lately i have noticed that people want an scientific explanation for everything that concerns the religion. for example: you walk up to a brother and tell him that reading the quran is very important. he then answers by asking me: "what are the benefits of reading quran?"
then inorder to convice him convince him i have to tell him, that it improves your memory and so....here doesn't he know that he will please allah ?, isn't that enough of a reason ? ( this is just an example but if you look carefully you will see that it happens quite often)
have we become so secular that we don't do it to please allah but to gain the benefits that are scientificly proven ? if this is not the case then we wouldn't start asking for the benefits but for prove to assure that its the truth so that we can bring it into our lives.
i am not saying that you can't ask for the benifits but merely wondering why we ask for for the benefit before asking that its the truth.
they say, "We hear and we obey": it is such as these that will attain felicity. 024.051
if you have any other ideas to suggest why we do that don't be shy to tell us. :0
SubhanAllah that's true. To please Allah is a good enough reason. We can read the Qur'an solely to please Allah. Also, if not even that, then reading the Qur'an is a good deed that will benefit us in the hereafter. It adds to our knowledge and wisdom and puts our hearts at rest. Another good deed to add to the scale. That's how it will ultimately benefit us. The same is with almost any good deed, for example, namaz, fasting e.t.c. We should be stronger than to let Shaitaan corrupt us, no?
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
We should be stronger than to let Shaitaan corrupt us, no?
that is very true brother, but to avoid you have to know what the shaitaan is doing first. i heard that there are so many books written about how the shaitaan corrupts people/nations. if anyone know please post. i really would to know that.
Mashallah this post is so clear and stright to the point. Barakallahu feek..
doesn't he know that he will please allah ?, isn't that enough of a reason ?
that bit there is very true, are we not sincere? Subhanallah....why cant we JUST DO IT to seek Allah pleasure? I once heard a Shiek saying that we Should hope that Allah is pleased with us instead of Hoping Jannah first....if you think about it it has a deep meaning behind it.
Deep at night, I had this dialogue with Satan. Shortly, I heard the Fajr prayer call. I wanted to go to the mosque.
He said: “The night is still long, so take a nap.” I said: “I’m afraid I’ll miss my obligatory prayer!” He said: “There is much time to go ” I said: “I’m afraid I’ll miss praying in congregation.” He said: “Don’t be too harsh on yourself in worship.” Then, I didn’t wake up until the sun had already risen.
He whispered to me again saying: “Don’t feel sorry for what you have missed. The day is still full of many other chances.”
As soon as I started mentioning Allah, he brought to my mind all kinds of thoughts. I said: “You are diverting me from making Duaa’.” He said: “Just delay it until the night.” Shortly, I intended to repent. He said: “Enjoy your young age before it comes to an end”! I said: “I’m too afraid of death.” He said: “But your life will not end now.”
I started to memorize Qor’an He said: “Entertain yourself with songs.” I said: “But it’s an unlawful thing to do.” He said: “Scholars differed on that matter I said: “The evidences from the Prophet’s sayings (peace be upon him) are with me” He said: “But you know their sources are weak!”
A beautiful lady passed by, so I lowered my gaze. He said: “What’s wrong? It’s just a gaze”! I said: “A gaze puts me in a dangerous place.” He said: “It’s lawful to contemplate in grace.”
I went to the Kaaba (The Ancient House of Allah). There he was with me on the way. He said: “What’s the reason behind this trip?” I said: “To make ‘Umrah’.” He said: “You have risked dangers (on your travel) to do this Umra. Don’t you know that good deeds have plenty of other doors?!!” I said: “But my life needs a change for the better” He said: “Don’t you know that you can’t enter Paradise through your deeds?
I went to give advice to people. He said: ”Don’t put yourself in an embaressing situation. I said: “But, my only aim is to benefit others.” He said: “That’s a trap of self-admiration, and it is indeed the head of corruption.” I said: “Tell me your opinion about some people.” He said: “ I can answer you of the private, as well as the general.” I said: “Ahmed Ibn Hanbal?” He said: “His calling to follow Quraan and Sunnah was killing me.”
