted to divide the Muslims. I will be proud to say that I called people to Quran and real organic view of the Sunnah without adding or removing anything from the meanings of the hadith.

    My job is only to convey the message and I can't make people change their minds. As I mentioned before, I don't have any desire to debate further on this because our debate has no ending. I am not sure about you but it effects my khushu during Salat and I don't want to put myself into anything to lose my concentration while I pray.

    I ask you to forgive me if I said anything that has hurt your feelings, that was never my intention. I still love you as my brother in faith, we have lot more common and I am sure you intent to be a good Muslim just as I do. I leave it up to Allah to resolve our differences and put love in our hearts for each other as we worship same God and we follow the same prophet.

    Ma'a Salama
    Hmmm impressive knowledge you have there, however it's incorrect as you're forming opinions yourself with your laymen mind (I. E, while not having anywhere near as the prerequisite knowledge needed for ijtihad) and I'm afraid although you may be sincere in your quest to obey Allah but yet if you fall foul of the ultimate sin itself (see post #21) it will all go to waste

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Hmmm impressive knowledge you have there, however it's incorrect as you're forming opinions yourself with your laymen mind (I. E, while not having anywhere near as the prerequisite knowledge needed for ijtihad) and I'm afraid although you may be sincere in your quest to obey Allah but yet if you fall foul of the ultimate sin itself (see post #21) it will all go to waste
    Assalam O Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

    Let me first address the importance of sincerity because apparently you think that God will ignore those who are sincere in their obedience of Allah Subahanhu Wa Taala. Why are there people who were never Muslim but they end up accepting Islam? Because they were sincere in their hearts and they were sincerely looking for truth. Read the story of Salman Farsi and you will know how Allah guided him to Islam because he was sincere in his relation to God.
    Faith does not mean mere wishful thinking such as I will be saved because I am Hanafi and we form the largest sect among Muslims. If that's what you think faith is then Christians think the same way. There are lot more Christians than Muslims, does that mean that all Muslims are doomed?

    Sincerity before God is associated with faithfulness in Islam.It is one of the most important criteria God uses to judge the state of an individual's heart. The one who is sincere is also willing to submit to anything Allah commands if that's is found to be authentic such as Quranic verses and Sahih hadiths. Now compare that to established madhabs. One common factor with follower of any madhab is that they will defend their madhab at all costs even if it means rejecting verses from Quran or rejecting authentic hadiths or both. It shows unwillingness to submit to Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala and willingness to submit to their scholars interpretation even when it is clear that their opinion goes against Quran and Sunnah. That's insincerity to Allah or hypocrisy in other words.

    Let's not go too far, I replied today to a thread about joining prayers. Hanafi's think it is not permissible, Shafi's think it is. Who is right, only one of them can be right . What's the criteria to see who is right? Quran and Sunnah is the only absolute criteria. In this case, Shafi, Maliki and Hanafi all agree that prayers can be combined if there is a valid reason to combine prayers while Hanafi's still oppose it. I have shown sahih hadith which supports the opinion of other madhabs but I know you will still follow Hanafi opinion because that's more important for you than following Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This indicates arrogance ,rigidness and lack of desire to submit to the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) at all costs just because you have to defend your sect. That's wrong and that's not how a Muslim should be.

    Regarding your comment that I form my own opinions, it is false. I don't associate myself with any madhab that means I listen to scholars of all madhabs and compare their opinions to Quran and Sunnah to separate right from wrong. I try my best to follow what seems right and is always open to change my opinion if I can find a verse from Quran or Hadith that contradicts my belief, because Muslim is one who submits. So in reality I have adopted a universal religion and have gained access to lot more scholars in Islam who truly practice Quran and hadith. I have no enmity in my heart for Hanafi or Shafi or other madhabs. I happy pray behind a Hanafi Imam as well as a Shafi Imam as far as I know that they are following Quran and Sunnah. On the other hand, by following Hanafi madhab only you have restricted yourself to only one school of thought. Are they 100% right in everything? No, they are not and this is something even Imam Abu Hanifa has admitted and asked his student to follow Quran and Sunnah if they have a clear evidence against his rulings.

    Don't worry about me being alone. I am 100000000% committed to follow Quran and Sunnah. I trust in Allah and the teachings of His last Prophet (peace be upon him) and I am sure that's is enough for me. Quran says:
    But if they turn away, [O Muhammad], say, "Sufficient for me is Allah ; there is no deity except Him. On Him I have relied, and He is the Lord of the Great Throne.[Quran 9:129]
    Regarding post#21, I will reply that shortly.

    Ma'a Salama
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:32 PM.

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Caplets View Post
    السلام عليكم

    Does calling yourself a e.g. salafī (in and of itself) make you upon the way of the Salaf As-Sālih? Donate only to Salafī masjid's?

    https://youtu.be/WueeD5CzP5A

    (Duration 11 mins 54 secs)

    Q&A with Mufti Muhammad ibn Muneer.


    السلام علیکم




    The word 'Salaf' means a rightly guided Muslim of the first 3 generations as you probably know and 'Salafi' used to denote one who follows the path of the Salaf has never been used traditionally except in the last few decades or so by Ibn Abdul Wahabs movement

    Therefore the correct term to denote a rightly guided Muslim is either ahlus sunnah... or Sunni and InshAllah may Allah guide all Muslims to this saved sect amin

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    @Ahmed
    Assalam O Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh

    As promised below is my response to your post#21

    I can see that this post is based on pure ignorance and only proves why sects and following madhabs blindly are so dangerous in Islam. Calling those who declare themselves Muslims (Takfir) is strongly prohibited in the Quran and hadiths.

    Let's first see what declares one a Muslim.


    To be Muslim one is only required to pledge allegiance to the oneness of God and the truth of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)'s prophetic mission. There was no other requirement whatsoever. This is why Muslims have long believed that the Kalima (proclaiming oneness of God and prophethood of Muhammad) is the basis of the Islamic faith.

    The question of who would be counted as a Muslim came up during the first census in the State of Medina. Prophet Muhammad asked that anyone who claimed to be Muslim be counted as one. Their profession of Islam was all he required to be considered a part of the Muslim community. There was no religious test devised to test a claimant’s ‘Muslimness.’ Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) knew well that there were hypocrites living in Medina, some of whom were even conspiring against him. Prophet Muhammad knew that they did not even consider him a true prophet. Yet, not only did he never forbid them from identifying with the Muslims, he allowed them open access to his Mosque. Rather than forbid them from praying and punishing them for ‘posing as Muslim,’ he in fact prayed with them, and for them.

