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Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

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    Abu Zakariya's Avatar Full Member
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    Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

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    I heard that if you leave islam more than 4 times, then you can't become a muslim again.

    I've neglected prayer and then started praying again, more than 4 times, knowing that it takes you out of the fold of islam (I know there is ikhtilaf, but I thought of myself as a kaafir, so I could "start all over again" so to speak). Is my repentance, coming back to islam, not accepted? Anyone know if this is true? Please help me.
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    kadafi's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times



    Firstly, I have never heard of this ruling, akhee. However, if you openly declared that you left the fold of Islaam under no compulsion and you were residin' in a legal Islaamic state, then the capital punishment will be performed.

    If you concealed it, and repented to Allaah (Exalted is He), and returned to the path and Allaah forgave you, then no punishment will be carried out.

    If this applies to living in country other than a Islaamic state, then I simply do not know.

    Perhaps someone who does can clarify it.

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    Abu Zakariya's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

    As-salaamu 'alaykum

    I live in a european country where muslims are a minority.

    I never told anyone, I still believed islam to be the truth, I was just lazy and thought to myself: I'll just start all over again by doing my prayers etc. thinking of myself as a kaafir so I could start from scratch.
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    kadafi's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Zakariya
    As-salaamu 'alaykum

    I live in a european country where muslims are a minority.

    I never told anyone, I still believed islam to be the truth, I was just lazy and thought to myself: I'll just start all over again by doing my prayers etc. thinking of myself as a kaafir so I could start from scratch.


    As I stated earlier, I do not know the ruling about leavin' Islam 4 times that will bar you from enterin' it again.

    Rather, I would turn in repetance and praise my Lord for guiding me to the Truth again, because I used to be in the same situation as you.

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    Bittersteel's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

    i missed my Jumma prayer today because I stayed awak all night long browsing the net and during morning and after noon I slept without realizing ofcourse.
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    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times


    Neglecting one's prayers out of laziness does not render one a kaafir. It simply means that such a person is lacking in their emaan. It is only the khawaarij (deviated sect) that believes that sins take one out of the fold of Islam.

    Also, I believe this "four strikes and you're out" rule has no basis in Islam, as Allah swt will continue to forgive so long as we make sincere repentence.

    Indeed, He is the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
    Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    kadafi's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

    Neglecting one's prayers out of laziness does not render one a kaafir. It simply means that such a person is lacking in their emaan. It is only the khawaarij (deviated sect) that believes that sins take one out of the fold of Islam.
    akhee

    I do not know about that bro,

    The opinion that one who does not pray is not kaafir is the view from Abu Haneefah, Maalik, and al-Shaafa'i, and is indicated by the hadeeth of ‘Ubaadah ibn al-Saamit, who reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are five prayers which Allaah has prescribed for His slave during the day and night, whoever does them and does not wilfully neglect them, Allaah will be bound to grant him admittance to Paradise. Whoever does not do them will have no such guarantee; if He wills, He will punish him and if He wills, He will grant him admittance to Paradise.” (Reported by al-Daarimi, 1531; Maalik, al-Muwatta’, 248; Ahmad, 21690).

    The opinion that the one who does not pray is a kaafir is the opinion narrated from ‘Umar, ‘Ali and Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with them). It was also the opinion of al-Hasan, al-Sha’bi, al-Oozaa’i, Ibn al-Mubaarak and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan; it was also reported from Ahmad, and is indicated by the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him),

    “All that stands between a person and kufr is his not praying.” (Reported by Muslim, Ahmad, Abu Dawood and Ibn Maajah).
    The evidence lies more in the first opinion. The first evidence is the ayaah:
    “But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism], perform As-Salaat (Iqaamat-as-Salaat) and give Zakaat, then they are your brethren in religion.” [al-Tawbah 9:11]
    In Risaalah fi Hukm Taarik al-Salaah (Paper on the ruling on one who neglects the prayer), Shaykh Uthaymeen writes:
    The evidence derived from this aayah is that Allaah defined three things that the Mushrikeen have to do in order to eliminate the differences between them us: they should repent from shirk, they should perform prayer, and they should pay zakaah. If they repent from shirk but they do not perform the prayer or pay zakaah, then they are not our brethren in faith; if they perform the prayer but do not pay zakaah, then they are not our brethren in faith. Brotherhood in religion cannot be effaced except when a person goes out of the religion completely; it cannot be effaced by fisq (immoral conduct) or lesser types of kufr.

    Allaah also says (interpretation of the meaning):
    “Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salaat (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salaat (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell. Except those who repent and believe (in the Oneness of Allaah and His Messenger Muhammad), and work righteousness. Such will enter Paradise and they will not be wronged in aught.” [Maryam 19:59-60]
    The evidence derived from this aayah is that Allaah referred to those who neglect the prayer and follow their desires, Except those who repent and believe, which indicates that at the time when they are neglecting their prayers and following their desires, they are not believers.

    The evidence of the Sunnah that proves that the one who neglects the prayer is a kaafir includes the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):
    “Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his neglect of the prayer.” (Narrated by Muslim in Kitaab al-Eemaan from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)).
    It was narrated that Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The covenant that distinguishes between us and them is the prayer, and whoever neglects it has disbelieved (become a kaafir).’” (It was narrated by Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaa’i and Ibn Maajah).
    What is meant here by kufr or disbelief is the kind of kufr which puts a person beyond the pale of Islam, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made prayer the dividing line between the believers and the disbelievers. It is known that the community of kufr is not the same as the community of Islam, so whoever does not fulfil this covenant must be one of the kaafireen (disbelievers).