I said: “Ibn Taymeyah?” He said: “His words hit my head like a daily beating.” I said: “Al-Bukhari?” He said: “I can even burn my house with his book.” I said: “Al-Haggag?” He said: “I wish 1000 of men are like him. His way is cure and happiness to my colleagues of Satans.” I said: “Pharoah?” He said: “Oh, to him victory and support we owe.” I said: “Saladin, the Hero of the battle of “Hetteen”?” He said: “Let us not talk of him…he brought humiliation to my sons, and buried our heads in mud.” I said: “Mohamed Ibn Abdul Wahab?” He said: “His messages were like the heavenly fiery stars that were burning my heart” I said: “Abu Jahl?” He said: “The best kinship and brothers we are.” I said: “Abu Lahab?” He said: “We are together in every step forever.”
I said: “Lenin?” He said: “Bounded by me, with Stalin on fire.” I said: “Nude Magazines?” He said: “Are my holy books.” I said: “Satellites?” He said: “Make people diabolical.” I said: “Coffee Shops?” He said: “Welcome everyone who is diverted from Allah and the right way.” I said: “What is your duaa (athkaar)?” He said: “Songs.” I said: “What is your job?” He said: “ False Hopes.” I said: “What do you think about the Markets?” He said: “Clubs where my friends meet.”
I said: “What do you think of the Socialist party?” He said: “It is with which I have shared all my belongings, to whom I taught all my thoughts, intentions and prayers.” I said: “How do you misguide people?” He said: “By desires, doubts, distracting amusements, hopes and songs.” I said: “How do you misguide women?” He said: “I tempt them towards showing off their beauty, and favoring the prohibited over the lawful. I said: “How do you misguide the Scholars?” He said: “By paving the way for them to admiration and showing off, and by planting envy and pride in their hearts.”
I said: “How do you misguide people as general?” He said: “Through back-biting, tale-fabrication, wasting their times in things of no value and in useless cheap conversations.” I said: “How do you misguide merchants?” He said: “By tempting them to deal with bribery, making them hate paying charity and by making spendthriftness beloved.” I said: “How do you misguide young people?” He said: “By making them fall in the trap of love, reckless in following Allah’s orders and committing the prohibited.”
I said: “What do you think of “Israel”, the Jewish state?” He said: “Oh, don’t try to backbite and speak ill of my beloved home country, the most dear to my heart.” I said: “What do you think of Abu Nawwas?” He said: “Such a respectful character. His poems really inspired me.” I said: “And “modernity”?” He said: “The inheritors of our satanic knowledge.” I said: “Secularity?” He said: “That’s my belief, and its believers are the cheating magicians and creators of false hopes. We all bear same names.”
I said: “What do you think of Washington?” He said: “The state of my beloved ones and the base for my army. Indeed it is my nation.” I said: “What do you think of those people who call to the word of Allah?” He said: “They are torturing me! They inflict a lot of pain and misery on me. They made me an old man with gray hair! They destroy all what I build! They make noise when I speak, read when I sing, and seek refuge from me when I show up.” I said: “What do you say about newspapers?” He said: “Means for wasting people’s time, especially that of the elite, and means for stealing money.”
I said: “What do you think of the BBC?” He said: “It’s my weapon. Through it I put the poison in the honey, ignite wars between Arabs & the other nations and flatter both the oppressor and oppressed.” I said: “What did you do with the Crow?” He said: “I made him kill his brother and bury him under earth till he disappeared.” I said: “What did you do with Karoon?” He said: “I whispered to him: You son of the old man. Save the treasuries to win. You are one of the greatest men.” I said: “What did you say to Pharoah?” He said: “I told him: You are the greatest one in the palace. To win say: “Isn’t it me who possess the power over Egypt?”.”