    There are other traditions that shed more light on this issue. Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said:

    Whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’, faces our Qibla (Mecca) during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have.[Bukhari]
    In another detailed narration, Prophet Muhammad defined both Islam and the tenets of faith:

    One day while Allah’s Apostle was sitting with the people, a man came to him walking and said, “O Allah’s Apostle. What is Belief?” The Prophet said, “Belief is to believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the meeting with Him, and to believe in the Resurrection.” The man asked, “O Allah’s Apostle What is Islam?” The Prophet replied, “Islam is to worship Allah and not worship anything besides Him, to offer prayers perfectly, to pay the obligatory alms i.e. Zakat and to fast the month of Ramadan. [Bukhari]
    The well-known five pillars of Islam, and the six articles of faith, are based on this and other similar traditions. The sayings of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) spell out how he defined a Muslim.

    Takfir & how Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) dealt with it:

    Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not denounce self-identifying Muslims as non-Muslims. Such rejection was the hallmark of his opponents.
    He (peace be upon him) repeatedly cautioned that judging someone’s truth or sincerity to their claim of Islam was a prerogative of God alone. Once, the famous general Khalid bin Waleed suggested to the Prophet that there were many people who outwardly professed Islam while there was no faith in their heart. Prophet Muhammad responded firmly:

    I have not been commanded to pierce through the hearts of people, nor to split their bellies (to look what is inside them) [Muslim]
    There is another famous incident of a Muslim killing a non-Muslim during a battle, despite the man having recited the Kalima. When Prophet Muhammad found out, he was furious. The Muslim soldier said:
    “O Messenger of Allah, that man read the Kalima merely to protect himself from our sword.”
    Prophet Muhammad reprimanded him:
    “Did you open his heart and look inside it?”
    Even our own prophet (peace be upon him) was not granted the authority to judge someone’s ‘Muslimness.’ God commanded in the Quran:
    The Arabs of the desert say, ‘We believe.’ Say, “You have not believed yet; but rather say, ‘We have accepted Islam,’ for the true belief has not yet entered into your hearts. [ Quran 49:14]
    This verse speaks of those Bedouins whom God Himself attests were completely faithless, yet were allowed to identify as Muslim.

    This prohibition of excommunication or Takfir is emphasized in the sayings of Prophet Muhammad, who equated such exclusion to murder.

    How then did this culture of social boycotts and excommunication (Takfir) spread in the Muslim world?

    Why do many Muslim groups promote exclusion and prejudice? Why do even so-called Islamic scholars judge the faith of other Muslim communities in such a nonchalant way? Do these clerics believe they are a higher authority than Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)?


    There are two ways these Muslims try to dismiss other Muslims as infidel.

    1. The first is by discarding Prophet Muhammad’s definitions and inventing others of their own.
    2. The second is by misrepresenting the beliefs of other Muslims and forcing them out of the Prophet’s definition.

    You made use of both above mentioned ways in your post to call Shias Kaffir. Where is Quran or hadith it is mentioned that one becomes Kaffir if they curse companions of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). If one reads hadith then we find that there were many companions who cursed each other. They even fought against each other but no one called hem Kaffir. Then why twisted our rules and laws only to label shias as kaffir?

    I will leave some questions for you to think:


    • You mentioned that rejecting a verse from Quran makes one Kaffir. Why are you apply that only to Shias? Why don't you look into your own backyard, i.e. the sub sect of Hanafi called Berelvis ( they form more than half of Hanafies). When Quran says that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a human being like you then what should we call those who consider Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) light? When Quran clearly says that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has died as all prophets have died before him, what would you call some of your Hanafi brother and sisters who think that prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is still alive. Not only prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), they also think many religious scholars are alive in their graves and they can ask them directly instead of asking Allah. Think about this before you start calling others Kaffir.
    • What should we call those who deny Sahih hadith just to protect their madhab? What should we call those who deny clear evidence from Quran and Sunnah against their madhab rulings?
    • Regarding cursing Sahaba, is this a rule you are going to use to declare someone Kaffir? Was it not done by companions of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) against each other? Some of the companions even fought against each other.


    That's why I say don't twist Islam just to defend your madhab and to call others kaffir. Leave it to Allah for judgement as He is best of the Judges. My advice is that you and I have not enough knowledge to start calling others Kaffir. Stay away from takfir if you can and don't listen to such scholars who promote such hate. Why I am saying so?
    Takfir is so dangerous that it can actually make one a non-Muslim as it is evident from authentic hadiths below:

    When a man calls his brother an unbeliever, it returns (at least) to one of them.
    Reference:: Sahih Muslim 60 a
    In-book reference: Book 1, Hadith 121
    USC-MSA web (English) reference: Book 1, Hadith 116
    And in another wording in the Two Sahihs and others:
    Whoever accuses someone of disbelief, or of being an enemy of Allah, while he is not like that, it will return back to him.
    Irony is that above quoted hadiths are in very first chapter of Sahih Muslim but Muslims will not take time to read the hadiths which our true scholars worked so hard to preserve for us with the mercy and blessings of Allah Subahanahu Wa Taala. They will choose to follow their so called scholars who are only promoting hate to divide the Muslim only to prove that their understanding of Islam is right and everyone else is wrong. This is how Hanafi's persecuted Shafies and Malikies in Ummaid and Abbasid Caliphate and that's how Hanafi madhab became madhab of majority of the Muslims because it was forced on them. Just read the history and educate yourself.

    Break the shackles of sects and be what Quran says to be, that is a Muslim:

    [LEFT]Leave the matters of judgment to Allah Subahanhu Wa Taala and don't be among those who promote sects with in Islam by calling others Kaffir. With that said I will again emphasize that unshackle yourself from following Islam blindly. Islam is a beautiful religion and invites others to use their intellect and spend time and energy to understand the beauty of Islam. It is a lame excuse that I don't know much about Islam and may go astray. I have often seen you responding to several fiq questions. Just like you can find answer to these question online, similarly you can find the answers to that particular question by other madhabs. You can also find the sources of their answers and compare those to Quran and Sunnah. I am sure that this will only help you to increase in your knowledge and end up following what is right based on Quran and Sunnah. It has becomes easy in this time and age, all you need is to put some time and effort to learn Islam. It is still way better than traveling thousands of miles just to learn one hadith.