    There is also the hadeeth of ‘Awf ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him), according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
    “The best of your leaders are those whom you love and who love you, who pray for you and you pray for them. The worst of your leaders are those whom you hate and who hate you, and you send curses on them and they send curses on you.” He was asked, “O Messenger of Allaah, should we not fight them by the sword?” He said, “Not as long as they are establishing prayer amongst you.”

    More info at islamqa
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

    br. Kadafi,
    format_quote Originally Posted by kadafi
    The opinion that one who does not pray is not kaafir is the view from Abu Haneefah, Maalik, and al-Shaafa'i,
    I'm assuming that the word "not" isn't supposed to be there?
    Just to clarify.

    JazakAllah khayr for your excellent post; there does seem to be some difference of opinion from the scholars on this issue if I understand it correctly.

    Ibn al-Qayyim (rahimahullaah) said:
    "And this distinction is the saying of the Sahaabah who were the most knowledgeable of the Ummah about Allaah’s Book and about Islaam and Kufr and their essentials - and these matters are not to be taken except from them. Whereas the later people did not understand the meaning of this and so split into two groups: A group who expel people from the Deen due to commission of major sins and judge them to be eternally in the Hellfire, and a group who declare them to be Believers having complete and perfect Eemaan. So one has gone to one extreme and the other to the other extreme. And Allaah guided Ahlus-Sunnah to the correct saying and the middle way - which is amongst all its sayings just as Islaam is amongst all the religions. So what we have here is Kufr less than Kufr, and Nifaaq less than Nifaaq, and Shirk less than Shirk, and Fusooq less that Fusooq, and Dhulm less than Dhulm."
    (Kitaabus-Salaah (p26))

    Shaikh Al-Albaanee says :
    "As is known the scholars disagree about the one who abandons Prayer whilst believing in its being prescribed - so the majority hold that he does not become a Kaafir because of that but a Faasiq, and Ahmad holds that such a one is a Kaafir and is killed because of apostacy - not as a prescribed punishment. And it is established from the Companions that they had not used to regard the abandonment of anything as Kufr - except for Prayer - which is reported by at-Tirmidhee and al-Haakim - and I hold that the saying of the majority is correct and that what is reported from the Companions is not a clear statement that what they meant by `Kufr’ was the Kufr which causes a person to remain forever in the Fire and whom Allaah will not forgive and how can that be when Hudhaifah ibn al-Yamaan - one of the foremost of those Companions - replied to Silah ibn Zafr who was about to understand the matter in the same way as Ahmad, so he said : "`Laa ilaaha illallaah’ will not benefit them if they do not know what is Prayer," so Hudhaifah replied after turning away from him : "O Silah it will save them from the Fire" three times. So this is a clear statement from Hudhaifah (radiallaahu anhu) that the one who abandons Prayer - and likewise the other pillars of Islaam - is not a Kaafir, rather he is a Muslim who will be saved from remaining eternally in the Fire."

    Then he (rahimahullaah) quotes as-Sakhaawee, who after mentioning the ahaadeeth about the Kufr of one who abandons Prayer, who says :
    "But all of this is taken at face value with regard to one who abandons it whilst denying its obligation after having grown up amongst the Muslims - since in that case he will be a Kaafir and an apostate by ijmaa’ of the Muslims - so he either returns to Islaam or is killed - but as for the one who abandons it without valid excuse but out of laziness whilst still believing in its obligation then what is correct and clearly stated by the majority failing to pray a Prayer in its essential time - such as leaving Zuhr until the sun sets, or Maghrib until the sun rises - then his repentance is sought just as the repentance of the apostate is sought - then if he does not repent he is executed, then he is washed, prayed over and buried in a Muslim graveyard - and the rest of the rulings applicable to Muslims apply to him and application of the term `kufr’ to him is explained to be due to the fact that he shares with the Kaaafir in some rulings with regard to action, this explanation is in order to harmonize between these texts and the texts such as what is authentic from him (sallallaahu ‘alaihi wasallam) that he said : There are five Prayers which Allaah prescribed... if He wishes He punishes him and if He wishes He forgives him and he also said : He who dies knowing that none has the right to be worshipped but Allaah enters Paradise Therefore the Muslims have not ceased to give inheritance to and to inherit from those who abandon Prayer. And if he were a Kaafir then he would not be forgiven and would not inherit or be inherited from." (Al-Fataawaa al-Hadeethiyyah (2/84) from `Silsilatus-Saheehah’ (1/115-110) )

    More info here:
    http://salafipublications.com/sps/sp...rticlePages=10

    If you have more information/evidences, we could benefit from them inshaa'Allah.
    Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    kadafi's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times



    Excellent post akhee,

    I will try to research and analyze the evidence again.

    I'm assuming that the word "not" isn't supposed to be there?
    It is [not].

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    Abu Zakariya's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Apostasy and coming back to islam 4 times

    as-Salâmu 'alaykum

    I just remembered something. How about fasting? I haven't fasted either during these periods. Do I have to fast the days I missed?
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