I said: “What did you say to the one who drinks wine?” He said: “I told him you should drink this grape’s juice. It is the answer to all your problems. It wipes out your troubles. And don’t worry, you know the way to repentance and its doors are always opened for you.” I said: “What kills you?” He said: “Reading the verses of “Al Kursy” (the Chair). It prevents me from breathing and makes me feel I’m in an eternal prison, in a night full of misery.” I said: “Who are the most beloved people to you?” He said: “Singers, poets that aim at misguiding people, sins doers, and every cunning person who goes astray.” I said: “Who is the most hateful person to you?” He said: “Mosque-goers, everyone who kneels and prostrates to Allah, every pious and sincere worshipper, and every fighter in the cause of Allah.” I said: “I hereby seek refuge in Allah from you.” The moment I said so, he disappeared as though melting into the sand - and this is the liar’s end.
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
So Glorified is He and Exalted above all that they associate with Him, and in Whose Hands is the dominion of all things, and to Him you shall be returned.
(Sura Ya-Seen 36:83)
lately i have noticed that people want an scientific explanation for everything that concerns the religion. for example: you walk up to a brother and tell him that reading the quran is very important. he then answers by asking me: "what are the benefits of reading quran?"
then inorder to convice him convince him i have to tell him, that it improves your memory and so....here doesn't he know that he will please allah ?, isn't that enough of a reason ? ( this is just an example but if you look carefully you will see that it happens quite often)
have we become so secular that we don't do it to please allah but to gain the benefits that are scientificly proven ? if this is not the case then we wouldn't start asking for the benefits but for prove to assure that its the truth so that we can bring it into our lives.
i am not saying that you can't ask for the benifits but merely wondering why we ask for for the benefit before asking that its the truth.
they say, "We hear and we obey": it is such as these that will attain felicity. 024.051
if you have any other ideas to suggest why we do that don't be shy to tell us. :0
What you have stated now is a slight branch of a philosophical sect named empricisim. It states that nothing can be truly proven unless it is experienced and examined. This is one of the basis of scientifical justifications, the opposite of empiricism is rationalism.
If you think rationally, and work things out in your head, there is no need to prove things, this is how theology debates are structured through rational arguements. The key to, "we hear and we obey" is to think rationally.
Rationally, we should follow the scholars, Rationally, we should follow what Allah has said. If i think about it, reading Quran makes my soul feel better, so it makes sense to do it, because that is my duty as a muslim.
What you have stated now is a slight branch of a philosophical sect named empricisim. It states that nothing can be truly proven unless it is experienced and examined. This is one of the basis of scientifical justifications, the opposite of empiricism is rationalism.
Well you know ....when comparing a religion to philosophy in most cases they with both clash with one another...religion is based on Belief to believe in what u cannot see...there are some parts of religion in which u can use the "empiricism" method however if u take Imaan for instance this is something that will surly clash with the empiricism technique since Imaan is about believing without seeing....the only time Imaan will leave a believers heart is when the angle of death comes to u why because now u have SEEN...so therefore Imaan is no longer there.
If you think rationally, and work things out in your head, there is no need to prove things, this is how theology debates are structured through rational arguements. The key to, is to think rationally.
well I will have to disagree in this case since I believe the key to "we hear and we obey" is not to THINK rationally, in fact its not to think AT ALL Allah said HEAD AND OBEY...he didnt say think about it and if u like the then OBEY...so the key to "we hear and we obey"is just to SIMPLY HEAR and OBEY. Thats it....
Rationally, we should follow the scholars, Rationally, we should follow what Allah has said. If i think about it, reading Quran makes my soul feel better, so it makes sense to do it, because that is my duty as a muslim. Just think. Thats it.