    Be Muslim and stop following any sect/madhab if you are sincere to Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala. Quran says:

    And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.[Quran 3,103]
    The verse below has even more severe warning:
    Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only
    to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do
    . [Quran 6:159]


    The moment you call yourself Hanafi and others Shafi, Maliki and Hambali, Shia, Salafi etc., you are calling people to form sects. Quran does not call Muslims Hanafi, or Shafi or Maliki etc. but it calls them Muslims. Even followers of previous religions were called Muslims:

    But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]. [Quran 3:52]
    We are fighting to prove who is right? Hanafi or Maliki or Shafi or Hambali, just like Christians and Jews used to fight to prove that Ibrahim (peace be upon him) was Jew or Christian. Quran clearly says that Ibrahim (peace be upon him) was nothing but a Muslim:
    Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists.[Quran 3:67]
    From our discussion above, it is clear from Quran that there is no evidence for following any Imam except the best of all human beings Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). The followers of God's religion have always been called Muslims just like all previous Prophets were Muslims. What is wrong then with Muslims to insist on forming sects and divide the Muslims?

    Before I wrap up I will quote one more hadith:

    The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (the Boxthorn tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews. [Bukhari and Muslim]
    Notice the tree did not say O Hanafi Brother or O Sunni Brother. It said O Muslim.

    Final question for you:
    What will be madhab of Imam Mahdi and Jesus (peace be upon him)? Answer is simple and that's Muslim one who follows Quran and sunnah, that's the group which is saved. Join them before its too late.

    Sincerely wishing the best for you and other fellow Muslim brothers and sister,

    Ma'a Salama
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:52 PM.

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    @HabibUrrehman

    Walaikum assalam rahmatullahi barakatuh

    Brother I am dismayed and incredibly worried about your extremely unconventional stance regarding this issue. No Muslim says that rejecting Quranic verses is not kufr as Allah clearly says in Quran that Quran is complete and that it will be protected

    No Muslim says either that one of the four schools of thoughts, Hanafi, rejects Quranic verses. This is madness on your part brother and I don't know what 'scholars' you've consulted but there seems to be consensus on this issue in Sunni Islam, look:

    “Disbelief’ includes:

    (1) reviling the religion of Islam, or Allah Most High, or the Prophet (Allah Most
    High bless him and give him peace);

    (2) denying any matter necessarily known to be of the religion of Islam, that is
    established by a text from either the Holy Qur’an or mutawatir[4] hadith,
    provided the text is incontestable as evidence^] and there is no pretext (shubha)
    for disagreement about it; [6]

    (3) denying any matter established by unanimous consensus of all the prophetic
    Companions (Sahaba), provided it its unanimity is unquestionably established,
    and it was explicitly stated by all, not merely tacitly agreed to;

    (4) denying the existence of Allah Most High;

    (5) believing that things cause effects through themselves or by their nature,
    without the will of Allah Most High;

    (6) denying a matter of unquestionable scholarly consensus (ijma‘ qaf i);

    (7) denying the existence of the angels, the jinn, or the heavens;

    (8) believing something intrinsically unlawful whose its unlawfulness is
    unquestionably established, such as drinking wine, to be lawful (halal)— as
    opposed to [something not intrinsically unlawful, such as] the property of
    another [which is not unlawful in itself], for it is unlawful for an extrinsic reason
    [namely, the other’s ownership of it];

    (9) sarcasm about any ruling of Sacred Law, [7] or quoting a statement of unbelief
    —even jokingly, without believing it— when one’s intention is sarcasm [about
    religious matters];

    (10) demeaning any prophet, or saying that prophethood is acquired [by spiritual
    works];

    (11) CALUMNY AGAINST AISHA THE WIFE OF THE PROPHET (ALLAH MOST HIGH BLESS HIM
    AND GIVE HIM PEACE);

    (12) or denying that the Prophet’s message (Allah Most High bless him and give
    him peace) was intended for the entire world

    https://archive.org/stream/NuhHaMimK...akfir_djvu.txt

    Hazrat Mufti Saheb says,

    “First type: Are those who claim to be Muslim, but reject something which has been necessarily known to be from the religion. They hold firmly, for example, that the Prophethood is continued after Nabi Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) and they believe in the prophethood of one of the Dajjals who has claimed prophethood after our Noble Prophet, seal of the prophethood sallallahu alayhi wasallam, like the Qadîyânîs; or they hold firmly that the Noble Quran which we have today is changed, Al’Iyaazubillah. And that our Quraan is not the real on, like what some of the extremists among the Shîas say; or they hold firmly (in the aqeeda of ) Aloohiya or some of the specific attributes of it being in one of the humans, like what is attributed to Alawiyeen(Alawis) and others besides them. THEN THESE ALL ARE NOT MUSLIMS AND IT IS NECESSARY TO MAKE TAKFIR OF THEM,

    From the above we understand adequately that Mufti Saheb has not endorsed the Amman Message in its totality, though he has elaborated the Sharii stance of Takfeer. This first category includes those upon whom takfeer can be made, RATHER IT IS NECESSARY. …THAT IS TO SAY, TAKFIR WILL BE NECESSARY UPON THEM AS WELL.

    Madrassah In’aamiyyah

    https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/is...-message%C2%94

    Those shia who have heretical beliefs like, for example, the position that the Qur'an has been corrupted or that Hadhrat Jibril has made a mistake in bringing the revelation or if they insult sayyida A'isha ra - there is no doubt in their disbelief. But, the position that all shi'a hold these kufr beliefs is not established with accurate investigation.

    On the other hand calling someone a kafir is an extremely serious issue and that is why a great deal of caution is necessary. If we say that someone may even be doing taqiya then he may be a kafir with Allah due to his hidden aqa'id but fatwa will be given on his apparent statements only and that is why for 1400 years the ulema of ahl al sunna have not made unrestricted takfir of shia but rather said that those shia who hold kufr beliefs alone are kafir. This has also been the tariqa of the ulema of deoband AND THE MAJORITY OF THE SCHOLARS DID NOT FIND SUFFICIENT PROOFS TO CHANGE THIS METHOD. This is why dar al uloom karachi and hadhrat mufti azam maulana mufti shafi sahab have, based on the tariqa of the akabir, given fatwa that those shia who hold kufr beliefs are kafir but unrestricted takfir of the shia is not established according to the majority of the ulema.

    However, this does not mean that the shi'as misguidance is in any doubt. Those shia have not been labelled kafir but are without doubt misguided and astray.

    May Allah protect the Muslims from this misguidance. Ameen. Was-salam.

    [*]Mufti Muhammad Taqi Uthmani 14/1/1412 (Dar ul-Ulum Karachi)


    Read more: http://ahlussunnah.boards.net/thread...#ixzz65oVqvayF


    Firstly, hereunder are the criteria for declaring someone a non-Muslim:

    When a person openly calls himself a non-Muslim, i.e. he accepts that he is a Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc.
    When a person negates, through his words or actions, something unanimously proven through Quran and Hadith. He will not be regarded a Muslim even though he claims to be one.
    Jawahirul Fiqh Vol:1 Pg:23 (Maktabah Darul Uloom Karachi)

    Secondly, although the Shias claim that they are Muslims, most of them have beliefs that negate the clear cut principles of Islam. Some of these beliefs are listed below:

    1. They regard the Quran to be incomplete, and say that most of the Quran has been changed.

    2. They regard most of the senior Sahabah (Radiyallahu Anhum), including the first three Khalifas, as murtads (those who have left the fold of Islam).

    3. They regard the status of their twelve Imams to be higher than the status of the Ambiya (Alaihim Assalaatu Wassalaam).

    Aaapke Masaail aur Unka Hal Vol:1 Pg:188 (Maktabah Bayyinat)

    Thereafter, Shias are categorised into three groups in regards to the ruling they fall under:

    1. Those about whom it is certain that they negate the principles of Islam. Such Shias will be regarded as non-Muslims even if they do claim otherwise. Shias have the habit of taqiyyah (i.e. they regard it virtuous to lie in order to safeguard their beliefs); therefore, their word will not be accepted, if reliable sources prove otherwise.

    It is not permissible to have inter-marriages with such Shias, Janazah Salaah will not be performed upon their deceased, the meat from the animals slaughtered by them will not be halaal and all other laws confined to Muslims will not apply to them.

    2. Those who do not negate any principles of Islam, but have a difference of opinion with the Muslims on saying that Ali (Radiyallahu Anhu) was the most superior amongst all the Sahabah (Radiyallahu Anhum). Such Shias will not be regarded as non-Muslims, but they will still be regarded as fasiqs (those who transgress the laws of Islam openly).

    The laws confined to Muslims will apply on them, but it will not be advisable to have inter-marriages with them.

    3. Those whose beliefs cannot be confirmed. They will not be regarded as Muslims nor will they be regarded as non-Muslims.

    As a matter of precaution, inter-marriages with them will not be permissible and the meat from the animals slaughtered by them will not be halaal.

    Jawaahirul Fiqh Vol:1 Pg:59-63 (Maktabah Darul Uloom Karachi)

    As far as ties with Shias are concerned, it is not permissible to have close friendship with them. However, Islam encourages Muslims to have good conduct with them, and show good character.

    And Allah knows best

    Wassalam

    Ml. M. Jawed Iqbal,
    Student Darul Iftaa

    Checked and Approved by:

    Mufti Ebrahim Desai
    Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In’aamiyyah

    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/620

    The following are the beliefs of the Jafari Shias.

    1. The Quran is incomplete.[1]
    2. The Imam is superior to the Prophets.
    3. The noble Sahaba of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alaihi wasallam) became renegades (Murtad) after the messenger’s demise.[ii]
    4. Hazrat Ayesha (Radiyallahu Anha) was not innocent from the accusation of Zina.[iii]
    5. The belief that Jibraeel (Alaihi Salam) erred in sending revelation to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alaihi wasallam).[iv]

    The above beliefs are kufr.

    And Allaah Ta’aala Knows Best.
    Akhyar Uddin Student, Darul Iftaa Buffalo, New York, USA
    Checked and approved by
    Mufti Ebrahim Desai.
    http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/42906
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:30 PM.

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    @ Ahmed
    Wa Alaikum Assalam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh Brother Ahmed,

    I wish you could have read my post with an open mind. That's why blindly following a madhab is a cancer for Muslims these days because to follow the ideology of your madhab one will even reject clear verses of Quran and Sahih Hadith. I quoted several hadiths which clearly tell us to stay away from Takfir and you are rejecting those hadiths and listen to your scholars who are saying to do takfir? Who are we supposed to follow? Our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) or your scholars?

    You and I are not judge of the day of Judgement. Leave Judgement to Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala as He alone knows everything and He alone knows what is in the hearts. You and I have no ability to know what's in the heart of other people and we have no ability to know the circumstances of each and every person in the world. As a matter of fact we don't even know ourselves to full potential. When we don't even know our own self then why we are rushing to judge others? Please stay away from Takfir as Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) himself refrained from this and taught this to their companions as well. If any scholar says that Takfir is fard based on their understanding of Islam then they are proclaiming that they know Islam better than our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Please stay away from such scholars. We need scholars who unite the Ummah not the one's who divide them into several sects.

    I also gave you some points to think and if you would have pondered over those then according to the rules established by your scholars even some of the companions of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) would be outside the fold of Islam (Astaghfir ullah). Vast majority of your Hanafi friends will also be outside the fold of Islam. If each sect will start calling others Kaffir then who will be Muslim? You clearly don't see how they are promoting hate among Muslims by pushing their own ideology at the name of Islam.

    Anyways I love you brother and will keep praying that may Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala guide us all to follow Quran, none other than Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and those scholars who practice Quran and Sunnah to unite the Muslims.

    Ma'a Salama

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    taha_'s Avatar
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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Assalam o Alaikum Rahamatullahi Barakutuhu.

    Please stop turning this post into fitnah. Brother Habib and Ahmed. You know that if you stop argue, even if you are right In sha Allah you may get reward of paradise.. It is very bad to argue, as it creates ill feeling and hurts each other

    Prophet Peace be upon him said
    I guarantee a house on the outskirts of Paradise for one who abandons arguments even if he is right.
    Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4800, Grade: Sahih



    Seriously. Dont turn any posts into fitnah with arguement. Being terrified of takfir i can't bear reading this.

    JazakAllah khair

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Assalam o Alaikum Rahmatullahi Barakuthu.

    Islam is simple and forgiving religion. Seriously, nowsday in 21st century. Society has made it difficult religion, extremist scholars, mullah etc, made it difficult. Allah and His Messenger did not order us to make everything difficult.

    This is unfair, it's so unfortunable. Can we just not talk about anything that may be fitnah like takfir?

    and no I am not against scholars and mullahi and other religious leaders, I am talking about the extremist who made Islam difficult.. it's sad indeed that there are alot of people who left islam. For now, let us spread and promote Quran and Sunnah with love and mercy, compassinante sincreely for Allah only.

    JazakAllah khair.

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Quote Originally Posted by taha_ View Post
    Assalam o Alaikum Rahamatullahi Barakutuhu.

    Please stop turning this post into fitnah. Brother Habib and Ahmed. You know that if you stop argue, even if you are right In sha Allah you may get reward of paradise.. It is very bad to argue, as it creates ill feeling and hurts each other

    Prophet Peace be upon him said
    I guarantee a house on the outskirts of Paradise for one who abandons arguments even if he is right.
    Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4800, Grade: Sahih



    Seriously. Dont turn any posts into fitnah with arguement. Being terrified of takfir i can't bear reading this.