When it comes to following the horunable Scholars of Islam in this case we must not Follow Blindly...this is when we take out our thinking caps... and start to research as to why they gave this fatwa and where it says in the Quran and what hadith was there to back it up.The reason why Scholors give Hadith and Quran while giving the fatwa is so that people have the chance to go and see for them selves Imam Abu Hanifa said "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them.”*
...if they just said No its HARAM with out proof then there will be a problem. the only one that did that was the Nabi of Allah (sallahu 3alahe wasalam) he didnt have to provide proof why because we HEAR and OBEY...{Hafiz Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali (rahimahullah) says
"Therefore it is obligatory on anyone who hears of a command of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) or knows it, to explain it to the Ummah, advise them sincerely, and order them to follow his command, even if it contradicts the opinion of someone great. This is because the authority of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has the most right to be respected and followed}***
Also when doing acts of Ibadah our main reason for doing it is ONLY for the Sake of Allah and because Allah said DO IT.....WHY because Allah said SO....but ur following Blindily...yes because this is what it really means when u say I HEAR and OBEY......
(im not sure if I explained myself well but I think u can roughly get my idea)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Ibn 'Abdul Barr in Al-Intiqaa' fi Fadaa'il ath-Thalaathah al- A'immah al-Fuqahaa' (p. 145), Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam al- Mooqi'een (2/309), Ibn 'Aabideen in his Footnotes on Al-Bahr ar-Raa'iq (6/293) and in Rasm al-Mufti (pp. 29,32) & Sha'raani in Al-Meezaan (1/55) with the second narration. The last narration was collected by 'Abbaas ad-Dawri in At- Taareekh by Ibn Ma'een (6/77/1) with a saheeh sanad on the authority of Zafar, the student of Imaam Abu Haneefah. Similar narrations exist on the authority of Abu Haneefah's companions Zafar, Abu Yoosuf and 'Aafiyah ibn Yazeed; cf. Eeqaaz (p. 52). Ibn al-Qayyim firmly certified its authenticity on the authority of Abu Yoosuf in I'laam al-Mooqi'een (2/344). The addition to the second narration is referenced by the editor of Eeqaaz (p. 65) to Ibn 'Abdul Barr, Ibn al-Qayyim and others.
If this is what they say of someone who does not know their evidence, what would be their response to one who knows that the evidence contradicts their saying, but still gives verdicts opposed to the evidence?! Therefore, reflect on this saying, for it alone is enough to smash blind following of opinion; that is why one of the muqallid shaikhs, when I criticised his giving a verdict using Abu Haneefah's words without knowing the evidence, refused to believe that it was a saying of Abu Haneefah!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
***Even against their fathers and learned men, as Tahaawi in Sharh Ma'aani al-Aathaar (1/372) & Abu Ya'laa in his Musnad (3/1317) have related, with an isnaad of trustworthy men, from Saalim ibn 'Abdullaah ibn 'Umar, who said:
"I was sitting with Ibn 'Umar (radi Allaahu 'anhu) in the mosque once, when a man from the people of Syria came to him and asked him about continuing the 'Umrah onto the Hajj (known as Hajj Tamattu'). Ibn 'Umar replied, 'It is a good and beautiful thing.' The man said, 'But your father (i.e. 'Umar ibn al-Khattaab) used to forbid it!' So he said, 'Woe to you! If my father used to forbid something which the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) practised and commanded, would you accept my father's view, or the order of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) ?' He replied, 'The order of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam).' He said, 'So go away from me.' Ahmad (no. 5700) related similarly, as did Tirmidhi (2/82) and declared it saheeh.
Hafiz Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali (rahimahullah) says
"Therefore it is obligatory on anyone who hears of a command of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) or knows it, to explain it to the Ummah, advise them sincerely, and order them to follow his command, even if it contradicts the opinion of someone great. This is because the authority of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) has the most right to be respected and followed
Well you know ....when comparing a religion to philosophy in most cases they with both clash with one another...religion is based on Belief to believe in what u cannot see...there are some parts of religion in which u can use the "empiricism" method however if u take Imaan for instance this is something that will surly clash with the empiricism technique since Imaan is about believing without seeing....the only time Imaan will leave a believers heart is when the angle of death comes to u why because now u have SEEN...so therefore Imaan is no longer there.