    JazakAllah khair
    Assalam O Alaikum Brother Taha,

    My intention is not to argue but to speak for the truth. And the hadith which you are quoting is for personal dealings. If someone wrongs me, I will be happy to forgive and ignore to avoid any arguments. This discussion is about Quran and Sunnah. If we don't speak for the truth, posts which brother Ahmed is posting will lead to bigger Fitna. Muslims will start labeling others as Kaffir. It is our duty to call people to good and forbid them from evil. Quran say:
    Let there be a group of people among you who invite to goodness, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong. [Quran 3:104]
    Anyways Allah knows my intentions. I love Brother Ahmad and is only advising him out of my love for him. I also understand your intention and don't mind when you tried to stop this debate. Trust me I am not mad because I don't keep grudges in my heart for anyone. Anyways, I have said enough on this topic. It is up to brother Ahmed to follow or reject it and we can agree to disagree. I will leave it to Allah to resolve our differences as Quran says:
    Indeed, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.[Quran 32:25]
    May Allah guide us all to true message of Islam. Ameen!

    Ma'A Salama

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    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    @HabibUrrehman

    Brother this is very serious as it involves what the CONSENSUS consider kufr

    Any fatwas that you have read is by politically motivated fatwas that sometimes comes out of places like al azhar influenced by the government's of those countries. How can, when Allah says in the Quran that Quran is complete and that it will be protected, and then some people say Quran is not complete and its corrupted, not be anything but kufr by the absolute consensus?

    And there are other very serious matters such as calumny against Aisha (ra) when Allah (swt) himself exonerated her in the Qur'an.

    Now these parts of the above fatwas:

    ... THEN THESE ALL ARE NOT MUSLIMS AND IT IS NECESSARY TO MAKE TAKFIR OF THEM,

    ... RATHER IT IS NECESSARY. …THAT IS TO SAY, TAKFIR WILL BE NECESSARY UPON THEM AS WELL.

    Say that it is NECESSARY to do... because its related to this:

    *Now the following is regarding kuffar religions, however the ruling of not recognising kufr as kufr applies generally:

    Imam Nawawi notes:
    "Someone who does not believe that whoever follows another religion besides Islam is an unbeliever (like Christians), or doubts that such a person is an unbeliever, or considers their sect to be valid, is himself an unbeliever (kafir) even if he manifests Islam and believes in it" (Rawda al-talibin, 10.70).

    And that's what puts you in great danger bro, so as you can see this is no longer 'who can beat who in argument' but its a very serious matter between iman and kufr and jannah and jahannum

    Ya Allah! Save us all ameen!!!!!
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:45 PM.

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    @ Ahmed

    Assalam O Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh

    You can see how weak your argument is. I am giving references from Quran and hadith which shows prohibition to do Takfir. In response, you are showing me fatwas from scholars? What should be our criteria? Quran and Hadith or view of scholars which have no basis in Quran and hadith.
    Show me a single hadith and verse from Quran which clearly supports your view that Muslims should do Takfir? If you can't then I reverse your argument on you that what will you call someone who will reject Sahih Hadith and verses from Quran?

    Anyways it is interesting that not all Hanafi's support your views. I understand Urdu and recently heard a video clip from Molana Tariq Jamil who is well know Hanafi scholar, listen to this clip and hope at least you will understand his language better than mine:



    Ameen to your duas. I will pray for your guidance and you can pray for me. Love you for the sake of Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala.
    Ma'a Salama

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    I was going to start a new thread, but I'd rather just explain it here.

    Here is what 'Sunni Islam' is all about:

    The name ahlus sunnah wal jamaah or Sunni for short, came about as a result of Muslims breaking up into many sects, so if there are many deviant sects all claiming to represent the true Islam, then it's necessary to give the rightly guided sect a distinguishing name which denotes that they are the original and main body of Muslims, and as we've seen, this name was used by Prophet (saw) too as a reference to the future rightly guided group.

    When there's many deviant sects.... Its not enough just to say we are Muslims who follow Quran and hadith as every sect says the same so which one would you follow?

    Sunni Islam consists of four schools of thoughts and these are not different sects. They are different schools as they differ in a minority of opinions. These differences are all valid and part of the mercy and flexibility in Islam.

    So the practical side of Sunni Islam consists of the four schools of fiqh, Hanafi, Shafiee, Maaliki and Hanbali, and the aqeeda is athari, aqeedah Tahawiyyah, ashari and maturidi. Now our Salafi brethren claim to follow the athari creed, however there is a dispute where mainstream Sunni Scholars say it is not the original athari creed they follow

    Maturidi and ashari creeds just slightly differ in a few opinions and these differences are mainly semantic. These 2 creeds are dialectical creeds based on athari and Tahawi creed so basically they do not contradict one another and all of them are ahlus sunnah creeds.

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    The name ahlus sunnah wal jamaah or Sunni for short, came about as a result of Muslims breaking up into many sects, so if there are many deviant sects all claiming to represent the true Islam, then it's necessary to give the rightly guided sect a distinguishing name which denotes that they are the original and main body of Muslims, and as we've seen, this name was used by Prophet (saw) too as a reference to the future rightly guided group.
    Assalam O Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh Brother Ahmed,

    Are you saying that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) used the word "ahlus sunnah wal jamaah?"
    Please give me which hadith is this one, make sure to include Arabic text because I know how people play with translation to get the meaning they want.

    Below is an link which explains what Abduallah ibn Masood's interpretation of the word Jamaa'h, you may find that interesting because it is quite the opposite to what your scholars have told you - "majority group."
    https://www.islamweb.net/en/hajj/article/151209/

    Between: I am not against following any madhab if it is done to unite the Muslim Ummah and to follow Quran and Sunnah. My issue is with blindly following a madhab to such a degree that one rejects sahih hadiths only to support their own school of thought. It does not just stop there, Its goes on to promote takfir and then killing others at the name of Islam. Anyways I can't change your mind. I wish you all the best and will continue praying for our guidance.
    May be its best that you send me a private message if you wish to continue this discussion.

    Ma'a Salama

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    @HabibUrrehman

    Walikum assalam rahmatullahi barakatuh

    the ahlus sunnah isn't a sect in the sense where its deviated from the original Islam, its only a sect as the Prophet (saw) himself mentioned it as a sect (ummah will break up into 73 Sects, 72 will go to hell and 1 will go to Paradise), so it's a sect in the 'group' meaning of the word as, if there are deviant sects, the original Muslims become a distinct group.

    If you follow the hadith, then the hadith is very clear that the rightly guided Muslims who follow the sunnah will be the JAMAAH, I. E, the group that has the largest group of Scholars.

    'Jamaah' means the largest group or the overwhelming majority and since there are hadiths that say adhere to or follow the jamaah, then jamaah has to refer to Scholars as laymen are not followed. This is the opinion of the majority of scholars:

    Imam al-Tirmidhi (Rahimahullah) said:

    “The explanation of al-Jama’ah according to the people of knowledge: They are the people of fiqh, knowledge and Hadith.” (Sunan al-Tirmidhi, 4/2167; Ahmad Shakir ed’n)

    Imam Nawawi (d. 676/1277, Rahimahullah) said in his Sharh Muslim (vol. 2, pg. 143):

    “The group of people (mentioned in the above Hadith) consists of scholars, jurisprudents, authorities on Hadith, those who enjoin Good (Maroof) and forbid Evil (Munkar) and all such persons who do good deeds. Such righteous persons may be found spread all over the world.”

    Imam Bukhari (Rahimahullah) stated in his Sahih (vol. 9, chapter. 10, English ed’n),

    “The statement of the Prophet (Peace be upon him): ‘A group of my followers will remain victorious in their struggle in the cause of the Truth.’ Those are the religious(ly) learned men (Ahl ul-Ilm).”

    Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Rahimahullah) said about this group:

    “If it is not the people of Hadith, then I do not know who they may be.” (Sahih Muslim Sharif-Mukhtasar Sharh Nawawi, vol. 5, pg. 183, W. Zaman)

    (13) Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying:

    “Follow the great mass (as-Sawad al-Azam) for he who kept himself away from it, in fact would be thrown in Hell Fire.” (Ibn Majah; vide: Mishkat, 1/174, by A.H. Siddiqui).

    The translator of Mishkat-ul-Masabih (A.H. Siddiqui, pg. 113) said in the footnote to the last Hadith:

    “There is a good deal of difference of opinion as to what the term Sawad al-Azam implies. The overwhelming majority of the scholars are of the view that As-Sawad al-Azam means the largest group of the learned scholars and pious persons whose opinions are held in high esteem in Islam.”

    Imam al-Bayhaqi (d. 458/1066; Rahimahullah) stated in his: The Seventy-Seven Branches of Faith (pg. 42-3), under the fiftieth branch of faith (50 – Holding firmly to the position of the majority): “God Most High has said: Hold fast, all together, to the rope of God, and do not be disunited. [3:103]. Muslim (Rahimahullah) relates on the authority of Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, ‘Whoever is disobedient, and departs from the majority, and then dies, has died in a state of Jahiliyya.‘ He also relates the following Hadith on the authority of Ibn Shurayh (Allah be pleased with him): ‘After I am gone, there will come days of corruption and turmoil. When you see people damaging the unity of the Community of Muhammad (Peace be upon him), you must fight them, whoever they may happen to be.‘

    Abdal Hakim Murad (the translator of the above book) said in the footnote to the fiftieth branch of faith: ‘Orthodoxy in Islam is defined as the doctrine of ahl al-sunna wa’l jama’a, the People of the Sunna and the Community. To know whether a doctrine or practise is orthodox or heretical, the Muslim is required to find out whether it is recognised by the majority of Muslim scholars

    http://masud.co.uk/who-are-the-ahl-a...ah-wal-jamaah/


    Once again I'll have to bring up our Salafi brethren here, as they say 'the jamaah' can even be 1 person, this view is very faulty as it negates the wisdom of the Prophet (saw), for when he was asked how to recognise the rightly guided group in times of many sects, he would have mentioned a clear sign of the group, something which they can be easily recognised by and if 'jamaah' can even be 1 person or a minority group then this still leaves us unclear about who the rightly guided group are as every group claims to follow Quran and hadith. So this is why, along with mentioning that the rightly guided group will follow his and sahabas sunnah, he also mentioned that they will be the largest group and guess who the largest group are? That's right, it's the Sunni Islam of the four madhabs in fiqh and ashari and maturidi in aqeedah (these two aqeedah also incorporate the athari and Tahawi aqeedah)

    And you mentioned that Allah will not punish sincere Muslims, however once sufficient evidence is provided against fallacies, then can a person remain sincere? Maybe they can be deluded into thinking they are sincere

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post

    Are you saying that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) used the word "ahlus sunnah wal jamaah?" Please give me which hadith is this one, make sure to include Arabic text because I know how people play with translation to get the meaning they want.

    'jamaah' is mentioned in few hadiths and 'those who follow sunnah' in others, don't you see together the description is, people of sunnah and the jamaah? This is how all the Islamic scholars understand it, even the Salafi and ahle hadith don't dispute that so if you want to establish another sect (as that's what it basically is if one created new opinions) and disagree then you're welcome to jahunum (as that's where creating new sects lead)

    And another point is, don't you see, in order to be united, we have to hold on together to the same aqeedah as differing in aqeeda is what creates new sects, as one dissents and breaks away from the agreed upon Islam

    You seem to be advocating, whatever Muslims believe in, just embrace them all and that's what unites the Muslims. This is what the modernist Munafiqoun advocate so all deviant views can be passed of as Islam and this is common sense to understand brother so I don't know how a person can be 'sincere' while not wanting to understand that. Some Muslims may even think you're an undercover modernist pretending to be hardcore Salafi type but you will vociferously defend the perrenialistic interests of modernists to embrace all deviant sects the way you're going on

    And I'll exit this topic by requesting all to read the following:

    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askmufti/81778

    Last edited by Ahmed.; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:42 AM.

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    @HabibUrrehman

    Walikum assalam rahmatullahi barakatuh

    the ahlus sunnah isn't a sect in the sense where its deviated from the original Islam, its only a sect as the Prophet (saw) himself mentioned it as a sect (ummah will break up into 73 Sects, 72 will go to hell and 1 will go to Paradise), so it's a sect in the 'group' meaning of the word as, if there are deviant sects, the original Muslims become a distinct group.

    If you follow the hadith, then the hadith is very clear that the rightly guided Muslims who follow the sunnah will be the JAMAAH, I. E, the group that has the largest group of Scholars.

    'Jamaah' means the largest group or the overwhelming majority and since there are hadiths that say adhere to or follow the jamaah, then jamaah has to refer to Scholars as laymen are not followed. This is the opinion of the majority of scholars:

    Imam al-Tirmidhi (Rahimahullah) said:

    “The explanation of al-Jama’ah according to the people of knowledge: They are the people of fiqh, knowledge and Hadith.” (Sunan al-Tirmidhi, 4/2167; Ahmad Shakir ed’n)

    Imam Nawawi (d. 676/1277, Rahimahullah) said in his Sharh Muslim (vol. 2, pg. 143):

    “The group of people (mentioned in the above Hadith) consists of scholars, jurisprudents, authorities on Hadith, those who enjoin Good (Maroof) and forbid Evil (Munkar) and all such persons who do good deeds. Such righteous persons may be found spread all over the world.”