I was just simply stating what Celestial posted initially, people tend to trust something more if its "scientifically proven" i didnt say you have to apply empiricism in all aspects of islam. I was simply defining something.
well I will have to disagree in this case since I believe the key to "we hear and we obey" is not to THINK rationally, in fact its not to think AT ALL
Well thats your opinion, i personally feel that us humans have to have a reason for doing something otherwise we wouldnt do it. Every human action has a motive behind it. I believe "we hear and obey" is simply an acknowledgement of our faith in islam. Faith comes from realising rationally that we have to submit because Allah has said so.
I dont have the energy to go through psychological examples though.
When it comes to following the horunable Scholars of Islam in this case we must not Follow Blindly...this is when we take out our thinking caps... and start to research as to why they gave this fatwa and where it says in the Quran and what hadith was there to back it up.The reason why Scholors give Hadith and Quran while giving the fatwa is so that people have the chance to go and see for them selves Imam Abu Hanifa said "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them.”*
...if they just said No its HARAM with out proof then there will be a problem. the only one that did that was the Nabi of Allah (sallahu 3alahe wasalam) he didnt have to provide proof why because we HEAR and OBEY..
We follow the scholars fatwas because we think rationally. Quite simple logic really.
i believe that both of you are saying the same thing from slightly a different angle. we all agree that people nowdays have adapted these empericism ideologies. here is were you two disagree, brother lateralus63 is saying that what ever you do you do it for a reason whether its to please allah or to gain peoples attention. now sister 3washey is basically saying that you just do it because it has been clearly stated in authentic source that's inrefutable.
however, inorder for you to follow you must have the believe first. therefore i think that you cannot just follow without having somesort of a reason. that's where brother lateralus63 comes in because that's exactly what he is trying to explain to you (i think) and i agree with him on that point.
When it comes to following the horunable Scholars of Islam in this case we must not Follow Blindly...this is when we take out our thinking caps... and start to research as to why they gave this fatwa and where it says in the Quran and what hadith was there to back it up.The reason why Scholors give Hadith and Quran while giving the fatwa is so that people have the chance to go and see for them selves Imam Abu Hanifa said "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them.”*
i totally agree
We follow the scholars fatwas because we think rationally. Quite simple logic really.
very true brother but isn't that what she is suggesting rational?
yes i understand sis 3waeshys point if you look at the quran and examine those who claim to have used their own 'aql (understanding) when it came to Allahs matters then they were indeed the folish ones. a quick example is death the disbelievers say:
What! when we are dead and have become dust? That is afar (from probable) return.
We know indeed what the earth diminishes of them, and with Us is a writing that preserves.
hence pointing towards them using their own understanding of death and its issues, however Allah clearly says in the next ayah:
Nay, they rejected the truth when it came to them, so they are (now) in a state of confusion.
Also the ayah that is stated "we hear and obey" if you look closley at other places in the Quran you will find a key ayah.
And when We made a covenant with you and raised the mountain over you: Take hold of what We have given you with firmness and be obedient. They said: We hear and disobey. And they were made to imbibe (the love of) the calf into their hearts on account of their unbelief Say: Evil is that which your belief bids you if you are believers.
And its these people (jews) that Allah has described in surah A'raf (just to take one of the many ayahs)
Therefore when they revoltingly persisted in what they had been forbidden, We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.
that's where brother lateralus63 comes in because that's exactly what he is trying to explain to you (i think)
Yes thats exactly right
very true brother but isn't that what she is suggesting rational?
Quite precisely yes, which proves the point further, belief and obedience dont pop out because they are written, but because we believe its rational to do so.
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To please Allah is a good enough reason. We can read the Qur'an solely to please Allah. Also, if not even that, then reading the Qur'an is a good deed that will benefit us in the hereafter. It adds to our knowledge and wisdom and puts our hearts at rest. Another good deed to add to the scale. That's how it will ultimately benefit us. The same is with almost any good deed, for example, namaz, fasting e.t.c. We should be stronger than to let Shaitaan corrupt us, no?
pleasure? I once heard a Shiek saying that we Should hope that Allah
. very interesting post... may allah be pleased with all of you !
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