    Imam Bukhari (Rahimahullah) stated in his Sahih (vol. 9, chapter. 10, English ed’n),

    “The statement of the Prophet (Peace be upon him): ‘A group of my followers will remain victorious in their struggle in the cause of the Truth.’ Those are the religious(ly) learned men (Ahl ul-Ilm).”

    Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Rahimahullah) said about this group:

    “If it is not the people of Hadith, then I do not know who they may be.” (Sahih Muslim Sharif-Mukhtasar Sharh Nawawi, vol. 5, pg. 183, W. Zaman)

    (13) Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying:

    “Follow the great mass (as-Sawad al-Azam) for he who kept himself away from it, in fact would be thrown in Hell Fire.” (Ibn Majah; vide: Mishkat, 1/174, by A.H. Siddiqui).

    The translator of Mishkat-ul-Masabih (A.H. Siddiqui, pg. 113) said in the footnote to the last Hadith:

    “There is a good deal of difference of opinion as to what the term Sawad al-Azam implies. The overwhelming majority of the scholars are of the view that As-Sawad al-Azam means the largest group of the learned scholars and pious persons whose opinions are held in high esteem in Islam.”

    Imam al-Bayhaqi (d. 458/1066; Rahimahullah) stated in his: The Seventy-Seven Branches of Faith (pg. 42-3), under the fiftieth branch of faith (50 – Holding firmly to the position of the majority): “God Most High has said: Hold fast, all together, to the rope of God, and do not be disunited. [3:103]. Muslim (Rahimahullah) relates on the authority of Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, ‘Whoever is disobedient, and departs from the majority, and then dies, has died in a state of Jahiliyya.‘ He also relates the following Hadith on the authority of Ibn Shurayh (Allah be pleased with him): ‘After I am gone, there will come days of corruption and turmoil. When you see people damaging the unity of the Community of Muhammad (Peace be upon him), you must fight them, whoever they may happen to be.‘

    Abdal Hakim Murad (the translator of the above book) said in the footnote to the fiftieth branch of faith: ‘Orthodoxy in Islam is defined as the doctrine of ahl al-sunna wa’l jama’a, the People of the Sunna and the Community. To know whether a doctrine or practise is orthodox or heretical, the Muslim is required to find out whether it is recognised by the majority of Muslim scholars

    http://masud.co.uk/who-are-the-ahl-a...ah-wal-jamaah/


    Once again I'll have to bring up our Salafi brethren here, as they say 'the jamaah' can even be 1 person, this view is very faulty as it negates the wisdom of the Prophet (saw), for when he was asked how to recognise the rightly guided group in times of many sects, he would have mentioned a clear sign of the group, something which they can be easily recognised by and if 'jamaah' can even be 1 person or a minority group then this still leaves us unclear about who the rightly guided group are as every group claims to follow Quran and hadith. So this is why, along with mentioning that the rightly guided group will follow his and sahabas sunnah, he also mentioned that they will be the largest group and guess who the largest group are? That's right, it's the Sunni Islam of the four madhabs in fiqh and ashari and maturidi in aqeedah (these two aqeedah also incorporate the athari and Tahawi aqeedah)

    And you mentioned that Allah will not punish sincere Muslims, however once sufficient evidence is provided against fallacies, then can a person remain sincere? Maybe they can be deluded into thinking they are sincere




    'jamaah' is mentioned in few hadiths and 'those who follow sunnah' in others, don't you see together the description is, people of sunnah and the jamaah? This is how all the Islamic scholars understand it, even the Salafi and ahle hadith don't dispute that so if you want to establish another sect (as that's what it basically is if one created new opinions) and disagree then you're welcome to jahunum (as that's where creating new sects lead)

    And another point is, don't you see, in order to be united, we have to hold on together to the same aqeedah as differing in aqeeda is what creates new sects, as one dissents and breaks away from the agreed upon Islam

    You seem to be advocating, whatever Muslims believe in, just embrace them all and that's what unites the Muslims. This is what the modernist Munafiqoun advocate so all deviant views can be passed of as Islam and this is common sense to understand brother so I don't know how a person can be 'sincere' while not wanting to understand that. Some Muslims may even think you're an undercover modernist pretending to be hardcore Salafi type but you will vociferously defend the perrenialistic interests of modernists to embrace all deviant sects the way you're going on

    And I'll exit this topic by requesting all to read the following:

    https://islamqa.org/hanafi/askmufti/81778

    Assalam O Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

    First of all you ignored what a Abdullah ibn Masood understood from the word Jaamah. Whole Hanafi school of thought is pretty much based on following what Ibn Masood (RA) did. But because it goes against your narrative, yet again you ignored it. That's the level of intellectual dis-honesty we are dealing with. Opinion of Ibn Masood has been explained in the video link below, if you are interested:


    “…all of them will be in the Fire except for one, and that is the Jama’ah.”
    The Jama’ah refers to anyone who is upon the truth even if it is just one person. A gathering of large numbers in itself is not an indication that they are upon the truth. Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala said:
    وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَن فِي الْأَرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ۚ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَخْرُصُونَ
    “And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the path of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.” (Al-An’am: 116)
    And He said:
    وَمَا أَكْثَرُ النَّاسِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتَ بِمُؤْمِنِينَ
    “And most of mankind will not believe even if you desire it eagerly.” (Yoosuf: 103)

    And His saying:

    وَمَا وَجَدْنَا لِأَكْثَرِهِم مِّنْ عَهْدٍ ۖ وَإِن وَجَدْنَا أَكْثَرَهُمْ لَفَاسِقِينَ
    “And We did not find for most of them any covenant; but indeed, We found most of them defiantly disobedient.” (Al-A’raf: 102)
    So attention is not given to numbers, rather attention is given to those who are upon the truth even if they are small in number in a given time or place. So even if there is just one person, he can be considered as the Jama’ah.
    It was said:
    “And who are they O Allah’s Messenger?” He responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.”
    So this is the correct path: whoever is upon that which the Messenger and his Companions were upon, he is the Jama’ah.
    They never celebrated Mawlid yet you do, so should I ask if you are part of Jama'ah?

    Second, thanks for all the quotes. None of them specifically used the word "ahl al Sunnah wal Jaamah." and that was my point. Since the dawn of Islamic culture and civilization, beginning with the Prophet's era, Muslims coined different terms in order to describe those who followed the religious path trodden by the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions, and those who did otherwise. Some of the terms articulated for the purpose were: ahl al-qiblah (the people of the Qiblah, as a symbol of one vision, purpose and orientation), ahl al-sunnah (the people of the Prophet's Sunnah), ahl ta'ah Allah (the people who duly obey Allah), ahl al-wafa' bi ahd Allah (the people who fulfill their covenant with Allah), ahl al-tawhid (the people of Allah's Oneness); ahl al-iman (the people of faith), ahl al-bid'ah (the people of religious innovations), ahl al-furqah (the people of separation and schism), ahl al-ahwa' (the people who followed their vain desires). Of these idioms, most commonly utilized were ahl al-sunnah for true believers and the true followers of the Qur'an and Sunnah, and ahl al-bid'ah as well as ahl al-furqah for those who deviated from the clearly and straightforwardly delineated Islamic right path. In all probability, the first person who in academic circles used officially the expression ahl al-sunnah wa al-jama'ah was Imam Abu Ja'far al-Tahawi (d. 321 AH/ 933 CE) who in the introduction to his treatise on Islamic creed or aqidah (al-'Aqidah al-Tahawiyyah) said that the book was an exposition of the creed of the ahl al-sunnah wa al-jama'ah in accordance with the understanding of Muslim jurists.

    Third point, I gave you many references from hadith which clearly say to combine prayers when there is a valid excuse. Yet you will not do so because it goes against your creed. Should I say you follow the Sunnah?
    I gave several references from hadith which say to stay away from takfir, yet you are pushing so hard for it. Should I say you follow the Sunnah?
    People of Quran and sunnah are those who follow the teachings of Quran and Sunnah when it is shown to them that those are authentic. They don't keep arguing just to prove they are right, most often their arguments are baseless because they bring only opinions of their scholars and can't bring anything from Quran and Sunnah because they know that there is none to support their view.

    I have seen how it works. When you talk to non-Muslims then you say there are more than 25% Muslims in the world. It includes everyone who calls him/herself a Muslim whether shia or sunni. When you argue with shias then all Sunnies are the only guided people. When you talk to Sunnies then only Hanafi are the right madhab. When you argue with Hanafi then Berelvi call Deobandi kaffir and vice versa. That's the reality of sects within Islam. The only way you can unite, is when hold on to Quran and Sunnah. There is consensus among Muslim that Quran is preserved and Sahih hadiths are authentic sayings of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Follow them and stop labelling others you don't agree with your opinion as Kaffir.

    Let me close my post with following verse from Quran:

    فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا
    And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best way and best in result.” (An-Nisa: 59)
    I don't want to argue further on this forum as there are all sorts of people who come on this forum. Some of those are non-Muslims, while others are very sensitive people whose heart cry when they see such arguments between the Muslims. I have shown you the path, it is up to you to follow or not to follow. There is absolutely no compulsion in the religion. You can believe in whatever you want to believe. I love you purely for the sake of Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala and because you are a Muslim. That's all which binds us together, otherwise I don't know anything else about you. Let's agree on what's common between us which is lot more and keep asking Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala to guide us.

    I am not saying I am perfect and I know everything. I may be wrong. May Allah soften my heart and guide me to the truth. Ameen!

    Ma'a Salama
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:23 PM.

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    Re: Combating The Cancer Of Sectarianism : The Muslims Are One Party

    @HabibUrrehman

    Brother I didn't mean that you are REALLY welcome to jahannum when I said it I meant it as a warning!

    And this is really really my last post here, look how another hadith doesn't say the word 'jamaah' but elaborates by saying 'the great mass', this hadith corroborates that 'jamaah' means, the majority:

    (13) Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying:

    “Follow the great mass (as-Sawad al-Azam) for he who kept himself away from it, in fact would be thrown in Hell Fire.” (Ibn Majah; vide: Mishkat, 1/174, by A.H. Siddiqui).

    The translator of Mishkat-ul-Masabih (A.H. Siddiqui, pg. 113) said in the footnote to the last Hadith:

    “There is a good deal of difference of opinion as to what the term Sawad al-Azam implies. The overwhelming majority of the scholars are of the view that As-Sawad al-Azam means the largest group of the learned scholars and pious persons whose opinions are held in high esteem in Islam.”

    The following hadiths imply that 'jamaah' means majority too as they're basically telling us, the larger the group, the better so one should stick with the largest group:

    (11) And Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) reported from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that, “Two are better than one, and three better than two; so stick to the Jama’ah for verily Allah, Most Great and Glorious, will only unite my nation on guidance.” (Collected by Ahmad)

    (7) ‘Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported that on one occasion Allah’s Messenger (Peace and blessings be upon him) stood up among them and said, “Whoever among you desires the centre of paradise should keep close to the Jama’ah for the Devil closely accompanies the solitary individual and is more distant from two.” (Collected by Imam Tirmidhi)

    And Imam al-Munawi spells it out for us as to what those hadiths means:

    Imam al-Azizi (d. 1070/1660; Rahimahullah) quoted Imam al-Munawi’s (d. 1031/1622; Rahimahullah) commentary to the last Hadith in his al-Siraj al-munir sharh al-Jami al-saghir (3.449), as follows:- Allah’s hand is over the group

    (al-Azizi): Munawi says, “Meaning his protection and preservation of them, signifying that the collectivity of the people of Islam are in Allah’s fold, so be also in Allah’s shelter, in the midst of them, and do not separate yourselves from them.” The rest of the Hadith, according to the one who first recorded it (Tirmidhi), is:-

    and whoever descents from them departs to hell.

    Meaning that whoever diverges from the overwhelming majority concerning what is lawful or unlawful and on which the Community does not differ has slipped off the path of guidance and this will lead him to hell.” (vide: The Reliance of the Traveller, pg. 25)

    Peace out. Salam!

    PS: the following hadith says the word 'the masses' too as well as jamaah, leaving no doubt that its the largest mass we stick to:

    (10) Mu’adh ibn Jabal (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah’s Messenger (Peace be upon him) said, “The Devil is like a wolf among humans as a wolf is among sheep; it snatches the stray sheep. So beware of the paths which branch off and adhere to the Jama’ah, the masses and the masjid.” (Collected by Imam Ahmad)

    Imam al-Shafi’i said:

    “He who holds what the Muslim community (Jama’ah) holds shall be regarded as following the community, and he who holds differently shall be regarded as opposing the community he was ordered to follow. So the error comes from separation; but in the community as a whole there is no error concerning the meaning of the Qur’an, the Sunnah, and analogy (qiyas).”

    http://masud.co.uk/who-are-the-ahl-a...ah-wal-jamaah/


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